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Ask 411 Wrestling 04.23.08: Warrior Warrior, Rock vs. Hogan, Venis' Last Victory and More!
Posted by Steve Cook on 04.23.2008





It's time to Ask 411 Wrestling! I'm Steve Cook, and I welcome you to the best question and answer column on the Internet pertaining to professional wrestling since the days of "Ask Eric Young". Unfortunately EY's writing career jumped the shark when "Super Eric" took over.

Note to Jeff Small: I do read your column, but I didn't remember you using the sad panda reference recently. Seems like everybody's been using it lately (saw it in a Csonka column too), so I think we all need to back off from it for a while.

Weirdest thing about last week's column: That was not the Torrie Wilson picture I meant to use. I have no idea what happened with that.

Before we go much further, I would like to congratulate myself for coaching the Denny Cranes to the 411 07 B-Ball League Championship. In the rotisserie-style league, the Cranes finished in the top three in nine out of fifteen categories and led the league in five en route to a 11 point victory. They were led by top two draft selections Amare Stoudemire (10th) & Chris Paul (15th), who finished second and first respectively in Yahoo's season-long player ratings. So even if most of the other league owners stopped paying attention long before the season ended, they likely wouldn't have had much of a chance anyway. This is my first fantasy championship since 2005, when the Impact Playas won the TWTF fantasy football championship. I finished in third place in my other league, so it was a very successful fantasy basketball season for the King of Tomfoolery.

Now if my Death Reys can get something going in the staff baseball league, I'll have something to kill time with until football season.

And yes, I'm aware the previous two paragraphs solidify my status as a major-league dork. So?

There are many things to discuss, so let's get discussing. A special thanks to those of you who chimed in with information about TV ratings, which is something I don't have very much knowledge of. There aren't many things that I don't know a whole lot about, but that's one of them. Other things include women, Belgian literature, women, Antarctic sports, women and carnies. Oh, and women.

Comments, Corrections & Other "C" Words

Great job as always; in response to someone asking about Silverdust, I seem to remember hearing that the gimmick was slated for Barry Windham, in a nod to his former partnership with Dustin Rhodes in WCW. I believe this would be when Barry came in as the Stalker once the Silverdust idea was scrapped.Deuce

It would have made more sense for them to have that sort of gimmick for Windham than for Austin. Hell, anything would have been better than the Stalker.

In cases like this it is generally poor editing, however, here's something else to factor/consider:

In 1986-1988, I regularly attended shows in Phoenix, AZ when the WWF was doing monthly shows there. One time I got to go when the WWF was doing TV Tapings, and it was essentially a four hour house show, but with TV Cameras and lighting, etc. During those tapings, I remember seeing at least fours jobbers get squashed no less than twice during those tapings. Of course, this was all before kayfabe went out the window... and Terry Taylor was still the Red Rooster (UGH). While I was watching this unfold live, I remember thinking to myself "none of this makes much sense". About a month later, after seeing everything unfold on TV, I thought "ok, now it makes more sense..." After all, seeing Ricky Itaki get killed three times, and Barry Horowitz twice, during tapings didn't seem to make much sense then, as each time they came out, they looked pretty fresh. Keeping this in mind, it would not surprise me if they were airing "raw" or "close to raw" footage with minimal editing or proper sequencing. Another possibility is that the person editing/sequencing has little knowledge of wrestling and was just slapping crap together to fit into time slots. By the way, I may be aging myself a bit, but house shows today are NOTHING like they were back in the mid to late 80's... Just imagine... The (Original) Hart Foundation, The British Bulldogs, The Killer Bees (Ok, maybe not), Demolition, The Rockers, Hogan, Big Boss Man, One Man Gang, Tito Santana and Rick Martel, Bad News Brown, Hercules Hernandez, Sheri Martel and "Rockin' Robin" (yes, even the women traveled) and Howard Finkel doing the in-ring announcing (when the Fink was there, you KNEW you were at something special), just to name a few ALL at a TV taping/house show. There was no A team/ B team, or at least not like it is now... Anyway, there's my two cents on the AWA "editing"...
Caleb

The guy that asked if cable companies can track what he's watching? The answer is no. For one the ratings system was around long before the cable boom. The system was established in the 1940s, although it has been upgraded and updated over time. Like the Arbitron ratings for radio, the Nielsen ratings are done by a separate third party independent of the networks. Since the cable companies are in business with the actual stations that they show, it would be unethical for them to have any say in the tracking of ratings. For anyone who doesn't know, the ratings are what the stations use to set their advertising rates so if the data were skewed in any way it could have a huge impact on a station's revenue.

I know all this because I went to college for radio/TV and had a class covering the whole history of both industries. BTW, thanks for answering my questions. Funnily enough between the time I sent them and when you answered them I became a new writer on 411mania. I write the Saturday news report for the MMA zone. I don't know if you're into MMA or not but feel free to throw out a cheap plug!
411's Adam Tool

"This question isn't really wrestling related, but there was a lot of talk of ratings so I thought I would ask and see if anyone knew.

Are the ratings quoted each week from Nielson families only?"

**We are a Neilsen Family and television ratings that you see in the newspaper, to my knowledge, come straight from Neilsen Families only. Your Neilsen box sends out data to their home office after midnight and those numbers are then calculated into Ratings.

"Can cable and satelite companies track what I am watching?"

