411 Fact or Fiction 5.01.08: Randy Orton Losing the Title, TNA’s Deuces Wild Tag Team Tournament, Matt Hardy’s US Title Win and More!

Posted by Larry Csonka on 05.01.2008

Week ONE HUNDRED and SEVENTY-SIX features TG Corke, Mike Chin and discussion of TNA’s World X Cup!

Welcome back to another week of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week, two 411 writers go to battle as TG Corke enters the 411 Arena to do battle with Mike Chin!

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1. It was a mistake to take the WWE Title off of Randy Orton at Backlash.

TG Corke : FICTION. I don't necessarily think the title switch was a mistake, but I have very mixed feelings about the execution of it. When JBL was introduced to the triple-threat formula of Orton, Triple H and Cena, I assumed he was there to take the pinfall so that none of the 'big three' had to be damaged. Instead, they decided on an elimination match, which had the potential the kill the momentum of three people all at once. Thankfully, they did it about as well as possible - Cena gets a needed victory over the relatively worthless Bradshaw, Orton quickly gets another pin on Cena to show he was a decent champion, and then Triple H gets his only fall of the match.

While I would have liked to have seen Randy hold onto the belt for a bit longer, the change works for a couple of reasons. The first is that it gave Backlash a big feel, something it sorely lacked the last several years including last year when it was the best event WWE held but drew a very low buyrate. The second reason the switch makes sense is that it's happened late enough in Orton's reign (just over six months) to erase the 'transitional champion' label he may have had, but it's also taken place early enough in the year for the WWE title match at Summerslam to get a good, solid build. I imagine Cena/Triple H will take center-stage there, so a rematch or two with Orton while continuing to keep his tensions with Cena at the forefront could lead to a great payoff.

On a final note, it also prevents Orton from garnering 'Cena heat' or 'JBL heat' through no fault of his own. I don't think there was any danger of that happening just yet, but it certainly won't now.

Mike Chin : FACT. Tentative fact on this one. Orton had been doing a respectable job as champion. The RKO and concussion kick are each as over as they've ever been, and he's been fitting into the JBL mold of 'champion who outlasts everybody else' pretty nicely.

Fact of the matter is, as much as Orton retaining the title at Wrestlemania was a surprise, I thought it was the wrong move, because it denied the fans the Wrestlemania moment of Cena or Triple H striking gold. I was ready to accept it, though, with the understanding that WWE had longer term plans for Orton as champion. With Triple H taking the title just one month later, it demonstrates that there were not long term plans for Orton as champion, which means that the booking of the WWE title at Wrestlemania was just there for the sake of surprising people. That's the kind of thinking that Vince Russo's been chastised for years.
I'm keeping the "tentative" in my fact, though, for three reasons. One, I want to keep an open mind about where this is going. Two, Orton had, pretty much, been through all of the main event level faces, so some shake-up was in order. And three, with Orton's latest spazz-fest in the European hotel, this may have been a punishment, which I can't really disagree with.

Score: 0 for 1


2. The TNA "Deuces Wild Tag Team Tournament" is a good idea.

TG Corke : FICTION. I'm very torn on this. So much so, in fact, that Natalie Imbruglia would probably call me an 'emo prick'. What a bitch. But anyway, I like the fact that they're making the titles mean something again. While AJ and Tomko are a cool team and good to have as champions, they seldom defended the titles and are more often than not involved in their own individual battles (AJ vs. Kurt, Tomko vs. Christian), so it makes sense to get the belts away from them. However, the tournament itself is very polarizing.

Here's what I don't understand, and I'm sure there will be criticisms that this way of thinking is "too smarkish", but I'm afraid the point has to be made when championships are involved. You've got eight tag teams facing each other, in order to qualify for the tournament. Four of those teams will win and go on to face four teams of randomly selected peers. Why couldn't they just, you know, have the eight pre-existing teams contest the tournament to start with? Ok, some of those teams are far from suitable champions, but that doesn't matter, only one team is going to win the damn thing, anyway. It's just another example of TNA trying too hard to cause a stir, putting 'shocks' and 'swerves' over the in-ring storytelling and the prestige of their top prizes. And all so they can kick off a Booker T/Sting feud that they could just as easily have run anyway. Besides, when do LAX get the title match that I thought they'd won? Or have they had it, already?

So, while I appreciate that they're trying something different to make the tag division mean something, they're shooting themselves in the foot with the stipulations almost demanding a new team gets the win over those who've been struggling to get themselves on the map for the last several months.

Mike Chin: FICTION. Take out the words 'Deuces Wild' and just leave it at "Tag Team Tournament," and I'm happy. After Styles and Tomko have held the belt for months, I think it was high time the company hit the reset button, and have non-makeshift teams go to war over the belt. A tournament's a perfect opportunity to create some tag team rivalries, and really get one team over as legitimate champions (Motor City Machine Guns, anyone?).

