The Top Ten 4.15.08: Surprisingly Bad Matches
Posted by Julian Williams on 04.15.2008
After over a month of promising, it's finally here. The Top Ten Surprisingly Bad Matches in wrestling history! The matches that should have been classics, but wound up stinking up the joint. You know you're curious, come inside. Don't deny yourself!
Did ya miss me? Put your hand down mom. Sorry for missing last week people, but having a 60 hour work week will suck the life out of you. That or Tammy Sytch. Speaking of Sunny, she was insanely hot back in the day. Seriously, she was like flawlessly gorgeous. You see what those drugs do kids. Anyway, enough about my 12-years-too-late crush on Sunny, let's get into this weeks column.
Random Thoughts Of A Disturbed Wrestling Fan
-I have a theory that most people at some point in their lives were wrestling fans, whether they want to admit it or not, and my theory was proven in the few weeks prior to Wrestlemania. I had the Wrestlemania wallpaper set as the background for my computer at work (yes, I am a loser) and I was amazed by how many people approached me to speak about wrestling. Some told me about how they use to watch it when they were kids, some told me how they watch it with their kids now, and some told me about how they are still fans to this day. And a lot of them were people you would never suspect were wrestling fans. It just proves the universal appeal of wrestling and it furthers my theory that there are a lot of in-the-closet wrestling fans out there.
-I swear that MTV enjoys torturing its former viewers by having marathons of the shows they use to have that were actually good like Yo! MTV Raps, Headbangers Ball, Beavis & Butthead, and Daria. But then they rip it all away by showing a 3 hour block of The Hills to remind us that they truly have become the worst network on television.
-Is there anything better than 80's Madonna? Seriously, her songs back then were some of the best pop music ever made. Borderline, Crazy For You, Get Into The Groove, Lucky Star, Two Of Hearts, Like A Virgin, Material Girl, etc, etc. Songs that make you want to sing along even if you are a 6'2, 240 pound black dude.
-Ok, I lied, there is something better than 80's Madonna and that's "On Our Own" by Bobby Brown. That song alone made Ghostbusters II tolerable. Ok, maybe not, but it's still an awesome song.
-All throughout Wrestlemania weekend, I resisted crying for anything involving Ric Flair because I watched most of it with my girlfriend and I didn't want to cry around her. As a result, I was on the train the other day headed to work and what should start blaring in my earphones but "Leave The Memories Alone". At that point, I started tearing up instantly. Morale of the story? Don't be afraid to cry in front of your girl guys. Or you'll wind up bawling in front of hundreds of strangers on a crowded Number 6 train.
-Damn CBS to hell for canceling Secret Talents of the Stars. I wanted to see Flair SALSA dammit! Don't act like you didn't want to see it too.
-Man, I really miss King Booker. Don't you, Patrick? PINKY!!!
-I'm usually a big supporter of Paul Heyman, but some of his complaints about Ric Flair's retirement ceremony were pretty ridiculous. First off, to say that Jericho and Cena were out of place was nonsense. Jericho has known Flair since their days in WCW so isn't it possible that the two men might be friends behing the scenes? Granted, Jericho probably isn't as close to Flair as Trips or Double A, but if Flair was cool with Jericho being out there, what concern is it of Heyman's? As for Cena, he is the top dog in the business right now and Flair was the top dog in the business for decades. So I thought it was pretty awesome to see the top name in the business today acknowledge the greatest wrestler of all-time. In regards to the "Leave The Memories Alone" song, I feel as though it is a very nice song that perfectly entails the emotions surrounding Flair's retirements by basically sayings that even though Flair might be gone from the ring, the memories we have of him in his glory days cannot be touched. Heyman's suggestion of playing Flair's entrance music all night would have been pretty damn boring (at least to me). The song fit perfectly with the moment. It's not like they were playing some generic rock crap that has nothing to do with Flair's retirement. I'll always associate that song with Flair's retirement in the same way that I associate "My Way" with Rock/Austin at WM17 and "My Sacrifice" to all those Sacrifice videos the ‘E use to have. And that's not a bad thing because I want to remember Flair's retirement weekend for as long as I live.
Comments, Emails and Bitchslaps
I've been slacking with responding to the comments and emails that you guys leave for me so I'm going to try to make a better effort of including some of your thoughts in each week's columns. No promises, though. I am a lazy bitch after all.
Hows that for an idea...your top 10 favourite wrestlers?!
Posted By: Dave (Guest) on April 01, 2008 at 07:43 PM
When I do a Top Ten on best wrestlers, I wont base it on my personal preference, but rather who I honestly feel are the greatest of all-time. That being said, here are my personal 10 favorite grapplers of all-time:
1) Mick Foley
2) Ric Flair
3) Shawn Michaels
4) Bret Hart
5) The Rock
6) Chris Jericho
7) Steve Austin
8) Eddie Guerrero
9) Randy Savage
10) Koko B. Ware
And no, number 10 is not a joke. I seriously loved Koko when I was a kid. Come on, the man had a futuristic silver jacket (w/ the glasses to match), a kick ass entrance song, and a parrot on his shoulder. A FUCKING PARROT!! How pimp is that? To this day, if I watch a Koko B. Ware match, I'll get out of my chair, start flapping my arms, and sing "Piledriver" horribly off key.
