Column of Honor: 01.19.08: Undeniable Excitement Part Two (Late Afternoon Edition)

Posted by Ari Berenstein on 01.19.2008

Tons of thoughts about ROH, WWE, The Royal Rumble, TNA running in NYC, Global Impact and more. Then a preview of 1/25/08 in Dayton with Hero in the cage and lots of reaction to my comments on ROH fans and Nigel McGuinness!

Welcome back everyone—now its time to get to the second half of the column.



Ring Toss
Part Two:
-Honorarium
-ROH Preview: 1/25/08 in Dayton, OH
-My Two Cents with Chris Miccio
-Name That Tune: Week 18
-Ringtones
-Independent Buy In: NOAH Special Budokan Double Edition
-ROH @ 411
-Honor Bound Links
-OUT


Honorarium

-While on the subject of Erick Stevens and his rise in Ring of Honor, let's not forget that he and Daniel Puder have started having issues. While Puder was busy getting himself entangled in Sweet & Sour Inc.'s war against Claudio Castagnoli this past weekend, Stevens vs. Puder shouldn't be lost in the shuffle. Despite my feelings about how the fans disregarded Stevens vs. Richards in order to harp on Puder, one thing that cannot be denied is that there was a real feeling of "heat" or intensity in the face off between both men. This is an interesting test for both--can they continue to bring that "big fight" feel to this match? Puder is fighting in MMA in early March, so let's hope he doesn't get hurt so that sometime before or after we can get this grudge match.

-Onto some WWE opinions and reaction. It needs to be repeated that Jeff Hardy's push these last few months has been incredibly effective and successful. It's funny but I had this feeling in the back of my mind that WWE could get this far with Hardy and that they actually would "go the distance" as far as a promotional push for him. This idea dawned on me when they rolled out the Jeff Hardy video with the Lostprophet's song "Rooftops" (which is an excellent song and that's saying something because I'm not their biggest fan). That video and the song together was a tremendous piece of promo work and it came kind of out of the blue--but man was it exciting and effective.

As far as I'm concerned, I completely buy into Hardy as a main event talent at this point in his career. He has the wins, decent promo work and most importantly he has been pushed by the WWE to look like a credible threat, and thus he has become a credible threat to the WWE title. It's pretty much that simple, even in 2008. Even better, Hardy's in ring work has matured yet still retains the high risk and daring style for use at the right moments.

I don't necessarily know if Hardy is going to win the WWE title at Royal Rumble, but it would be one of those "once in a lifetime" kind of moments, the kind you get at Madison Square Garden. I still think HHH is going to make his move (maybe even starting this week with Raw and his qualifier match) and end up in the main event for Wrestlemania 24. However, just because he gets there doesn't mean we can't do a one month title run for Hardy to capitalize on this awesome wave of momentum for Hardy. WWE can do the switch in January for the feelgood moment, then run the rematch with a stipulation at the No Way Out PPV and have Orton cheat his way back to regaining the belt. Have HHH either win the Rumble or if he still ends up not making it into the Rumble match, he could win the Elimination Chamber match, attain number one contender status and then win the match in Hardy's honor (since they're such close friends now). In this way, WWE can have its cake and eat it too as far as having memorable and captivating moments in this Rumble to Wrestlemania corridor.

-Royal Rumble 2008 is actually one of those few WWE Pay Per Views that actually seems capable of living up to the "worth the money" mantra of consumerism. It's hard to shell out 40 bones American for each PPV (and its 50 if you want it in brand spanking new HD), but on paper this card is definitely worth ordering. The strength of the match making is on display here, with very well matched title fights and good one on one grudge matches. There is definitely quality wrestling in such fights as Mysterio vs. Edge and Hardy vs. Orton. JBL vs. Chris Jericho has been very effective in my mind of quickly building up a grudge match and whether its a brawl or stays mainly in the ring that match should be intriguing. MVP and Ric Flair will have a match, but I expect something wacky so that Flair doesn't have to lose but MVP doesn't have to look bad. Then you have the Rumble itself, which is not as wide open as other years, but there is a certain unpredictability as far as who they will go with depending on whether or not HHH qualifies for the match. Barring too many non finishes, we may be looking at a possible PPV of the year right here and right now. I'm genuinely excited for a WWE PPV for the first time since Vengeance 2007.

-Kelly Kelly on this week's ECW...my god...just my god, man. Women should not be allowed to look that good...it's just not fair.

-Kofi Kingston is going to debut next week for ECW. I think some may underestimate just how marketable and how popular this character may become in a short amount of time. Jamaican pride is huge and this could be a very good platform to appeal to that group of fans.

-It was great to see CM Punk and Edge interact with each other at the beginning of ECW. However, don't forget that this isn't the first time these two have tangled with each other or the first time Punk appeared on the Cutting Edge show. Punk was the one after all, to call out Edge during the Money in the Bank multi man interview segment before Wrestlemania 23 and the match. I agreed when Edge said that Punk reminded him of a himself. There is an air of similarity about them in terms of physical appearance, but also Punk is a very promising prospect for stardom (on a larger scale) in the WWE in much the same way Edge was a promising young WWE Superstar in the late 90's. I also like that Punk displayed gumption to tell Edge that he could defeat him. Later on, if Punk gets moved over to Smackdown, we may see a bonafide feud on out hands and I think that these two would have no problems telling that tale.

