Your Viral Dose of Reality 2.12.08: Randomly Viral
Posted by Jarrod Westerfeld on 02.12.2008
Grab your batting sticks and find yourself a dead horse, because TNA bashing is in this week. After a mini rant about Against All Odds, we return to talk about No Way Out, Vince Russo, who is a real wrestling fan, and ROH. What more do you want in life? Besides Trish Stratus on your bed
This week, I'm going to slip back into Mr. Negativity to start off this article, so anyone who appreciated what I did last week, you may want to skip ahead to the big shiny image I'm going to put up for the sake of showcasing that it's safe for you all to read again.
TNA Presents: Greed 2008
I don't care what people think of me when I say this, but I watched TNA Against All Odds on a shitty stream, and I went ahead, at the end of the night, and downloaded the torrent, will burn that fucker to a DVD, and never watch it again. It'll be my tool of reference to showcase a failed attempt to feature an event to a loyal fanbase that has become so gullible as to still hold onto the simple minded belief that TNA is delivering a great product for them. I thank the Lord above whatever you call him, however you believe Him to look, or Her to look, and whatever rules you believe he bestows upon us all that some TNA fans are actually starting to realize that they do deserve better.
I understand that most of you [TNA fans] are bitter and angry at the WWE for focusing their product away from what you want, and were willing to pay for, but even you need to come to grips that TNA, right now, is making crucial mistake, after crucial mistake that is hurting itself, and spitting in your face.
I don't care how many of you are too bitter to give Ryan Byers points for his Impact Crater last week, but he hit the nail on the head throughout the entire piece. Why? Because he called TNA on their apparent flaws that you all can see the stuff that you should be thinking, "why are they doing this?" The stuff that you should be crying, "TNA is spitting in our face; it's questioning our intelligence," because that's what they've done each and every week, now.
Painting a rosy picture of TNA isn't going to help them out. You people want to inflict change in the WWE, so most of you latched onto this alternative product that was just making itself available to a national audience and was giving you what you thought you wanted most, and it did its part for a while. But when do you all get to scream that TNA needs to do what brought you to their product? When do you cry that TNA needs to change for the better? When do you actually put your foot down and pronounce to the world, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to [fucking] take it anymore"?
I don't follow the logic here anymore, and I certainly can't give Glenn Gilbertti points for his argument against Konnan, though I had to deduct a shit load of points from Konnan for being unable to argue an intelligent point against the ratings saying that the people who are watching must be retards? I can do that here because I don't care to be objective in my "hatred" of TNA, but if I'm going to argue a point, I'm not going to use a flawed thought process, when I can easily grab facts, throw them into his face and laugh at their inability to counter reality.
I can't be bothered to care for Against All Odds, which I can clearly hear in the background, while I sit in a Skype conference with two TNA fans who are crying about how bad this show has become.
All I know is TNA gives me no reason to care about their overall product. People can hate me for wanting to see Tomko and Angle go at it, something I think could sell well if they give Tomko the Joe treatment that Joe didn't get the build that leads to a good payoff with Angle at Bound for Glory for the richest prize in the company.
See, I'm not going to take any low shots here; I'm going to actually voice out my issues with TNA that are easily fixable, the stuff that should be better right now.
Structure.
Why does this company lack it considering how many great wrestling minds they have under their contract? I know, a lot of you are going to cry about Vince Russo, but you can't accredit the Attitude Era without him, and the reason for that is because Russo did make that era what it was all under someone who could tell him what was good and what wasn't. But that all aside, it's not his fault TNA is as bad as it is right now, because his input is limited under Jeff Jarrett and Dutch Mantel. Hell, even Jeremy Borash has more input in the direction of the product than Russo, but all you ever hear is how bad a job Vincy is doing, which boggles my mind.
Yeah, you guys were right in chanting, "fire Russo" last year at Final Resolution because it was a vocal outcry about the crap direction the company was taking. My problem with it was that the message was wrong the sentiment was right. While you all were crying for a change in direction, Dixie shrugged it off and remarked that the fans don't know what they're talking about as Vince isn't the problem you all would shrug that off as her being protective of one of her employees, which was wrong.
This company has Mike Tenay, who is clearly has one of the best minds in the industry seeing as he follows everything wrestling and is said to have one of the biggest tape libraries in the industry, why not utilize him in a better role? Have him book some matches and write some stories? You still have Scott D'Amore who was the man behind the undercard of 2005 if you guys really enjoyed that era in TNA's history, then why aren't you crying for D'Amore to get his spot back as the main writer? They had Raven, who could come up with a million different stories to put the shows over that would make sense, but instead opted to utilize him as a broken down wrestler, all because Jeff Jarrett has a personal problem with him.
You still have Jim Cornette under contract, so why not use him as your head booker? Shit, he could be the muzzle on Russo that you need, so Russo gets filtered to deliver only the goods you've seen from him in the Attitude Era, and none of the crap. Fucking hell, you could even use Kevin Nash's mind for the industry to really put on a better product than this. I don't even care if he starts holding down the "vanilla midgets" so long as he actually utilizes them in a big enough role to keep us entertained in the undercard.
And you know how you can get your message across to TNA? How you can instill the change? Turn them off.
The pay-per-view buyrates already suffer, but so long as they think they're doing great because the ratings remain strong, or improving, then they'll never change, and you'll be left with more Black Reign, Scott Steiner, and all this other trash that doesn't make sense that you insist upon is okay the trash that you believe we're nit picking upon.
But I'll do you all the favor and shut up because I know a lot of you will write me off as some "smark" who thinks he knows better, and is a bitter "ROHbot" who just hates on TNA because they "stole my precious ROH talents from me," or whatever other nonsense you can come up with. I know none of you will listen to my words, and continue down this ignorant, masochistic road of "enjoying" this inferior indy product that has a television deal, but at least I vented out what I have a problem with. Shame I can never get this worked up about liking the product, or get a chance to explain to you about the things I DISLIKE about ROH, but seeing as most people are still holding onto this belief that TNA is the greatest thing ever, I feel a need almost a civic duty to voice out against it so these people can get that sort of quality out of TNA.
Finding a Happy Place
I think these articles come off better when I'm actually happy about something in the wrestling world, but in the midst of this clouded anger geared towards TNA, I certainly can't think of anything positive at the moment.
So now I'm going to run off in blind search of a happy place any happy place will do, so long as it'll help me get through the remaining 4 pages of this article. Heaven hold mercy upon me for this task.
Orton Not an MVP in My Eyes
A few people seemed to dislike the fact that I didn't put Orton in my top 20, but there's a reason I didn't feel he was an MVP, and that's the fact that he's a transitional champion. He's the guy the company put the strap on because Cena went down to injury, and he's the guy the WWE never really got behind enough to sell me on the fact he was worth needing a savior [Chris Jericho]. Triple H during the height of the McMahon-Helmsley era was a guy we needed saving from, Orton was just a pompous prick that was doing the typical main event heel trash.
Had he improved enough to be seen more viably in a bigger role? Yeah, but that came more from earlier in 2007 after Rated RKO had finished up their program together, and he seriously hadn't done anything, as a champion, that was nearly as impressive as what he did building up to his first match with Orton.
Besides, if I did more research into Japan, and Mexico, I'm sure there were a lot more guys more fitting for that list than Orton, that didn't make it because I'm unaware of them and what they've done.
No Way Out of Bad Booking
Over booking should be trademarked by Vince Russo, and Ed Ferrara. It should be copyright infringement whenever a show is overbooked, and Vince Russo isn't working that show. Gabe Sapolsky owes TNA a good chunk of change for the overbooked nonsense that was the triple threat match between Austin Aries, Roderick Strong and Jack Evans at Manhattan Mayhem II. And now, Vince McMahon owes Russo a new bank account in the Cayman Islands thanks to No Way Out.
I get it: No Way Out usually does poorly in the buyrates because it falls under the misfortunate schedule of being sandwiched between the two biggest events of the wrestling year, and as such, gets no love because it's viewed as a filler event from the Rumble, to last us a little bit before Mania. I know I've thought that giving it a big gimmick would be the only way to sell it, and I've talked to a few others about this who seem to be of the same mind when it comes to trying to sell No Way Out. But TWO fucking [Elimination] Chamber matches? Why?
The sad part is, now everyone who predicted Undertaker to win the EC is going to be right, and those who predicted Jeff Hardy, months in advanced when the poster was leaked onto the internet, is going to be sorely saddened by the harsh reality of Triple Conan, and his mighty He-Man like power.
It could be fun, but the part I don't get is how they plan to squeeze these two, lengthy matches on the same card, and still have a compelling undercard revolving around 3 [World] Championship bouts and I use the word "world" very loosely.
The time breakdown of a Chamber match is 3, 4 and 5 minute intervals (depending upon the constraints) to open a new pod, so you automatically start off with 12, 16 and 20 minutes to get everyone into the action. I mean, let's look at the breakdown: All information gathered from Wikipedia.org
Survivor Series (2002): Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Chris Jericho, Kane, Triple H and Shawn Michaels fought for 39:20 under Elimination Chamber rules.
SummerSlam (2003): Kevin Nash, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Goldberg and Triple H fought for 19:12 under Elimination Chamber rules.
New Year's Revolution (2005): Edge, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Batista, Randy Orton and Triple H fought for 34:55 under Elimination Chamber rules.
New Year's Revolution (2006): Kurt Angle, Kane, Shawn Michaels, Carlito, Chris Masters and John Cena fought for 28:23 under Elimination Chamber rules.
December to Dismember (2006): CM Punk, Rob Van Dam, Hardcore Holly, Test, The Big Show and Bobby Lashley fought for 24:43 under Extreme Elimination Chamber rules.
With this breakdown, you're looking at 24, 32 and 40 minutes devoted to the two matches, and that's not counting entrance times, match hype vignettes, interviews leading into the match(es), and the celebration time after each match. Then you take into account there's other stuff going on, and this show is looking like the Royal Rumble a show that is built around one themed match that eats up a lot of time, leaving the undercard rushed, or lacking meaning.
It also doesn't help that the undercard is predictable. I, personally, don't think that takes away from the match quality, but for some that does, and for others that always plays a part in the back of their mind when talking about the show in question.
When you hear a TNA fan talking about a WWE show, you always hear the complaint that it's a predictable card, so it has no meaning or value. And the same is applied in the reverse WWE fans complaining about TNA shows being predictable. It's the never ending cycle of bitching, and none of us win.
Chamber Your Thoughts
And sticking to the theme of talking about this show, how about we run some ideas over as to what could happen?
I'm not a big fan of Khali, or Big Daddy V as a matter of fact, WWE is punishing me by having Vis run around without a shirt, leading me to longer think he's a passable talent that finally figured out how to work an OK match but seeing those two in this match makes sense. Seeing Finlay in there doesn't, but you could always bite that it was Vince trying to buy him off and give him a shot at Mania, or get him killed in the process, so little Horny is all alone in the big, scary world. I don't know how they'll play it, seeing as I missed last week's SmackDown along with a series of SmackDown's prior to that, dating back to late October.
Anyway, back to my thoughts here. I also don't see why MVP is in this match, especially seeing as I don't recall him winning any matches, as of late, to warrant the belief he deserves a chance to even win a spot at Mania to take on the World Heavyweight Champion, whomever it may be after Edge and Rey Mysterio battle over the huge chunk of gold covered chocolate. So in my mind, MVP is taking up a slot for someone who has the push, and is more deserving of that slot: Mark Henry.
I already hear the cries and moans about him being a talentless hack, but the man has improved from being a hack. He's now been promoted to a passable talent who has a good grasp of what to do in a match, it's just his opponents don't know how to sell a fucking bear hug, leaving him to look like a shmuck. But besides all of that, Mark is a main event threat because of the run he's been on teaming up with Big Daddy V, destroying talents left and right, and even getting a mini-rub down from Triple H on Raw during H's last chance of entry into the Rumble. Why shouldn't he be in there? For fear that he may ruin this otherwise perfect, and awesome Chamber match that's just going to play house to the Undertaker/Batista saga?
What I don't get is how you book MVP to look strong in this at all, unless he gets to survive one of the giants, when he's in there. Me, personally, I think it would be bad booking to start off with Finlay and MVP, because then you're going to see nothing but drag in the middle as the big behemoths are going to have to sell being intimidating looking within their little confines.
It also doesn't help sell these guys as monsters, as they won't be allowed to break down the pods, like they've done in just about every previous Chamber match. Of course Raw calls dibs on the better looking Chamber match, which means they get to have the most fun with the pods. So instead of seeing Vis and Khali throw some of the rag dolls around, and crashing them through the "bullet proof" glass, the only good way I can see them booking this match is having the two lugs start off, get in an early elimination from one of the two, seed in the two smaller guys, and have them finally get rid of the last of the lummoxes, and then seed us Taker and Batista, who can shine in this match just going at one another. Any other way would lead to teases of destruction, and unless they plan on having Raw's EC toss out the rules and just have everyone scramble for about 30 minutes, it'll only result in more people hating the match.
About the only true kiss of death that could be laid upon SmackDown, here, is if their match gets to start off the card, just to get it out of the way. As if Raw doesn't get enough shine as it is?
Jersey All-Pro Wrestling The Genesis
This Saturday, I'll be attending my first ever JAPW show. I haven't looked at the card, I don't know who'll be there, I just know that, and this is what crazymike1706 told me, LAX and Murder City Machine Guns will be battling it out.
This'll be my first time, ever, watching Chris Sabin and Hernandez, live, while my second time seeing Alex Shelley live, and possibly my third time seeing Homicide live, if my math is correct. That alone is a treat for me, especially seeing Shelley again, a man I believe is highly underutilized, and will be the most influential wrestler of this new generation.
What I hope to take away from this experience is the stark contrast between indy shows ROH's presentation and showcase versus what JAPW has to offer. It should be fun, and I hope that at the end of the night, I don't have to hear from Teddy Hart he's a piss break the whole way through.
Playing Catch-up
Sometimes I wish I knew how to manage my time better. I know, how ironic that I feel it in my interest to voice out that TNA, and ROH need to better learn how to manage their own time tables, while I can't figure out a time table for myself.
I mainly point this out because, after starting to read over Matt Short's The Navigation Log 2.10.08: Japanese Gimmick Palooza, it hit me that I have way too many DVD's to catch up, along with some other things to get to watching (like what's still sitting on my DVR that isn't named "Monk," "Psych," or "Squidbillies").
I really don't fall into the category of a real wrestling fan, despite my cries for this community to open up to more wrestling outside of the media wrestling products, and the "big" third promotion in ROH. I have 4 PWG DVD's that are sitting in my book, ready for viewing, a 2005 collection of TNA pay-per-views to sit through, some Japan stuff I've yet to witness, some tapes I've got to convert to DVD it's probably easier to think of the stuff I have caught up with.
I bring this up not only to fill up space and meet my quota for this shit-slosh of an article that Csonka still manages to allow to see the light of day on this otherwise fabulous site, but because it really gets me thinking as to who, actually, fits my own definition of a true wrestling fan.
It's a superficial definition I came up with, and one that seems to be too unrealistic. I don't know, maybe you can be the judge and decide for yourself: Wrestling Fan: ~ noun
A fan of the wrestling arts who is open minded to any wrestling product regardless of promotion, style or productions.
I'm open minded to it all, but I haven't seen any of it yet so my money is there for these companies to take part in, but I'm certainly not a return customer as I've yet to really see if I'm willing to become such a thing.
Maybe I am a fan by that very definition, regardless of whether I'm a return customer or not, but hell if I can figure it out. All I know is, my head isn't on straight these days, and the last thing I want to do is sit in on a good DVD and completely shit on it just because I'm not in the best of moods to deal with something that I don't think is going to entertain me the way ROH has, in the past and continues to do as such.
Undeniably Final Thoughts The Wrap Up
And this brings me to Undeniable, a pay-per-view I've only bashed in private, and I hope J.D. Dunn sees this, though I know he's too smart to be reading my trashy novel-like articles that I'm probably pulling out of a baboons ass at the moment.
Undeniable was a skippable event. It was the typical ROH show that had its moments, but was underwhelming and, if it were simply a DVD on the ROH website, would be something you could easily afford to miss in order to pick up a better show. I've said the same thing of Respect is Earned, and Manhattan Mayhem II, both shows I was in attendance for, live, and felt didn't really offer me up anything along the lines of fun, and drama that I've seen in previous events I was in attendance for (Steel Cage Warfare, Best in the World, Final Battle 2006, Fifth Year Festival: New York).
The same would almost apply to Rising Above [the next ROH pay-per-view to air this March], except that actually had enough on there to brag about as an overall show the only problem with it was the disorder of the card, leaving the fans completely drained by night's end.
I think several people overrated Manhattan Mayhem II, but then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions, something we all lose sight of when we start taking into account differing views of the same show. I also feel Undeniable catches too much flak from some who hate upon ROH just because it doesn't have a television deal.
I'll say this about Undeniable it was necessary. Not for the context of the storylines, but rather, because it helped to dispel this nonsense rumor floating about that ROH only produces ***** matches at every show. It was necessary to show that ROH is just like any other company and had its own flaws.
I've never claimed it to be perfect Dunn certainly wouldn't go that far to state such a thing, nor would anyone else I know who is a ROH fan, much like TSlay1974. ROH is what it is, a indy promotion on the brink of being something bigger and more revolutionary to the American wrestling fans, but nothing as multi-cultured as ECW was during its hay-day.
And that'll do it for me this week shame I never want to roll with what I've got, much like I did last week. In any case, let's see how much hate mail I can generate for my TNA rant at the top. Until next week, this was a viral dose of something, alright.
I'm not normally one for the negative aspect of the IWC as it all tends to be repetitive, but you've nailed it. TNA, 2 Elimination Chambers... Fuck it.
Posted By: Justin (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 12:47 PM
look up the meaning of transitional champ before attaching it to Orton.
Besides, he was gonna take the belt from Cena anyway, injury or not
Posted By: dAVE!!! (Registered) on February 12, 2008 at 12:53 PM
good article and i want to go see the japw show this weekend but i have to work (sucks being a fulltime student who HAS to work weekends). i was going to take ur challenge and try to follow up on a few JAPW shows. i will say this, and you may recognize me from youtube, but i think a lot of people are confused when TNA says they are an alternative to WWE. i don't think their goal from the start was to be the polar opposite of WWE. i think they fell into that situation due to the lack of well known talent that was available to them in the early days and the popularity of the X-Division. By saying they were an alternative, I think they meant to be just a second major national organization. And their business agenda proves that theory: the decision to immediately do weekly ppvs in order to have episodic tv that would parle them into a network cable tv deal, their transition to doing live monthly 3 hour ppv's soon thereafter, their initial search to find financial backings, their brokering with the NWA to be their flagship company, their constant seeking out of "big name" talent. Once they got the (good) national cable deal (SpikeTV) and the big name stars with charisma like Christian, Sting, and Kurt Angle, then we started seeing the transition from "all about the action" to "storyline driven wrestling entertainment." In short, I think TNA was waiting until they had the right guys to headline the roster to make the move to being an entertainment based company. Had they done so in the first two years, they would have been limited as all there was charismatically was Jeff Jarrett and Raven. It was NECESSARY and the fans pretty much made the decision back then for them, that the X-Division should play a major role. But now you have heavyweights that the fans recognize and see as credible, TNA has to take advantage of that.
Posted By: bighustle (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM
dAVE!! I don't buy that, much like I don't buy the original plan around Eddie Guerrero being he'd become a champion during a time period that the WWE was clearly protecting Batista to get him to main event Mania against Orton - a plan I'm shocked they haven't pulled the trigger on this year.
I can't see the WWE ever wanting to pull the title off of Cena properly outside of a few instances - Edge did it to put some positive heat on Cena, and it worked out well; and RVD was a necessary evil to establish the ECW brand and the ECW World Title.
Oh, and the definition of a transitional champion is a lot bigger than you'd think. I guess I could write about it next week, to really establish it.
Posted By: Jarrod Westerfeld (Registered) on February 12, 2008 at 01:35 PM
Great read this was and again you've hit the nail on the head. TNA is just plain horseshit. Although I have to disagree with you about Russo. Not only does 99% of the shit on TNA have Russo written ALL over it but they've now actually proven it by saying/admitting that 90% is Russo and that leaked script clearly showed the same thing. Sure you might be able to get some good stuff from him if he's got someone to squash his terrible ideas but I'd much rather fire the guy and have people that know how to book a wrestling show. Also you're on the money with WWE aswell seeing as I've lost all interest and have stopped watching altogether. 2 Chambers sounds fun in theory but when you know there's next to no chance in hell of anyone winning EITHER aside from Undertaker and Triple H it kinda makes you think what's the point in even bothering to watch? Even the other title matches are pretty much a lock for who wins each (Edge wont be dropping his title, maybe Orton could overcome Cena somehow but I doubt it, and even if he did Orton/Triple H at Mania isn't appealing at all either) I just can't believe what a predictable and terribly boring run-in this is to Wrestlemania. If I didn't have ROH, NOAH, PWG and stuff like that to enjoy I'd have dropped wrestling altogether by now.
Posted By: Col (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 03:10 PM
I'm pretty excited for the LAX/MCMG match on saturday. I know those four will not disappoint,regardless of the rest of the card. And it is always great to berate Teddy Hart until he smashes you in the face with his wrist tape and Low Ki has to scream at him to go to the back. That's why I really get into JAPW shows, the wrestlers can hear everything you say and it is easy to get in their faces.
Posted By: Bernie (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 04:24 PM
Dave is right,Ortonw as to win the belt from Superman at No mercy anyway injury or not.So get the facts straight,pus its not Orton's fault they've so badly misused him since he's been champ.Shame he's gonna drop it to Superman.
Posted By: Gary (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 07:24 PM
Good article, though I do disagree somewhat.
TNA's biggest problem is that they are lobbing crap at every turn to see if it Jay Lethal as Macho Jr. has worked because of the effort he put into it. I actually talked to him at a house show and he said he loved doing it because Savage is his favorite of all time.
The problem IS Russo and his inability to come up with NEW ideas and NEW characters (Black Reign, Abyss, Mesias etc. And of course Stone Cold Sharkboy). It should be noted that the final say HAS to lay somewhere and that person (or persons) have no real concept of what's going on. I think the ratings increase reflects more of a group of people finding the product but not supporting the PPV's because it isn't compelling tv. But it's a nice, passable way to spend a Thursday evening. Now if the numbers come in up for the last PPV, we can all forget about change.
And really, if they wanted Jim Cornette to book, he would be. Whatever the reason they don't so he isn't. I would love to say that TNA is "better" but it isn't, it's different in the respect that it's different workers and some of us like them. If does point back to the mess WCW became and who knows, maybe it ends too like WCW did.
Whatever the case, we are the minority. If you don't like it, don't watch. And those of us willing to put up with the mess will continue to do so.
Great article though.
Posted By: JT (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 07:53 PM
OK GUYS JARROD HAS DECIDED TO INCLUDE MY EMAIL RESPONSE IN THIS NEXT COLUMN...HERE'S YOUR SPOILER...You know the more and more I read your columns, the more I realize where your coming from. I've met 100 guys just like you and I have worked in the wrestling business for 13 years. I watch all 3 products and I have to say ROH is very entertaining. But they can never reach a national level with such a cut and dry, mundane approach. They had to make significant financial cutbacks recently and it doesn't help that they have no financial backing either or a television show. At least TNA has that and for some reason, in your opinion of course, it's in far worse shape. The only reason you rip into it is because it is the antithesis of everything you hold dear. I know you internet guys. You like Spotty wrestling, no selling, botched moves, no character depth. That's the problem is all these young guys haven't learned how to get themselves over otherwise. So they are killing themselves with no medical insurance instead of doing less with their bodies and developing their character. Plus they get to live for an additional 10 years. It's a work..If it were real at least I could understand why a guy like Bryan Danielson would be at the top. You need to keep telling yourself it's a work. Because your picking fights defending a bunch of guys who just broke in who don't have a clue. Those ROH guys need to watch old WCCW tapes and UWF tapes and really understand ring psychology. They do ten million bumps and moves with no time for the audience to even register what exactly they've seen. Since your such an expert at booking, you should spend next week figuring out a column on how you would book the following week's show. I want this to be an experiment. This way I could either say to my former employees "this kid's been paying attention" or more likely "this kid is some smark that feels he's the smartest guy in the room" as we laugh at your expense.
Posted By: skawolf19 (Guest) on February 12, 2008 at 09:43 PM
fair enough.I await next week with interest
Posted By: dAVE!!! (Registered) on February 13, 2008 at 05:45 AM
you are just a ROH fan who hates TNA,well let me tell you,TNA atleast gets more buys than your stupid ROH which 90 percent wresling fans never even heard of.Stop calling TNA a poor company because i just went to JAMES STORM'S MYSPACE AND HIS ANNUAL INCOME IS 250000 DOLLARS AND A POOR COMPANY CANNOT AFFORD THAT.STOP YOUR LIES JAROD,I HATE YOUR RANTS.
Posted By: amit s (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 06:50 AM
skawolf19 you have no idea what you're talking about. Does Bryan Danielson do loads of spots, no selling and has no idea about ring psychology? DOES HE FUCK! Have you ever seen ANY of his matches? Neither does Nigel McGuiness, Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, Claudio Castagnoli, Takeshi Morishimia (technically NOAH but wrestles often for ROH so I'll use him here) and SEVERAL other regular ROH wrestlers. I'd advise you actually try you know WATCHING a bit of ROH before coming in here and trying to run them down when they're actually doing what the other companies should be doing, which is WRESTLING not shitty entertainment and ridiculous attempts at comedy. Sure there's people and matches in ROH with a lot of spots but that's not what it's all about for everyone by far. ROH IS WRESTLING in this day and age, not that shit on TV called TNA or WWE. How anyone can think any different is beyond me. If you like shitty soap opera with next to no wrestling thrown in as an afterthought then that's fine, watch all you like, but don't try to tell me TNA and WWE have any clue what wrestling is about and ROH need to do more because you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. ROH is not and has never been mundane and is easily the best example of actual wrestling available.
Posted By: Col (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 06:55 AM
Yeah Skawolf, you have no idea what you are talking about. Especially considering you have 13 years in the buisness. C'mon guys. Ska makes a GREAT point.
Do something constructive...
Personally I would like to see that show turn a different direction by using some of the current storylines.
Take Joe and make him put together a "stable" of TNA guys out to take back their sport. Let him recruit AJ(who goes back to being more than filler), Chris Daniels, the Guns and let's say Matt Morgan to go after the Angles, Bookers, etc. Sorta like the "New Blood" angle except these guys kick more @$$ than the group in WCW. Let them lay out Nash, Angle, Booker, Christian, and the Dudleys. It's not a grand brand new idea, but it's a start.
Posted By: JT (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM
I want to chime in as someone who is definately not an ROHbot, as I've never seen ROH outside of a couple times on youtube. I barely watch RAW, I grew tired of it long ago. I tuned back in when Jericho came back, but now that he has been pushed back down to midcard hell and superman is back, I don't care. I watch ECW a little, and I chek the spoilers for Smackdown and Impact, if I see something good I'll watch, otherwise I don't care. Like I watched Smackdown last week (I think) when the main event was Rey & Punk vs Edge & Chavo. I watched Impact to see Angle vs Tomko, and last week to see Christian vs AJ, but after the Tomko turn at the PPV, I really don't care. So Tomko will be an Angle lackey? And he will turn on him in what, 2-3 months? Meanwhile, Joe looks like an asshole, AJ is a schmuck, Daniels is going nowhere as Curryman, MCMG and LAX should both be vying for the tag titles, but who do we get, BG James and Bullet Bob. Oh, and we get Angle in 10 segments a night. I will say though, I like Booker T and Rhoode fighting. Otherwise, eh I have just lost interest. I used to order TNA ppvs every month, and I haven't order one in a good 6-8 months. You know, wrsetlers usually complain that unless you have been in a ring, you don't know what you are talking about. I say BS, I can watch a movie and decide if I like it and I never directed a movie. I can watch a football game and determine weather it was shitty or not, with my only football experience being backyard football 15 years ago. I can figure out what music sucks and I've never been in a band. And you know what, I can watch a wrestling show and tell you it sucks without ever stepping in a ring. And lately, TNA has sucked, and so has WWE.
Posted By: DC (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 01:39 PM
The sad part is, now everyone who predicted Undertaker to win the EC is going to be right, and those who predicted Jeff Hardy, months in advanced when the poster was leaked onto the internet, is going to be sorely saddened by the harsh reality of Triple Conan, and his mighty He-Man like power.
I got a good laugh from this paragraph alone, especially since it's true. I see Jeff Hardy putting on a great performance in the chamber, only to be buried (all the way to the very last of his rainbow colored hair) by Triple Conan. Which is sickening.
And even when you TRY to tell people about the negatives of Triple H, you'd hear:
"He's over and he sells." - I'll give them that he's over, but sell? No.
"He hasn't had a decent title run since 2005." UH, weren't we complaining about the numerous title reigns he had around 2002 - 2005? Besides, he has 11 title reigns, so why would you wanna see a 12th one with him burying people left and right?
Or even BETTER, that he put over people. With the exception of Boreton and Batista, who else has Triple H put over? I may be rusty with the term "putting someone over" but I know for a fact that it doesn't mean doing the job to guys WHO WERE ALREADY OVER to begin with (I.E: John Cena and Bill Goldberg).
Oh well, might as well expect a 12th title reign for the Burier HHH and him holding that belt for at least 9 months, then people HOPEFULLY get smacked with the harsh reality of his politics..........when he buries someone that they like, such as Mr. "Why Did I Claim Not To Take Steroids, Only To Be Suspended For Using Them and Ruining a Possible Main Event Push" Kennedy?
Posted By: lightning116 (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 02:14 PM
You all continue to amaze me. I'm the one that doesn't know anything while you guys know it all even if you haven't stepped foot into a production meeting. This is good stuff. Thanks guys.
Posted By: skawolf19 (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 04:23 PM
Thank God you all are booking my show, I'd be flat broke.
Posted By: skawolf19 (Guest) on February 13, 2008 at 04:27 PM
amit s, and exactly how many dates does Storm work to get that pay? How many other promotions does he work for to retain such a salary? I can already tell you he's not getting that from TNA alone.
Besides, what kind of accomplishment is it for TNA to get more buyrates than a indy company that doesn't have a nationally syndicated television show? Because as far as I know, a promotion that has national exposure on television should automatically beat out any endeavors of a promotion that doesn't. It's simple LOGIC.
Maybe you should try it sometime.
Posted By: Jarrod Westerfeld (Registered) on February 14, 2008 at 03:33 AM
This is to Skawolf19 if he is still reading. You know your attitude is the same as a lot of other INDY promoters out there, Honestly you sound like an NWA promoter. You say that ROH is to spot happy yet I would imagine you would sign just about anyone on there roster to one of your shows in a heartbeat? Your quick to say that ROH will never be put on a wide scale audience yet I would ask what promotion do you run and have any of us ever heard of it. You talk about guys not being over or know how to put themselves over so I would ask how many guys do you use regularly that you have that can do that? That is a problem in the Business as a whole not just ROH or anywhere else.
Let me ask you something which brings in more people in your area the Local MMA promotions or yours I would bet to say its the MMA guys that do. If you are competing with them then you have to offer something that is entertaining that people will pay for and like it or not in Pro wrestling what people want to see is the new Hybrid style of Japanese/Lucha Libra/American Styles. I guess your telling me even though that is what people want to see that thats not what you book?
Have any of us ran our own promotions? Probably not but that don't mean we don't understand the business either. Oh and would you care to explain how you can defend TNA's Business when they fail so miserably at House shows. Something you as a promoter know first hand are so important. House shows numbers show just how well are you are doing and TNA's are horrible as there are Indy's, most of which a lot of people have not heard of, that average better house shows than TNA does.
Jarrod knows his stuff so don't take things our of context as I can tell you from first hand that the very things you brought up as bad points about the business as a whole are things he sees are problems too. Now stop being the dumb Promoter that is to stubborn to realize that fans understand the business enough today to bring up valid points that shouldn't be ignored just because they have never been in the business as that is one of the big problems with the business today as to many are resentful that the fans know "To much" and feel like they can't work the fans because the old tricks don't work. Yet those same fans still enjoy those old tricks just not in the same ways as they once did.
Posted By: Truthslayer (Registered) on February 14, 2008 at 04:15 AM
And what exactly does a NWA promoter sound like? I'd like to know. Since your such an expert on these people like you know them personally. Every IWC "expert" knows it all. Please, you received your education from a dirtsheet. That's not exactly learning the business. I know Gabe, and I've told him how I feel about his product. I like it a lot in fact. I just see the problem stemming from lack of wrestling school preparation and too much emphasis on perfecting 100 moves and trying to queeze them in all in a 7 minute match. I like ROH a lot but they need to hide the negatives. I tell my guys more time should be spent on selling each move and telling a story. You have to give people drama because psychology is the key to it all. I wouldn't expect you guys to know this. TNA has some major holes. but they have a little more money to play with. Panda is a huge asset for them because they have the financial backing. ROH doesn't. TNA isn't very good at hiding their negatives either. It's pretty clear the storytelling is confusing. But at least they have attempted to bring characters development into the forefront. We cannot emphasize wrestling too much, we would lose money. The national audience wants entertainment. WWE is way ahead of the game. They have a whole entire floor in their stamford office dedicated to just to producing video montages. If ROH gets the financial backing and if the wrestler's spent more time developing their character, they would leave TNA in the dust. Gabe is a great booker. It's the wrestlers that need to help him get this thing off the ground and on TV. Whereas, in TNA...the wrestler's aren't the problem. It's the booking that is. This kid Jarrod does understand that. But he tries to make people believe that ROH is the mecca of this business and it's simply not. It's a niche company.
Posted By: skawolf19 (Guest) on February 14, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Want the bottom line? NONE of us has any say in any of this so we can keep watching or turn the channel. It's just fun to bash one company and praise the other - as much as loving one football team and hating another one. How many people were rooting against NE in the Super Bowl and claiming they sucked? But statistically, Brady had the best year EVER for a quarterback. So "suckness" is relative. Cant we all just agree to disagree?
Besides, it's Valentine's Day. Can we just get some love going up in dis beee atch!
Posted By: JT (Guest) on February 14, 2008 at 04:17 PM
JT, not to burst your bubble, but I don't indulge in bashing TNA. It's not a hobby of mine, because it's stressful, and painful to see a promotion that has the best roster in the industry - and I mean this, not just in America, but the world over - squander its talents by making mistakes that could be fixed easily by utilizing what they have and putting their big brains to work, for a change.
Ultimately, my stance is we are the fans - we are the judges of the products at the end of the day, because it's our money that's going into these promotions to encourage them to continue making these products. We're the judges, not those within the industry, because they're too close to it and can't see what appeals to us - we know what appeals to us because we're the collective hive minds that come to terms, in a unison voice, to buy the product or not. This is something "skawolf" doesn't understand about my argument, and in his zealous actions to state I'm wrong, and attempt to prove I'm wrong, he took up the pretentious and presumptuous stance of attacking my character, acting as if he knows me, and what it is I like.
And during this whole time, at no point did I praise ROH as this great company that was the mecca of wrestling - I rarely take up the stance to bash ROH, or voice out heavily against their flaws because I'm too busy paying attention to the actual, televised alternative in TNA. I'm paying too much attention to what TNA should do to fix itself because that seems more important, because they don't want to wait, nor do their fans. ROH can take all the time in the world, build up steadily and bide for time, whereas TNA is on a clock, and has to start turning a profit before Panda Energy loses its patience with this money sucking vacuum. Perhaps I could take more time out to voice out what I don't like about ROH, but for the time being, I think my time should be spent more on trying to get TNA's fans to help institute change within their favored promotion.
Posted By: Jarrod Westerfeld (Registered) on February 15, 2008 at 07:07 AM
Cancelled in Canada and 19 buys on the last PPV, that's all I'm going to say. Now you tell me who has the financial problems.
Posted By: skawolf19 (Guest) on February 15, 2008 at 11:33 AM
"skawolf19", I believe it would be the shitty indy company that's relying on using ROH "spot monkeys" on their cards, Maryland Championship Wrestling.
Wake me when you have something of use to say, okay?
Posted By: Jarrod Westerfeld (Registered) on February 15, 2008 at 03:46 PM
skawolf, and a company with a large very loyal fan base that buys a ton of DVD's and sells massive amounts of tickets in other areas. What's TNA selling these days? TNA are a televised company with money, advertising and a wealth of talent, yet they do indy numbers at best. Hell Against All Odds was beyond embarrassing for ticket sales. Funnily enough ROH is an indy fed with much less than TNA have at their disposal, and I'd argue with anyone that says TNA is outselling ROH on a regular basis, if at all. It's amusing and ridiculous to see any person that marks for WWE and/or TNA (TNA especially with their woeful numbers) and has an obvious ROH vendetta, jump all over this Canada PPV shit like the whole company is going under or something. It's complete bullshit and an easy and misguided insult/accusation for the small minded "wrestling fan" (maybe I should use sports entertainment under the circumstances huh?) who doesn't bother to study the facts seeing as they wont support your views.
Posted By: Col (Guest) on February 15, 2008 at 04:55 PM
I don't steal from ROH. I find my "spotmonkeys" elsewhere. By the by, I don't wish that they go under COL, I want them to suceed. It's just not my style that I promote. You either like entertainment or pure wrestling. I'm trying to fall somewhere in between. God, it's like being bombarded by two ex-girlfriends.
Posted By: skawolf19 (Guest) on February 16, 2008 at 09:52 AM
Boyd your wasting your time. I always tell Jarrod to go get laid instead of spending time yelling at other marks, but he won't listen.
Posted By: Greg (Guest) on February 16, 2008 at 09:54 AM
now Greg, let's not take the insulting road. when you choose to read a wrestling column, u are choosing to embark on a conversation where people are passionate about what they read, write, and comment on. yes, we know some people should be doing more constructive things with their lives, but you are just as guilty of having "no life" as jarod is. that's not a shot at anyone, but for the sake of preserving a forum where fans can interact and share their educated thoughts on the subject of wrestling, let's try to keep this pot-shot free and move forward in our debates
Posted By: bighustle (Guest) on February 16, 2008 at 12:48 PM
great read you are speaking for a lot of fans with respects to TNA AND WWE i would love to enjoy both programs and when they put on great shows we will buy there ppv
Posted By: mikie1973 (Registered) on February 17, 2008 at 01:01 PM
bighustle. I'm married with a house and have a job with an NFL affiliate. I can't pick out anything in this that screams "no life". I get on this site 3 times a week after work to laugh at the comments made by these smarks. These guys will never be respected for anything they say specifically because it's always aimed at killing objectivity. They want to bash everything they see and not offer up the reason they are doing so with any facts. This kid Jarrod wrote a column about Barry Bonds without even reading anything that was written in "game of shadows". So he's even made himself out to look like a reprobate even with subjects outside of wrestling. But in wrestling, these smarks are making such a big deal out of something that's a work. I'll never understand how passion for something pre-determined and showy turned so real and negative.
Posted By: Greg (Guest) on February 18, 2008 at 08:48 PM