"Big time bonus points if you can put together a top 10 moments in the Kane vs
Chavo match"
Posted By: MRE (Guest) on April 02, 2008 at 04:00 AM
Don't tempt me sir or you might just get this:
The Top Ten Moments in the Kane/Chavo WM match
10)Kane's fiery entrance always looks great on a Wrestlemania set.
9) Chavo selling the chokeslam like death by clutching his head and then rolling out of the ring before collapsing on the floor.
8) Chavo doing his best Macho Man impression by repeatedly pointing at Kane and looking around like a possessed madman before charging.
7) Chavo showing no fear…..At least until Kane showed up behind him, chokeslammed him and pinned him.
6) The people in the front row who were clapping for Chavo before the match completely turning on him and marking out for Kane after he won.
5) The ref with a look of pity on his face after Chavo gets chokeslammed to hell.
4) Armando Estrada's PIMP suit while doing the ring announcing.
3) The girl with the big boobs in the front row jumping up and down after Kane wins. Ohh wait, that was just a fat dude. Nevermind.
2) The "Ohh-Shit-I'm-Fucked" look on Chavo's face when he realizes Kane is in the ring.
1) Chavo Guerrero fighting for a title at Wrestlemania…..Even if it was only for 8 seconds.
I sent WWE an e-mail complaining about the Snoop Dog/Maria kiss. Kardashian
herself is famous for an interracial sex tape. Vince must love race-mixing.
Posted By: Randall (Guest) on April 02, 2008 at 06:27 PM
Race mixing is what America is built on. It's hard to find anyone that isn't mixed with something. And don't you know that mixed girls are the hottest girls ever. Seriously, try to find an ugly mixed girl. It's impossible. They're all hot. It can be a funky mix too like German and Haitian and the chick will still be hot. Go find yourself a mixed girl people. That way we can keep mixing races until we're all eventually one color. Hopefully black because you white folks turn red too easily.
Please... Italians don't compare to the Brother Men?
Domenico is WAY better than Flava Flav!
Posted By: Balboa (Guest) on April 01, 2008 at 07:57 PM
NOBODY is better than Flava Flav. He's the only man who could be uglier than dog vagina, be broke, and old as shit and yet still fuck models. Respect that man Balboa! Sorry sir, but:
The Top Ten Surprisingly Bad Matches
10) Steve Austin vs. Brian Pillman (Clash Of Champions XXV)
This is what they broke The Hollywood Blondes up for?!? This was suppose to be the big blowoff match between The Blondes after Austin turned on Pillman. These two were capable of having a 20-minute classic, but instead had a 10 minute suckfest. It wasn't THAT bad, but it definitely wasn't good. It was mediocre at best and with the talent involved, it should have been great. Disappointing match and these two never really had the classic match that many thought they were capable of. This was definitely a blown opportunity here.
9) Batista vs. Umaga (Wrestlemania 24)
Sure, this was just a few weeks ago, but this match disappointed me more than any other match in recent history. The reason is because both men were on a role and were having some great matches so I had high hopes for this match. I wasn't expecting it to be as good as Batista/Undertaker from last year, but I at least expected it to come close. What we got instead was an under 10 minute snorefest which really didn't do jack or shit for either man. I wanted to see a brawl between two behemoths and instead we got rest holds, nonsense and an anticlimactic finish. Boo-urns sirs. Boo-urns!
8) Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Perfect (Summerslam '93)
Two of the all-time greats facing off in the peak of their careers is guaranteed to be great, right? Right? Not so much. This match just didn't click at all and it seemed like both men were completely out of synch with each other. Being that it was Perfect and HBK, they were at least able to manage a decent match, but knowing what this match COULD have been is what makes it so disappointing and, ultimately, bad.
7) Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio (Bash At The Beach '98)
When you read "Jericho vs. Mysterio" you probably immediately think of a high-flying, counter filled, 4 star affair. Instead, this match gave us a boring, slow paced, barely 2 star debacle. I guess these guys must have just been off this night, but the match they had was not up to the quality that both men usually create. There was no real psychology and it seemed to just be a thrown together match that neither man put their all into. Very disappointing especially given the fact that the match was No-DQ and had all the potential in the world, but wound up being a forgettable and short encounter.
6) Bret Hart vs. Curt Henning (Uncensored '98)
Bret Hart and Curt "Mr. Perfect" Henning had some fantastic classics in the WWE so most fans assumed they would continue the tradition when they faced off in WCW. Instead what we got was a match that wasn't up to either man's standards. Sure, both of them were pretty beat up by this point, but I still feel that they could have produced a better match than this one. That was evidenced at the end of the match when they had a hot finishing sequence that featured Bret reversing a sunset flip into a Sharpshooter. Too bad the previous 10 minutes before that were boring as shit. Ohh well, at least we have Summerslam '91 and KOR '93.