-What is Fit Finlay's deal with Vince McMahon? My guess is that he convinced Vince to protect Hornswoggle by putting him in safe, winnable matches where he wouldn't get hurt. What he had to give up for that favor I have no idea, but its a good mystery (unlike the who killed Vince story)...you'd have to go back to Stone Cold Steve Austin to find someone who intimidated Vince quite like Finlay has these last few months. On the other hand, no one has ever "had something" over on Finlay in terms of a psychological or political advantage (dude just likes to fight, but what happens when his unlikely friendship with Hornswoggle changes his perspective?) and that would be an interesting aspect to follow up on in the coming weeks.

-Despite that effective storyline, Raw STILL and even now suffers from TMM-Too Much McMahon.

-TNA ran their "Global Impact" special this week and it was a very good program. I was initially disappointed to hear that they would only run the Angle / Nagata title fight and the rest would be documentary footage instead of other full matches. However, the documentary footage I feel actually added to the show and made it a very interesting viewing. Of course Angle and Nagata had a very good bout (not all time great but for so far this year it was up there) and most importantly THEY GAVE IT TIME. This should be a lesson to TNA that these quick matches with commercials in the middle of them are just no good and that if they actually ran less matches with longer times that it could be a more effective way of selling their in ring product. Again, it was a fine show and I wish their regular shows were more like this. In fact this was the first full TNA show I've seen in over a year and there was absolutely nothing I disliked about it. This makes it even more upsetting and disappointing to know that TNA iMPACT is regularly nothing like the "Global Impact" special.

-TNA is running in Manhattan at Webster Hall on February 21st, thus doubling up on their NY area appearances (they run Long Island the next day). Of course it is just two days before Ring of Honor runs its Sixth Anniversary Show in Manhattan. So to me that seals the deal, that TNA IS running an oppositional campaign against ROH this year.

Do I have a problem with this? In a way I do feel angry, but business is business after all and competition should be expected. It's a wonder that this kind of coat tailing didn't take place sooner.

Really I think TNA's major problem with running Webster Hall is that they only gave themselves three weeks to advertise the show. That is hardly a large amount of time for advance notice and that's going to impact their attendance. They should be advertising a NYC debut like it's the biggest thing in the history of our sport. I'd put good money that there will be relatively little advertisement done for it locally, or on television. The other thing is that I read they hope to get 1,000 people inside the show. I've been in Webster Hall and with the way the room is set up, to get the ring and entrance in there I say that's a laughable estimation. Even if you go Standing Room Only, maybe you can get 500 – 700 in there, maybe. Even that might be stretching it.

The big differences between TNA piggybacking off of ROH and ROH piggybacking off of WWE's Wrestlemania event are quite simply in the numbers. ROH piggybacks off of WWE ONE TIME per year, but now TNA is doing this on three occasions over two months. We're also dealing with the prospective number of fans to appeal to for purchase. ROH fans, lets not lie-there is no way ROH can compete with WWE as far as how many fans they will have attend shows, or even just a general product awareness. Wrestlemania will get upwards of 50-60,000 or more for Wrestlemania, while ROH may get 1,500-2,000. There is no real choice as far as who is going where. ROH just hopes that a couple hundred extra fans decide that since "we're making a weekend of it they might as well go to see MORE wrestling, so let's check out this ROH deal the day before and see if its as good as advertised." However, chances are that many people who know about TNA also know about ROH, and that means there is going to be a real choice to be made as far as who goes where.


ROH Preview: 01/25/08 in Dayton, OH

Montgomery County Fairgrounds
1043 S. Main St, Dayton, Ohio, 45409
8:00pm belltime

ROH World Title Steel Cage Match
Nigel McGuinness (if still champion) defends vs. Chris Hero

Will a Hero rise to the challenge? This is the biggest opportunity yet for Chris hero to become ROH World champion. Hero and Sweeney have been talking the talk for ages now, but can they walk the walk when it counts? There is no doubt about it that Hero has the advantages in this one. While the steel cage environment will limit the ability of Sweet & Sour Incorporated to be "hand on" in their approach to the match, the steel cage environment actually works against the champion. Nigel McGuinness needs space to hit the Jawbreaker and with the cage surrounding the ropes he won't be able to gain the proper speed and momentum to hit the move. Nigel is going to have to fight close to the body of Hero, but that is where the man from Metropolis works best.. Hero can use his holds and ground game to weaken McGuinness, including the Cravate. Nigel will look to employ his European style, maybe throw in a little Johnny Saint action but again, with limited space there isn't as much he can do to effectively pursue that line of offense.

Nigel's health is said to be 100 percent or close to it, but who can believe that when the past few months have been so troublesome for the champion? There are still many questions about his injuries. Has the bicep rehab taken? Is the concussion he sustained back at the Rising Above tapings going to affect him any? Nigel is clearly going to need to prove himself in this one. It should be a motivational challenge for the champion and should give him the focus and determination he needs to get the job done.

FIP World Heavyweight Title Match
Davey Richards vs. Erick Stevens

One day before winning the FIP title, Stevens was pretty much dominated in a loss to Davey Richards, the same man responsible for taking Stevens out with an arm injury. Has winning the FIP title suddenly given Stevens the maturity and confidence needed to get the win here? Stevens is determined and won't go down without a fight. Meanwhile Richards is looking to string together some wins and continue to make a push for greater glory as a part of the No Remorse Corps. Hurting Stevens again would be icing on the cake.

First Time Ever
Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. Jack Evans & Ruckus

The Briscoes are going to need some wins if they want to get back into title contention. The Vulture Squad has been surging as of late with some much needed wins against other factions in both tag and singles action. Evans is coming off a huge win against the Necro Butcher as well as gaining the winning fall over The Age of The Fall in Edison. In fact it was Evans & Ruckus doing The Briscoes the favor of taking over for them and battling AotF. Now these two teams fight each other and it should be another one of those fast paced and fiercely competitive matches. The winner of this one in my mind should immediately shoot up to number one contender status. We shall see.

Special Challenge Match
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black

On the surface this seems like a bit of a mismatch and one sided in favor of Bryan Danielson, but then you think back to Unscripted III and Jimmy Jacobs's win against Dragon. Tyler Black getting the upset here doesn't seem too inconceivable. I think that this is a huge test for Black to see if he can hang with some of the higher ups in the roster. Black has been in prelims and tag matches mostly, so this is a huge opportunity and if he does well, maybe some of those on the ROH message board who claim Black will be ROH World Champion may be onto something.

Age of The Fall vs. No Remorse Corps
Jimmy Jacobs & Necro Butcher with Lacey vs. Roderick Strong & Rocky Romero

The other members of AotF fight the heel unit of NRC in a sort of rematch from their Chaos at the Cow Palace show down. Its not that these guys hate each other for a personal reason—its just that both teams want to dominate ROH and they stand in the way of each other. Whichever team gains the victory here will take the lead in terms of being the "dominant" faction in ROH.

Stipulations To Be Announced
BJ Whitmer & Brent Albright vs. Delirious & El Generico

The hatred between Hangmen members and masked men comes to the fore here. Delirious is amped up in his new red outfit, with a more aggressive stance and sporting the dangerous red mist as an attack. Generico is always more of a threat than he seems because of his dogged determination to win and the power he has in his ole kicks and DDTs. Kevin Steen isn't listed on the card here, so if HM3 get Delirious or Generico in a compromising position and go for the masks again, who will be able to stop them?

Special Attraction Match
Austin Aries vs. Jigsaw

In one month, Aries has gone from challenging for the ROH World title to an attraction match. It seems to be frustrating him, but he remains intense and determined to shake off this losing streak and get back to the top of ROH. Jigsaw will make him break a sweat, but I'm thinking Aries can break through in this one and get back on the winning side of things.

Also signed: Claudio Castagnoli; Adam Pearce with Shane Hagadorn; Daizee Haze; Pelle Primeau plus more!!!


My Two Cents with Chris Miccio
So, as I was thinking about wrestling again this week, and I was fortunate enough to find some new things that bugged me, so without further ado, let's get to it.

1. The IWC's fascination with "Star Rating" of matches-- Now this is one of the longest standing things that's always bugged me about the modern wrestling fan. Why does everyone who owns a computer, has access to the internet, and the ability to get themselves on a message board or a blogspot account feel as if it's their natural right to create their own match "star score" for EVERY MATCH they watch? I understand that everyone has their right to their own opinion, and that modern technology allows us all to become our own little version of Dave Meltzer, but what's the obsession with giving everything a grade? I'm a teacher for god's sake, and the last thing I want to deal with is even more grading than I'm already required to. Sure, the ratings scale idea is nice, as it helps someone figure out what's good and what's not, but at the same time, if everyone is doing it, it just diminishes the importance of a good grade. Think about it like this. Every movie that's released in America gets reviewed, and even if its like the worst thing ever made, someone out there will give it a positive review (most likely because they have been paid to do so by the studio, but that's a totally different issue unto itself). Sure, that's what opinions are for, but even in that case, most people will go and look for the opinion of an "expert", if you know what I mean. Maybe you like Roger Ebert, Peter Travers, or even Harry Knowles, when it comes to film, and that's cool, but do you REALLY need to hear what Joe Schmoe has to say? At least those guys have had some connection with the film industry, and therefore, they are for the most part "authorities" on film. I feel that way with Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller when it comes to wrestling matches. Sure having many opinions to guide your watching of wrestling is great, but I really think you just have to take the information from where it comes. I've never found myself being a "star rater" of matches, as I'd rather just enjoy the show and take it for what it is, whether a good show, and okay performance, or a stinker. Moral of the Story---Leave the "star rating" system to the experts, kids, and just enjoy the show. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean that YOU have to do it too.

2. People complaining about wrestlers being "one move wonders" or "too predictable"-- I think this whole issue stems from the current debate over Nigel McGuinness and the use of the lariat in his matches. So, what I did with my little to no free time was sit down and think about all the great wrestlers that I grew up watching back in the day, and you know what I found? All the great, whether Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Steve Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan or even Tito Santana, they all made sure to get in their "signature moves" in all of their matches. This is what makes a wrestler who he is, the fact that they do have these trademark moves. It creates a situation where the fans have a good idea as to what to expect when they watch a match featuring their favorite workers, and allows the fan to be able to follow the flow of the match. These moves become like "yard markers" along the way, if you know what I mean. Sure, Nigel uses the lariat numerous times in his matches, but Ric Flair used a lot of chops, Dusty used a lot of elbows, Hogan used a ton of punches, and so forth and so on. A good wrestler knows that he (or she) has to come up with a handful of solid moves that they can use all the time to differentiate themselves from the next guy, and this fact is as old as the business itself, so lay off Nigel and his lariats. Besides, there is NO WAY that you can tell me that they don't look GREAT. Moral of the Story--- If you want to watch matches where the wrestlers pull out all new moves, all the time, I suggest you turn on your video game system of choice and put in a wrestling game like Smackdown or Fire Pro Wrestling, because in the REAL WORLD, no one has far more than 20-30 moves in their bag of tricks.

Well, that's just my two cents on that. If you liked what I had to say or not, feel free to let me know what you think. Email me at [e-mail]. Have a great week, and I'll catch you next time.


Going Home

Name That Tune Week 18

Since I'm back after a week off we're going to get right back into the game. You didn't have to fall very far to pick up on this clue from two weeks ago:

Clue: bleeding
Lyric: "With beauty gone, Move right to wrong, From warmth to chill"
What's the name of the song and the artist?

Of course this song is non other that "Kiss2Kill" as performed by one half of the new ROH World Tag Team Champions Jimmy Jacobs!

This week's winners (by order of receipt):

soulpower: its much better than the rape music (or whatever its supposed to be) he currently has in the AoTF. Amen to that. A root canal would be better than that screaming mimi theme.
premiumblandrew
Mitchell Rose
You_think_you_know_me

Thanks to those who wrote in to answer. Let's rev it on up for a new Name that Tune! for this week, January 19th, 2007!

Clue: dragon
Lyric: "Everybody's walkin' but nobody's talkin' / It looks a lot better from here"
What's the name of the song and the artist?

Send in your answers here and if you're correct I'll list your name in next week's column!


Ringtones

I received a ton of feedback and comments regarding the special edition column that I wrote back on January 5th. I'd say 90 percent of it was positive and in agreement with what I wrote about the fan culture around ROH. Some said it was the best column I've ever written. I don't know about that, but I do know that what I said came from the heart and I am very passionate about this point. I believe its time for an active change in the fan response, not just in terms of Nigel but for all the wrestlers. Its time for a more positive vocal response from the crowd at live shows as opposed to sinking in the mire of smarky comments and negativity.

Here's what you all had to say:

John Maberry:

Ari ~ In the midst of all this douche-baggery, we've forgotten to really discuss how good the wrestling was this weekend. Unfortunately, for the first time ever, I think it's safe to say that the New York crowd truly killed an event, that being "Rising Above." Whereas the crowd put Joe vs. Kobashi and Danielson vs. Morishima I on the map due to their reactions, they were more or less counter productive this time around. Granted, "Rising Above" wasn't a blowaway event in the way that the last couple of PPVs have been, but the reactions were downright spoiled and lazy. "Final Battle," on the other hand, was spectacular, and I might even go so far to call it one of ROH's best events ever. Yes the crowd reactions for Nigel and the Age of the Fall were nonsensical, but fuck the crowd reactions. Sure I had to do some serious E. Honda/"Streetfighter: The Movie" zen shit and take myself out of my surroundings to block out the retard with the ponytail sitting behind me, but that kid can go to hell along with everyone else. Everything about that event, from the opener with Fish to the Richards/Marufuji classic to the brilliant booking of the Four Corner Survival, made it one of the most well-rounded shows ROH has ever produced.

In regards to the fans, I couldn't agree more. At one point, I felt I would have been verbally tarred and feathered for saying it, but now I'm starting to feel like it's true (and it's the internet, where everyone seems to have an opinion so to hell with it) - The fans of ROH will be the inevitable downfall of the company. I guess Ari I just don't understand fans anymore. They're only getting worse. It's been going on for some time too. I was so angry at a young-Taylor Hanson looking fan at Long Island this summer who could not stop chanting completely dumb things that I leaned over my friend and told this kid that he was a missed opportunity for abortion. So, what I'm saying is, I completely sympathize with your point of view. I wish there was something we could do as a collective fanbase where we could realize how stupid and hypocritical we look before it's too late. I mean, as Punk once said in a famous match, "the doors over there asshole." Seriously, if you're not there to be respectful to what's going on in the center of that ring, why are you even there? After this weekend, I seriously considered packing up my life and moving to Chicago, where retardation in the crowd seems to be more sparse, or even quit the live experience all together. But then again, I had to remind myself that I can't let a few bad bananas ruin bananas for me. It's just not worth it.

But I did feel bad enough about the promo incident to email Nigel personally and tell him that a bunch of idiots wouldn't let him forget he had his supporters who cared about his health and respected him as a performer. I wrote to him and told him these things because I felt the fans in NYC had crossed a line, as they reached a point in the sand where they made themselves look as though they didn't care about human life. I can even add a few more things to that list of idiocy that you penned on the Nigel-one move bullshit, like how come the fans are so Necro crazy when the man doesn't reeeeally wrestle, or how come fans don't get on Chris Hero's case more for doing stupid acrobatics during matches as opposed to wrestling. Sure Necro is "cool" since he's so badass and Hero's antics in the Four Corner Survival were hilarious, but then if the fans are cheering for all things stupid or flashy like fans of the E, then how the hell can you book to their liking? The mentality behind it makes no sense. The reason Christopher Daniels' promo was so good was because it was so true, every word of it.

I guess I should say thank you Ari, for standing up and speaking about something when it was absolutely necessary, and for not doing it backwards on the ledge of a balcony. I couldn't agree more.

I don't necessarily think the PPV was "killed", especially with the hot reactions to the scramble tag match, the title match and Danielson vs. Morishima while the match lasted. I think the quality of these matches will be enough for the PPV to be an easy recommendation. The heat and crowd response may appear uneven, but it is hardly the worst of things that could have happened, so I think ROH will be fine with it. Spoiled reactions? For sure. Lazy...I don't know if I can make that generalization about the whole show. Again, the whole thing was uneven. Sorry to hear that in your section things weren't quite up to snuff for the shows either. Although I can't complain about the people directly behind me during Rising Above, the Nigel Hater Nation was in the seating section directly to the left of us on the balcony...and as I wrote, they were quite the group. And at Final Battle we were next to some fine people, so no real complaints on that.

I think in a way there has always been this subsection of fans, or maybe "show attendeees" I should put it, that behave in this negative way. MOST of the time, the ROH fanbase has been able to create a positive environment, but occasionally the ratio of negative response to positive response goes in the favor of the brutes. That's why it's so critical for ROH fans to have fun, but also to keep a positive response going to the matches and the event itself. New York City has become ROH's premier event location, so it is natural for us to be the most demanding, but at the same time we can be critical without resorting to the ugliness that was on display at times during the last two shows. I expected better from my fellow New Yorkers, because they have delivered better in the past. Dating back to the New Yorker shows, those were some of the more positive crowds at the time. Demanding yes, and on the edge and intense, yes, but mostly very positive. I don't know whether it is the environment of the Grand Ballroom and the passing of time, but it seems at times that there is a definite change in the expectations of this audience.

I fear that the split reaction will not stop, because now this has become incorporated into storyline. I don't know if it will lead to a heel turn a lot of people seem to be predicting, but now that it has been picked up as a part of Nigel's title run, I think we will continue to see these sorts of reactions until there is some sort of resolution.


Mark Kohn:

Great article. The part I want to focus on is the anti-"This is Awesome" chant and the "You Fucked Up" chant. I remember in ECW the YFU chant becoming something you would hear often. Now, pro-wrestling is a very dangerous profession. Most of us would die or paralyze ourselves if we tried many of the things pro-wrestlers do on a nightly, weekly basis. If during a 10 - 60 minute match someone like Super Crazy (happened in ECW) or anyone else who springboards to the top rope might slip the last thing he needs to hear is You Fucked Up. Hell, say he did it successfully in his last 10 matches and for what ever reason he doesn't do it correctly now. Chanting YFU and very loudly I might add, might convince them to never try it again, that would be a real shame. If said wrestler in the grand scheme of things makes one flub in a match he or she deserves all the respect fans could give them. Is it being a smart fan to point out when a mistake was made or just being an asshole. Trust me the wrestler or wrestlers are well aware when something goes wrong, they do not need a segment of the crowd making sure to reinforce the point. Heel/Face aside, I think much like most of the japanese wrestling I see, there is a deference if you will to these athletes/entertainers by most of the fans.
This leads me to the anti-This is Awesome mentality. First, one caveat. I do not like when the chant is said within 5 minutes of a match. Realistically not enough can happen in 5 minutes to earn the chant. In the last year, I have heard Christopher Daniels, Team 3-D and the Briscoes rail against the TIA chant. I realize they were heels when they did this. I do not read the message boards and do not know all the arguments made against it, but to me I would much prefer what happened during the Dragon Gate Supercard of Honor match, where fans went I believe from "Holy Shit" to "TIA" to "Please Don't Stop." That to me was one of the greatest fan moments I have ever heard.
I know most wrestling companies prefer heel/face breakdowns. But both ROH and even TNA in the earlier X-Division matches really were just about putting on matches the fans would enjoy to watch no matter who won. Thus I believe, TNA fans started the TIA chant during some of the X matches and it got picked up in ROH and even abroad in ROH during Unified and Anarchy in the UK. Ironically enough for matches the Briscoes were in.
Going to a wrestling event should be a fun, enjoyable experience. If you do not like someone or it is obvious they are dogging it in the ring, BOO them. To me that is fine. But if it is obvious the people in the ring are busting their ass to entertain the fans and they happen to make a mistake, let it go. Trust me they will make you believe that This Is Awesome within the next few minutes.


I have always had a problem with the "You Fucked Up" chant and I agree with everything that you have written about it in this email. It's an unnecessary and cruel response, born out of a cynicism from awareness of the "choreographed" nature of wrestling. The problem is that as with any live performance, there is always a chance things will not be perfect. Actors performing plays forget their lines, newscasters reading off of a teleprompter sometimes get lost. Mistakes happen in life, but for sure there isn't a chorus of people chanting the YFU phrase when it happens. An audience seeing a play will forgive one or two bobbles in lines, and sure they will boo if something goes really wrong, but I doubt that they'd chant obscenities. PLUS, sometimes ad libbing is a great thing...it adds credence to he idea that the match is not preplanned and that in a fight, things won't be pretty, are not supposed to be pretty.

The 'This is Awesome" chant was indeed begun by the TNA audience during I believe the XXX vs. AMW six sides of steel match. It was an organic chant that just happened because the match really was awesome--these guys were pulling out such incredible moves that it was the only way to succinctly put how the crowd felt about the match. The moment you reference in the Dragon Gate six man was another organic moment that just happened because it was in the moment and that was what the majority of fans were thinking at that time. The problem comes with its overuse--when people try to jam the chant during moments where the majority of the crowd is not ready to chant it yet. The early This is Awesome chants, during the Joe vs. Kobashi and the Misawa vs. KENTA match, I believe was not directed at the action taking place in the ring at that exact moment, but rather the fact that the event itself was actually taking place live and in person. These were one of a kind matches and one of a kind moments for the ROH fanbase and I think in those cases such a chant would be easily understood and accepted.

In the end, I'd rather have an entire crowd chanting the "This Is Awesome" chant for a very good match instead of "You Fucked Up'' for two wrestlers who made the most minor of mistakes and don't need it being thrown back in their face. I don't scream "You Fucked Up!" to my students when they get something wrong in class, but I do shout out "awesome!" and other such wacky encouragements when I sense they're on the right track. I wish the ROH fans in attendance at shows would take on this thought process more often.


Michael Weyer:

First, not surprised there was such a hoopla of protest over the year-end awards which was a key reason I stayed out of the whole thing. I must admit to being surprised by many of the choices myself. I'm probably the biggest Cena defender at 411mania but still, Wrestler of the Year and Umaga MOTY? Ah, well, still a good choice considering. And those who complain about ROH being too slow or dull and not flashy enough just shows how dominant the "sports entertainment" aspect of wrestling has been ingrained for the last couple of decades.

As to your commentary on the fans, I'm glad to see your love of ROH does not blind you to some of the problems it may have. I think these fans (and I've seen it with TNA and several indies) are influenced by all the comments at how "ECW fans were part of the show" and think that applies to them as well (which, sadly, just encourages the "ROH is the new ECW" misconception people have). Thus they think they can pretty much do what they want, bring up those old chants and think it's cool and persume they can really influence things. It's annoying but it is a sad fact, especially among the "smarts." What these guys don't get is that they're just being worked then. It reminds me of the great comment Raven had about ECW fans, that "these are the easiest fans to fool because they think they know everything and what's coming." Thankfully, ROH seems able to resist the urge to give in to the cheap heat and switch heels and faces or programs, which puts them above other promotions.

Still, you will no doubt get that attitude a lot from folks who champion ROH a bit too much. Trust me, every time I write something bad on TNA, I hear from folks on how great TNA really is and it's miles above WWE, showing they haven't watched an Impact show lately. Still, a few bad apples among fans shouldn't be used to judge the whole ROH fanbase which is a key part to the promotion's success. I'm sure we'll see that a lot in the coming year.


I still can't really believe all the backlash for some of the choices made for the 411 YEA. It's so weird because I think in general we really got it right this year more than any of the past few years. So to hear the criticisms of ROH come out really pissed me off, and I was considering writing another column after the Nigel / ROH fans piece about the general ignorance and illogical responses made during the YEA special. Its amazing to think that ROH is still taking flack for being non stop "spot monkeys" with little to no psychology--even Bryan Danielson was getting hit with that label, which may be one of the most groundless comments I've ever read.

I have to agree with your comparison of ROH fans to ECW fans. i know ROH fans don't want to hear that comparison as far as in ring product of the companies but in many ways, the fans are indeed the 21st century version of ECW hardcore fans. We are demanding, we are hyper critical, we think we're smarter than we actually are and when something happens that we don't like, we do not hesitate to bitch about it. And some of us think we're a part of the show. From the hecklers to the super fans who show up on every DVD in the front row, believe me I know this is a negative aspect of ROH. I always try to be as positive as I can but these kinds of behaviors (and the ones I outlined in that piece) really do get to me... in a way because I relate to the wrestlers and see them often, I want them to succeed. So when they take heat like the criticism Nigel got, I get really mad. I know I shouldn't take it personal, but for some reason I do anyway. I guess I have to work on that one.

At least it makes for good column writing though.


Gohan6482:

I've always thought it funny how people brand some wrestlers one hit wonders, as if they're the only ones. If Nigel does too many lariats, how can they not point out how many Back breakers Strong does? How many flips and Springboards Evans does? As you mentioned, all the Cravate's Hero does. All the Uppercuts Claudio does. It's called building a character and a gimmick so the fans can get familiar with your moves and the situation/set up that they happen in. Then changing it up so it's unexpected but still true to what you originally did. I just see it as them trying to grab for something as a defense for why they blindly hate someone. Gotta love those ROHbots and how cool they think they are because they're rebelling against what most of the crowd likes. Ah well. I say if this all keeps up, we form them all in a line to get punched by Necro Butcher. Thanks for the column, as always.

Agreed and again here's thing: everyone in wrestling follows a certain formula. It's the given nature of the wrestling business. You use what works and you use it again and again. So I don't begrudge Claudio his Europeans or Strong his backbreakers and so on. Yes, let's get Necro on the case!


crawling79:

Sorry to hear your experience was ruined by other fans. I'm not well versed on ROH just yet but I know the wrestlers you were referring to and got the gist of it. I appreciate what you had to say but one area I disagree with is fans not responding to a match. I think that's really just a choice on their part and they're not required to neccessarily do anything. It's a passive thing.

What gets me though is when someone is aggressively annoying. For instance, let's say hypothetically than some 411 writer goes with his family go to a TNA event and acts like a total jackass for all to see. I'd lose all respect thereafter for anything else they had to say in their columns...

Its moreso the second example (the fans acting like a jackass) than the first (fan passivity) that really gets to me, but in the examples I gave the passive reactions from the fans were coupled by what was in my mind a double standard. if the fans for instance, just couldn't get into the Stevens and Richards match that's fine, but in many ways you could tell that the fans were willingly being cold to the match in favor of paying attention to something that was secondary AND most importantly something that some ROH fans would have no problem criticizing if it were to happen in other promotions (i.e. fans reacting to Puder on the stage instead of the match taking place). I agree though, fans shouldn't feel "forced" to respond to the match, as if its their job. The reaction should come naturally. Maybe some of the reactions were just unfortunately as a result of their placement in the show and the energy level of the crowd was at ebb...its hard to say except for on a case by case basis.

Now of course I don't want to over generalize or overstate; I've been to almost two dozen ROH shows by now and they are populated by many who just want to have a good time, watch a great show and support the product.


Padraic O'Connor:

I just read your In Defense of Nigel McGuinness article. Great stuff here. Really passionate writing. I was looking for a clip for you that I saw during the ROH vs CZW war of 2006 to send you, but couldn't find it. It was a bunch of CZW fans sitting in a basement saying why CZW's ultraviolent approach was better than "the handshake" style of ROH. They too were pretty passionate and were saying some pretty extreme things about ROH fans, ROH's roster, and Jim Cornette's wife. I can remember thinking to myself, "wow, it's really easy to talk shit to someone via YouTube. So these are the types of fans that go to CZW... not really missing much there I guess." The reason why I bring it up is because I can remember thinking how it's tough to defend and support a sport when you've got guys like this who get all the attention and create such a negative stereo type of for other fans. After this weekend, I am having trouble defending ROH as well.

I saw the promo on the website and thought I missed a big story line when I saw NYC chanting for Nigel to drop the belt. Then I realized that those guys who scrimped and saved their pennies to buy front row seats just to jeer Nigel and make it on the DVD are no better than the CZW fans who decided to chant "she's a big bitch" about Cornette's wife on YouTube.

When it comes down to it, not everyone's there for the show and just feel super tough on the other side of the barracade. Until they wise up, or someone from ROH loses their cool and smacks a fan, it's only going to start happening more. A month ago I would have said that ROH stands apart from every other indy promotion because the fans are into the sport of pro wrestling. After this weekends shows, I can safely say that we're no better than any other promotions fans. Maybe Gabe will give them what they want and BJ Whitmer will start putting people through light tubes and carrying a weedwhacker.

That CZW fans clip you mentioned sounds really hilarious...you know it just goes to show that EVERY type of wrestling fan, from those guys all the way to me or anyone else on the "IWC"...no matter how "smart" we think we are, we'll always be marks in one way or another. "Handshake style" is a very funny phrase, especially since ROH hasn't emphasized the code of honor in years and in some cases the brawls in ROH can get just as crazy and out of control as anywhere else.

I think that the general nature of wrestling fans these days has been that we're conditioned to react in favor of and then revolt against the wrestlers. It's a microcosm of an epidemic in society as far as how we treat celebrities--build them up just to knock ‘em down. I really wish we weren't that way, but that's the way it is and ROH fans have actually always been that way. As far back as I can remember there has always been someone on the message boards (and then via osmosis the live crowd) who is "the whipping boy"--from Trent Acid on down to John Walters to right now with Nigel McGuinness.

At times its really hard not to get upset by what goes on. Being to over two dozen shows I can tell you its not always that way and the majority of fans are still very much supportive of the product, but you are right in saying that ROH fans can no longer claim to being "better" than other wrestling fans. We are just like any fan out there in both positive and negative aspects.



Seaneb14:

So, after all the Nigel controversy and the huge COH Final column, I figured I'd write in about something different.

My last 2 cents on all of the fighting going on first. I think that with the last year being being the most turbulent year in ROH since the Feinstein incident there was bound to be some high tension among ROH fans. Little blame should be put on ROH officials themselves, save a few booking errors here and there, they did what they had to do with so much talent leaving and so many changes taking place. I know I've complained a lot about how ROH is handling PPVs, but at this point I have no better ideas, I just know that the current path their going on just doesn't work for me. With all that being said, I think once ROH gets back into its groove and Nigel finally settles down and gets into his groove as champion and as a wrestler (I much prefer Nigel from the pure title days, when every match had this new strategy to piss everyone in the building off, to the NOAH Nigel of today) ROH fans will begin to settle down and enjoy the product for what it is again. Also, I think Nigel needs to calm down on his in ring promos. The promos about how he fought all of his life for the title and how he doesn't want to give it up is fine, but to call out and bitch out every guy who boos him in the audience is too much. Get some thicker skin, dude.

But what I really wrote this email about was one man. LYGER! I just watched his match with CIMA from the 7/1/07 DG show, and I have to say that he hasn't impressed me that much in a long time. I think this year, maybe at the Wrestlemania weekend shows would be a nice time to bring Lyger back. I think he definitely needs one more match with Dragon in America. After all the changes that Dragon has made, I can't even imagine how great a match with Lyger would be now. Especially if Lyger came over as Dark Lyger. A clash of 2 of the best junior heels on the planet would be too good to be true. I think some ROH fans should get together and start asking for ROH officials to get Lyger to come to America just one more time. I know from Lyger's shoot that he's up for it, and Dragon deserves to get at least one win over Lyger in his home country.

See here's the thing about Nigel needing to have "thicker skin", CM Punk and Samoa Joe were notorious for calling out hecklers in the crowd and berating them. They almost ALWAYS received hero's ovations from the crowd for "ranking out" the offenders. Now, when Nigel cuts in on a crowd and ranks them out, he's perceived as someone who can't take the heat.

The ROH crowd has always needed someone to antagonize. There is always someone they really totally pimp out, someone who they jump on the bandwagon and then someone who needs to be the punching bag. They were this way for years. They've turned on Trent Acid, John Walters, Claudio Castagnoli and BJ Whitmer just to name a few. For some, Nigel is their current punching bag. They need someone to hate, and this set of circumstances gave them a perfect storm from which to hate on.

I think if Nigel can make it through his next defenses and defeats Danielson on the 23rd, things will settle down. However, another injury and its curtains as far as fan opinion on him and I think a turn is going to almost have to happen at that point.

Lyger is always a tremendous talent, a legend in the field. I would love to have him back in ROH anyday. Although it seems ROH is focusing its efforts on NOAH and Dragon Gate imports and shying away from New Japan guys. I think TNA may have exclusive rights to New Japan, but don't hold me to that. At any rate, Lyger would match up well with many of the upper card guys on the roster. Personally I'd love to see him matched up against Austin Aries for a fantastic juniors showdown.


**The Independent Buy In**

2008
**CHIKARA "Cibernetico & Robin" (Torneo Cibernetico: Kings of Wrestling vs. Dorado's Luchadores, The Olsen Twins / Cheech & Cloudy, Quackenbush / Donst, The Colony / BLK OUT ) High Recommendation
**CHIKARA "Brusied" (Kingston / Donst, Campeones de Parejas: F.I.S.T. vs. Incoherence / Castagnoli / Taylor, The Colony / Brodie Lee & Olsen Twins, Cheech & Cloudy / Osirian Portal ) High Recommendation

**Pro Wrestling NOAH "Special Budokan Double Shot"7/15 & 9/9/07 (Determination League Semi Finals & Finals, NTV Cup Finals) (NEW ADDITION) High Recommendation

Why you Should Buy In: This DVD collects the best of NOAH's July & September Budokan show, which are their major event tapings for each particular tour. The show combines the semi finals and finals of two tournaments—the NTV Cup which is a Juniors Tag tournament, and the Determination League, the winner of which would go on to fight GHC champion Mitsuharu Misawa.
Match of the Show: Akitoshi Saito vs. Naomichi Marufuji. The A Block finalsof the D-league series is a surprise find amid a number of the other big matches offered on this DVD. Saito and Marufuji have great chemistry here and the story of Saito bullying Marufuji around is both smart psychology and a lot of fun. Marufuji uses strategy and trickery to out duel Saito, finally pinning him with the Perfect Inside Cradle, the move he won the GHC title with.
Positives & Negatives: There is just a ton of high profile and quality matches on this DVD, including the other block final of Jun Akiyama vs. Takeshi Morishima. The finals between Marufuji and Morishima is short to sell the impact of wrestling two matches on one night, but still manages to pack a lot while it lasts. KENTA and Taiji Ishimori have quickly become my favorite team due to their fast paced work…they are featured in two different tag matches on the disc…unfortunately, the rematch from First Navigation '07 between The Briscoes against Suzuki & Marvin fails to live up to the high standards of the first match…it just feels like way too much stuff going on and the thrity minute draw is very telegraphed….also weird to hear Gabe and Cary do commentary on the 7/15 portion. They were there for the ROH Japan tour and so I guess they stepped in for commentary. Gabe does one match and does very well in selling the abilities of the American guys and using the NOAH all stars vs. ROH all stars match as preview of McGuinness vs. Morishima. Silkin, however, stays mostly silent and unfortunately doesn't contribute all that much to the action…which is a disappointment because it could have been a very cool opportunity to hear from him more in-depth. Commentary of the Us versions of the NOAH shows is usually a disappointment anyway, because as much as Wally Yamaguchi tries nobly to cover the action, it invariably ends up stilted, slowed down and resorting to cliché phrases like "what a big move by ____".

This section needs your help! If you want to recommend some good independent wrestling to your fellow internet readers out there, drop me a line for the column.


ROH @ 411

Buy Or Sell showdown this week deals with ROH, the students, Daniel Puder and much more.

Steve Cook looks at many different questions pertaining to ROH in this week's Ask 411 including Joe vs. Morishima.

Jarrod Westerfield gives the Viral Dose on 2008 in ROH, elitism in wrestling fandom and so much more.

J.D. Dunn gives us his review of ROH Caged Rage.

Larry Csonka gives you another look at the ROH Undeniable PPV. You can also check out the 411 Podcast with myself, Larry and Christi Csonka right here
.

Honor Bound Links

Sforcina brings Mankind up through the evolutionary scale in this week's Evolutionary Schematic.

Samuel Berman looks at Mike Quackenbush's run at Ted Petty 2007 and his match against Josh Ambercrombie in this week's Independent Mid Card.

Michael Weyer brings more incredible wrestling essays in this week's Shining A Spotlight looking at the IWC and the fanbase.

T.G.Corke has a rather humorous take on 411 as a wrestling promotion in this week's The Seventh Dimension: Fantasy Booking!

The dynamic duo of 411 in Sat and Uncle Trunx take on the ECW dream team of "Miz & Morrison" in this week's High Road / Low Road.

Bayani Domingo writes about DDP, Yoga and Regular Guys in this week's Truth B Told.

So ends my return week to the Column. Thanks everyone for reading and for sending in any and all comments. Next week I'll be back with Dayton results and the Chicago show previewed. I'll also have an announcement about the future of my Attack of the ROHbots podcast and a ton of Independent Buy In reviews. Later everyone!

BROOKLYN! BAH EM BAH SEE!
--Ari--