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 411mania » Wrestling » Columns
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The Top Ten 2.19.08: Overrated Matches
Posted by Julian Williams on 02.19.2008



Good day people and welcome back to another edition of the most overrated column in the entire IWC, The Top Ten. This week we're going to look back at The Top Ten most overrated matches and there were many to choose from, but I think I compiled a definitive list of some truly overrated (at least in my view) matches. Ok, enough small talk, it's business time.

Julian's Unwanted and Unnecessary PPV in Review: The No Way Out Edition


Chavo Guerrero def. CM Punk to retain the ECW Championship
This was a pretty decent, albeit short, opener. I like the fact that Chavo got the clean win because he needed to look strong after weeks of being Punk's personal bitch. I really wish that they wouldn't rape the ECW Title matches for time on PPV's because I think with 15 minutes, these guys could give us a really great match. But we'll just have to settle for another solid encounter between these two.
Match Rating: **1/2

The Undertaker wins The Smackdown Elimination Chamber
This match exceeded my expectations because the ‘E was smart enough to get rid of the two lugs (Khali and BDV) quickly and have the focus of the match on Batista and The Undertaker. Those two, along with Finlay and MVP, put on one hell of a show. ‘Taker throwing MVP off the top of the pod was insane, as well as when he chokeslammed Finlay on the STEEEEL. The final few moments with Batista and ‘Taker were pure gold and ‘Taker's counter into the Tombstone is one of the best that I've ever seen. Fantastic match that I believe surprised many people.
Match Rating: ***3/4

Ric Flair def. Mr. Kennedy
This match was short, to the point and actually pretty decent. I don't like them jobbing out Kennedy in such a short time span because even though it makes Flair look strong heading to ‘Mania, it makes Kennedy look weak. Hopefully they can rebuild Kennedy heading into ‘Mania because they send mixed signals with him so the fans don't know whether to take him seriously or not. One moment he's beating Shawn Michaels cleanly and the next, he's losing cleanly to Ric Flair in 7 minutes. Dammit WWE, give us a reason to care about Kennedy!
Match Rating: **

Edge def. Rey Mysterio to retain the World Heavyweigh Championship
I think we all knew that this was going to be a short match due to Rey's injury so it's no surprise that this one was done in less than 6 minutes. It's a shame because this match looked like the early portions of what could have been a great match, but Rey got put away quickly with the spear. Short and inoffensive, you can't really hate on the match because they did the best they could do given Rey's injury.
Match Rating: *1/2

The Big Show returns and confronts Floyd Mayweather
This segment was pure gold. Big Show makes his return and the fans were definitely happy to see him. He started off nice enough, but soon the mean side of Show took over as he felt that Rey being attended to at ringside was taking away from his glorious return. So he goozled Rey and began taunting Rey's friend, Mayweather, to come help him. Mayweather was held out by his entourage, but when Show went to chokeslam Rey, Mayweather had seen enough and rushed the ring to confront Show. You could tell by the fans reaction that this was a huge deal and could definitely contribute to ‘Mania's buyrate. Big Show taunted the much smaller Mayweather and gave Mayweather a free shot and Floyd proceeded to bust Show wide THE FUCK open! He legitimately broke Show's nose and whether it was intentional or not, it added greatly to the segment as the image of a pissed off Show spitting out blood is an awesome one to be used in future video packages. This was good shit here people and hopefully they can follow it up with a compelling feud that can garner them some mainstream attention.
Segment Rating: *****

John Cena def. Randy Orton by DQ
I know a lot of people that didn't like the DQ ending, but I for one LOVED it. It fit perfectly with Orton's character because he tried every conceivable way to get out of the match with his title, including attempting to be counted out and trying to have Cena get counted out. Once he realized that Cena wasn't going away that easily and his title ws in jeopardy, he slapped the shit out of the ref to get the DQ loss but retain his title. This helps set up the much rumored Triple Threat Match at ‘Mania because Cena can claim that Orton purposely got himself DQ'd and he deserves another title shot. SMELL THE INTRIGUE!!!
Match Rating: ***1/2

Triple H wins the RAW Elimination Chamber
This was some good shit right here and I think it's the second best Elimination Chamber in history, right behind the first one. It started off excellently with Jericho and HBK starting off with some great wrestling sequences. Jericho's counter to HBK's elbow drop by putting up the knees was SWEEEET! I think everyone knew it was going to come down to Jeff Hardy and Triple H and that's exactly what we got. It took a long time for someone to get eliminated but once JBL got eliminated, the eliminations came fast and furious. The star of the match I felt was Umaga who not only dominated the majority of the match, but hit that sick double Samoan Drop on Jericho and Michaels and gave Jericho the running Ass Bump through the (alleged) bulletproof glass. The final few moments with Jeff and HHH were fantastic and when Jeff kicked out of The Pedigree, I foolishly started to think he might pull it off. Alas, it was The Game's night and he will now be heading to ‘Mania.
Match Rating: ****

Overall Show Thoughts
I haven't ordered a WWE PPV in a while so I was pleasantly surprised when I ordered this one because it surpassed my expectations. Both Elimination Chamber matches were great, the Cena/Orton match was good stuff, the Show/Mayweather confrontation was gold and everything else was good. There seriously wasn't anything bad on this show, everything ranged from solid to great. Definitely check it out if you haven't yet, it'll be worth your time.
Show Rating: 8 (out of 10)

The Top Ten Overrated Matches


10) Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk (Joe vs. Punk II)
Don't get me wrong, this was a very good match and perhaps one of the better hour long matches that I've ever seen, but this match suffers from a case of having people hype it up SO much that you couldn't help but be disappointed with the match. I mean the match would have to be FLAWLESS for the way that people hyped it up and this match certainly was not flawless. Freakin' Dave Meltzer, who is extremely stingy when giving out star ratings, gave this match 5 stars. So needless to say, I was looking forward to seeing one of the best matches I've ever seen in my life and instead I got a very good match, but certainly not up to the level that many people had put it on. If I had heard nothing about this match and just saw it without hearing any previous opinions, I might have enjoyed it more. But seeing how it was placed on such a high pedestal, I couldn't help but feel that this match was overrated. If you've never seen it, you should definitely check it out because it is a fantastic match, but it just isn't the classic that most people tried to make it out to be.

9) Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy (Armageddon '07)
Was this a huge upset and great moment? Yes. Was it a fantastic match? Not so much. I didn't get to watch Armageddon live, so when the reviews started pouring in about how great this match was, I couldn't wait to see it. I was sorely disappointed because although it was a pretty good match, it definitely wasn't the must-see, incredible match that some folks made it out to be. I do think that it was a huge win in the career of Jeff Hardy and that the match will probably be looked back as the starting point for Jeff Hardy's road to the WWE Title, but it just isn't that great. Good match, but not an all-time classic.

8) Pat Patterson vs. Sgt. Slaughter (MSG, 5/4/81)
This was perhaps the bloodiest match I've ever seen, but it certainly wasn't one of the greatest. I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in the amount of bloodshed and the fantastic crowd that they don't realize that this wasn't that great of a match. It was very good, but it's not the all-time classic that many people tout it as. Honestly the only thing I really remember from the match is Sgt. Slaughter's crimson mask and Patterson's insanely tight I Love NY shirt. When those are the most memorable parts of a match, that doesn't equate to a classic.

7) The Rock vs. Hollywood Hogan (Wrestlemania 18)
Before you leave words of hatred in the Comments section, hear me out. This match featured one of the hottest crowds I've EVER seen and also had one of the biggest mark out moments when Hogan began Hulking Up for the first time in a WWE ring after 9 years. But mark out moments aside, this wasn't a very good match. The Rock got a much better match out of Hogan than I expected, but it still wasn't the classic that some people say it is. This is a match all about the crowd reaction and marking out like a fifth grader, but as an actual match, it isn't anything to write home about. It's more of a great moment rather than a great match.

6) Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannety (Raw, 7/19/93)
When people talk about the best matches of 1993, this is usually one of the first matches brought up and I never understood why. It's a pretty good match, but it definitely isn't the awesome spectacle that some describe it as. I actually prefer their two other matches in 1993, The Royal Rumble match and the match on 5/17. Those matches were a lot more fast paced and exciting while this one was dull in spots. I know people who love this match and call it one of the greatest matches ever, but I just don't think that much of it. It's definitely a good match, but I don't believe it's as good as the other encounters that these two men had.

5) Sabu vs. Abyss (Turning Point '05)
This was the first Barbed Wire Massacre in TNA and even though it was MEGA bloody, it wasn't that great of a match. I think the fact that this was the first mainstream Barbed Wire match since the days of ECW, a lot of people overhyped it at the time because in retrospect it was more of a bloody spectacle than a great match. Now some might argue that the match was SUPPOSE to be a bloody spectacle and I would agree with them on that, but for people to give it 5 stars and call it one of the best matches in TNA history is pretty ludicrous. Good match with a lot of cringe-inducing moments, but it isn't the classic affair that some people portrayed it as.

4) Great Sasuke vs. Taka Michinoku (Raw, 7/7/97)
This two men tore up the house at Canadian Stampede and had a rematch that next night on Raw which some people, even the revered Scott Keith, called even better than the CS match. Methinks? (Sorry Meehan) Not so much. It was a good match that was near the quality of the CS match, but it certainly wasn't better than it. That would be like saying that any other Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mystreio match was better than their Halloween Havoc '97 match. That simply isn't the case. Sure they had a bunch of other great matches after that, but they weren't as good as that match. That's exactly the case with this match. A very good match, no doubt, but just not as good as the near classic they had at Canadian Stampede.