5) The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (Backlash '02)
The Undertaker and Stone Cold always had good matches with each other. They never had classic encounters, but whenever they locked up, you could count on an entertaining brawl. Not so in this match. It was more filled with restholds, stalling and taunting than any actual wrestling. If it had gone on for only 10 minutes or so, it wouldn't have been so bad, but it was damn near THIRTY minutes of this crap. I understand that Austin was breaking down by this point, but I'm pretty damn positive he could have put on a much more entertaining match than this. Even Ric Flair and his BOSS red shoes couldn't save this match as his special referee role barely impacted the match except when he counted the pin against Austin even though his foot was on the ropes. This was the last meeting between these two greats and it's a damn shame this was their final encounter because they had some entertaining slugfests before this crap.
4) Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes (Starrcade '84)
Anytime that The Nature Boy and The American Dream faced off, you were almost guaranteed to be entertained. But on this night, for some reason, both men were just completely out of synch with each other and the result was one of the worst matches of both men's careers. The match was basically just chop, punch, resthold, chop, punch, resthold, chop, punch, resthold, etc, etc. It was nowhere near as entertaining as the matches between these two normally were and the bullshit finish where special ref Joe Frazier stopped the match because of Dusty's blood loss only further made this match unbearable. For shits sake, Dusty bleeds if he coughs, so stopping the match for blood loss was pretty ridiculous. Fortunately, these two would make up for this stinkfest in later years.
3) Triple H vs. Steve Austin (Survivor Series 2000)
Triple H tried to end Austin's career after hiring Rikishi to run him over with a car, so the revenge match between Austin and The Game seemed destined to be an all-time classic filled with tons of brutality. Instead what we got was 25 minutes of mindless brawling that was hardly entertaining. This is one of the few matches I've ever fallen asleep on which seems ludicrous since it features two of the best the industry has ever seen, but it was just flat out boring. It didn't start picking up until the end, but by that point it wasn't enough to redeem this snoozer. Even Triple H being crushed in a car wasn't enough to make this match good. Ahh, who am I kidding, yes it was.
2) Edge vs. Matt Hardy (Summerslam '05)
How do you fuck up a hot angle before it even gets off the ground? By having the face of the match get his ass kicked in 10 minutes and have the ref stop the match for "blood loss" when people get paper cuts with more blood. What's so frustrating about this match is that the match started off well with both men stiffing the crap of out each other and Edge hitting a sweet spear on Matt through the ring ropes. It seemed like we were in for a great, long match. But instead, a few minutes later Edge dropped Matt head first on the steel post and continually kicked him in the head until the ref stopped the match. The crowd booed the hell out of that finish and rightfully so. It made Matt look like a jobber that got in a few lucky punches, but then got dominated by Edge. If they had Edge win through nefarious means in order to continue the feud, I would have been fine with that. But to have him beat down Hardy to the point that the ref had to stop the match just made Hardy look weak and it took their incredible cage match the next month to salvage this feud.
1) Holly wood Hulk Hogan vs. Sting (Starrcade '97)
How do you fuck this match up? Seriously. No, I seriously want an answer. Don't have one? I don't blame you because neither do I. Now don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting a 5 star classic or anything with this match, but I was at least expecting a decent match with a great ending ala Goldberg/Hogan on Nitro. Instead what we got was a boring match with one of the stupidest endings I've ever seen in a wrestling match (and that covers a lot of ground). WCW had a fantastic angle with Sting vs the nWo. Sting was basically a loner in the beginning and didn't side with either WCW or the nWo for months. He'd come out and attack whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted and the fans ate it up. Once Sting finally aligned himself with WCW against the nWo, the fans were rabid to see Sting dethrone the cocky champion, Hogan. General Wrestling Booking 101 would dictate that Sting would beat Hogan cleanly on the biggest show of the year to send the fans home happy. What happened instead was a contrived mess that still has me scratching my head to this day. You see, Bret Hart defected from the WWE to WCW so they had Bret sit ringside for this match (as a special enforcer, timekeeper, or jock strap holder, I don't remember) and he called foul when Hogan presumably won after a "fast count". The only problem? The count was slow as hell. In fact, it might have been even slower than most regular three counts. Anyway, Bret demanded that the match be restarted due to the "injustice" that had just occurred (you see, Bret was screwed by the WWE so he didn't like screwjobs. Get it? Good) and shortly thereafter Sting was able to slap on the Scorpion Deathlock for the submission and the title. This was a match that was so easy to book that it is mind numbing to think how badly they messed it up. Sting dominates the early portion, Hogan gains control with some heelish tactics, Sting comes back and slaps on the Scorpion for the submission. You see? Simple, easy and CLEAN! But I guess there's a reason WCW isn't in business anymore and this is one of them.