No idea. But in this age of Patriot Act hysteria, I wouldn't be surprised.

" I know if I call my cable company with a problem, they can click an icon and watch what I am watching on my TV at that time.

So, do they track what I'm watching and count that in their ratings?"

No. Ratings are strictly Neilsen only. Your cable company likely wouldn't even know that you are a Neilsen Family.

"And, if so, when do they track?"

Neilsen tracks in very short increments as their technology can tell exactly when you fast forward or switch to another channel. This is how WWE can gauge ratings based on quarter hours and see what matches get the biggest draw.

"If I set a timer to record AWA Wrestling on ESPN Classic at midnight, when that show is over, the channel stays on ESPN Classic until I wake up. Does that mean that according to the ratings, I watched Cheap Seats and so forth?"

No. Neilsen counts nothing when your television is off. They actually track your TV viewing through the sound. Thus, if your TV is muted, Neilsen reads your TV as off/muted. A digital signal sent through the sound allows Neilsen to know what show you watch.

"My TV wasn't on. If that is how it works, then when I leave for work after watching my morning news, the ratings will show that I watched Rachel Ray, People's Court, Soap Operas, News and so forth during the day when I'm not home."

See above. Those shows will get no ratings unless you leave your TV on all day with the sound up.

"Also, someone mentioned the Nielson boxes having buttons. My parents had a Nielson box for a short time. There were no buttons. Everything was installed in the back of the TV."

While I am not sure about buttons (likely reset buttons or test buttons) I can tell you that Neilsen boxes take a gaggle of cables to run. All TV's are routed into one box which send the info on to their home office.
Wemedgely

I have worked in the cable industry for the past 17 years and currently work for Comcast. I can tell you without doubt that:

1. Contrary to some beliefs, we do not have little cameras in the converter boxes so we can spy on you! Yes, we have been accused of this.

2. All ratings are gathered by Nielsen and you must register with them and be approved before you can be a Nielsen family. With the right equipment, they will know what you are watching when the signal goes through the equipment that they install in your home.

3. With the exception of a Pay Per View that you purchase and the Premium Channels (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc.) that you subscribe to, we have no clue what you are watching. If you call us with a problem on a specific channel, yes, we can turn to that channel or have someone in the headend (the building that transmits the signal) within your tune to that channel to check it for problems, but we have no way or interest in what you are watching.

Ratings are determined strictly by Nielsen and maybe a couple of other outside companies, but mostly by the Nielsen company.
Steven

A couple of things...

1) I think the main reason CM Punk doesn't use the Pepsi Plunge is it is too similar (perhaps better?) than a certain three initialed main eventers finisher.

2) That awful commentary team of Bruce Pritchard, Micke McGuirk and Pete Dougherty was actually Pritchard, McGuirk and "Duke Dougherty". "Duke" was really Pritchard doing a (terrible and annoying) heel commentator character. The name was a rib on the Duke of Dorchester, Pete Dougherty. Ona 24/7 old school house show from Houston, several times you can clearly see Pritchard and McGuirk sitting at the announce table with no third partner, despite 3 voices calling the show.

Keep up the good work.
Jeff

How on earth did Pritchard keep his job?

I've never had any of this confirmed but I always thought that if Booker had indeed been scheduled to win the belt and the decision was switched at the last second, it was because of Goldberg. He had just been signed and they started planning a HHH/Goldberg feud for Bad Blood (I think I even saw an official poster for it). It would make sense to build up a heel champion like HHH for Goldberg to beat instead of Booker T.

Plus, seeing as the World Title was still new at that point, it would probably be good to make the first champion (HBK's reign doesn't really count) have it for a really long time before losing it.
JJ

On John Cena's DVD, it is explained that Cena created the spinner belt for the
US Title and then for the WWE Title. He suggested the concept and it was
approved by Vince and the office.
Mina

Needs more PenguinConcerned Reader

I am keeping Penguin out of my columns until he lifts my ban from chatting with Mrs. Penguin.

Tori is a slut. A hot slut, but a slut regardless. She admitted as much in an
episode of Confidential. She said in high school she was always sneaking out to
meet boys and had a lot of boyfriends despite having protective older brothers.
Look at the way she has bed hopped since being in the wrestling business and
how she got her start. Kevin Nash "discovered" her and thought she
was a hot piece of ass who should be on Nitro. Having said all that, I'd be
more than willing to make a contribution to her sluttiness. Torrie, if you are
reading this, call me. Next time you battle bolemia I'll be more than happy to
come stick something down your throat.
Jerry Stubbs

Jerry was making some good points before he went all "Creepy Internet Stalker" on us.

I suppose you could count the Hollywood Blondes if you want to argue that Brian
Pillman was a main eventer before he died. But one huge example of tag team
partners both becoming main eventers would be the Blade Runners, Sting and the
Ultimate Warrior.
- Joel Yeomans

I would argue that none of those men became main eventers in the promotion where their tag teams competed. Austin had to leave WCW to get to that level (and as big a fan of Brian's as I am, I can't say he ever really got there), and Sting & Ultimate Warrior didn't get there until Warrior went to the WWF & JCP bought out UWF and started pushing Sting.

uhm, not all son's named david of famous wrestling fathers sucked, David Von
Erich was set to win the NWA title from Ric flair before he died...just an
FYI...
Just A Guest

OK, so there was one good one. But I hope Triple H doesn't name a future son David.

