Thoughts From The Top Rope 01.29.08: Feelin' the Hate
Posted by Daniel Wilcox on 01.29.2008
Now that the Champ is back, it's time to address those pesky Cena-haters again. Almost as important, we have a brief review of Royal Rumble and an early look at a potential WrestleMania 24 card.
Sometimes, situations change in an instant without any forewarning or anticipation. These things can be for the worse (a natural disaster, or a death) and on occasion they can be for the better. One such instance where a dramatic change has improved a situation drastically is John Cena's return to WWE, and you had to know that that was coming.
No one saw this coming. If anyone tells you they knew that Cena would be the thirtieth entrant, they are lying. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for Big Show to walk through that famous Madison Square Garden entrance, but I can't tell you how ecstatic I was to see John Cena appear. It's ironic though, isn't it? As much as things change, and the way WrestleMania is shaping sure as hell changed last night, things always stay the same.
The Cena Haters are out in full force. Once they had gotten over the shock, the MSG crowd came unglued (they'd been dead all night) and it was clear that they were divided as the Haters and the Chain Gang collided in a war that echoed that of John Cena and Triple H, the two gladiators left brawling in the ring.
As the dust settled, it is now clear that John Cena will challenge Randy Orton for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania. And the Haters can't stand it. The question ‘why do fans hate John Cena so much?' has been asked countless times before. This rebellious decision on the part of some fans has been going on for two and a half years now. Many people have given their insight, thoughts and opinions as to why all the hate. Such reasons include things like "he's not the best wrestler," "he was forced on us too soon" and "his character is too nice."
But none of this is accurate. I have the answers. It's time to analysis the hate and work out why so many fans have turned on John Cena, who hasn't done squat to them. The answers may surprise you…
Also this week…
- Royal Rumble thoughts
- WrestleMania predictions
- Previewing an upcoming feature…
Thoughts From The Top Rope
The Greatest WrestleMania Under The Sun?
The entire complexion of WrestleMania changed for the better with John Cena's return on Sunday night and now what happens will be anyone's guess. Here's the card that I think is likely now we're just two months and one pay-per-view away from the big show.
WWE Championship: Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H
Well before last night, I had this as simply Cena vs. Orton but apparently that's not the way WWE rolls because Triple H has to be in the main event, which is a bit of a disappointment because Cena/Orton at Mania would have kicked ass. Now you have to believe that Triple H will win the Elimination Chamber at No Way Out and somehow both Orton and Cena go to Mania. Regardless, this has all the makings of another classic match-up and I'm already looking forward to it.
World Heavyweight Championship – Edge vs. CM Punk
Ever since May when Edge won the world title, people have been predicting Edge vs. Undertaker to be SmackDown's title match at Mania this year and until recently I agreed with them. But I have other plans for Taker as you'll see momentarily, and the fact is Punk needs some revenge on Edge or he looks like a complete joke, and we can't have that. Edge has cost Punk the ECW Championship and also beaten him down on a couple of occasions. This could be build as another underdog story but it's believable that Punk can be champion. The best thing here is Punk doesn't have to win but it raises his profile so much simply by being in the ring with Edge at WrestleMania.
Interpromotional Match – Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
Now here's a match that fans have been salivating over since Royal Rumble 2007. The two renewed their feud this year in the Rumble and Michaels got some revenge by tossing Taker. It looked as if the two would get physical again before Snitsky tried his luck with the Deadman and Shawn Michaels made his quick exit. WWE would be making a mistake if they didn't run with it because it would draw and neither guy has many years left. It's now or never. It's also pretty easy to set up after the events of this past Sunday and a potential cross-brand Elimination Chamber match at No Way Out.
Street Fight – Vince McMahon vs. Finlay
This was, until last night, going to be Triple H in Finlay's spot because that would have been a thousand times better. This match benefits no-one and probably won't be that good which is a shame.
Career-Threatening Match – Ric Flair vs. Mr. Kennedy
If you can't get a legend like Sting to come in and dance with Flair at ‘Mania, then this angle has to be used to put somebody over big time and this seems like the logical choice. They also teased the beginning of this feud at Royal Rumble I don't know how good or bad this match may be but either way, Mr. Kennedy would get a well-deserved rub from Naitch in this match. It seems that Flair will win at No Way Out, but I think they should continue this feud by having Kennedy seek revenge and go all bad ass on Flair's ass leading to a rematch at Mania.
ECW Championship – Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio
Where else is there for Rey to go? This is the next logical step and it will actually get people interested in the ECW Championship because with the way Chavo and Punk have been booked recently, no one could give a shit and that is a shame. This could also be one hell of a match, which Rey would likely win.
Batista vs. Big Show
I had nothing else for either guy to do, so this is it. With Show not redebuting at the Rumble it's a little harder to set this one up, but on the other hand you only have to have Show return to SmackDown and the feud is easy enough to get going. It won't be a technical classic by any means, but it'll be all kinds of fun and a great spectacle.
Women's Championship – Beth Phoenix vs. Maria vs. Mickie James vs. Candice Michelle
We are always guaranteed some women's action at Mania and this seems like a good way to go. The playboy diva of the year will always get the nod to promote the deal but Maria in playboy sells itself, so we don't need a one-on-one match that would be downright awful. Mickie James and Candice would make for two great additions to the match as both have a history with Phoenix. This would be very fresh as we very rarely get a multi-woman championship match.
United States Championship – MVP vs. Matt Hardy
This feud just has to have a chapter written at WrestleMania, even if it isn't the final one. The feud has been too good for these two men to be thrown into Money in the Bank and I even think that they should get some sort of gimmick, possible a cage match. Hardy is ready to return any day now and these two should renew their feud almost immediately. If given time, this could well be a show stealer.