Drive-By Pimpin'
Check out all these great columns by my 411 brethren:
-Andy Clark's "Shimmy"
-Ari's "Column Of Honor"
-Sean, Alex and David's "Triple Threat"
-Bayani's "Truth B Told"
-Weyer's "Shining The Spotlight"
-Byers' "Cheap Wrestling for Cheap People"
-Larry and Geoff's "4R's"
-Fact Or Fiction
-Sat and Uncle Trunx's "High Road/Low Road"
-Phill Feltham's "Quick Talkdown"
-Sarnecky's "Piledriver Report"
-Slimmer's News Report
-Hidden Highlights
-Carapola's "That Was Then" and "Friendly Competition"
-The Fink's Payload
-Gamble's "Just 'Spose"
-Cook's "Ask 411"
-Wilcox's "Thoughts From The Top Rope"
-Meehan's "Meethinks"
-Sforcina's "Evolution Schematic"
-Prag's "In Defense Of?."
-Wrestlers of the Week
-Randle's "Wrestling News Experience"
-Linkous' "Why I Love Wrestling"
-Double M's Rasslin Report
-News To Start Your Weekend
-Dunn's Rawtopsy, Smackdown Breakdown, & ECW eXperience
-Your News, Larry's Views
-Zac Calhoun's "The Ripple Effect"
-Joe Estee's "Keys To The Game"
-Halden's "You're An Idiot And Here's Why"
-Buy......OR SELL!!
-Chris Lansdell "The Way I C It"
-Alex Barcham's "Hitting Below The Beltway"
-T.G. Corke's "The Seventh Dimension"
-Magnus Donaldson's "Cut To The Crap"
-Tim Haught's "Pro Wrestling Pundit"
-William Bumgarner's "What Were They Thinking?"
-Jarrod Westerfield's "Viral Dose Of Reality"
The Sign-Off
I gots no more people. Be sure to leave your comments and come back next week when the topic will be The Top Ten Ric Flair Matches. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any match with Hogan shouldn't be "suprisingly bad" i mean what are you expecting? Also How in the blue hell would you expect Umaga/Batista to put on a good match?
Posted By: Mr1700 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:17 PM
Solid list with very solid rankings.
I would also add Jericho/HHH from WrestleMania X-8 to list consideration.
Posted By: Patrick (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:20 PM
It's Curt Hennig...I can't believe you don't know that...
Hennig...man oh man...
Really bad Julian...really bad...
Posted By: y2j420 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:24 PM
Um 2 of Hearts was my song not Madonna's
Posted By: Stacy Q (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:26 PM
You should have added Goldberg vs Lesnar from Wrestlemania 20. What look to be biggest match at the time turned out to be dud and both wrestlers not giving a crap.
Posted By: Guest#0405 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:26 PM
Hey, where is Hardy vs Hardy from Vengeance '01? That's top 3 material for me.
Posted By: Michael O (Registered) on April 15, 2008 at 03:31 PM
so, hogan/sting is #1.
I assume that the "rosie"/"donald" "match" is in the negative numbers then
Posted By: tom john (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:44 PM
Did someone actually say "blue hell"?
Jeeze. Next someone will say "pwned" or "rick-rolled".
Posted By: David (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:44 PM
Dammit Stacy Q, you're right. Why did I think that was a Madonna song?
Ohh well, 80's Madonna still ruled.
Let's replace "Two Of Hearts" with "Like A Prayer" and act like you didnt see anything.
YOU DIDNT SEE NOTHING STACY Q!!
Posted By: Julian Williams (Registered) on April 15, 2008 at 03:45 PM
Why add Lesner/Goldberg? The article was about SURPRISING suck matches. What was surprising about Lesner/Goldberg sucking? I think that was crystal clear from the beginning.
Posted By: David (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:46 PM
Gotta add Angle vs. HHH at Unforgiven 2000. Agree with the Hardy vs. Hardy vote too, and throw in the two Edge vs. Christian matchups from 2001
Posted By: mr_wishart (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:46 PM
Aw, lay off him, y2j420. I been watching those AWA reruns, and hell, they've spelled it "Henning" in the pre-match graphics.
Posted By: G-Walla (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:55 PM
Good list. Yeah, you can write a whole column and part of a book on the Hogan/Sting match. Oh, wait, I did the former and RD REynolds the latter. Still boggles how they blew such a long-built up perfect bit.
Posted By: Michael Weyer (Registered) on April 15, 2008 at 03:56 PM
I completely agree about Goldberg/Lesnar. That should've been a totally whoopass brawl, and what we got was 10 minutes of nobody giving a shit. That's probably my tops for disappointment. At least Top 3.
Posted By: Tyler (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 03:59 PM
It's not that we expected a great match from Hogan... we expected something monumental (along the lines of Hogan/Rock)... and we got a HORRIBLE finish and a terrible match to boot.
Also... Lesnar/Goldberg HAS to be on there... when the match was announced marks all over the world had their panties up their asses waiting for that match... and then the bottom fell out a couple weeks before the show when we learned that both men were leaving the company after that match.
What a shame... I was looking so foward to that match.