With all of that being said, I hate the added piece that half of the teams have to qualify for the tournament through a structured process—and the other half are random guys thrown together for the hell of it. What? This is lazy, random booking. I understand the benefit of getting more guys on the card, but this structure is just silly. Imagine if the NBA Playoffs worked this way—the top eight teams, by record make the playoffs, and then there's a lottery and random assortments of twelve guys form eight other teams to compete them. No one would take the league seriously after this kind of nonsense. Pro wrestling can afford many more liberties than normal pro sports, but that doesn't mean they should take every liberty at every opportunity. This should be a straight and narrow, basic tag team tournament. Or, they could go to the opposite extreme, and use something like the Battle bowl style of competition. This in between stuff is just crap.

Score: 1 for 2


3. Matt Hardy's US Title win does not mean as much as it would have 6-months ago.

TG Corke : FICTION. If the question had been whether it would have meant more at Wrestlemania, I'd say fact. If the question had been whether it could have done with an extra month or two of rebuild, I'd say fact. However, there is no way that this could have any better last October, while MVP and Matt were tag team champions together and taking part in pay-per-view pizza-eating competitions and sneezing on chess pieces.

Think of what we've seen in the last six months alone! In the last six months, we've seen them lose the titles due to MVP's arrogance, then MVP brutally attack Matt's knee which, kayfabe, left him on the shelf for months. But in reality, Matt's appendix burst between the injury angle and a scheduled Survivor Series tag match, so in fact Matt would almost certainly have had to FORFEIT the US title almost immediately after winning it had he done so. And now, we've come back round to Matt screwing MVP out of the Money in the Bank briefcase, getting his momentum back, and taking that title that - thanks to the lack of a switch in the last six months - was just three weeks short of a year-long stay with MVP.

I know most of that is said with the benefit of hindsight on my side, but I really don't think it matters. A heat-filled win for a healthy, recuperated Matt Hardy against the third-longest reigning United States Champion of all time is miles better than what they could have done back in October.

Mike Chin : FICTION. Time did wear away a bit of the luster from Matt Hardy's title win, as the program between him and MVP is not quite as hot as it was six months ago. With that being said, I would contend that time has also gone a long way toward making this title win, and the journey to it, seem more epic. Fans can remember this program through the initial feud, the tag team run, the silly competitions, injuries, Hardy spoiling MVP's Money in the Bank hopes, all the way up through last night's title win. While the delays were outside of WWE's control, they did actually succeed in helping the promotion build one of its longest running feuds in years, and I'd say the Backlash pay off was pretty darn meaningful in its own right.

Score: 2 for 3

---SWITCH~!---

4. TNA's "Britney Makeover" Battle Royal/Ladder Match is one of the worst ideas you have ever heard.

Mike Chin : FICTION. As someone who does not like lame pop culture references in wrestling, and looks down upon convoluted booking, you would think I would have big problems with this contest. Strangely enough, I kind of like it.

Granted, having a battle royal lead into a ladder match is more complicated than the match needs to be. And yet, if executed well, this match has the potential to capitalize on a lot of different types of potential. A battle royal is a natural way to get more performers on the card. This is a good thing. Battle royals are common enough that they're no longer a draw, in and of themselves, so adding a new stipulation is a good thing. I don't think I've ever seen a women's ladder match. Given that TNA's women are competent enough to pull one off, that's pretty appealing too. And it only makes sense that if you're going to have an all-roster match, a title or title shot is going to be on the line.

As for the head shaving, I think this works too. Granted, it makes more sense to just let this be a separate stipulation for a separate match, and not blow your entire load of ideas in this one outing. But putting that aside, there is a certain intrigue to matches where hair is on the line, and this match adds a new dimension, because it could be any woman on the roster who gets the clippers.

Long story short, this match is way more complicated than it needs to be, but it also has the potential to be quite entertaining. Problematic? Yes. Worst idea ever? Hardly.

TG Corke : FICTION. This isn't even one of the worst ideas I've heard THIS YEAR. Granted, the name is so out of touch with the current climate of celebrity culture that it's ridiculous (plus, when did the idea of a female shaving her head become something exclusive to Britney Spears?), and it seems a bit harsh that the woman who loses the ladder match that she's just qualified to participate in would be punished while all the unsuccessful battle royal attendees get off scot-free - just like how AJ Styles had to wear a turkey suit for losing a match he was only even able to wrestle by winning a previous match. Also, Molly Holly already did this at Wrestlemania four years ago. That's a small point, though.

But overall, this would have to be a calamity the scale of Mike Awesome/Vampiro at Halloween Havoc to justify calling this one of the worst ideas. And even then, it would be an after-the-fact thing to say it. Compared the Human Torch, the AWA Tag Team Challenge Series, the Gobbledy Gooker, Mae Young's pregnancy, TWO Ric Flair heart attack angles, and David Arquette...this angle looks like Raven/Dreamer in comparison.

Besides, the match itself should end up being decent fair, which is more than you could say for something like Kennel From Hell or Trump/Rosie which were always going to die on their arses.