Money in the Bank – Jeff Hardy vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Kane vs. John Morrison vs. The Miz vs. Chuck Palumbo vs. Shelton Benjamin
Simple enough stuff here, as these are the 6 guys who I think deserve a spot on the card and you can't really argue against any one of them. Chris Jericho and JBL will feud where Y2J wins in a gimmick match (I'm calling ‘I Quit' right now) and then both will qualify. Hardy will have nothing better to do now he's clearly been relegated to the number 3 (4? 5?) face on Raw. Kane always gets on the card. Then of course we have MITB veteran Shelton Benjamin. Miz and Morrison seem good fits for this match and giving them both in will be a good dynamic. Palumbo is there to make up the numbers. Any of the three Raw guys could potentially win this match and have a great run as Mr. Money in the Bank, but I think that role would fir JBL the most.
And there we have it. Not a bad card if I do say so myself. Every match (except maybe Show/'Tista) has tremendous potential and could all be show stealers.
Royal Rumble Thoughts
Going in, I really wasn't as excited about the card as most people. Both world title matches had potential to be great but neither of the other matches looked too great on paper for me. JBL is not the kind of opponent I would want working with Chris Jericho as Y2J is not a great brawler and it showed here, I think. He didn't bust out too many of his more exciting moves and the crowd wasn't into it. They blew a bulldog spot and the crowd began to turn on the match, but Jericho salvaged it. Jericho's blade job was very good and put him over as a guy who would go through anything to get his revenge. Y2J hanging JBL was also a tremendous visual but then they totally downplayed it by not having officials help JBL to the back. They even announced JBL as the winner and played his music as he left which made Jericho look like a complete joke as far as I'm concerned. I still have high hopes for this feud and I hope they can produce something more memorable at No Way Out.
The opening contest was what it was; nothing special. There was never any doubt who the winner would be and the crowd knew it too and were pretty much dead right from the get-go. Flair had one of his better performances and is actually looking in better shape than he has in years to be honest. What I did like is that they utilized the Figure 4 because it is likely going to need some credibility so Flair needs to start racking up submission victories. The match was decent for the time they got and MVP worked hard but Flair was pretty sluggish. Still, not a bad opener but the crowd really didn't appreciate a thing they were doing.
While I'm on the subject of the crowd, they were pretty terrible all night long, barely coming alive and always sat on their hands. Only John Cena got any real emotion out of them and even that wasn't what you'd expect in the circumstances. They didn't care for any of the big eliminations in the Rumble and booed the likes of Mysterio and Hardy purely because it's the cool thing to do. If I'm a higher-up in WWE, I'm marking which crowds suck and making sure the WWE go there less often so maybe they'll be more appreciative when they do.
Edge vs. Rey Mysterio was a really fun match from what I saw of it, though I must admit I was out of the room during large portions of the match. The pair have always had great chemistry and it really showed here. The best part of this was Edge getting the clean win and for the first time in several years, we have not one but two really strong heel champs going into the big show, which is tremendous.
The WWE Championship had a big-time feel to it but again, the crowd killed it for me. Terrible crowd. They did some nice work but Orton did not get in a lot of offence and the finish came out of nowhere. Knowing now that Cena would be coming back, there was never any way that Jeff would go over here but he could have at least got a couple of false finishes on Orton. Alas, one quick RKO and it's lights out. Decent match with poor booking and a bad crowd.
The Rumble match was pretty mediocre until the final few minutes. Taker and Michaels kicking us off was absolutely tremendous and a nice touch. I would have been happy had they eliminated everyone else until Cena came out. The ring quickly filled up and that's when it really went downhill. Too many people in the ring and you can't get shit done. It's a cluster of guys in the corner clubbering each other. That's not entertaining in the slightest. I also hated Finlay getting disqualified for something several wrestlers have done in past Rumble matches. All the big guys in the match kept the pace ridiculously slow and the crowd dead. Some of the spots such as the Piper/Snuka stand-off were amazing and really well done and were the most entertaining parts of the match. Of course, John Cena roll out at number thirty and the shit hits the fan. That was one of the coolest finishes I've seen to a Rumble match and I don't think I have ever marked out that much. John Cena owns your mother.
Ric Flair vs. MVP - **1/4
JBL vs. Chris Jericho - **1/2
Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
Randy Orton vs. Jeff Hardy - ***
Royal Rumble - ***3/4
Overall – 7.0
The Champ is Back: Let The Hate Begin
We fight together we ride together, right now we gonna get loud together. Chain Gang is the click
The Hate: John Cena only has his five moves of doom! He can't wrestle!
The Facts:
- Every wrestler has a collection of signature moves that they will utilize in most of their matches.
- Said moves help to get the wrestler over with the crowd. Cena is very over.
- John Cena has produced many high quality matches with a variety of opponents in many different matches.
- John Cena has a plethora of signature moves including; FU, STFU, Five Knuckle Shuffle, Spinout powerbomb, throwback, diving leg drop, splash, DDT, clothesline, diving shoulder tackle, victory roll, fisherman suplex, belly-to-belly suplex, sit-out hip toss.
- Cena has received praise from not only his fans, but his peers as a tremendous performer.
The Verdict: This is one of the most asinine arguments there is against John Cena. From Bret Hart to Shawn Michaels to Triple H to John Cena, everyone has signature moves that they work into a match. What measures how good these moves are is the response they garner from a crowd. Cena steps into the ring and gets the biggest response of the night. He has had countless great matches with the likes of Umaga, Shawn Michaels, Rob Van Dam, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Edge and Bobby Lashley. He is one of, if not the best, performers in the business right now.
With the mic in my hands I'm a bad man, even in the fight with my hands I'm a bad man, livin' in the streets all my life I'm a bad man!
The Hate: There's no way Cena can recover from a pec injury that quickly; steroids!
The Facts:
- First estimate on recovery time for Cena's injury was 4-6 months.
- Within two weeks of receiving the injury, doctors said Cena was weeks ahead of recovery schedule.
- Soon after, the new estimate was 6-12 months
- Cena has claimed to have never abused steroids
- WWE has regular drug testings within the company
- Cena returned 4 months after the injury occurred
- This coincides with the original expected recovery time
- Recovery time for any injury can often vary from person to person
- You know as many facts as I do and have no reason to believe Cena has used steroids to recover quicker
The Verdict: You got worked and you can't deal with it. Cena haters are looking for any excuse, any reason, to disrespect Cena and it's pathetic. You don't know the facts when it comes to Cena's recovery and your accusations are based on nothing. It's ridiculous that people are even making such claims. Get over yourselves.
You don't wanna fuck with us. You're bound to lose. Another one bites the dust!
The Hate: Cena has been pushed down our throats!
The Facts:
- John Cena won the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 21 and has spent most of the time since, on top
- Cena has main-evented the past three WrestleManias
- Cena rarely looses
- Cena's storylines often involved the deck being stacked against him, only for the Champ to pull out a win
The Verdict: A champion should be the focus of the show. Maybe, Cena has been over-exposed but certainly no more than Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin or The Rock ever were. This is another case of haters looking for anything to throw at Cena.
It's the joint baby, gotta make it loud! So let me hear some noise from the crowd!
The Hate: Cena is a terrible promo guy!
The Facts:
- Cena first got over through his promos as a rapper
- Cena's promo style has much in common with that of The Rock in that he frequently uses comedy, facial expressions etc.
- Cena has a slew of catchphrases
The Verdict: Cena is one of the best promo guys in the business. He possesses the ability to seamlessly move from comedy to seriousness with a twitch of the face. He keeps the crowd entertained and keeps them involved with his catchphrases including You Can't See Me!
Your time is up, my time is now! You can't see me, my time is now. It's the franchise and I'm shining now. You can't see me, my time is now!
Cena haters, you can't handle the truth! We live in a world that has businesses driven by money. And those businesses have to be promoted by men with honour and prestige. Who's gonna do it? Brian Danielson? Takeshi Moreshima? John Cena has a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for ROH and you curse the Champ. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Cena's title runs, while predictable, sells pay-per-views. And Cena's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, sells out arenas like Madison Square Garden...
You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Cena holding that strap. You need Cena to be WWE Champion.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a slogan. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who watches and entertains themselves through pro wrestling, an field that would not thrive like it does without the likes of John Cena, then questions the manner in which Cena does it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you lace up a pair of boots and do it better. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
If John Cena wasn't WWE Champion, you people still wouldn't be happy. You'd find something else to bitch and complain about because that's what you do. You're the kind of fans who think that Vince McMahon should cater to your needs and your wishes despite what is good for business. And funnily enough, what's good for Vince McMahon's business is good for pro wrestling period.
I for one could not be happier, because the Champ… is back.
This isn't really related, but I was reminded of it. During Survivor Series, when Vince told the fans they could forget about Shaquille O'Neill because "I don't give a damn what you want", someone on Youtube stated "it's true, he doesn't care what the fans want. He only cares about the money." When I asked him how 1) he was supposedly making money off the back of a Hornswoggle/Khali feud, and 2) how he could possibly make money in any way OTHER than from the finances of the satisfied fans, he called me a 'helmet'. He might know fuck all about wrestling, but I'll happily commend ANYONE who uses 'helmet' as an insult.
Posted By: T.G. Corke (Registered) on January 29, 2008 at 03:15 PM
Good read. Im a 27 yr old male who likes ROH, and Cenas my favourite wrestler. I dont get the hate either. Anyway, welcome back champ!
Posted By: chris g (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 03:35 PM
I too was thrilled to see the return of the Champ. There really is no one like him in the business. Not Dragon, not Nigel, not Angle, not Edge. Cena is king. No one, seriously no one, gets the reaction Cena gets. I have never seen (live) a crowd more in to a match than at Summerslam last year. The crowd was lame all night and once Cena came out, everyone was screaming at the top of their lungs. I have to disagree about the Rumble crowd, though. I was at MSG and the crowd was hot. I've even had a chance to watch the tape, and it showed on camera. Most Rumble participants got huge pops. Tommy Dreamer got a huge "E-C-Dub" chant and got his name chanted. Even Jamie Noble got his name chanted! Huge (and well deserved) "you can't wrestle" chants directed at Kahli and Snitsky. I tried to get one started for Mr. Botchery (uh, I mean Kennedy) but no one was having it. The place blew up for Hot Rod, blew up for Hunter, and exploded for Cena. Even before the Rumble, the crowd was very vocal. Rey didn't get booed because it's cool, he got booed because he was built as a chump challenger. Why would the fans cheer for someone who had no chance? Jeff Hardy, on the other hand, got one of the loudest pops of the night. I think I might have been the only one sitting for his entrance (I'm not a Hardy hater, just an Orton mark). Overall it was a solid show, with one of the greatest surprise comebacks of all time. When the horns hit, I couldn't believe it. The E did a terrific job keeping it under wraps. With the No Way Out card shaping up to be great, I think this could be a good year for WWE PPV. Here's to another Cena-headlined Wrestlemania. Cena haters, stay home.