Posted By: Rollz... (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:01 PM
He also left out Triple H v.s. Kurt Angle at..I think Unforgiven 2000. This was supposed to be the big match to end the whole "triangle" storyline between Steph/Angle/H. I just remembered being really excited for this match but it ended up sucking big time.
Posted By: The Duggler (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:06 PM
Good list, but I would've included Goldberg/Lesnar from WMXX. Of course it wouldn't have been a technical classic, but it was beyond bad. Guess it didn't help that the fans knew it was both of their last matches in the WWE. Should've been at least a decent power match.
Posted By: Bobby (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:12 PM
I thought edge vs hardy would have been really good but yeah they made Matt look like a jobber. I would also add Lance Storm vs Chris Jericho in the wwf to that list, and any of the Ric Flair vs Hulk Hogan matches.
Posted By: SolidCPlus (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:14 PM
I think Goldberg v. Lesner was surprisingly bad because it had such a great build, and that it was one that fans had clamored for even before Goldberg made it to the WWE. Of course, once it was clear that both wrestlers were leaving after the match, then the NYC fans just torpedoed the match. Even then, they could have put something interesting together, but it was clear that neither cared anymore.
I though Jericho/HHH was actually a very good match, which suffered from having to follow the heat of the Rock/Hogan encounter that had just ended.
Another surprisingly bad match was Hardy v. Hardy at Vengeance 01. You had two brothers who had been working together their entire lives, and yet they couldn't sustain a watchable match and in fact they had to kill the breakup angle just to save the characters.
There was also a very disappointing match between Richard Morton and RObert Gibson, which might have been at the black hole of all PPVs, Great American Bash 91. They could easily have put on a 4 star match that blew away the fans and perhaps saved the show. However, they had it in low-gear and did a more psychology based match. While I appreciate what they were doing, it was certainly not what the hostile crowd wanted to see.
Posted By: Michael L (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:15 PM
Top 10 Moments of the Chavo-Kane Match at Wrestlemania?
10. Kane enters
9. Chavo actually shows up
8. The bell rings
7. Chokeslam!
6. The ref counts 1
5. The ref counts 2
4. The ref counts 3
3. The ref calls for the bell
2. The ref hands Kane the title
1. The ref makes an easy pay day
Posted By: Glenn (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:21 PM
Have to disagree on Matt/Edge being there. It was stiff as hell and had anyone watching just BEGGING for more. I know I was more entertained in that five minutes than I have been a LOT of the time watching wrestling.
Posted By: DomDom (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:35 PM
Lesnar/Goldberg at Mania 20 would've made my #1, or at least my top three. It was only entertaining because of how the NYC crowd completely shat on it, and Lesnar's reactions to it.
Posted By: BJC (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:38 PM
What about Triple H v. Owen from WM14 and Edge and Christian v. the Hardys from No Way Out 2000.
Posted By: Bob (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:39 PM
Is it any wonder that the Shawn vs. Curt match made it on this list? Nice inclusion, Julian. With two fantastic workers, one would expect a classic match up. The problem wound up being that both men have similar styles that don't necessarily translate into a great match. Both look strongest when they've been beat up on a lot and then make a huge comeback. It's too bad the match wasn't a classic, and it was a little surprising until hindsight kicked in.
Posted By: Mina (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:42 PM
man i aint even read the column yet... i had to pause and give you love on the "on Our Own" shoutout haha... aight i'ma go read it now
Posted By: Guest#5630 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:45 PM
You should do a Top Ten most underrated talkers countdown next week.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:57 PM
Great list. I immediately thought of Hogan/Sting Starcade 97, and was pleasantly surprised to see it on your list.
I think this match signaled the beginning of the end of WCW.
I've heard 2 explanations for the Hart inteference.
1. Hogan payed off the ref to count slow as opposed to the scripted fast count to bury Sting out of jealousy.
2. Sting, somehow, someway, FORGOT to kickout at 2.
I'm not sure what happen but this match killed one of the best and longest angles of the decade, and started WCW's downfall.
Posted By: Buck I (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 04:57 PM
Gotta agree on Brock/Goldberg. Could have been an epic big man battle with those two destroying each other, and instead we got nothing.
Posted By: Guest132 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:00 PM
Wow, I'm gonna have "On Our Own" stuck in my head all day now. Anyway, with the Starrcade 84 match, if I recall correctly, that's the match where Flair says in his book that Dusty was pissed about losing the title again, and half assed the match.
Posted By: Steve (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:07 PM
I agree with JJ. There are a lot of underrated Promo-men in the business and there should be a countdown.
Posted By: C-Squared (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:14 PM
Blame hogan for the sting/ hogan shitfest at starrcade 97. Hogan didn't want to lose to sting clean because he felt sting didn't look buff enough to beat the "Mighty Hulkster"
Posted By: mack (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:24 PM
Yeah, you should do a most-underrated mic-skills countdown, or maybe underrated wrestlers in general.
Posted By: Randall (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:24 PM
Where is Joe V. Angle (lockdown 08')?
Posted By: Leon (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:32 PM
#1 and #2 are dead on, my friend.