Score: 3 for 4


5. Now that more details have come out, you agree that Michael Hayes deserved to be suspended for his recent actions.

Mike Chin : FACT. This is very, very tricky. From a booking perspective, it's not in WWE's best interests to bench Hayes for any period of time, because the guy has proven himself to be quite valuable. From a humanitarian perspective, I actually feel for Hayes—he's from a different place and generation, and based on the context, it really doesn't look like he had any bad intentions. But from a business perspective, there's absolutely no question that WWE did the right thing in suspending him.

In this day and age, you simply cannot be cavalier about using racist language, especially if you are a white man speaking about a minority. You can *maybe* have a loose tongue when you're talking with your friends, or when everybody knows where you're coming from. Mark Henry does not appear to have been Hayes's friend, and quite frankly, if someone I don't really know is throwing racial slurs my way, you're damn right I'm going to be pissed. Henry had every right to be angry, and, frankly, showed remarkable professionalism in going to management rather than breaking Hayes in half right then and there. In just about any other company, in any other business, Hayes would have been fired for what he said, and if this story starts getting some press coverage, there's still a real chance WWE will can him. Whatever the case, Hayes certainly did deserve to be suspended.

TG Corke : FACT. At last! A factoid. I was wondering when I was going to encounter one of those. Ok, here's the thing: I could go on for hours and hours, pages upon pages about how left-wing governments and political correctness in society has led to so much reverse discrimination and turned the majority of the world's population into hypocrites, but frankly I'd get so worked up writing it that Larry probably wouldn't print it. You'd all be bored reading it, anyway.

So I'll keep it simple. Michael Hayes allegedly called Mark Henry, who is a black gentleman, a "nigger". In 2008, and especially when working for a massive company such that the WWE is, you just can't say that and expect the employers who supervised this behavior to overlook it. Whether it would have worked the other way or not - e.g if Henry had labeled Hayes as a "honkey cracker white-bread spacker", or something similar - that's immaterial here. The fact is, Hayes was in a position of authority, he overstepped the line, and he could have deeply upset or offended his colleague.

To his great credit, Henry is said to have taken it well, making it clear that he did not take kindly to what had happened but that there weren't really any hard feelings. Considering that Henry is a big bugger and would probably have been forgiven for punching Hayes's face into the back of his skull, you have to admire his diplomacy. In fact, Henry comes out of this looking as good as Hayes does bad. But Hayes was very foolish, and while he in no way should be fired for what he has done, a suspension was the least that could have been anticipated.

And then, to top it all off, Hayes butted heads with Henry. Amazingly, given that Henry is huge and possibly could have been forgiven punching Hayes's head into the back of his skull, he remained diplomatic and just asked it never happen again. He then reported Hayes to the higher-ups which has apparently earned BOTH men heat since nobody likes a snitch. But quite frankly, Henry comes out of this looking really professional, and Hayes looks the complete opposite. While I sincerely hope nothing more than a suspension/fine results from this, a suspension was definitely the least that could have been anticipated under the circumstances of a racial slur/headbutt combination.

Score: 4 for 5


6. The World X-Cup has been pushed back once again. At this rate, if the tournament happens, you expect it to be a disappointment.

Mike Chin: FICTION. What we're seeing here is something truly revolutionary in the world of professional wrestling. It's called patience.

Sure, it's a disappointing that there's another delay, but in all honesty, if you're going to have a major gimmick competition like this, I'm all in favor of waiting until you can do it right. And, frankly, I don't think the general body of fans is amped enough about the X-Cup that they're going to be up in arms about it getting postponed, so there's really not much for TNA to lose here.

Now, will the TNA booking committee find a way to make this tournament a disappointment? That's another question altogether…

TG Corke : FICTION. But only because I honestly don't expect ANYTHING from this. While the World X Cup worked well the first couple of times around, on neither occasion did I reflect on it afterwards and think "I must see that again. Without another bite of the cherry, I shall be malnourished and want to cry petrol tears onto my clothes so I can set fire to myself". Instead, I just raised half a wry smile, appreciating what I'd seen, and put it to the back of my mind. And remember, that was back in the 'glory days' where most of the matches ended cleanly and got plenty of time, and also saw the X-division Championship was headlining events.

I'm sorry to say it, but it's simply impossible to deliver this now. The X-division title, while still important despite what some will say, is now basically a secondary championship in a singles hierarchy, rather than a primary title for non-heavyweights. Therefore, the drawing power is greatly decreased from last time. On top of that, since there now seem to be so few within the division (unless they're using those in the tag division as well, which would be fine), the tournament will basically need to be integrated with the current title situation - which contradicts the appeal of previous tournaments, that being that the teams wanted global dominance and recognition of such a vast and varied selection of wrestlers. With the champion and his direct challengers thrown in for good measure, all it does is highlight how shallow the depth truly is.

And let's not even mention the possible booking ramifications.

Regardless, I can't really say this tournament will disappoint me when I already feel so blasé about the whole prospect. Maybe that's a good thing - as Yazz and the Plastic Population once famously stated, "The only way is up." Baby.

Score: 5 for 6


These two finish 5 for 6! Come on back next week for more of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition!