Ask 411 Wrestling 05.07.08: Murdoch, Misfits, Mark Henry and More!

Posted by Steve Cook on 05.07.2008

You think you know me.



It's time to Ask 411 Wrestling! I'm Steve Cook, and I hope you had a nice start to the month of May. As for me…well, let's just say it's been interesting. I'm looking forward to the last week of the month, when I finally get a vacation from work. I'm thinking of places to go…right now the Bourbon Trail is topping the list, but I will take suggestions, especially if the suggestions come from attractive women.

What?

Make sure to look for me in Buy or Sell later this week, when I show the world why Ari Berenstein will forever be the Jimmy Jacobs to my Austin Aries. Booyakasha!

Comments, Corrections & Other "C" Words

One of the questions in ASK 411 was about EDGE not being good enough for ECW. I have a little background on that. As you mentioned, Edge spent most of his pre WWE time wrestling in Ontario (under the name Sexton Hardcastle). He and Christian had a tag team called the Suicide Blondes. I worked a few indy shows with them in Cambridge, Ontario along with the likes of Rhino (then Rhino Riggins), and Scotty D'Amour). Scotty used all of these guys in his Border City Wrestling Promotion, where he would frequently have ECW guys come in to headline. They way I heard it, Heyman thought Edge had too much of a WWE- Shawn Michaels- pretty boy look. He really didn't embody the "Hardcore" image that a rough-neck like Rhino had. It had less to do with his work ability and more to do with his look. (There's some irony for ya.) Plus, Edge lived in Toronto, and often did shows for a Toronto based promotion that had the ear of Carl Demarco (head of WWE Canada). He had a few conversations with Edge, and so I think Edge had it in his head that if he wanted to make it to the WWE- he had to avoid ECW. – Jamie

"To be honest, I have no idea what they were thinking with the whole job thing. Yay, a garbage man! Boo, a plumber! I think it was a case of throwing a bunch of garbage at the wall and seeing what sticks."

you mean like rev. d-von and deacon batista? or the mexicools? – Manu Bumb

D-Von & Batista were garbage, but I liked the Mexicools. What about it?

bobby Herman managed both haku and harley race when they met at rumble 89. He
clearly favored haku but was still harleys manager. – Guest

Oh, the comment section had some fun with that one. I had forgotten about that (which was easy because I've never seen that show and it was before I started watching), but does it really count if Heenan clearly favors one of his charges over the other? Without emotional conflict, I say no.

The posting of the blast areas might be the best thing you've done in this
column. – Goob

Thanks Goob! If I were you I would not be spending a lot of time in a West Virginia Hooters.

To answer that PPV in NYC question, I haven't looked in a few months, but I know
Armageddon was being shown at a hotel somewhere on 3rd Ave. I'm sorry, but I'm
not too sure of the name, but yeah, hope that helps. Maybe they do every PPV. – NYC Local

Not that it matters much, but I went to High School with Dustin Runnels. That's
what he was going by even then. Not sure if his name is really Virgil Riley
Runnels III but in 1986 at Lanier High School in Austin Texas, he was Dustin. – JT

So he goes by Dustin but his actual name is Virgil. Hopefully that makes enough sense for Manu to stop worrying about it.

I also feel that I should point out for the record that there is no official confirmation that Steve Austin will be wrestling at WrestleMania 25. It's just rumors and speculation at this point, and honestly I don't think he will wrestle. With wrestling retirements being what they are, I understand why everybody thinks he'll wrestle again someday, but I just don't see it happening.

Questions!

Christopher has four to start us off…

1. im starting to realize the Wrestlemania is becoming more recognizable to the world as a major event, even though its already a major thing to professional wrestling fans as it is. but clearly its gotten more important than what they would expect from the beginning. reading from Dreamer's interview earlier, was there really a police escort for the wrestlers to the arena on the day of Wrestlemania 23 and was the Highway really closed off so the superstars could get there on time? has this happened a lot more lately for the showcase of immortals, so big that the police has to make sure they get to the arena?

Sure. It happens for most big-time sporting events and other events where people have to be there on time so the show can go on. The WWE higher-ups don't want things to get in the way of their show, and with somewhere between 70 & 80,000 people trying to get in one place at the same time…you gotta take precautions.

2. since Vengeance is rumored to be now called "The Night of Champions". does this make it WWE's spin off of the Clash of Champions ppv from the old WCW days?

Clash of the Champions never had an entire card of championship matches, so I would not consider Night of Champions to be related to the Clash in anything other than the fact that their names have two similar words.

3. since WWE took out New Years Reveloution and December to Dismemember. are we gonna expect new ppv's this year, or the next few years?