Posted By: Bernie (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 03:55 PM
cena rocks.i dont understand how ppl can boo cena but cheer finlay whose suppose to be this bad ass yet all he does is beat ppl with a stick.finlays crap dont believe me see a match with him in wcw against ultimo dragon.finlay gets owned with the dragon sleeper.but then again ultimo is the best...
Posted By: guest (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 03:55 PM
It is just that no one likes the plucky baby face any more and who is the pluckiest of them all, Mr Cena!
Posted By: Matt P (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 04:05 PM
nice a few good men reference
Posted By: Dominick (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 04:15 PM
MITB NEEDS to go back to 6 men, 8 is way too much of a clusterfuck.
Posted By: Rick (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 04:25 PM
Great article. I just hate how both Triple H and Cena get hate from the internet. But at the live shows Triple H always gets a positive reaction. I've never got that, are fans scared that he may come into the crowd with his sledgehammer?
Posted By: Henry (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Meh, see the fact is I never liked John Cena because hes a rapper wrestler. Just seemed like a stupid gimmick, something on the midcard. Once they stopped playing that I started liking him more. I think other fans hated him for that reason and then just forgot why they hated him, and now they're too stubborn to turn it around. Hes much better than Jeff Hardy and I am glad hes back to save me from Jeff. Ask me why I hate Jeff Hardy, first of all, if I saw that guy in real life, I'd hate him. Rainbow haired warrior is not something to look up to, the hand signal has nothing attached to it to make it cool, it is just lame, the crowd that they show popping for him is generally the ones i find annoying, the fact is who cares what gets the company more ratings or money or anything that benefits them, its what benefits yourself because you watch it, and the only thing that should matter to you is your own opinion. Do I care whether Vince is a billionaire or not, no. We as the fans are allowed to be picky because with all the choices in this world, you have to pick a certain few. Too much more Hornswoggle and Jeff Hardy, post mania I'm done with the WWE because Hornswoggle was named Vinces illegitimate child. And you know what, I'm a picky "terrible" fan, just like the ones you claim to be bad fans in MSG. They're not bad fans, they just want to be terribly entertained like they were in their favorite wrestling memories.
Posted By: Tony (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 04:35 PM
Great article, though you didn't mention the most asinine comment of all: that Cena wasn't really hurt and that the whole surgery was just a work. On second thought that is so absurd I can understand why you didn't waste the column space on it.
Posted By: Bramtic (Registered) on January 29, 2008 at 04:50 PM
People who love Cena are either girls, little kids, or gays. And on top of it, he cannot wrestle, he knows NOTHING about technical wrestling, his character is set up as an arrogant dickhead who has the "I know I'll never lose" attitude so anytime anyone else cuts a promo, Cena stands there with some crap arrogant smile on his face, which makes the other guy look bad. Anyone who is a fan of Cena knows NOTHING about being a real wrestling fan.
Posted By: Real Wrestling Fan (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 04:51 PM
not all cena haters deep down want to see him injured or out of wrestling, we would just like him to have some fueds away from the WWE Title Scenes. That's not asking too much
Posted By: Luke (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:01 PM
Real Wrestling Fan... you didn't make a single good point... go back to the basement and watch ROH DVDs
Posted By: Guest#9125 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:11 PM
Allow me to offer my two cents. I think the hate stems from Cena being made into a shell of his Smackdown self when coming to Raw. Although I am still a fan of his work, and his promo work is highly entertaining, it seems as if he has lost his edge. I preferred the trash talking battle rapping Cena, or the hip-hop Stone Cold if you will. Since coming to Raw, we have not heard him tear anyone to shreds, lyrically, aside from Christian upon first arrival, and K-fed. I am far from a Cena Hater, as a matter of fact I have been a fan of his since his debut against Angle. But I do think he may be due for a slight character overhaul. not necessarily a complete heel turn, but something to give him back an edge. Although a heel Cena vs. a babyface Jeff Hardy at Wrestlemania does hold some potential excitement.
Posted By: Todd (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:14 PM
but let me bet you love Rock RWF. Its stuck up people like you who think just because someone likes cena there not Real fans make me sick . and before youn say I am not a real fan I have watcheD WWF/JCP/AWA/ and countless more wrestleing companys for 20 + years
Posted By: Guest#2188 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:15 PM
My problem is actually not with Cena, it is the way he is booked. I can't stand the "superman" booking of the champ always wins and holds the belt for a year. I hated it when they gave Triple H the belt for a year, I hated it when they gave JBL the belt for a year, and I hated and will continue to hate it when Cena gets the belt for a year. It's boring and predictable no matter who it is. We all know that WM24 is gonna end the same way the last two WM's have with Cena holding the belt in the air as they fade to black. The thing I hate about year long title reigns is that they job out the whole roster to make one guy look good. (i.e. Cena's last reign where they jobbed Umaga,Michaels,Khali,Lashley, and Orton). After that there were no credible threats left to the title. I'm not saying go back to the attitude era days when the title changed hands every month, I'm just saying don't make it so obvious that your champ is gonna win every month that after awhile nobody buys into anymore.
Posted By: Brian (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:18 PM
Real Wrestling Fan is 100% correct. Any wrestler's gimmick that was started by doing a goof on Vanilla Ice is pretty bad. Thats like giving someone form the Mean St. Posse the world title, the guys a novelty act that should be on Smackdown and maybe win the US title. How come his raps have gone away?, wheres the "word life?" He sounded like he had a southern accent on Monday night, I like how he can switch from talking wigganomics to talking whiter than McMahon. He needs to disapear, put him in ECW. That winning streak he had was so ridiculous and obnoxious, he must be sleeping with Pat Patterson to get that kind of super-push. I hope he gets a career ending injury.
Posted By: Razors Edge (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:27 PM
I was excited for Cena's return until they decided to have him challenge at No Way Out instead of WM. Now will just get to see Cena-HHH II, joy.
Posted By: Guest#0229 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:40 PM
I totally agree with Brian.
Posted By: Guest#9990 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:41 PM
yes really like the "a few good men reference". Cena and JBL did a good promo for wm21 alluding to the movie, maybe that was what you hinted at? :)
Posted By: micke (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:41 PM
You honestly believe that Cena nevr took steroids to recover? I hate Cena fanboys.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:42 PM
And another thing: his promos are terrible, not funny, forced emotion, and has more grunting than an episode of Dragon Ball Z.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:45 PM
For a website that is supposed to cater to more educated fan, there is sure a lot of nonsense being spouted about Cena.
"Real" Wrestling fan slurring people as homosexuals for liking a wrestler is the typical immature crap I've been reading since these comments appeared on the site.
And Razor's Edge, suggesting that WWE bury their most marketable attraction on their least watched program is akin to telling Fox to air American Idol at 3 am on Friday nights. Just because you personally don't like something doesn't mean it will or should go away.
Posted By: matt_telthorst (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:45 PM
I hate when people hate him because of the wigger gimmick. When was the last time he busted out a rap? Honestly some of these comments embarass me as a wrestling fan. "I hope he gets a career ending injury." Look you may dislike him and all, but don't put that kind of ill will on a person. And the reason why he's the champ is because he is the biggest star in wrestling today. He gets the biggest and loudest reactions (positive or negative). Notice how RAW's numbers have been tanking ever since he got injured? In the next few week it should be back at the high 3s. Plus he's a great ambassador for the company. WWE always tries to pmake big stars out of people that can positively portray the company. In the past two years WWE tried to push a major program with two stars, Kennedy and RVD and they both royally fucked THEMSELVES (NOT Vince or the booking) over.
Posted By: Henry (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:53 PM
To the person who said that Cena knows no ring psychology: I couldn't agree more. I try to explain that to my friends but they laugh because I apparantly look like a loser for knowing Insider terms.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:55 PM
And for any ROHbot that complains about Cena's title matches being predictable and the same thing, just watch all of Morishima's title defenses again.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 05:57 PM
JJ, do you have any medical or scientific facts or inside knowledge that proves that Cena did take steroids to recover. Do you have any reason to believe he did so other than you hate Cena fanboys? If you do, I'm all ears.
Posted By: Daniel Wilcox (Registered) on January 29, 2008 at 05:59 PM
Cena is awesome. I'm glad he's back. I marked out so much at the Rumble.
Posted By: J-WHU (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:01 PM
I don't see how anyone could compare Cena's promos to The Great One. Rocky's promos were funny and sounded as if he were making them up as he went along (which he may have been doing). Cena's often sounds like they were scripted to sound funny, but they're really not. It's not entirely his fault as the writers insist that the wrestlers stick to the script (unless you're Triple H).
Posted By: Mr. C. (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:15 PM
Heh, Cena hating nowadays is staler than Dudley Boyz, especially that it still uses the same arguments that were true when he first won the title, despite the fact that Cena came a long way from there. Wake up people, it's not 2005 anymore.
Although people bashing Cena haters by telling them to go watch ROH DVDs are laughable too, exposing - to paraphrase Krazy Kurt - their mental midgetry. Is it so hard to accept that both Cena and RoH are awesome, showing two different facets of wrestling?
Posted By: Pete (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:18 PM
JJ--
Congrats on knowing "insider" terms first off. (I have a WWF program from 1993 where you can rank each match according to psychology, by the way.) But, psychology is more than knowing headlock counters or 17 different ways to apply a backbreaker, it is also storytelling. Look at Cena and Umaga's match from the Royal Rumble last year for a great example of emotional storytelling within a match. Guarantee you Danielson, Aries, Strong, and anyone else you'd care to name would have stood up and gave that match a standing ovation
Posted By: matt_telthorst (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:19 PM
The funny thing is that while people complain that Cena's fanbase is being mostly girls and kids, Edge's fanbase consists of Emos, fanboys, and the non-intelligent section of the IWC
Posted By: Shone Jones (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:22 PM
I'm sorry, but the people who hate Cena are usually the same people that think TNA is good. John Cena makes the WWE MILLIONS OF MILLIONS of dollars. Why else would he keep getting top billing and main event spots? The guy is a cash cow, and if you don't want him there, stop watching RAW, stop buying PPVs, and stop buying merch from them. The guy is their #1 dog, why would they NOT give him a huge spot like the Main Event of WrestleMania if possible. Pretty much my informative opinion and the very reason why I am a fan of his. I don't love him, I don't hate him...but in my eyes he's one of the best business people in the WORLD right now. Not only that, but give the guy some sympathy. I'm sure if you met him, you'd be marking no matter what. Surely enough he's as down to earth as a few people would be. Why the hell not? I say good work because it may be a long ass while until anything in wrestling shocks the hell out of me like that. In the great words of Dark Helmet from Spaceballs: FOOLED YOU!!!
Posted By: Kevin F. (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:26 PM
It's good to see Cena back, though I'd much rather see Cena-Orton at Mania and have HHH stay well out of it. However if you honestly think Cena didn't juice to rehab his injury (especially when he could get a legit prescription to do so) then I think you're just deluding yourselves. You'd have thought in the post-Benoit era people would have come to accept that juicing is common practice. That's not me taking a shot at Cena, it's just the way things are.
Posted By: Evil Doink (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:28 PM
My main issue with Cena is this...
When Rock and Austin were on top, a lot of the ideas were fresh, a lot of the promo's weren't scripted and the guys seemed more like a natural fit for those roles. Rock really seemed like the kinda guy who'd call you Hermie, get a cheer from the bar crowd and then yell "if you smell what the rock is cooking."
Austin seemed like the kind of guy who'd run you over with a ride on lawnmower, flip you the bird and pour beer all over you.
Cena seems like the kinda guy who gets passed a script that says "do it like the Rock" and falls short.
His promo's aren't on par with Rock or Austin, they're poorly writen hack jobs.
In the ring Cena's got his 5 moves of doom like evrybody else, but he doesn't make them look good at all. His spinout powerbomb is horrible. His STFU is a lame attempt to show he can actually wrestle, and the FU is a terribly low impact, unoriginal finisher.
He was a lot better on Smackdown, and he was a lot more fun before they started trying to make him Hulk Hogan. He's the biggest star they've got, I won't argue that... but seriously, there's a large section of the audience that's tired of his act. And I think the backlash came about Sunday and since because maybe, just maybe some of us were holding out hope that Cena would add a little depth to his character. It hasn't happened and it won't happen for a while.
Cena's act isn't for everyone, this is why we watched WCW back in the day. Not everyone liked Vince's view of the wrestling world so we watched someone else's. Now we can't, (not realistically anyway... a lot of people can't buy 5 or 10 dvd's a year to watch what they want or follow ROH. And a lot of fans can't get what they want out of TNA either. So we voice an opinion.
If we had all been on the net in '97 we would have been bemoaning Sid beating Michaels for the title and... or in '94 Luger getting the Hogan push.
Face it, WWE has a history of force feeding characters down our throats in the main event.
And a lot of the problem is these guys eat up so much of the show, we either don't get to see the wresters we like, or if they do get on TV or PPV, they get less time because of guys like HHH and Cena who aren't as universally popular as you and many others would like to think.
And finally... Cena doesn't really equal ratings or PPV buys.
They've been on a steady decline for quite a while now and he hasn't made a difference either way, so nice try on that argument.
Posted By: Bahb (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:44 PM
Yup, Cena has the biggest negative reactions. He's face getting more boo's than heels. Stop to think about that for a second.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:45 PM
Wilcox rocks! Cena haters are sad and pathetic. What you said about the crowd was so true. The way they treated Rey was uncalled for. I do wish that the WWE would stop going to places like that. One thing that I disagree with you about was when you said that Edge won cleanly. Vicky had to get involved twice in order for Edge to "win". That's hardly clean. I wished that Rey had won just to shut up the crowd. Your defense of Cena was brilliant, and I wish more people would do it. LONG LIVE CENA AND WILCOX!!!
Posted By: Capt. Smooth (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:46 PM
And has anybody realized that Cena's popular during a period when WWE itself isn't even popular. I mean, HBK was "popular" during a period when WWE was a victim of the most unholy ass whooping the likes of which nobody had ever seen before, so does that really make him a popular wrestler during that period?
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 06:49 PM
Amazing rant on Cena haters, I loved reading that because I too hate when people bitch and moan about Cena. Great job!
Posted By: PJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:00 PM
Words can't describe how glad you brought up the whole "five moves of doom" excuse, "being shoved down our throats" excuse and "bad promo" excuse, then throwing them back in these haters' faces.
Sometimes I think deep inside, they need John Cena just so they would feel happy.
As for people whining about Cena winning the Royal Rumble "and chanting TNA along the way," let me ask you this. And I'm talking about the final 3 at the Royal Rumble as well.
Would you rather see another Triple H reign as the champion? WE'VE SEEN 11 OF THEM, WHY SHOULD WE SUFFER THROUGH A 12TH? Or even better, I counted 14 title shots for Batista since August 2006. If Batista won, would you have enjoyed a 15th? I sure as hell don't think so.
To conclude, I will say this again: we as wrestling fans, don't have the foggiest clue as to what the frickin' hell we want to see. We might THINK that we do, but we sure as hell don't.
OR, the most obvious flaws in a company can be laughing in our faces *cough* HHH *cough* but we would look for the nearest scapegoat to blame.
No wonder Vince McMahon caters to the younger generation, seeing as how they would enjoy what they see, as opposed to a wannabe smart fan who think they know everything, but they sure as hell don't.
Posted By: lightning116 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:02 PM
Fuck it, what m I talking about? WWE test EXTENSIVELY for steroids, so I shouldn't make accusations, even if he is walking around with more needles in his bag than a cancer ward. And Batista OBVIOUSLY doesn't take steroids, even if his bag is full of pills, because he would've been suspended by now thanks to WWE's INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE and COMPLETELY FAIR AND UNBIASED Wellness Policy.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:04 PM
I personally like Cena. His character has evolved over the years. He has become a more complete wrestler. Don't say that I knwo nothing about wrestling. I love ROH, Bryan Danielson is really the best in the world. I personally hate the IWC. If some of you fat fucks think you can do a better job, stop typing, leave your parents basement, and make a go at it. Until you do I ciuld give less than two shits what you think.
And one last thing JJ, you know absolutely nothing about steroids, or fan reactions, or anything but looking at porn on the net. So piss off you bloody wanker.
Posted By: J (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:14 PM
Great article, I agree with everything you said about Cena. However one major gripe I have is your assessment that the crowd was terrible. I was in the crowd and the crowd was hot ALL NIGHT LONG. From the time Jimmy Wang Yang came out for the dark match until Cena threw HHH out, the arena was hot. I don't know how you can say otherwise. Piper/Snuka got almost as big a pop as Cena did. Flair, Edge, and Hardy also got huge pops. The crowd was definitely not terrible, maybe you got a bad feed or something.(the standard definition version, perhaps?)
Posted By: ND (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:21 PM
So I'm a fat fuck? Damn, all this time I thought I was only 140 pounds, but I guess since you're generalization is correct, I guess I was well over 350 pounds the whole time. And explain why I'm wrong about the points that I made about Cena.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:27 PM
Even while Cena was injured, the haters wouldn't leave him alone. Remember No Mercy in Chicago, when Vince announced what we thought would be how long he'd been out, those morons cheered. Shit like that is so embarassing.
Posted By: William (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:27 PM
Bottom line....anyone who cheers for John Cena is not a true wrestling fan. A true wrestling fan knows that John Cena is NOT a main eventer and that he is nothing more than a midcard comedy act. Look at the numbers ever since John Cena has been pushed too the moon.....ratings have been on a steady decline as have ppv buys!!! Sure he'll get cheered in the small markets like Boise, or Huntsville, Alabama....those people will cheer for anything Vince tells them too!!!!! Face it.....people who cheer for John Cena are the same people who would literally cheer for a steaming pile of dog shit that is just sitting in the middle of the ring!!!!!!1
Posted By: craig (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:39 PM
I think you people are wasting too much emotion on a fucking tv show. If you don't like Cena being on top, then vote with your thumb and change the fucking channel. Vince will stop pushing his moneymakers when they, you know, stop making money. Otherwise, shut your trap, enjoy the show, and be happy.
Posted By: Frank (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:40 PM
I don't hate Cena, I don't care about Cena. I don't care about his matches because it's obvious he's going to pull out the same old crap. Sure the Rock and Stone Cold were pushed down our throats, but they didn't hold the belt for months on end, you always believed they could lose. Sure it was unlikely that Hardy was going to win at the Rumble, but there was always that doubt, if Hardy had been facing Cena there'd have been none at all. And no, it's not a case of looking at crap to throw at Cena, it's a legitimate argument, and one that you've not answered at all. How long would you like to see Cena retain as champ? Even the most fanatical Cena mark will get bored eventually.
Posted By: Tom (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:40 PM
Really, the reason why Cena hater keep watching i because of that old 1999 Vince Russo Car-crash mentality: If you throw 300 pounds of shit at a giant fan but don't give viewers the chance to change the channel, they'll keep watching just to see how bad it can get.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:41 PM
i hate cena but he makes vince money. no getting around that. vince will use him until death. i mainly don't like any long title runs but cena's are the most boring cuz u know he will win. how long do u think he would of held the title if he didn't get hurt? it sucks to be a wrestler with a lot of potential only to be shelved becuz of Cena. Other than that Cena has become a better wrestler than he ever was. I still hate him though.
Posted By: Guest#9997 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:44 PM
Thanks for this brilliant defense. I have been looking forward for this article at 411mania.
And yes I agree that most Cena haters are TNA fans. Then again for these TNA lemmings, NOTHING IS GOOD ENOUGH THAT EVER CAME FROM WWE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE TNA LABEL
Posted By: kapengmabula (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 07:57 PM
I find it amusing that all the Cena haters still comment after Daniel just schooled them.
Posted By: Kyle Smithson (Registered) on January 29, 2008 at 08:18 PM
I don't like TNA. Nice try. And we didn't get "schooled". Just a Cena fanboy defending him.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 08:21 PM
Okay, I'm ALL RIGHT with Cena-- don't love him or hate him. BUT this is the problem with the guy: GET HIM AWAY FROM THE BELT FOR A WHILE!
Seriously, he had a stranglehold on it forever. What he needs (even more than a heel turn) is a BLOOD FEUD that has **NOTHING** to do with the belt, while (and let me stress this part) he is NOT in the title picture.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 08:39 PM
Wrong, Don't even compare Cena and the Rock as far as promos go. Cena sounds more scripted than any main event guy i have ever seen. When the Rock did it, it was effortless as if he was speaking right off the top of his head. And please, Cena's humor is for kids. He's not funny, I have never laughed at anything he said. The Rock's humor was for adults. I'm not bashing Cena as a whole. He makes money, he's a hard worker and he delivers in the big match when hes wrestling someone who can guide him along, but the reason we boo him is because the whole act is stale. Something needs to be changed with him. A heel turn would be ideal but it won't happen. I am one of those guys that boo him because when it comes the likes of hart michaels angle jericho, hhh undertaker austin and rock he doesn't even compare and yes he has been jammed down our throats. I'm sorry but if you watched wrestling in the 80's and 90's you should not be rooting for Cena or Batista. I'm from new jersey and its obvious that the tri- state area realizes who is good and who is lame (for example booing mysterio cause hes all for kids now & cena.) Don't get me wrong either i don't like the way triple h and michaels are portrayed now because they are a shitty comedy act and whores for their merchandise, but they have already done more than enough for me to respect them still.
Posted By: joe (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 08:51 PM
My thoughts exactly, Joe. While HBK and HHH are the WWE's barburyians, they've done more than enough for me to respect them. Rey got booed because he's toned down his act consierably. Look at the Rey from AAA, ECW, and WCW, and compare him to the Rey in WWE and you'd probably boo him too.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:01 PM
good article. I especially like the cena can't wrestle. he CAN people! He's not flair or even shawn michaels, but he works his ass off for us. Now, i'm not much of a cena fan because i like the technical wrestling like Y2J. But damn it, i will not sit by and let people say he can't wrestle. HE CAN. END OF STORY.