Didn't Earthquake eliminate Typhoon from 93 Rumble?Wrestlevessel

Indeed, that one slipped my mind.

I just wanna know why that weak ass, pointless, boring Fact or Fiction column
gets put up as the main attraction on the 411Wrestling page, but this awesome
column, which takes alot of time and effort, and is a very interesting read
doesnt?

Just wanted to air this out. Im sure every 411Wrestling reader will agree with
me.
- NickNitro

Fact or Fiction will not be weak ass, pointless or boring this week, because I will be a part of it. I can't speak for other editions though.

Questions!

Joel M.
starts us off with two questions…

I live in wisconsin and am a HUGE Green Bay Packers fan. I remember watching nitro sometime in its prime or a little bit after and they were either in milwaukee or green bay or some place like that. I don't remember who was in the main event or what happened but all i can remember was that some of the Green Bay Packers stood on the Nitro stage backing a wrestler up. Do you remember what happened? I know Gilbert Brown was one of the Packers for sure.

I believe you're thinking of the 12.6.99 edition of Nitro, where Brown, Santana Dotson & Jermaine Smith stood in the entranceway to prevent Jeff Jarrett from running away from Goldberg. The recap makes it sound like a complete clusterfuck that I'd have a very difficult time explaining…which was par for the course in WCW Russo-Style.

Also, if you could have your dream match of only technical wrestling specialists, who would be in it? Couple of mine would be Mr. Perfect versus Dean Malenko or Bret Hart versus Kurt Angle or Kurt Angle versus Hart versus HBK versus Mr. Perfect -Joel M

Karl Gotch vs. Lou Thesz.

What? Both were great ring technicians and I've never actually seen either of them in a complete match. BOOK IT GABE~!

Boy has two questions…

1. who was the first person to bodyslam andre the
giant. i seen hogan, warrior, and hansen do it.


Hansen slammed Andre in 1981…I'm not sure when Canek did it, but from the footage it looks like it could have been right around that time as well. Some say that Bill "Masked Superstar" Eadie was the first man to slam Andre, but I haven't seen footage or a date of when it happened. I would say it's one of those three.

2. who was the 1st wrestler to have a entrance theme song!

Depends who you ask (everybody claims they were the first), but I think the answer is Gorgeous George, who walked out to "Pomp & Circumstance" back in the 40s & 50s. Wikipedia claims it was a man by the name of Glen Stride, but I've never heard of him and wasn't able to find any information on him other than Wikipedia saying he was the first wrestler to use entrance music. Mildred Burke was also one of the first to use music.

I've been trying to dig up information on an old wrestling event I went to. Was trying to find out maybe what promotion it was. It was back around the late 80's early 90's. I don't think the promotion lasted long. It used to come on at 8am on Saturday mornings on a local Fox station. It had a young Ken Shamrock before WWE days and also had Nikita Koloff with hair. Baby Doll was in it as well as Nelson Royal whom I believe was a champ there. I don't think it was UWF as I believe the federation started with an A, but not real sure. Thanks for any help... – Dion from South Carolina

Ken Shamrock made his pro wrestling debut in 1990 in a promotion called South Atlantic Pro Wrestling that was based in Charlotte and run by former WWF booker George Scott. Judging from the fact that you're from South Carolina, that's probably the promotion you're thinking of. One of his trainers was Nelson Royal, as a matter of fact. Another wrestler who started out there was Chris "Tatanka" Chavis. I don't think SAPW lasted past 1991.

Edward has two questions…

While watching the ECW rise and fall dvd,i saw how they said that mick foley came over to ECW as part of some settlement between wcw and ecw.the question is what was the case that wcw and ecw were involved in that led to the settlement.

Tommy Dreamer was the person who told the story you talk about in your question. The story I always heard about it was what Foley himself said just before Dreamer's clip, that it was part of a talent-exchange deal that WCW was trying to do in order to establish a relationship with ECW. Kevin Sullivan also made several ECW appearances during this time period while he was a big part of WCW on and off camera. I have no knowledge of a lawsuit between ECW & WCW at this time period and tend to believe what Foley says about the reasoning behind it, that WCW was trying to establish a working relationship with ECW and the fans really wanted to see Cactus Jack vs. Sabu because of their general insanity and dislike for the rules.

Second question is Who was the first to use the F-5 finishing move?I know lesnar used it but i've heard people say kanyon was the first one to use it during the invasion angle.

Nova.

Seriously though, I can't remember anybody using it before Brock and I don't think Kanyon used it either. I'll throw it out there to our intelligent readers, and the unintelligent ones too.

I've casually wondered for years, is that a scar or weird tattoo on Booker T's right(?) shoulder? It looks like he got slashed by a knife or meat cleaver....

It is a keloid scar, which basically means that a scar on Booker's shoulder didn't heal properly and he ended up with that as a symbol. Get it…Matt Hardy…never mind. Stevie Ray also has these types of scars on his back. I am not aware of what caused Booker's scar.

Some keloids look downright disgusting and I was on the verge of vomiting after seeing them. Body stuff usually grosses me out.

Speaking of casual, I have become such a fan for the last three years. I think I've seen maybe four Raw shows, none of them in their entirety, zero SmackDown! or ECW shows, 3/3 Rumbles and 2/3 WrestleManias. I would have said 3/3 WMs, but since I am writing this on Thursday, and WM is on Sunday... Anyway, the point is, I used to watch Raw every week, tape it if I could to skip commercials, watch SD! when I could, and now I am, well, casual, only watching the BIG EVENT PPVs and read highligts on this site. Your opinion, please: given the timeframe, did WWE just get boring by comparison, am I just being a jaded bastard, or am I missing something cool and fun, like Rock/Austin/Jericho/Angle/Benoit, etc reborn in the forms of MVP, CM Punk, etc? – Paul from Canada

I don't think I can fairly answer this question because I am also a jaded bastard that doesn't much care for the new stuff and yearns for the days when men were men, women were women and the sheep were scared. I still watch most of Raw & Impact most weeks and catch ECW & Smackdown when I've either got nothing better to do or have to for 411 business, but I'm not as into it as I used to be. I love going to shows & watching DVDs though, so my fandom survives through ways other than watching the televised wrestling product.

I have to give credit for the numerous blogs Jim Ross does. While the Q&A answers are frequently redundant, the other blogs resembling the old "Ross Report" often have some interesting comments in them. The most recent one mentioned the original NWA belt Ric Flair showed on RAW and how many "wanted to touch the championship belt", but added, "It was also interesting to see who did not move out of their comfort zones and off their backsides and make the effort to walk over and actually see one of the most significant artifacts in wrestling history. I don't want to get started on this personal, pet peeve as this is too positive a week to let the apathy of some adversely affect me." JR makes this type of comment periodically. My question is, whom do you think he's referring to? If we stick w/just the RAW roster, I'll go w/London, Kendrick, Carlito, and definitely Jeff Hardy (although Hardy wasn't one of the ones in this case). All the Divas as well. – Paul

You know, I think JR's making something out of nothing with this complaint. If I was sitting backstage, I wouldn't be trying to get all up in Ric Flair's business and be like "Hey dude, let me touch your belt." It reminds me of a statement somebody made on a shoot interview (I want to say it was Jim Cornette but I'm not 100% sure) where they said they liked the business better when the marks weren't behind the curtain. I like JR's blog posts and many of them are entertaining, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. I think there are plenty of complaints about the younger WWE talent that are viable and correct in nature, but complaining about them not marking out over an old title belt…I don't get it.

Besides, Carlito already saw a real NWA title belt when his daddy beat Flair in Puerto Rico.

Liron had five questions, but I'm choosing to answer four of them this week and maybe save one for later.

Do you see CM punk getting a push to one of the two main titles somewhere between wrestlemania 24 to-25?

I said in a column a couple of weeks ago that Punk was one of two guys that could win a world title this year that hasn't already. That doesn't mean I think it will happen, it just means he has a better chance than other people on his level. I still think he's a couple of years away from getting a big-time push, and frankly the push he has right now is strong enough. I don't know why people complain about it…dude's appearing on a lot of shows, got a big win at WM, and has the MITB briefcase to play with. What more do you want? He's not going to win every match ever. And those of you who are convinced that Triple H is robbing him of his moveset and the "X" symbol…yeesh. I don't even know how to address that.

Which one on the young wrestlers that are now in the low midcard/midcard you think that can be successful in the future if they will be pushed?

Chris Jericho.

What?

To be honest, WWE's midcard doesn't do a whole heck of a lot for me these days. D.H. Smith looked like he had some potential a couple of years ago but hasn't been too impressive since coming to WWE. Trevor Murdoch & Lance Cade could both be useful if they were utilized in ways that emphasized their strengths. Jamie Noble is very talented but I don't see them ever doing anything with him. Paul London & Brian Kendrick have the skills, but do they have the charisma? Not sure.

In your opinion, is there any TNA/ROH wrestler that can move to the WWE and succeed there? Chris Hero maybe?

TNA (not counting wrestlers that already worked there on a regular basis):
AJ Styles
Curry Man/Christopher Daniels
James Storm
LAX
Motor City Machineguns

ROH:
Nigel McGuinness
Claudio Castagnoli

There are certainly more wrestlers I could list here, but I'm trying to be strict here. If Colin Delaney can get over, a lot of people in TNA & ROH could as well. I also think most of the TNA Knockouts could do a lot better in WWE than most of the Divas are.

Do you see ROH getting a weekly TV show in the near future?

I heard a rumor awhile back that they were in talks with Versus to air a one hour weekly TV show, but nothing has come from it yet. Another rumor says that ROH owner Cary Silkin is optimistic that a TV deal will come soon.

Steve- It's my opinion that 2 hours of weekly television is what has killed the tag team divisions within WWE. Back when all we got was the main guys against jobbers, and they could drag feuds out over several months, the tag divisions thrived, but with the near absence of jobbers and all the TV time where feuds get rushed, we end up seeing guys who are feuding face off in tag team style matches on free TV so they can save the singles encounter for PPV. Thus WWE has de-emphasized the tag divisions because if they didn't, most of the TV matches would be tag matches. This is my theory. What do you think? – Rob

I've said it before and I'll say it again…the reason WWE doesn't push tag teams is that they see more money in singles wrestlers. There's really nothing more to it than that, and I think people that spend way too much time trying to come up with theories behind the death of the tag team division or why the Intercontinental & US titles don't mean anything anymore need to find something else to worry about. No offense.

has anyone interviewed Kevin Sullivan regarding the
tragic events of last summer involving his ex wife,
and at any point was he a suspect? – Jones


Sullivan was quoted in a New York Times article about the murders shortly after they happened…

"I'm in the dark," said Kevin Sullivan, a former professional wrestler who was previously married to Nancy Benoit. "I wrestled with him a lot. I thought he was a great performer."
Mr. Sullivan added, "Last night when I found out, it was shocking, just shocking."


He was never considered a suspect by anybody except obsessive wrestling fans and crazy televangelists. Kevin married a woman named Linda and they have a son who was born in December 2006. Any bitterness he had towards the ending of his marriage with Nancy seems to have faded away with time.

Nelson has two Warrior Warrior related questions…

I seem to remember a Saturday Night's Main Event from around 1990 where the
Ultimate Warrior defended the WWF title in a fairly well-hyped match
against a new Mr. Fuji protege, Super Ninja. Warrior promptly squashed the
Ninja and he was never heard from again. Did this really happen? If so,
who was Super Ninja and why was he a one night wonder?


Mr. Fuji's Super Ninja was none other than Rip Oliver, who is mostly known for his work in the Portland territory throughout the 1980s. Rip didn't really have the kind of physique that WWF liked to promote, so I think that's a pretty safe guess as to why he didn't stick around longer. Your memory of the match is somewhat flawed, as it took place in November 1988 and Warrior was defending the Intercontinental Title in the match.

Also, with opponents such as Super Ninja fed to the Warrior on a national
stage, is anyone surprised that his title reign failed? I mean, I was 10
years old at the time and I remember Warrior being much more popular than
Hulk Hogan amongst my friends so I was always baffled how this title reign
failed so miserably.


I know WWF officials at the time were surprised. With hindsight being 20/20, I don't think many people are surprised that Warrior flopped as a champion. He had some pretty good opponents to work with, as he wrestled guys like Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase & Sgt. Slaughter during his title reign. I think the main problem was that he was basically doing the same things Hulk Hogan had done for years and he wasn't Hulk Hogan. Warrior definitely had his fans, but Hogan had the majority of the public behind him, and they didn't take well to what they felt was a second-rate version of their wrestling hero. I think anybody would have failed in that slot, and when you take into account Warrior's sub-par wrestling skills…well, that's just icing on the cake.

Nick has four questions…

1.) I was reading an article on 411 earlier and there was talk about crime tyme's return. What exactly was the reason they were let go? Also, having them back, and showing Kendrick and London with a win on Raw, do you think that Raw could be bringing back the tag team division? I mean I could be wrong, but the tag division has been terrible and pretty much non-existant lately.

From the 10.10.07 edition of this very column…

The word is that Cryme Tyme got into a verbal altercation with Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch while planning a match at a house show in early September. Threats were made by Cryme Tyme, so Murdoch & Cade had the match cut short to keep potential problems from happening. Cryme Tyme were not happy and did their finisher on the referee after the match and auctioned off his belt. They protected the ref during the move, but it did not go over well with the powers that be. They got fired the next day at the Raw taping. I never bought into the Cryme Tyme hype, but people that did shouldn't worry…WWE brings everybody back eventually.

As Mr. Perfect would say, I'm not the kind of guy to say "I told you so"…but I told you so!

2.) I was watching the HHH dvd and i noticed there were some matches where he was wearing black shorts instead of the normal tights that he usually wears, was there a specific reason for this wardrobe change?

Triple H suffered a groin injury in early August 2003 and wore longer shorts for a period of time after the injury for reasons involving comfort. I don't think I need to get into the details.

3.) With Wrestlemania XXV being in Texas next year, what are the likes that you feel we could see a Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker Title match? I was thinking maybe a hell in a cell, but then I thought they already did that previously and it might not be the smart thing to do the same match again. Do you think we could see this matchup?

I think there's a greater possibility of seeing Michaels vs. Taker than there is of seeing Steve Austin in a match. I have to chuckle when I see people fantasy book these outrageous scenarios for WrestleMania every single year and they never come to pass. How many years have people been calling for Hogan vs. Austin? It's not going to happen, and that's the bottom line because Steve Cook said so. Michaels vs. Taker…maybe. If they don't have some big guy on the horizon they want to feed Taker or have Taker put over.

4.) Why exactly happened to Rikishi? And why did he leave WWE? I didn't know much about his situation, I saw him in TNA for a couple shows under Junior Fatu but I dont' know exactly why he got done with WWE.

Rikishi was released in July 2004 after several requests from WWE for him to lose weight were either ignored or not met with compliance. Since then he has competed all over the world, including places like Italy, Japan & TNA. He books Nu Wrestling Evolution in Italy, which is featuring the return of Warrior Warrior to active competition. Yay?

Why do you think The Rock faced Hogan at WM 18 instead of Austin? - TheMidnightPunk

There are more similarities between Rock & Hogan than there are between Austin & Hogan. Rock had more upside at the time than Austin did, and they were thinking that Hogan would be putting over the future of their company when he did the job for Rocky. I don't think Austin was on their list of people to push heading into WrestleMania because he was pretty cantankerous about things at the time. I think Hogan & Rock had a better relationship than Hogan & Austin did. Frankly, I think Rock vs. Hogan was more marketable at that time. All of these factors added up to Hogan vs. Rock instead of Hogan vs. Austin at WrestleMania X-8.

hey steve. you have probaly answered this b4 but wot ever happend to the smoking skull belt? – Ian

I am told that the original Smoking Skull belt is at WWE headquarters in Stamford, Connecticut, where it is displayed with other novelty belts like the Million Dollar belt.

I just finished reading your latest column from 3/26 and a question about Finlay prompted me to watch some of his matches on youtube. I watched a match between him and Satoshi Kojima (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ADb9cCEb4rs) . There were about a million rope breaks in the match (probably due to the ring being so small), which got me thinking. Does anyone know how the rope break became a rule in pro wrestling? Come to think of it, do we know where any of the rules were established? The 5 count, the 10 count outside the ring and when both men are down, the tag rope, all are just accepted as rules. Did the old NWA sit down at some point and write this is some kind of wrestling rules bible? I would assume that the rules were made up by the promoters who running matches at carnivals when all this was originally spawned, but I would love hear your take on it. Thanks and keep up the good work. – Chris "The Smog" Thez

Most of the modern pro wrestling rules were established by Toots Mondt in the mid to late 1920s. I can't say for sure that he instituted the rule of the rope break, but most of the rules and match constructions can be dated back to his innovations at that time, which transformed pro wrestling from a somewhat tedious sport with overly long and dull matches into exciting events that enraptured the public. The book "Ringside: A History of Professional Wrestling in America" by Scott M. Beekman discusses Mondt, Ed "Strangler" Lewis & Billy Sandow's contributions to wrestling in great detail and I highly recommend that you read it.

Hey, quick question.... When was the last time that Val Venis actually won a match? Seems like every time I see him is on the losing end of squashes. – Alex

I could answer this with a Heat match from March, but I thought it would be more fun to see when was the last time Val won a match on Raw or PPV. The last time Val Venis won a match on Raw was November 21, 2005. He defeated Triple H by disqualification when H hit him repeatedly with a steel chair. He has won some matches on Heat since then, but Heat doesn't count no matter what Scott Slimmer will tell you.

I'm wondering what the biggest rejection ever by a crowd was. What I mean is a match that the audience just rejects out of hand, or where the crowd decides to go against the booking.

For me, I think the biggest has to be Lesnar/Goldberg from WM 20. The Garden crowd took turns booing both men, the match, and I believe the wwe itself, until Stone Cold Stunned both of them to put the match out of its misery.

You could make an argument for RVD's win over Cena at One Night Stand, but to me, the crowd did exactly what the WWE wanted.

I think it's a unique sort of unspoken group decision that in part, just wants to throw a monkeywrench in the works. At WM 24, the first couple of rows apparently decided they would cheer Umaga and even chant for him. I almost thought I could see him crack a smile during the match. I guess he was surprised as well. – Mike G.


I think WWE expected Goldberg & Lesnar to get booed out of the building once it became public knowledge that both men were leaving WWE after the show. To answer your question, I have to go with the ending of Austin vs. Rock at WrestleMania X-Seven. Stone Cold joined forces with the evil Vince McMahon, a man he had feuded with for years and hated with the fire of a thousand suns, just so he could be champion again. He and Vince should have been booed out of the building for their attack on the Rock, and they may have been if they weren't in Texas. Instead the fans continued to cheer Austin and popped huge when he won the title. They didn't boo when Austin & Vince shook hands, for heaven's sake! Austin's heel turn took a long time to catch on, and he never reached the level of hatred that they were hoping for, so I have to rank that as the biggest rejection of something by a wrestling crowd.

Well, that's all we have time for this week. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or porn, send 'em to scook411@hotmail.com. If you'd prefer to sound off in the comments section that's cool too. Until next time, boooooooooooohica!


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Comments (44)

 
i dont know why fans keep on insisting on seeing austin vs hogan. austin's neck is as sturdy as a stack of dimes. even a bodysslam from the decrpit hulkster could possibly result in permanent paralysis for the rattlesnake. then you have the immortal one who is not getting any younger. the build up would be great but the match itself would be a trainwreck.

Posted By: reh629 (Registered)  on April 23, 2008 at 11:43 AM

 
 
Hey Cook,
As far as who was the first to use the F-5, I think Mark Jindrack did it on one of the first nights of the Invasion angle. I can't remember who he did it to, but it happened after the WCW/ECW guys had beaten down a couple of WWF/E guys.


Posted By: Exodus (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 12:00 PM

 
 
Thanks for the answers! :)

Posted By: Liron (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 12:08 PM

 
 
Last column in the comments section I wrote:

"I'd imagine CM Punk's finisher change had a lot to do with the Pepsi Plunge
being a Pedigree from the top rope. That would have completely upstaged Triple
H. Hell, Punk wasn't even allowed to flash the Straight Edge sign because
making an 'X' with your arms was DX territory."

Interpreting that as me saying "Triple H has robbed CM Punk of his moveset and the 'X' symbol" is highly presumptuous.


Posted By: Chris (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 12:13 PM

 
 
i like the column, BUT:
there's a trend developing that you bring up questions like "in your opinion...", or "who/what/where/how do you think/see/feel...", and i'd like to see more questions answered, not statements made


Posted By: casual_monday_mayhem (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 12:29 PM

 
 
I remember Harley Race being billed in the late 70's or early 80's as the first person to slam Andre.

Posted By: JeremyL (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 12:30 PM

 
 
i was at the raw event in sheffield when Val beat HHH by DQ. Funny thing was they didn't announce that Val won over the microphone.

Posted By: sailorman (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 12:52 PM

 
 
RE: Caleb


Dude... back in those days... you actyally had an A team, a B team, AND a C team... and WWF would run 3 tours at once, and each of those tours would work 6 days a week and twice on sundays. Think about that. 21 live gates a MONTH.

It only seems like house shows were awesome in those days because the WWF had a FAR deeper and more interesting roster than they do now.

Who would you rather see... a B-team tag match between The Harts and Demolition..

Or a C team tag match between the Rouceaus and Bulldogs...

Or an A team tag match between... Cade/Murdoch and Cryme Tyme...


It's no fucking contest.


Posted By: Rollz (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 01:11 PM

 
 
what about robert roode. he's got the tools to make it in the wwe. IMO.

Posted By: pat (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 01:15 PM

 
 
Sean O'Haire did an F-5 to Bradshaw on Heat a few weeks before Brock Lesnar's debut. Not sure of the exact date.

Posted By: Rob (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 01:55 PM

 
 
I believe Rikishi was let go because he had some sort of eye surgery without telling WWE. All the sudden he couldn't work for a few days and they were pissed he didn't have the common sense to clear the surgery with them. Seems like I read that here on 411 when it happened-

Posted By: Gu3st (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 02:26 PM

 
 
Stone Cold according to the wrestling observer was asked if he wanted the match against Hogan first but did'nt want anything to do with it because he knew of Hogans political ways, thats why it then became the Rock vs Hogan and why the Austin vs Hogan match will never happen!!! well never say never!!!

Posted By: lobeylobes (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 02:27 PM

 
 
Didn't Test use some variation of the F5 way before Lesnar arrived in WWE?

Posted By: Guest#9585 (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 03:04 PM

 
 
dont forget during his austin's ecw days, he did shoot promos saying how hogan treid to bury him.(aka steveamania is running wild)

Posted By: jd (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 03:31 PM

 
 
keltoid scars result from gang members getting cut to create "gang scars".

Posted By: HoosierJim500 (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 03:51 PM

 
 
For the last question as far as fan rejection goes, I woud've actually gone with WM22 with Triple H vs Cena. Don't you think Cena (the face) should've been cheered while Triple H (the heel) would've been booed?

Posted By: Kristian (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 03:53 PM

 
 
Wildcat/Marvelous Marc Mero?

Posted By: Sable's future Ex (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 05:37 PM

 
 
now, if there were issues with jobbing if say wm18 were scsa vs hogan, what were the issues? hogan jobbed anyway.. would it have mattered if it were austin or rock?

Posted By: Pat (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 05:38 PM

 
 
ive seen a video on youtube where brock lesnar talks about how he invented the f-5.

Posted By: w\ARXDFUBHYRTUI (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 06:05 PM

 
 
Both Hogan and Austin today are wrecks and they strongly dislike each other, while Hogan and Rock have, according to them both, very good relationship which dates back to the days when Hogan would travel with Rock's daddy and little Rocky would sometimes hang with them.

Posted By: Guest#1072 (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 06:08 PM

 
 
I remember Brian Adams doing the f-5 in a match when he was in the NWO b-team.

Posted By: murph (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 07:48 PM

 
 
Chris: You're far from the only person I've heard make statements along those lines, and the people who tell me that seem bitter that Punk isn't getting a bigger push and think that he's being held back. I don't think that could be further from the truth, he's done very well for himself and just because he doesn't win every match ever doesn't mean somebody's holding him back.

Pat: Roode has been on my shitlist ever since the never-ending feud with Eric Young that did nothing but annoy me. He does kind of remind me of a young Val Venis in his look and ring-style...but we know where that's gotten Val in WWE lately.

Kristian: WWE already knew Cena was going to get booed and Triple H was going to get cheered. That's why the match was built up the way that it was, with JR in particular hyping H as the favorite among the wrestling purists.


Posted By: Steve Cook (Registered)  on April 23, 2008 at 07:50 PM

 
 
Hogan slammed Andre in 1980 at Shea Stadium.

Posted By: Casey (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 08:02 PM

 
 
I just knew someone would mistake Marc Mero's TKO for the F-5. Close, but no cigar.

Posted By: G-Walla (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 08:35 PM

 
 
Hey Cook, I got a correction. The Duke Doherty character wasn't Bruce Prichard, it was a real guy. Pete Doherty, who apparently was an older. He just appeared on an episdoe of PrimeTime Wrestling on 24/7, where he took Alfred Hayes spot on commentary with Gorilla Monsoon. He is the most annoying commenter ever, by the way. But he wasn't just a voice of Bruce Prichard.

Posted By: MP (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 09:09 PM

 
 
Chris -

In regards to the Pepsi Plunge/finisher change:
-Punk switched it long before he came to the E. Maybe not long before, but definitely towards the end of his Indy run. He did so to protect his knees, not because HHH made him.


Posted By: Mike (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 09:44 PM

 
 
Am I the only one who hates hogan and austin.

How can anyone like either guy?

Hogan-Held everyone back and lusts after his own daughter.

Austin-BEAT HIS WIFE AND YOU MARKS STILL CHEER FOR HIM? WTF?


Posted By: TheFutureIsRoode (Guest)  on April 23, 2008 at 11:32 PM

 
 
As far as the rejection matches, the invasion match between buff bagwell and booker t is right up there. the crowd ate them alive.

Posted By: Irvin (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 12:27 AM

 
 
In reguards to the spinner title i heard it was actually Chris Kanyon who suggested it to Cena and Cena suggested it to WWE... I think Kanyon and Cena are friends?

Posted By: Not So Random Guest #2034 (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 02:52 AM

 
 
kanyon was using he F5 in WCW loooong before the invasion. Maybe even when he was still Mortis.

In the early smackdown playstation games the F5 was called a "Test Neckbreaker" so im assuming that Test has used it before?


Posted By: blow (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 04:41 AM

 
 
There's the "Bodyslam me boss!" story about Andre which I think is from the 70s. It's mentioned in one of the Observer's books (100 Greatest Pro Wrestlers Of All Time I think) and I can't find my copy.

Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 04:58 AM

 
 
On the rules topic, I just thought this was cool: on the latest Nitro to be put up on 24/7 (7/7/97, I think), Tony Schiavone is talking about rules and he mentions something very interesting. He said that back in the old days, there was a limit to the amount of saves a wrestler could make for his tag partner. I think the number was five. He might have mentioned where the rule came from, but I can't remember. I know that was not what the guy asking the question wanted to know, but it was pretty interesting none the less. :)

Posted By: Guest#5289 (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 05:15 AM

 
 
Short-lived bodyguard to Simon Diamond Dick Hertz used the F5 in 1999/2000

I miss him.


Posted By: Maffew (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 07:35 AM

 
 
Bryan Adams was using the F-5 during the Kronik days. Def. the first person I saw do it.

Posted By: DrewIceCold (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 10:35 AM

 
 
Hogan Slammed Andre In Hamburg PA on Sept 13 1980 on the Hogan Anthology Set.The commentary didn't seemed that impressed so I am guessing that was not the first time that happened.

Posted By: Guest#6907 (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 10:36 AM

 
 
I always heard that Rikishi was out due to injury, and during that time he wrestled for his familys Samoan wrestling company or something, and took several independent bookings. When this happened WWE let him go for breaching the contract. Maybe I dreamt it...

Posted By: A.G. Awesome (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 11:06 AM

 
 
Test used a version of the F5 similar to Lance Hoyt's. He fell to his knees and only used it a couple of times. Sean O'hare used it a couple of times, but always spun before it, like an Airplane Spin. Brian Adams was using it when in the NWO and Kronik before the Full Nelson Slam became his big move. He and Clarke had moves that were similar to each other. Clarke had the Death Penalty and Meltdown while Adams used the Full Nelson Slam and the F5, which was always unnamed.

Posted By: Jeff (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 11:09 AM

 
 
"Hogan-Held everyone back and lusts after his own daughter."

ROTFL! Whatever shit did you smoke to come up with that?


Posted By: Guest#3657 (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM

 
 
i have the night when ECW joined the Invasion Angle on tape, and i can say for certain the Sean O'Haire used the F-5 that night on Bradshaw i believe

Posted By: xjasondagx (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 03:00 PM

 
 
Punk used the Pepsi Plunge to win the ROH title. That was 6 shows before Punk: The Final Chapter, his last ROH apperance (Unscripted II withstanding). He went for the move a couple of times during those 6 shows but never hit it. If he hit it in developmental, I don't know, but I belive when he used it on Aries was the last time.

Harley Race was the 1st slam Andre. Theres a video of it that I' own that my Dad gave me from years ago where he gets Andre up, holds him for almost 5 seconds before completing the slam. That was mid to late 70's, and should make him 1st.


Posted By: Zeke (Guest)  on April 24, 2008 at 11:58 PM

 
 
I remember Summerslam in 2002 when it was Rock Vs Brock. The crowd booed the shit out of the Rock, maybe because he was leaving again? I remember Rock looking so pissed so he resorted to his awesome heel ways. dunno it's one example of a crowd turning on someone?

Posted By: JM (Guest)  on April 25, 2008 at 02:09 AM

 
 
Ive got a couple of questions
1: I read on wikipedia that randy orton was put in military prison for disobeying a commanding officer and two other occasions, what were they?
2:why isnt jericho defending the intercontinental title? he wins it from hardy because of the hardy's drug abuse, and now he's just carrying it around with no contenders, whassup with that?
3:does kurt angle have shares in tna? is that why he is always in the main event competing for the main title? what about the tomko vs angle showdown and what about other wrestlers who've been in tna longer than angle? dont they deserve a shot?


Posted By: Kendra (Guest)  on April 25, 2008 at 10:04 PM

 
 
- William regal has stated that danielson has an open door waiting for him at the WWE. But amdrag wants to travel and perfect his art.

- sable/ mark mero both used a variation of the f5 called the TKO.

- great American bash 91, - the crowd no sold the entire show


Posted By: Eddie chicgo (Guest)  on April 26, 2008 at 02:24 AM

 
 
For Booker's scars - story that came out of WCW that he (and Stevie-Ray who also has them) that it's from an operation to reduce sweating (cutting a gland somewhere behind shoulders)

Posted By: 4dayslater (Guest)  on April 26, 2008 at 07:31 AM

 


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