411’s Buy or Sell 04.18.08: AOTF vs. MCMG, Ibushi Going Winless, F.I.S.T. Breakup, and More!

Posted by Samuel Berman on 04.18.2008

The 411 staff previews a weekend of ROH action and looks at some other pressing issues as Larry Csonka battles Samuel Berman in a special Super Sized edition!

Welcome everyone to WEEK FIFTY-TWO of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.


Week Fifty-Two's Match-Up:
Wrestling Zone Editor Larry Csonka vs. Buy or Sell Editor Samuel Berman !

Ring of Honor made the right decision by booking the Motor City Machine Guns against Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black in Detroit.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I think this is an easy buy. They did the deal over the Internet to hype the feud, and that is ROH's audience. Add onto that the fact that these are two good teams. We put these teams together in a match and we should have an excellent match. Basically they built the feud, it worked. They are in Detroit, MCMG territory. They should get a great match, which should lead to good DVD sales. So yes, buy indeed.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I'm selling this not because Jacobs & Black aren't great opponents for Shelley & Sabin, and not because it's not a good idea to showcase local talent, but rather because I think when you bring in a special attraction team like the MCMG you should always face them off with the highest profile teams in your company. In ROH right now, other than Jay & Mark Briscoe, the highest profile team is that of Kevin Steen & El Generico. Jacobs & Black are fantastic, but the fact of the matter is that Steen & Generico have a longer tenure as a team and are, at this moment, flat out bigger stars for ROH than Jacobs & Black. All that said, the match in Detroit is going to be absolutely amazing, surely building on the tremendous affair between the two teams in PWG a couple of years ago.

0 for 1.

The Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen rivalry will eventually include a three-way match for the ROH World Title that also includes Steen's partner El Generico.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I will buy this one again. Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen has, from what I can tell by following over the Internet been a pretty strong feud. Nigel is fun, I usually enjoy his matches and on top of that I am a huge Kevin Steen fan. He has really come along in recent months, and while he may not have been in the original plans to push, I think it has worked out damn well. And then you have Generico, who may be getting a push by association, but he works well in this. I think it is just inevitable that it happens. But while I agree that it will happen, I don't necessarily agree with it. It seems too expected, and it would be nice to see them continuing to try and offer us something different.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I wish the answer was yes here, but I think that if ROH was serious about elevating Generico along with Steen that they would have pulled the trigger on his ROH World Title shot last weekend in the Four Corner Survival in Boston. As such, though ROH clearly likes Generico as an upper mid-card guy to face off with import talent (Marufuji, Ibushi, etc.), he would appear to be on the outside looking in for the moment while Steen storms the main event scene.

0 for 2.

With them taking part in a pair of high profile tag team matches, Jay & Mark Briscoe should be defending their newly won ROH World Tag Team Titles at least once this weekend.

Larry Csonka : BUY . Jesus it's a fire sale and I am buying everything! Seriously though, this is an easy buy for me. They decided to make the move and put the tag titles BACK on the Briscoe Brothers, a move I didn't think that they needed to make at this time, but they did so that's what we have to work with. And since they did, ROH has to bite the bullet and give the fans a title match. For ROH the Briscoe's = $$$. Period. A hot Briscoe's match will make money, but adding the titles on the line in at least one of these matches also makes money and gives the people something that they can feel is special. Plus if they defend one night and lose another, you get an automatic title match down the line.

Samuel Berman : BUY . Yeah, I was pretty shocked when ROH announced that both of the Briscoes' matches this weekend would be non-title. This move will only be acceptable if it ends up becoming a storyline tool in the Age of the Fall's issue with the Briscoes. That is to say: Jacobs & Black had to defend their newly-won titles twice in Ultimate Endurance matches early in 2008, while Jay & Mark get a cushy weekend of non-title matches to celebrate their record fifth ROH World Tag Team Title reign.

1 for 3.

Kota Ibushi will finish his tour of ROH without a earning a victory.

Larry Csonka : SELL . Not a chance. ROH usually pushes the Japanese talent very well with a lot of wins. This is to make them believable to the fans that do not know them and to keep the office of whatever promotion they are working with happy, so that they can work with them again in the future. In this case though Ibushi isn't a huge star as compared to others that have come to ROH. Basically he is going to suffer a bit. The other thing this does is hopefully cast some doubt when a relative unknown Japanese talent comes to ROH. People won't automatically think he will win every match. But yeah, he should win a match before he departs. If he went without a win, I would be completely shocked.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I actually hope that I'm wrong here and that Ibushi has four outstanding showings that all end in losses. It actually has more to do with who he's facing than anything about him as a performer. I don't think having him go over the Briscoes makes any sense and I'm personally hoping that he doesn't go over El Generico in Chicago because I hate the idea that Generico can't win a high-profile singles match. If what I've seen of him from Japan is any indication, Ibushi will be able to impress ROH management and fans enough to earn a return trip to the U.S. even without earning a victory on this tour. That said, he's going to beat Generico.

2 for 4.

SWITCH~!

The rematch between Jay & Mark Briscoe and Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin will be a massive disappointment in comparison to their 2007 encounter.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I'm not sure that this year's match will be quite as good as the 2007 one was, but that's more a comment on that match being amongst the best tag matches ever than anything. The Briscoes and the MCMG are two of the top teams worldwide and assuming that Ring of Honor is willing to give them the time to develop a special match, and I think that's a fair assumption to make, then there's no way that these four will 'disappoint'. The real question now is whether a non-title win over the champions will be leverage enough storyline-wise to bring Shelley & Sabin back into the fold for a third and final match between the two teams. 2/3 Falls, anyone?

Larry Csonka : SELL . All right, two sells in a row, I won't go broke. But yea, Sammy has the basic point of this. The other thing is, and I hate to be picky with the question, but it says, "Massive Disappointment." Unless Mark falls on his head again, gets concussion 23, forgets he is a wrestler and starts singing, "I Feel Pretty" I doubt that the match will disappoint. Actually, the vision of Mark doing that would be pretty damn funny. But I expect these guys to have a really good match, hell maybe even another great match, but disappointing? No. I also like Sammy idea of the Guns winning and then coming back for a 2/3 falls match to close out the series. I'd buy that DVD. Just for reference, I had this to say about the match back on March 7th: The Murder City Machine Guns of Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin will be able to top last year's match with Jay & Mark Briscoe in one of their two upcoming ROH outings. SELL: This is not an insult to Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin, who I believe will be working their asses off to put on a good show. But I think that the match with the Briscoe's was a damn good match, and for them to top that match would take something really special. It is not out of the realm of possibility for them to do, but it will take an inspired effort from not only them, but also their opponents. But if they do top it, I will gladly admit to being wrong because I hope that they do top the previous match, because it is good for them as performers and great for the fans. Prove me wrong boys, please, prove me wrong.

3 for 5.

After a pair of no-shows, IWA Mid-South made the right decision in stripping Eddie Kingston of the company's World Heavyweight Title.

Samuel Berman : BUY . As big an Eddie Kingston fan as I am, there was really no other move for Ian Rotten to make in this case. Kingston's no-shows weren't exclusive to IWA Mid-South, as he has recently failed to appear on two separate occasions for PWG. The word out of IWA's camp is that Kingston has been dealing with some personal issues. If that's true, then it's the right move for IWA to push forward without him for the moment while he gets his house in order. The names being tossed around for the upcoming title tournament sound good too, so maybe all of this will end up being a blessing in disguise for IWA. And hopefully Kingston is able to get his personal issues in order and can return to work for IWA as well as the other Independents that he frequents.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I will not lie and proclaim to be a huge Kingston fan. I don't dislike him at all, but am not a huge fan like Sammy. And if he is having personal problems, then I wish him the best and hope that what ever those problems may be that he gets them cleared up. But the facts are this. In life all you really have at the end of the day is your word. If you agree to perform at these shows then you need to be there, especially if you are a champion of the promotion you are working for. If you cannot make the shows, then IWA-MS did the right thing. It is a business first, and they have to make money to keep going. That's hard to do when the champion, who was advertised doesn't come to shows. People feel ripped off and may not come back.

4 for 6.

[Editor's Note: For more discussion of Eddie Kingston's recent string of no-shows, please check out the newest edition of The Up & Under over at The Cool Kids' Table Dot Net.]

El Pantera will win the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title from Mike Quackenbush this Saturday on CHIKARA's Deuces Wild show.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I'm not sure who exactly does the booking for the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title, but I'd bet my rent money that it's not CHIKARA. El Pantera is still pretty solid in the ring, especially given his age, but even with his injuries I can't see anyone thinking that Quackenbush is a worse bet to have as champion going forward. What will be interesting to see is if CHIKARA plays off of Quackenbush's title win over Tiger Mask IV and has the perpetual technico go for Pantera's mask. Though that storyline would only work if the match were NOT contested under CHIKARA rules, where going for an opponent's mask is an automatic disqualification.

Larry Csonka : SELL . Not only do I not see it happening, but also I don't think that it shouldn't happen. I agree again with Sammy in that Pantera is a solid worker, he's fun to watch but I also feel that Quack is better than he is and should keep rolling with the title. I feel that the man to win the title from Quack is Lince Dorado. I said this a while back, actually, let's go back to March 7th again, this is what I had to say: Lince Dorado should have been set up as the challenger to Mike Quackenbush's NWA World Junior Heavyweight Title instead of El Pantera. BUY: Seriously, Dorado is money I think and should be the one to get the push and battle Quack for the title. I personally think that since they were winning the tournament that not only should he have made Kingston tap, which he did; but also HE should have been the one to pin Quack. I just think that he is the one to feud with Quack, not El Pantera.

5 for 7!

After their rematch for the Campeonatos de Parejas on Sunday, F.I.S.T. of Icarus & Gran Akuma will finally begin their long-awaited breakup feud.

Samuel Berman : BUY . I've been touting this theory for a while, and I think this is the most reasonable time for CHIKARA to pull the trigger on it. F.I.S.T. originally lost the titles when Akuma was injured and Chuck Taylor was forced to fill in for him against Incoherence. Having Akuma take the two losing falls in the title rematch, combined with Icarus scoring the winning pin in the other fall, would be the perfect impetus for Icarus and Taylor to turn on Akuma after the match, noting that he's not up to the F.I.S.T. standard. With Icarus & Akuma being the longest tenured tag team in CHIKARA, this singles feud is really uncharted territory for both men. In some ways I'd like to see Icarus as the face in the issue, but the truth is that I don't think the CHIKARA fanbase is willing to cheer him enough to legitimize that face-heel dynamic.

Larry Csonka : BUY . Damn Sammy, not only do I agree but you stole all the thunder, excellent analysis. Basically this is the time in my opinion, because it just makes the most sense. I always hate to see a good team break up, but the way that things have played out, I just cannot think of a better time to do it.

6 for 8!



The fifty-second edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 6 for 8. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.

[Editor's Note: As of next week, Michael Bauer will be taking over the editorial duties for Buy or Sell. I just wanted to take a moment to thank all of the writers who have participated in the column over the last year, as well as a the many readers who have taken the time to read Buy or Sell and send in their own thoughts.]