Posted By: i like digimon (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:03 PM
And on your point on Rock and Austin being shoved dow our throats: Oftentimes, those guys would spend time away from the title picture or just not have the title for a while. When Austin lost the title back in late 1998, he didn't hold it for another 6 months, allowing for WWE to finally pull the trigger or Makind and The Rock. When he came back in 2000, he wasn't thrust immediately into the title picture. He fueded with Rikishi and HHH and was only in one world title match, whic was a multi-man HIAC match. He didn't really return to the title picture until after No Way Out 2001. The Rock spent a lot o time after Backlah '99 away from the title picture as well. With Cena, he's immediately brougt bck into the title picture while everyone else is pushed on the backburner.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:12 PM
Cena hater - Yeah, I'm one. It's not because he can't wrestle. I know he can. It's because he was shoved down our throats and it was assumed we'd like him. Well, call me the poster-child for reverse psychology because that's the very type of wrestler (superstar???) I can't stand.
Maybe if he was turned heel, I'd like him because he's supposed to be hated. I always liked Raven that way back in the 90s, when we were supposed to hate him, I liked him because he was so good at being hated.
Another thing about Cena is that his instant return automatically qualifies him to be in the title picture, relegating guys like Kennedy, Hardy, Umaga, Carlito, and everyone else on the roster to JTTS status, and once Orton drops the belt, he'll be on that list, too. Never mind that Cena will be gone in a short time to film another movie that sounds ljust like the marine all over again. So, when we actually do get to see him, we will only be witnessing him work off the ring rust before he disappears again.
Posted By: The Phenomonal RJ Styles (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:14 PM
Cena, HBK, and HHH...the only 3 people keeping wrestling interesting. I would sure love an HBK championship run, though, along with a DX Tag Team title run (at the same time).
Posted By: Guest#3645 (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:17 PM
If you hate John Cena the man, you're an idiot. John Cena in real life is a great guy, has tons of charisma, doesn't do backstage politics, is a talented talker, and can wrestle just fine.
John Cena the character, however, is a boring, overpushed, predictable, unfunny, stale megaface who people are sick of seeing. When people were booing him in 2005 when he had just started his title reign, you'd think Vince would wise up and give him something new to work with, a heel turn or something. No, instead, the writers shove him down our throats for the next two years, only caring about what the little kiddies think.
I have no problems with John Cena. I have problems with Vince McMahon, who refuses to listen to what the fans want, Triple H who makes it damn near impossible for anyone that isn't himself or Cena to succeed, and the writers who try to make him sound exactly like The Rock every week. The problem is, he's not The Rock, and they need to stop trying to make him out to be The frikkin' Rock. They need stop giving him shitty rip-offs of The Great One's mannerisms because he's able to deliver good promos on his own merits and he doesn't need to try to channel someone else's popularity (The constant gay jokes don't help) I hate how every week it was "BAH GAWD IT'S JOHN CENA IN A 12-ON-1 HANDICAP MATCH CAN HE OVERCOME THE ODDS?" and he always won those matches CLEAN. No help, no weapons, no dirty tricks, it was simply a Shoulder Tackle, Shoulder Tackle, Suplex, Protobomb, F-U (which is the least painful looking finisher I've ever seen) and possibly a People's Elb- I mean 5 Knuckle Shuffle, and he won. That was IT. And I got SICK OF IT.
But like I said, I hate John Cena the character, how he's booked, the fact that Vinnie Mac refuses to even bother acknowledging that only kids and women cheer for him, and that Cena himself hasn't said "Hey look Vince, they hate me, how about we tweak my character so I don't come off as an unstoppable douchebag?"
BABYFACES AREN'T SUPPOSED TO GET BOOED. Not even Hogan stayed babyface for long after he started getting boos in WCW.
Oh and PS: How the hell is a clothesline a signature move? Everyone frikkin' uses it, I still don't even buy it as a finisher for JBL.
Posted By: Anon (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:22 PM
how many fukin MOTY's does Cena need to be agood wrestler
Posted By: Real Wrestling fans like Cena! (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:28 PM
To the point about Austin and Rock being shoved down our throats: when Austin lost the title at Breakdown in 1998, he didn't hold the title for another 6 months, allowing WWF to pull the trigger on Mankind and The Rock. When he came back in 2000, he wasn't immediately thrusted into the title scene. He feuded with HHH ad Rikishi and was only in one world title match - a 6 man Hell In A Cell match. Despite winning he Rumble, he didn't return to the title picture until after No Way Out. And Rock spent a lot of time away from the title picture after Backlash '99. Meanwhile, Cena's immediately brought back into the title picture while everone else is pushed on the backburner.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:28 PM
Cena hasn't had a single MOTY. Unless you count the same old spotfest and one hour snoozefests as MOTYs, of course.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:37 PM
The one pro-Cena argument that I hate is that no one can draw genuine emotion like Cena because he gets the crowd riled up and want to see him lose. Are you fucking stupid? When you're the top faced and you get booed, it's NOT a good thing.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 09:59 PM
if you guys think you're gods gift to pro wrestling then go ahead and apply as bookers, writers or in ring performers. until then, if you dont like it, change the channel.
Posted By: tired of IWC (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 10:10 PM
The WWE policy on steroids and other drug taking, is it will only be allowed if there is a prescription to cover it. Since steroids are a prescribed medication for muscle tears, it is almost certain they would be prescribed to John Cena after his injury.
Posted By: pdh (Guest) on January 29, 2008 at 10:11 PM