Posted By: Jamal (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:33 PM
You forgot the best part of the Hogan Sting match. Bret claims there was an injustice and it will not stand, he'll make things right. But then a min later Buff and Norton enter the ring and attack Sting and Bret doesn't do shit, he just stands there in the ring looking on.
Posted By: Namek (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:42 PM
I agree mack, and didn't Hogan actually pay Nick Patrick backstage before the show to do a normal count so that he and the fans could say that he beat him cleanly?
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:43 PM
In "The Death OF WCW" it says somewhere along the lines of Hogan not letting Sting kickout hence the very strange looking kick out. Hogan and his fucking politics ruined what I thought was the best built angle EVER
Posted By: Tony (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:45 PM
I bet Joey Styles was loving the Kane-Chavo match. Flown out, fancy hotel, big Wrestlemania weekend, eight seconds of work. What a country!
Posted By: Shiori Coybito (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:47 PM
Sting-Hogan was terrible. I was a big fan of WCW at the time. I was pumped because I knew Sting would own. But he got owned by Hogan. Seriously WCW? I was dumbfounded that whole match all the way to the screwy finish. Did Bischoff have such a hard on for Hogan that he wouldn't just let him job cleanly or was Hogan that big a douche that he wouldn't drop the title after holding the damn thing for a year. Then WCW comes back the next night in the rematch and cuts out in the middle of the match! Julian you should make a WCW list. Top ten reasons the company tanked.
Posted By: JM (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:54 PM
I was kinda disapointed in the WWE's version of the Best of 7 series between Benoit and Booker T, especially since the first series they had in WCW is a classic.
I think Matt Hardy/Edge is a great case of a feud itself being greater than it's matches. I also think Hogan/Roddy Piper also fits here.
I know everyone agrees that WM 9 sucks all over, but you would think that Perfect/Luger would at least be watchable.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:56 PM
I don't understand how somebody who's smart to the business (like a Net columnist) can call the Hennig/Michaels '93 match 'surprisingly' bad. Hennig's back was so bad at that point that he could barely move (shades of Michaels at Wrestlemania against Austin), and that was no secret to anybody that was clued in to the business, then or now. So that match was really designed to be nothing more than a simple blowoff to just end the feud and let Hennig start his recovery. Look at Hennig's facial expressions during the match whenever he takes a bump to the back and you'll see obvious telltales to his condition.
Sure -- if they were healthy, it's not a great match -- and if you're an uninformed mark, then maybe you wouldn't realize why it was so lackluster -- but otherwise, I wouldn't call it 'surprisingly' bad (and I wouldn't say they were at their respective 'peaks' either, given what we know about Hennig's state.)
Posted By: JeffS (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 05:56 PM
Didn't Hogan actualy pay Nick Patrick before the show to do a normal count so that he and the fans could say that he pinned Sting cleanly?
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 06:10 PM
Enough with the Golberg-Brock talk: the match was DESIGNED to suck. Probably not as bad as it did, but I think the plan all along (at least once they knew both men were leaving) was for them to have a pretty nondescript match and let Austin get all the crowd heat.
I've got to add Benoit-MVP 2/3 Falls from last year's Judgment Day. I was really looking forward to this match, could have been a classic, but boy did it suck.
Posted By: Andy Clark (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 06:43 PM
PATRICK FUCKING STAR!!!! Awesome.
Anyway, suprisingly bad matches... id say the Triple Threat from WM22, it went for like 9 minutes and was very average.
Also why so much Henning? I cry inside...
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 08:05 PM
Nothing for me could be any worse than seeing Scott Steiner vs Triple H at the Royal Rumble in 2003.
Posted By: pdh (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 08:10 PM
doesn't anybody on the IWC ever get tired of making up new reasons to hate hulk hogan? Who said he paid the ref? Hogan? Sting? Patrick? Nope, some moron Internet writer pissed off cause wcw wasn't pushing the little guys enough. Of course, as soon as any of them made it the same writers found a reason to hate them. It was a very poorly booked match. Period. I believe hogan did have a problem with sting looking like a cruiserweight, but he had creative control so why the he'll would he pay a red?
Posted By: Guest#9527 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 08:29 PM
Oh boy I forgot about Scott Steiner and his terrible run in the WWE. I gotta give HHH credit for wrestling himself in that feud.
Posted By: JM (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 08:37 PM
How about Goldberg/Lesnar? That's ASS of the century in my opinion
Posted By: Mike (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 09:59 PM
How did Lesnar v. Goldberg at WM20 not make the list? Biggest stinker of my lifetime.
Posted By: EddieMac (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 10:07 PM
The Goldberg/Lesnar debacle didn't make your list?
And why Batista/Umaga? Did people actually expect that to be good? Big Dave sucks ass and needs someone like Taker or Edge to carry him to a good match. Umaga needs to work with someone smaller than him. And did I mention Big Dave sucks ass.
Posted By: Nandy (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 11:13 PM
What about Edge-Booker from Wrestlemania X8, I was excited for that one, and needless to say I was let down.
Can we also add Angle-Steiner from last years Destination X? That one should/could have been awesome...
Posted By: Guest#4236 (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Yeah.. gotta call you on the "in the peak of their careers" comment. Curt was already past his prime and Shawn had yet to reach his. Anyone writing a wrestling column should know such things. For shame.
Posted By: :emaN (Guest) on April 15, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I thought the Goldberg - Lesnar match at WM20 was pretty funny. Neither guy really knew how to react to the overwhelmingly negative crowd and in the end they just sort of danced around for 2 minutes before actually locking up
Posted By: Patrick Robinson (Registered) on April 16, 2008 at 12:05 AM
good list..but i think hardy was really hurt.......when he fell on the top of the post if you look at the match the ref is trying to help matt but matt just had a blank stair on his face...after the ref realized matt was not getting his mind back (i.e. edge just kicking him hoping to help mat realize where he is at and what is goin on) the ref asked for the bell.....i dont think it would have effected the match if edge would have pinned him or not
Posted By: dave (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 12:06 AM
batista vs. umaga was only because they didn't have anything else for them to do, i wasn't expecting much
Posted By: Nash (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 01:24 AM
"Aw, lay off him, y2j420. I been watching those AWA reruns, and hell, they've
spelled it "Henning" in the pre-match graphics."
that was only because Verne Gagne was french, illiterate and into autoerotic aspyxiztion. combine that with all his years in the ring taking stiff shots to exposed turnbuckles and Nitkia Koloff and you have someone okaying the misspelling of Hennig.
Posted By: Darth Mortis (Registered) on April 16, 2008 at 01:49 AM
#1 in mine eye wrestlemania 2000 4 way match 4 the belt.
i m a hulkamanic got to say that match was good but the end sucks.bad ending.
Posted By: viper (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 02:09 AM
Nice list. Only major glaring omission would be that Triple H v. Angle Unforgiven 2000 match. I seem to remember them going the squash route, which SHOULD have been a satisfying fate for Angle, but it just kinda sucked in execution.
Hardy v. Edge made enough sense in the context of the bigger angle that was supposedly going to go down. But since we didn't really GET that angle, then it would have been nice to just watch two guys who really hated each other beat the crap out of each other. Screw the angle, we just wanted to see the fight!
People are always down on the Hardy v. Hardy match from Vengeance 2001, but I liked it. It made sense. Matt fought a conservative match, the flashier Jeff took a few more risks, it cost him his knee, and Matt exploited that. This is another match that we'd look back on more fondly if the E hadn't botched the overall storyline. Maybe that phenomenon needs to be called the Matt Hardy Syndrome.
Goldberg v. Lesnar probably belongs on a different list--maybe for a future column?--of matches that could have been good but were ruined before they ever began. See also: Triple H v. Chris Jericho (fighting over a dog?!) and almost any match from the Mysterio v. Eddie custody battle.
Nicely done!
Sam!
Posted By: Sam! (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 02:22 AM
where does undertaker stands in your wrestlers list
Posted By: salman (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 02:24 AM
I'd agree that Michaels v Perfect at Summerslam '93 was the biggest letdown considering the talent involved.
However, I have to disagree with regards to the Edge v Matt Hardy match. Sure the ending pi$$ed people off, but the 5 minutes of action were tremendous - not every match has to be a 20 minute classic. Also, it started the feud really well and lead to better matches and the insane leg drop off the cage.
I also thought that almost every Eddie v Rey match in the WWE failed to live up to expectations, although that's probably my fault for expecting another Halloween Havoc 5 star match every time they met.
Posted By: Baron Skinny (Registered) on April 16, 2008 at 04:15 AM
I think HHH/Michaels in a Hell In The Cell should be on this list. That was one of the few matches I literally fell asleep during.
Posted By: Guest#9759 (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 04:38 AM
I agree that Triple H vs. Stone Cold at Survivor Series 2000 was a dud. There was one silver lining in that it lead to one of the best matches of the the decade in the 3 stages of hell at No Way Out 2001.
Posted By: Sparty Chad (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 08:08 AM
here's my top ten lists on why the Lesnar/Goldberg match sucked balls.
10.B
9.I
8.L
7.L
6.+
5.B
4.R
3.O
2.C
1.K
Posted By: JMASCORPIO (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 09:02 AM
Why don't you put some effort into columns like this instead of just whining and explain why these matches were surprisingly bad, otehr than "Two good workers should have a good match?" Maybe somebody was injured. Maybe they had some bad Chinese food. Don't just say, "This match was crap. Wah!" Here's an idea; Top Ten Worst Top Ten columns? This one will surely make it.
Posted By: Crow (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 10:39 AM
You like to be challenged, eh Julian? Alright. Let's see if you can pull this one off.
Top 10 Heidenreich moments, go!
Oh, and good column this week by the way, man! Us Top-10 listers gotta stick together! I would a match I thought was surprisingly bad was RVD v. Sabu in a ladder match on WWECW for the number one contender. These two are usually gold together but for whatever reason...this match just didn't do it for me. Plus, it included a lame ass ending.