The PPV schedule is set at 14 events for 2008, which is one less than they had in 2007, and two less than they had in 2006. I don't consider this a bad thing, because let's face it…the shows they've dropped were largely forgettable events that didn't mean much of anything in the long run. They can spend more time building up the shows they do have and make them special again. Unless the business hits a boom period again, I don't think they'll increase the number of PPVs.

4. will we ever see the dumpster match ever again? its just that match reaked with hardcore goodiness! it would be a nice thing to see again, better yet it wouild be nice to see it on ECW :D

Well, we need a reason for the dumpster to be used. Maybe when Duke "The Dumpster" Drose makes his big comeback in a few years, he could revive the dumpster match concept.

Kyle wants to know about Edge's music…

I've been wondering what the origin of "you think you know me" at the beginning of Edge's music is. Is it somebody that had an on-screen connection to Edge like beginning of Shawn Michaels music? Or is it just some kind of stock clip? Or a random snippet from a B-movie such as often starts Rob Zombie songs?

No, it was just part of Edge's original theme music produced by Jim Johnston and probably provided by somebody in the WWF's employ. Heck if I know who, unfortunately. There used to be other lyrics with the same voice, like "you know what I allow you to know" and "you're just a puppet" and other quality soundbites. Don't know who the voice was, but I don't think it came from anybody we would know.

Actually, speaking of Rob Zombie; his song Never Gonna Stop (The Red Red Kroovy) was Edge's theme during the Smackdown Six days. But WWE replaced the regular intro for the song with "you think you know me." Was that version ever released on CD or as an mp3?

I'm sure you could have found an mp3 of it back in the day, but I don't believe it made CD.

Jack has three questions about people winning things…

1.Do you think Black Machismo would ever win the TNA Title?

I won't rule it out. Jay Lethal is 23 years old and has already accomplished more in TNA than most people have. Management has been very high on him since he arrived, and I could see him getting to the top of the card someday. I'm not saying it's going to be this year or even next year, but if Lethal keeps working at his craft and getting better, I don't see why he can't be a World champion someday.

2.Seeing that when King Booker won King of the Ring back in 06', he won the World Title, do you see that happening with whoever wins King of the Ring 08'?

William Regal won the King of the Ring, so I'm thinking no.

3.I'm a big fan of CM Punk and I'm glad he's won Money in the Bank.My only problem is when he eventually cashes it in and usually people who cash it in win either WWE or World Title, I can't really see who he could take the belt from other than Orton(if he's still champ) or Edge(if he gains it back). So my question is if CM Punk were to win either belt who do you think he would beat for it?

I think the Punker's going to hang on to his briefcase for a good long while, and it's a good idea to do so because the current Raw champion is Triple H & the ECW champion is Kane. If he was really smart, he'd try to get himself into whatever they're going to do to determine the Smackdown champion without having to use his briefcase. To answer your question…well, if they think he deserves to be a champion, he'll go over whoever has the belt. Kane's lost matches before, as has Undertaker, and I think Triple H has even lost a match or two during his career. If they believe in Punk and really want to get him over, they'll put him over one of the sacred cows. I don't get the belief that he can't beat this guy or that guy…maybe if it were a shoot I'd buy that, but it's professional wrestling.

What the hell is going on with Trevor Murdoch? He looks like he's
wasting away. I know the first reaction would be "Wellness," but
seriously, the guy wasn't exactly an Adonis - more like Adrian Adonis.
Is he just trying to lose weight? I saw him for the first time in a
while on Raw, and I was shocked at how different he looks now. Any idea? – Matt

I can't say I've noticed that much of a difference in ol' Trevor, but maybe he's been drinking a few more Slim-Fast shakes and a few less Jack & Cokes. Which isn't a bad thing. I like me some Jack & Coke, but I love my Slim-Fast shake first thing in the morning. Mmmmmmmmm.

Any word on how Jeff Jarrett is doing? Will we see him back in TNA any time soon? – Casey

Jeff spends all of his time these days raising his three daughters and helping run TNA behind the scenes. Word has it that he won't be back in the ring anytime soon, and he's ok with that.

I just wanna ask how much those CZW workers make for them to do those crazy stuff. Don't get me wrong, I respect what those guys are doing, but it kinda annoys me whenever i hear or read fans say "That's the stuff the WWE or TNA won't do because they dont have the balls to do it" when it's pretty logical to say that they don't need to to do it and they must not do it for business and health reasons. How much are those guys making, and do you think it's really worth it? Thanks. – William from Manila

Not nearly enough. The guy who preceded me doing this column ages ago was not a huge fan of CZW and its garbage style…personally, I don't mind it but there are better ways to make money in pro wrestling. On a personal level, it wouldn't be worth it to me because I'm not a big fan of physically suffering. Some guys…I believe it is worth it to them and they wouldn't have it any other way. I couldn't find any official numbers on what the CZW death match wrestlers make, but everybody seems to agree that it's not nearly enough for what they do.