3) Don Muraco vs. Jimmy Snuka (MSG, 10/17/93)
This match has achieved legendary status due to The Superfly coming off the top rope with the splash, but people seem to forget that the match before that moment wasn't a particularly great one. It was pretty slow and plodding and to me, it didn't really feel like a match to resolve a blood feud. It was decent enough, but people seem to place this match on a pedestal due to the splash and the funny thing is that the splash happened after the match was already over! So many people rate this match highly due to a moment that didn't even happen in the actual match. The match between Snuka and Bob Backlund where Snuka actually missed the splash from the top of the cage is a much better match, but people remember this one more due to the splash on Muraco. Snuka coming off the cage is a legendary moment that will be remembered throughout the history of the WWE, but I don't think that anybody will look back at the actual match that fondly.


2) Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage (Wrestlemania 5)
This was the match where the Mega Powers EXPLODED and while it was a pretty good match, it definitely isn't the classic that some try to proclaim it is. I think the reason people overhype this match is because this was one of Hogan's first really good matches because before this he was mainly facing lugs like King Kong Bundy and Andre The Giant (in the latter stages of his career). So it was surprising to see such a good Hogan match, but it definitely wasn't as phenomenal as some portrayed it to be. Also, I'm still kind of bitter that Macho Man lost because I was a HUGE Macho Man fan as a kid and Hogan was pushing up on his lady dammit! Sorry, repressed childhood thoughts there for a moment.

1) Jeff Hardy vs. The Undertaker (Raw, 7/1/02)
This is BY FAR the most overrated match that I've ever seen. Some people have called it one of the greatest ladder matches ever and one of the best matches in Raw's history and in my view, it was neither. Was it a good ladder match? Definitely. But it wasn't a remarkable classic like some tend to classify it as. More than anything, I remember JR's phenomenal commentary which made me actually think for a second that Jeff could pull off the major upset. The match itself was pretty sloppy in places and certainly not one of the best ladder matches ever. It wasn't a bad match by any means, but when people talk about how fantastic this match is, I cant help but disagree. This match was more a compelling story of an underdog trying to win the title and I think that's why its remembered so fondly, but it just isn't that great of a match.

Drive-By Pimpin'


Check out all these great columns by my 411 brethren:

-Andy Clark's "Shimmy"
-Ari's "Column Of Honor"
-Sean, Alex and David's "Triple Threat"
-Bayani's "Truth B Told"
-Weyer's "Shining The Spotlight"
-Byers' "Cheap Wrestling for Cheap People"
-Larry and Geoff's "4R's"
-Fact Or Fiction
-Sat and Uncle Trunx's "High Road/Low Road"
-Phill Feltham's "Quick Talkdown"
-Sarnecky's "Piledriver Report"
-Slimmer's News Report
-Hidden Highlights
-Carapola's "That Was Then" and "Friendly Competition"
-The Fink's Payload
-Gamble's "Just 'Spose"
-Cook's "Ask 411"
-Wilcox's "Thoughts From The Top Rope"
-Meehan's "Meethinks"
-Sforcina's "Evolution Schematic"
-Prag's "In Defense Of?."
-Wrestlers of the Week
-Randle's "Wrestling News Experience"
-Linkous' "Why I Love Wrestling"
-Double M's Rasslin Report
-News To Start Your Weekend
-Dunn's Rawtopsy, Smackdown Breakdown, & ECW eXperience
-Your News, Larry's Views
-Zac Calhoun's "The Ripple Effect"
-Joe Estee's "Keys To The Game"
-Halden's "You're An Idiot And Here's Why"
-Buy......OR SELL!!
-Chris Lansdell "The Way I C It"
-Alex Barcham's "Hitting Below The Beltway"
-T.G. Corke's "The Seventh Dimension"
-Magnus Donaldson's "Cut To The Crap"
-Tim Haught's "Pro Wrestling Pundit"
-William Bumgarner's "What Were They Thinking?"
-Jarrod Westerfield's "Viral Dose Of Reality"

The Sign-Off


That's all I got this week people. But be sure to leave your comments and come back next week when the topic will be The Top Ten Underappreciated Matches. Until then, go wash your ass!


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Comments (118)

 
You forgot about John Cena vs. HBK from 4/23. It was so dull and boring.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 10:21 AM

 
 
couldn,t disagree more with the taker v hardy match...... I loved it from opening to close as do thousands of others. But like you say its your opinion, which is why these type of columns are all subjective

Posted By: midas (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 10:24 AM

 
 
No Comment

Posted By: Guest#5862 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:00 AM

 
 
Joe-Punk II is overrated? And Cena-HBK isn't?!

Posted By: Guest#7202 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:01 AM

 
 
How is Joe/Kobashi not on the list?

Posted By: CMG (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:03 AM

 
 
Most overrated match I'VE ever seen was Joe/Kobashi. To this day, I don't understand the acclaim.

Posted By: T.G. Corke (Registered)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:06 AM

 
 
What about Cena/Orton at summerslam.

Posted By: Mr1700 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:13 AM

 
 
Don't you think that story-telling and build sometimes mean more than actual wrestling involved. If Jeff Hardy and Jim Ross made you believe that Jeff could actually win, then doesn't that count for something? i think you included some of these just to buck teh trend and be contrary. Well, well done, but the column itself is pretty lackluster.

Posted By: Crow (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:30 AM

 
 
Back with a Vengenance! Now this is the Top 10 I wanna see! Every match on this list is severely overrated. Great list. Keep it up!

Posted By: The Fuj (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:38 AM

 
 
You forgot about HBK vs. Cena from the 4/23/07 Raw.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:42 AM

 
 
most overrated column? this one.

Posted By: daniel (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:42 AM

 
 
Interesting. Very interesting. I think a lot of the problems come from things being overhyped, and you were dissapointed by them. Some of them deserve the points they get. Me? I look for storytelling. I get into it. Wrestling's a TV show to me. Hence, I think Hardy/Taker deserves it's hype despite my utter hatred for Jeff.

Posted By: Anthony (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:49 AM

 
 
you forgot:

Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart at WM13...Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart at WM12...Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart at WM10 and SummerSlam '94...Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels at WM20...Michaels and Stone Cold vs. Owen Hart and the British Bulldog from RAW...and finally, ANY John Cena match that gets praised


Posted By: Guest#1066 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:51 AM

 
 
you forgot to include joe vs kobashi

Posted By: kapengmabula (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:59 AM

 
 
That Hardy vs Taker ladder match was mildly entertaining at best. I remember watching it w/ some friends and saying as the match was winding down "Taker is going to chokeslam Jeff off the ladder to win." Next thing you know, chokeslame, match over. At no point did I think Jeff was going to win, at no point was I on the edge of my seat. This is one of my least favorite wwf/wwe ladder matches in recent memory

Posted By: Jalen (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:00 PM

 
 
A list like this will create much controversy, so while it's easy to disagree with some of the choices, I wholeheartedly agree on your number 1 choice. I hate that match. For some reason, it's become this near legendary ladder match. And you're right, the compelling nature of the underdog story is what carried it, but only for the last 3-4 minutes of the match. The rest of the match was crap, especially when Taker was in control, throwing a punch here and a kick there basically.

Posted By: Mike P. (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:01 PM

 
 
totally agree on the hardy/taker match. people forget that this was during the time jeff was more into drugs than his career. he was very pale and emaciated. JR did some of his best commentary work during match which made it bigger than it was.

Posted By: jd (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:03 PM

 
 
I think that HBK & Steve Austin vs. Owen Hart and British Bulldog was overrated. Then again, I was watching it on Youtube, and it was divided into parts and the other parts weren't in the sidebar, so I had to search to the point where I forgot a lot of the stuff that happened in the match.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:15 PM

 
 
For some of the matches on the list, the story behind the match means as much or more than the match itself. Maybe a more apropos list would have been "Matches that don't hold up today."

Posted By: Jeremy (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:18 PM

 
 
The Hart Vs HBK Iron man match should be on here. I always hated the no falls after an hour and the too short "Sudden Death".

I'll also throw in the 4/23 Cena Vs HBK. It had an excellent ending and it was neat to see an hour match on free TV, but it was nontitle and very plodding for the first half.


Posted By: Scotty Flamingo (Registered)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:20 PM

 
 
The reason that Joe vs. Punk II got so much praise is because even with a predictable ending (most knew it would be a 60:00 draw) those two built that crowd tremendously, leading to an outstanding several minutes that had the crowd on the edges of their seats, along with excellent psychology from Punk's part.

Posted By: Crystal Meth Punk (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:25 PM

 
 
I would have to say that HHH vs. Randy Orton from No Mercy should be on the list. Both of them.

Posted By: Nathyn a.k.a. Gimus (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:39 PM

 
 
Heck, I'm just going to say it. HBK vs. Bret Hart Iron Man Match should also be on this list.

Posted By: Nathyn a.k.a. Gimus (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:46 PM

 
 
"Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart at WM13...Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart at WM12...Owen
Hart vs. Bret Hart at WM10 and SummerSlam '94...Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs.
Shawn Michaels at WM20...Michaels and Stone Cold vs. Owen Hart and the British
Bulldog from RAW...and finally, ANY John Cena match that gets praised"

YOU SUCK!

How can anyone think that Bret/Owen is underrated? Or the Triple Threat at Mania 20. Those two matches are two of the greatest matches ever, and if you don't realise it then, in the words of Csonka, YOU ARE NO FAN!

Owen/Bulldog is the best free TV match not including Ric Flair.

So what's your favourite match, Goldberg vs The Rock?


Posted By: Guest#8781 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:53 PM

 
 
It's funny you put Hogan/Savage on the list. My friend told me to watch it, because Hogan does NOTHING! It was all Savage... If you thought Michaels carried Hogan at SS '05... watch this match. My pick for overrated match that didn't make the Top 10 on this list is TLC Vegas. I know most of the columnists don't think it was awesome, but my friends and fans of WWE rave about it. Definitely overrated.

Posted By: Zach K. (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 12:59 PM

 
 
Perfect vs. Flair (Loser leaves town) is not a good match. They are both blown up and blowing spots the entire match. I have a copy from the original Raw broadcast and I think the clipping they did for the Best of Raw DVD made the match look better.