Posted By: Derek Robbins (Registered) on April 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Well you own3d that one guy on the top ten reasons for Chavo/Kane but try this one on for size.
Top ten reasons why this inces storyline is a GOOD idea.
Bet you can't do that one! Anyways, great colum.
Posted By: EBak (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM
i gotta say that goldberg vs lesnar needs to be on that list. granted all the smarts expected it to suck when it was announced that both men were leaving after wrestlemania but still. the rest of us were juiced for this match, i mean after goldberg came to the WWE all anyone wanted to see was goldberg/rock, golderg/austin, goldberg/taker and goldberg/lesnar. this was supposed to be clash of the titans, the two behemouths clashing for the first time ever and what we got was possibly the worst non gimmick match of all time (fake trump vs fake rosie being the worst gimmick match). i remember being heartbroken by that match as it was the one i personally was looking foward to the most. i don't know maybe i was the only one with high hopes.
Posted By: stronelis (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 01:36 PM
The Triple threat yawn, er, match from WM 24! Poor build and poor finish.
I believe that if they let Sting pin Hogan cleanly, WCW would've never had to resort to Goldberg-Hogan on free TV.
Posted By: Orlando (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Two of Hearts was not a Madonna song it was by the ever popular Stacey Q.
Posted By: benoitwasframed (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 02:40 PM
Koko B Ware??? that's fucking great, would Outback Jack be #11?
here's my top ten all-time favs to watch
10) Gino Hernandez
9) Sabu
8) Abdullah the Butcher
7) Bruiser Brody
6) Shane Douglas
5) "Boogie Woogie Man" Jimmy Valiant
4) Eddie Gilbert
3) Ric Flair
2) Ricky Steamboat
1) Curt Hennig
Posted By: Joe (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 03:24 PM
Hey, you talk about all these different matches that did't make the list, how about Hollywood Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior at Halloween Havoc 98.
Posted By: WWE fan (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 04:12 PM
Its ashame Austin didnt really kill Triple H in that car.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 04:18 PM
2 of Hearts was Stacy Q, not Madonna brotha. As for the list, I agree with most, but have a shady memory of the Jericho vs. Mysterio match. Was this the match in which Jericho smashed Rey's leg with the tool box? If I am thinking right...(might have been Juvi he smashed with the toolbox) weren't they playing off an injury angle with Rey?
Posted By: Toddo (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 05:07 PM
Nice list, I still remember the snoozefest put on by Trips and Austin at SS 2000, they made up for it a few months later in the 3 stages of hell match. I also agree with Michael O, Hardy vs Hardy after they first split, 2 capable performers that just needed to put on the high flying match people were expecting yet they went all resthold hell on us.
Posted By: Guest#6933 (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 06:46 PM
You forgot Matt vs Jeff at Vengeance 2002
Posted By: Dan (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 07:10 PM
this looks like it's digressing into top 10 missed oppertunities/blown angles.
Posted By: SolidCPlus (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 09:40 PM
No, BET is the worst station on tv, I can't watch that shit anymore
Posted By: mfactor00 (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 10:21 PM
You can blame Nick Patrick for stingvhogan but dont say dusty vs flair sucked because obviously you havent watch enough sports entertainment from the 1970s and 1980s
Posted By: EJ (Guest) on April 16, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Nice top ten list with the Kane/Chavo Wrestlemania match!! lol Gotta look for the positives!!!
Posted By: Julian Bond (Registered) on April 17, 2008 at 01:10 PM
hulk hogan vs andre.sat main event.
hulk hogan vs earthquack summerslam
1# worst match hogan mr.t vs piper and mr.wonderful
Posted By: viper (Guest) on April 17, 2008 at 01:56 PM
A few days ago I was thinking about Flair and his obvious greatness. But I then began thinking about his handicap with Big Show against Stone Cold at Judgement Day 2002 and how bad it was. And this was the best column to leave a comment on. I mean come on - Big Show, Flair as heels as Stone Cold. But Austin was nearing the end and you could tell. Boring match with 'Super-Austin' overcoming the odds. Only matched in poorness by the main event of Hogan vs Taker (another suprisingly bad match!)
Posted By: AH (Guest) on April 18, 2008 at 04:38 AM
Another one I forgot to mention that I have yet to see on here are the Mick Foley v.s. Ric Flair matches from 2006 (I think). The two outta 3 falls match was a huge disappointment, where I thought they were going to be classics
Posted By: The Duggler (Guest) on April 18, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Amen on #2 and #1. Special one for number two as a Matt Hardy maek. I was expecting a back and forth all-out war between the two, but instead the made Matt Hardy Edge's bitch...well, Edge's 2nd bitch.
Posted By: Shaun (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 05:29 PM
How about a top 10 most surprising moments in wrestling?
So Edge cashing in MITB in 2006, or Eric Bischoff and McMahon hugging?
Posted By: AH (Guest) on June 26, 2008 at 08:36 AM