Josh has four TNA questions…

1) With all the gimmick matches going around and all the wrestlers having an alter ego or gimmick themselves, what is in TNA for Joe now that he's champ? It'll be Kurt v Joe 3 or 4 more times this year. Then maybe a match with Sting at Bound For Glory to retire Sting. Booker will probably get a shot but he has been quoted as saying he's there to help the younger guys more than anything. Steiner can only last so long. I'd love to see Robert Roode come out of this Booker feud with a top-level push. So I ask, next great feud for Joe: Booker, Roode, Styles, Tomko.

I think most of the guys you mention will get their shot at Joe, but I'm a little bit surprised you've overlooked Christian Cage. Not only is he a very good wrestler, but I've liked the matches I've seen him have with Joe. I also think you're overlooking James Storm, who does a lot more for me as a future main eventer than Robert Roode does. There are plenty of challengers for Joe out there...heck, I'll steal from your next question and say that a certain Fallen Angel may have to re-enter the picture to challenge his former rival.

2) Curry Man is great but can only last so long. I have to believe that when the video game comes out, he'll have to be back on TV as Christopher Daniels because of his involvement with the game. I propose this scenario: To further TNA's "talent exchange" with NJPW, why not have 5 wrestlers from NJPW come to TNA and have a match for an exclusive contract with TNA. Curry Man wins and removes his mask to reveal himself as Daniels who pulled one over on Jim Cornette after he fired him.

Not a bad idea. I have to say that I like the whole thing where Daniels denies he's Curry Man, though. There was an ROH show (can't remember the name, sorry) where Daniels was supposed to wrestle a Japanese guy, but the ring announcer said that Daniels was stuck in traffic, and they brought out a replacement, which happened to be Curry Man. Daniels came out later in the show and was unhappy to find out that his match had already taken place and Curry Man took his spot. It was pretty hilarious.

3) I think TNA should revive the time limit rules in wrestling. I always loved watching WWF Mania on Saturday to see what happened on Raw after it went off the air. Invariably, every match went past the TV time. But, anyway, using the time limits allows TNA to still do their famed "you didn't beat me fairly" angles they use in every match but would not need a run in on every finish. Time Limits would make for great angles as you could have someone tap out as time expired, or the ref gets to a 2 count as time expires. It's genius.

They used to have time limits during the FSN era of TNA Impact. I really liked it because they had a graphic at the top of the screen telling you who was in the match, and how much time was left in it. They didn't have the ten minute time limit expire very often, but when they did, they had a member of their championship committee determine the winner. It was a good idea but pretty much infeasible during the Russo Era, where most matches are quicker than a trip to the kitchen to get a sandwich.

4) 2 options for TNA at this point; cut your roster, or add another title. Perhaps a TV title. 500 guys wrestling for 3 titles. What about the Kaz, Roode, Abyss, and Tomko's of the world(of course I'm hoping Styles and Tomko break up.)?

I've been against TNA adding another title for eons now, but it has gotten to the point where there's a bunch of guys standing around with their members in their hands and not much else to do. Perhaps they could combine your two ideas and institute a Television Title with a fifteen minute time limit. Heck, make it a ten minute time limit if you want.

Michael has two questions…

1. What was the story surrounding the end of the Midnight Express/beginning
of the Heavenly Bodies? Did Eaton just end up in WCW without Lane? Also,
what about the switch from Lane to Jimmy Del Ray?

Jim Cornette had been getting fed up with all the B.S. surrounding WCW & Jim Herd for quite some time, and one day at a television taping somebody told him that if he didn't like something, he could just leave. So he decided to just leave. Stan Lane asked where he was going, and when he found out, he decided to go with Cornette. Eaton wanted to go as well, but they told him to stay because he had a family to support and the WCW higher-ups actually liked him and would probably use him. Cornette decided to do something he had always wanted to do, and with help from Rick Ruben formed Smoky Mountain Wrestling. The Heavenly Bodies of Stan Lane & Tom Pritchard became the top heel tag team in the promotion until Lane decided to retire from active competition and join the WWF as an announcer. Jimmy Del Ray joined the team afterwards due to the recommendation of Kevin Sullivan, and the Bodies picked up right where they left off…despite some personal differences behind the scenes Pritchard & Del Ray worked very well together in the ring.