Owen vs. Bulldog from Raw Germany gets overly praised. It's a decent match, but nowhere near the ***** that people are handing it today.

To complete the circle, Perfect vs. Blue Blazer from WM V. That match is a 5 minute squash and I now see people calling it a classic.

I used to think that the 2004 rumble was overrated until it was erased from everyone's memory.


Posted By: Eric von Erich (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:11 PM

 
 
i think the reason the taker hardy ladder match gets so much praise is due to the ending, when taker raises jeff's hand it was kinda unexpected.

as far as people knocking hbk vs cena from Raw, i was at that match at the atmosphere was electric, i think i lot of ppl who say it was boring or it sucked say it coz they either hate to praise anything Cena is involved in or they havent got the attention spam to watch the same match for one hour. id like to add, i think that of some ppl, not everyone. before you all get on the defensive


Posted By: iamaguest (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:19 PM

 
 
I definitely agree that Joe vs. Punk II is highly overrated. I actually place it as much worse than their first encounter, since we basically see a retread with little added from their World Title Classic match. They alter their strategies a bit, but Punk still goes for fifty billion headlocks- and actually LOSES the cool rope-a-dope aspect of his strategy. The real disappointment, however, was the finish. The lack of commentary really harmed it, as having someone shout SUPERPLEX! or SHINING WIZARD! and count along with the audience really sells the possible finish. In Joe vs. Punk I, I really believed there might be a last-minute finish. At II, you kinda had the lurking anticipation that this was going to go to time, and everything they did for the last five minutes or so reinforced that: they'd jockey for position, they'd hit big top rope moves, but everything was so slow and they were so worn out by then that nothing came across as a credible finish.

Posted By: Ange (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:22 PM

 
 
You know Daniel, I made bashing "The Top 10" cool. Please stop riding my coattails.

Posted By: The Fuj (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:28 PM

 
 
wat bout cena! you didnt put none of his matches up! dodie dodie doe.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:34 PM

 
 
Hogan vs. Rock from Wrestlemania was OVERRATED?!?!?!?!?

What a load of crap.

A. It marked the return of Hulk Hogan, after being screwed over by Vince Russo, getting major pops in Northern cities for weeks and Canada welcomed him as if "god" had landed.

2. It was a well booked encounter & brawl, based on Hogan's limitations. Having Hogan work as a heel (to face pop reactios) helped the match compared to the one they did a year later that didn't work.

C. It was the last time (outside of the gravy train 2005-06 run) that Hogan was booked as a serious contender to anything. He kicked out of a real finisher to Hulk Up and it didn't take a piss ant finisher for him to lose. Hogan took THREE ROCK BOTTOMS and an PEOPLE'S ELBOW to finally be laid to rest.

It was a **** dramatic match, where the wrong person went over -- but at least Hogan didn't lose like some pussy or job to a woman like Flair was forced to do with Madusa in 1999.


Posted By: fg76 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:43 PM

 
 
Honestly, I would think EDge vs. Mick Foley from Wrestlemania 22 would be on here. I love the match, but it always has been overrated.

Posted By: Michael Bauer (Registered)  on February 19, 2008 at 01:48 PM

 
 
You say these matches are over rated then bash them purely on the wrestling in the match.

I mean have you ever heard one person call Hogan vs Rock a classic wrestling match? No. Everyone gives the acclaim to the atmosphere of the match. So how can it be over rated as you say when you admit the atmosphere was amazing?


Posted By: Guest#8013 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 02:14 PM

 
 
You've all forgot to list Taker/Mankind HitC from KOTR '98. That is the most overrated match ever.

Posted By: KG (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 02:14 PM

 
 
hardy taker should not be on that list at all.

Posted By: tommyevil (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 02:37 PM

 
 
I know whats really overrating, how bout any ROH match. I'll preface this by saying I'm a big Samoa Joe fan but Kobashi vs Joe was extremely boring. Anything w/ Niguel McGuiness, boring. Morisha, boring. Basically pretty much any main event in ROH not featuring kenta or the briscoes is WAY overrated.

Posted By: Jalen (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 02:47 PM

 
 
Wait, did I just read that someone put Bret Hart vs. Austin from WM13 on their overrated list? That match is sick as fuck.

Posted By: Guest#6443 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 03:04 PM

 
 
What about Andre-Hogan from WM3? That match sucked. I see why WWE was pissed at Ricky Steamboat and buried him because he and Randy savage had one of the best matches ever that people talked about more than the epic "main event".

Posted By: JFLYNT (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 03:09 PM

 
 
F*** you,Guest#1066, for being the biggest retard to ever step foot on this earth since President Bush. WM XX Triple threat overrated?! WM X Bret/Owen overrated?! Those are the two best matches in the HISTORY of Wrestlemania! Your favorite matches are probably anything to do with the three worst wrestlers of all time, Ultimate Warrior, in second place, the Great Khali, and in first place, that retarded SOB Hulk Hogan. You probably beat off to WM VI Hogan v Warrior which was the worst match I have ever seen in my life. I felt like my innocence was raped from me after I watched that. Guest#1066, you are the biggest idiot I have ever met. Go die in shame. The Submission Match at WM 13 and Bret/Owen in the cage? You really are the biggest douche to ever waste the air on this planet by breathing. As for the most overrated match of all time, look no farther than Rock/Hogan at WM X8. Simply put, i have seen better RAW matches than that POS. The only two things that helped its sorry ass along were the crowd and that fact that Hogan got his decrepit, sorry old-man ass pinned at Mania. I wish Rock had made his sorry ass tap out and then just beaten him to death. No wait, I take that back. I wish Vince at WM 19 had beaten Hogan to death. I would have laughed my ass off.

Posted By: Kenny (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 03:14 PM

 
 
Oh and Julian, Joe/Punk II? Are you SERIOUS? The most highly rated match in ROH HISTORY as number 10? WTF?!

Posted By: Kenny (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 03:15 PM

 
 
Guest#8781,

Nah, my favorite match wasn't the Rock vs. Goldberg...it was me vs. your mama...you talk about SUCKING...


Posted By: Guest#1066 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 03:34 PM

 
 
Ok, i dont have a huge issue with much on this list, really just hardy-taker, which is one of my few true markout moments since about age 16 or so. My issue is with the reader who listed austin-hart, micheals-benoit-triple h, etc. seriously did you just list every awesome mainstream match that consensus holds is great? the triple threat from WM XX was phenomonal with the ending of Trips tapping to the crossface truly being both shocking and an emotional moment. cant disagree with most of the Bret listings, because I find him pretty boring, but come on, Austin-Hart from WM 13. On top of being a great match, it also launched the biggest draw in the past 10-15 years into superstardom. Surely that cant be "overrated." My point is basically that consensus opinion can be right sometimes. And if you are seeing something for the first time out of the context of it's original timeframe, of course you are going to be disappointed. Even the Flair-Steamboat trilogy from 89 loses something from when it originally happened. Context means a lot.

Posted By: Dusty (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 04:00 PM

 
 
I'm not really going to complain because these are the most overrated matches in Julian's opinion. But I absolutely agree that Punk-Joe II should be on there. CM Punk looked extremely slow and unmotivated in this match. It was good but some people rate it as equal to the Steamboat-Flair matches from 89.

Posted By: Henry (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 04:05 PM

 
 
I totally agree on the Muraco- Snuka Match. When I first saw it on Steel Cage DVD, I was expecting a classic. Instead, it was a dull 6 minute match that Muraco won falling out the door.
Bret-Owen Hart WM 10 is OVERRATED?!?!?!?!
That is one of the best matches ever!! The fact that it wass the first match made it even more awesome.


Posted By: ghoubi81 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 04:09 PM

 
 
Kenny,

Eat a d!ck.


Posted By: Guest#1066 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 04:51 PM

 
 
How is savage/Hogan anywhere on this list but warrior/Hogan isn't??

Posted By: Eddie Chicago (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 05:17 PM

 
 
people are going to HATE me for this, but i think HBK/Razor in the ladder match at WM 10 is way over rated.

i think the list isi 100% right.

i think next, you should do an under rated match list.


Posted By: Litas Biggest Fan (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 05:22 PM

 
 
Ok, Guest#1066, I might have gone a little too far in my Lewis Black-esque rant there. My apologies. I just don't understand why you list all the great matches from all time as the most overrated? What is your best match that you have seen then?

Posted By: Kenny (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 05:36 PM

 
 
I think the primary reason that some people cream over Joe/Kobashi and others do not has more to do with "getting it" than it does anything else. All of the little homages to past Kobashi opponents and the pacing of the match may be largely lost on fans accustomed to the American style of wrestling. Basically, Joe is playing the role of The Rock against Kobashi's Hogan role. The young lion vs. the king of the jungle (as Lawler put it), and the young lion tries everything he's got, PLUS throws out stuff that Kobashi's toughest opponents have used successfully against him...but in the end he comes up short, even after the FIGHTINGOOO SPIRITAAAHHH! where he slaps Kobashi's teeth down his throat.

Think about it like seeing The Rock and Jeff Hardy going at it and Hardy started pulling out Stunners and Tombstones trying everything he could think of to pull out the win, knowing those moves have been successful in the past. For those who claim that RoH does not "tell a story" in their matches...THEY DO. You just may not KNOW the back history behind some of the stories being told, just like Japanese fans may not understand the significance of Ric Flair putting Shawn Michaels in a sharpshooter, if he did that.


Posted By: somecoolnamehere (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 05:44 PM

 
 
HAHAHA. Look at these guys getting all worked up and cursing at each other about ranking matches. I'm amused. Pretty much any Hogan match is over-rated. Most ROH matches are over-rated. One more thing, I think the whole Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle series was quite over-rating. Felt like they were trying to force classic matches instead of it just happening.

Posted By: Chris (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 05:49 PM

 
 
Totally agree Chris. ENRAGED SMARKS~! are awesome.

Posted By: Crystal Meth Punk (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:03 PM

 
 
American Dragon vs. Kenta - Glory By Honor V Night 2

Posted By: Mike (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:05 PM

 
 
i'd have to say any and every briscoes match is overrated to me. they're nothing special. just indy guys doing indy things. to read all the closet homosexuals (roh fans) go on about how great their matches are is just a perfect example of what happens when idiots start to think that they know about wrestling.

Posted By: Guest#9367 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:17 PM

 
 
I'm also in the camp that thinks that Bret/Owen at WM X is overrated. It's remembered due to it's ending. Their Summerslam Steel Cage Match is better.

I also don't care for Steamboat/Savage at WM 3. I think the Can-Am Connection vs. Muracco/Orton opener is way better.

Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar. It's mainly Brock kicking the daylights out of Eddie until Goldberg spears Brock and Eddie pins him. Eddie had way better matches.

I think that Great Muta match that created the "Muta Scale" is overrated also. It's not even the bloodiest match before that. Heck, that Slaughter/Patterson match Julian put on his list is bloodier.

Shawn Michaels/Taker HITC- It's just a cage match, just in a bigger cage. It's a good match, but nowhere near the best. Plus, it memorable for Kane's debut.

I also think Foley/Edge is kinda boring until the flaming table spot. Foley/Orton was better.


Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:34 PM

 
 
Hogan vs Chuck Norris was overrated. Not even Chuck could carry Hogan

Posted By: Mikey NiTro (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:41 PM

 
 
Hogan vs Chuck Norris was overrated. Not even Chuck could carry Hogan

Posted By: Mikey NiTro (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:41 PM

 
 
"Guest#8781,

Nah, my favorite match wasn't the Rock vs. Goldberg...it was me vs. your
mama...you talk about SUCKING..."

Wow, that's creative. You sound like a Randy Orton promo.


Posted By: Guest#5311 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:41 PM

 
 
Very good list and a nice column, Julian. By their very nature, lists like this are going to be debated. There are some I agree with, some I disagree with. But, overall, you did a great job (as evidenced by the discussion it has generated).

My all-time overrated match is Christ Benoit vs. William Regal, from the first Brian Pillman Memorial Show.

Some people absolutely rave over this match, and I'm still not sure why. It was a very good match, don't get me wrong. But, it never really stood out to me.


Posted By: Double A (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:42 PM

 
 
You are my hero.

Jeff Hardy and The Undertaker - 2 most overrated stars in a match, and the match sucked.

Same with Joe/Punk 2, all i heard was hype, watched it and though "Cool, decent match"


Posted By: Brad (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 06:56 PM

 
 
I think we all need to take this a little less seriously. The guy who said the WM XX triple threat and Bret/Owen etc were overrated is probably just trying to get a rise out of us. And succeeding.
Also, someone defended Rock/Hogan, saying that the match itself was never praised, just the moment. That all depends on who you talk to. A lot of people don't know the difference between the match and the moment. Rock-Hogan is *1/2 for the match, ***** for the moment. But for people who don't know the difference, yeah, that match is overrated.

How about an underrated list next? I'll vote for Michaels/Diesel vs. Kid/Razor and Austin/Hart I (much better than the WM match, IMO)


Posted By: Hawkeye (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 07:05 PM

 
 
The Cena haters are just sad.

Posted By: Capt. Smooth (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 07:07 PM

 
 
What is with all the WWE marks hating on ROH matches. Just because you don't like the wrestling in a match doesn't mean that other people don't like it as well.
Also when talking about overrated matches its hard because wrestlings changed and there are always bigger and better spots. At the time HBK/Razor ladder match was amazing but if you got a current ladder match and compared the two the more recent one will have better spots etc
Also just because you feel a match is overrated doesn't mean that it isn't a good match.


Posted By: Nick (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 07:15 PM

 
 
What is with all the WWE marks hating on ROH matches. Just because you don't like the wrestling in a match doesn't mean that other people don't like it as well.
Also when talking about overrated matches its hard because wrestlings changed and there are always bigger and better spots. At the time HBK/Razor ladder match was amazing but if you got a current ladder match and compared the two the more recent one will have better spots etc
Also just because you feel a match is overrated doesn't mean that it isn't a good match.


Posted By: Nick (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 07:18 PM

 
 
JLAJRC, the story being told in the HIAC match was incredible. Undertaker was basically pissed off and basically wanted to kill HBK, while HBK was basically a pussy who had no possible way of leaving or getting interference, so he had to think of any possible method to get UT away from him. He hit him with a chair twice, he pildrove him on the steel steps, he gave him repeated elbows from the turnbuckle. Then, when UT came back, he beat up a cameraman so that he could escape while they were getting the camerman out of the cell. When UT followed him and busted him open, he climbed up to the cell and got pushed off. The storytelling was off the charts and nothing was contrived.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 07:48 PM

 
 
for your unappreciated matches, how about hbk vs benjamin?i know alot people like this match but no-one raves about it.i love it, the athleticsim and pure entertainment that this encounter brought and could bring to any 'E' ppv would definately have my vote

Posted By: iwasgame (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 08:03 PM

 
 
Another overrated match:

Bulldogs vs. Dream Team - Mania II - I dont get this one, good match, not a classic.


Posted By: Brian (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 08:40 PM

 
 
I like how some people say "you forgot (insert match here)". He didn't forget anything, you just have different opinions. I hope that you haven't been so sheltered from the world that you haven't grasped this concept yet.

Posted By: Mike Minotti (Registered)  on February 19, 2008 at 08:40 PM

 
 
No Comment, ironically is a comment.

Posted By: xugreatone (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 08:55 PM

 
 
Cena vs Edge TLC would have been on my list. Edge was awesome all the way through but Cena's lack of continuity in selling absolutely ruined the match. One of his worst performances.

Posted By: Rob (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 09:30 PM

 
 
who ever sells in gimmick matches?

Posted By: Guest#4722 (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 09:37 PM

 
 
Couldn't agree more with you on barbed wire massacre. But the Hardy/Taker match is easily in the top five single ladder matches.

Posted By: Jeremy (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 09:40 PM

 
 
3) Don Muraco vs. Jimmy Snuka (MSG, 10/17/93)

Uhmmmm, I'm pretty sure that was more like 83, not 93. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it was a typo.


Posted By: Rowdy Scot (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 10:15 PM

 
 
100% agree on Taker vs. Hardy. I honestly never got why people were so excited about that one.

I was pretty underwhelmed the first time I saw the Joe/Punk matches too, although I'm come to love II due to the great storytelling. I think a lot of the appeal of these matches though is the fact that no one was doing 60 minute draws at the time, and when you go into the match knowing how it's gonna end, it takes a lot of the allure away.

I agree with those who say Bret and Owen from Mania X (ending makes it), and I could never get into Angle/Michaels from Mania 21 either.

One I haven't seen yet is Foley vs. Orton from Backlash 04. I've seen more than a few folks claim that was a classic when I was bored to tears while watching it.


Posted By: AJP (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 10:42 PM

 
 
What about every ROH match ever reviewed on this site?

Posted By: Johnny (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 10:49 PM

 
 
Joe/Punk II is not overrated; it's a five star classic without a doubt. And Guest #1066 you HAVE to be be kidding, please. If you don't like Hart/Austin at 13 then I don't even know why you would watch wrestling; you're wasting your time.

Posted By: Bernie (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:29 PM

 
 
Well if you wanted to post a thread that generated discussion you have succeeded Mr. Williams.

Some food for thought on the mentions of Hogan matches being overrated. For something to be overrated I think they have to be classified as good matches in the first place. I don't really think anyone considers those "classics" in pure wrestling terms, but they were classics for what they did on an emotional level (WM 18 vs Rock), or for individual performance (Savage V). I think they have no place on the overrated list.

My choices for omissions on the list....
HBK vs HHH RAW 12/29/03. This match is nowhere near the classic that anyone says it is. They went out there and had your basic cookie cutter match with the double pin ending. Not what I would call a classic. In fact the only match I felt they had that was a classic was their Summerslam Street Fight.

And this one might piss people off but Dean Malenko vs Eddie Guerrero 2/3 falls in their farewell match at the ECW arena. Now mind you I do not think it is a bad match. They key term is overrated. I had heard people call it the greatest match of all time back when I first saw it and I feel that it didn't even come close. It had some nice emotional qualities but I felt the pacing was a bit off on it and as far as the greatest of time I don't think it sniffs the top ten.


Posted By: Willie D (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:40 PM

 
 
Julian, Joe vs Kobashi man how can you forget that? The atmosphere was 5 stars but all Koabshi did was chops and a lariat.

Posted By: Chris (Guest)  on February 19, 2008 at 11:51 PM

 
 
I'm not a Hogan fan, but his match against Rocky and Savage are far from overrated. You, sir, are gay.

Posted By: Blubber (Guest)  on February 20, 2008 at 12:09 AM

 
 
I don't think I've annoyed everyone enough yet so let me say it again because I am so obnoxious. How about Cena-HBK from raw 4/23. DANG IT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!! I NEED THE ATTENTION!!

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on February 20, 2008 at 12:20 AM

 
 
Man I'm a whiny loser who hates anyone have an opinion opposite of mine. My match opinions are all that matters got it you stupid guests?

Posted By: Kenny (Guest)  on February 20, 2008 at 12:25 AM

 
 
My choice is three-way main event at Wrestlemania 20. I saw nothing special in the entire match except after the match ended. Boring match to a highly overrated PPV.

Wrestlemania 19 is far better than 20. 20 was just three card show while 19 was superb from top to bottom.


Posted By: Guest#6985 (Guest)  on February 20, 2008 at 12:29 AM