2. What was the storyline reason for Hulk Hogan not being involved in the
Bash at the Beach when the nWo was formed? It seems like people should have
been suspicious from the beginning that he wasn't even on the card, not to
mention not being on the WCW team to go up against Hall and Nash.

Hulk Hogan had not appeared on a WCW PPV since March's Uncensored show. After that, he took a few months off to shoot a movie, which is where people assumed he would be during Bash at the Beach. So Hogan even showing up was a surprise to most people, and obviously him turning heel was an even bigger surprise.

Conor O'Boyle has two questions…

1.Did Andre The Giant and Ric Flair ever wrestled one on one?Thats quite a dream match there.If they wrestle serveral times, what was there matches like?

I have never seen Andre vs. Flair, and I couldn't find a written or video account of the match, but apparently it took place and it finished in third place in Pro Wrestling Illustrated's Match of the Year voting in 1977. So obviously it happened, but unfortunately for us it's been lost to the ages. We can only hope that WWE somehow acquired footage of the match and places it in a future Flair or Andre DVD package…otherwise, we'll just have to imagine how it went. I can't imagine Flair locking Andre in the figure-four.

(In a completely unrelated note, I was looking at PWI's award history and noticed that Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon at WrestleMania XXII won their Match of the Year in 2006. WTF? That's almost enough for me to discredit their entire history right there. Or at least discredit their readers because they're the ones that voted for it. God Almighty.)

2. After watching the Flair retirement show on Raw aster Wrestlemania,i thought about the one they did for him in Greenville in 03.My question is that in the Greenville tribute,not everyone was out.I know it was in the days when the brand thing was in full effect so no Smackdown wrestlers were there.But i remember people like Goldberg,Scott Stenier and Kevin Nash being in Raw but not there.Test is another one.Do you know why?(Stenier one maybe easy to guess)
Also no divas like Trish were there.Do have nay reason as to why this was and did they get heat for it.

I don't think anybody got any heat for not coming out at the end of the show to pay homage to the Nature Boy. Honestly, the people involved probably didn't even notice who came out and who didn't. Nash I wouldn't blame because they were building up to him and Triple H at the next PPV and he already had come out to help Flair, so if he had any love for the guy he probably showed it at that point. Maybe the Divas were afraid to come out because Flair would have taken it as a reason for them to all ride Space Mountain. I can't say I blame them. Anybody else…well, they're probably douchebags anyway, so who cares?

I was wondering if 411 ever had or ever thought about having a E-wrestling fed. if you don't know what it is, it is a fantasy wrestling league with original characters. These characters compete with one another with ropeplays (i.e Character interviews, promos, backstage segments) that they write and submit. Match winners are based on these roleplays, storylines and strategies judged by a writing staff. the writing staff creates a card and produces a show. it would be presented much like the Raw, smackdown and TNA reports on this site.

The last time I was a part of one was from 1998 to 2001. I did everything from world champ to match writer. I can't find one that runs today. I think one on this site would catch on like wildfire, there are fueds going on in the comment section of every column this site has. If people could translate that to a character, i think it would be a lot of fun. I'd love to take on Darth Mortis!

if you don't know of any, maybe you could ask your readers if there is a good one out there, or even if people are interested in having one here. – Tony

"Tell your readers to click on the forum tab sometime" – Penguin

My feathered friend was somewhat offended when I asked him to answer this question because he is one of the forces behind the FWRFed, which has operated at the 411 Fan Forum for quite some time. When I was an e-fedding kind of guy, I used to feud at a fed called ECF, which eventually became TCW, which is hosted over at Twisted Experience. I would definitely recommend both of those feds for your feuding pleasure.

Tarek has two questions…

1. Was Chavo getting buried at Mainia this year some sort of punishment and if so why???

There were rumors that Chavo had attended the TNA Impact taping at Universal Studios during WM weekend, but those rumors were denied by TNA wrestlers and anybody else who was asked. I don't think it was a punishment, it was just a matter of doing something for the sake of surprise. And time constraints.

2. I was watching Wrestling With Shadows the documentary and the whole Montreal srewjob thing is claimed by both Vince and Bret to have not been a work in any shape or form. Now the problem I have with this after watching the documentary was that the filming for this documentary seem pretty well timed and convenient. I mean what are the chances of having a crew filming you 1 year before the build of one of the most famous endings to a match/angle in the industry?

Also if it was a work why did Bret no sue Vince after??? He had the video/ audio evidence that Bret did not have to job, surely this is breach of contract and also damaging to the Hitman character?

And lastly if they have an agreement that Vince can have final say of anything hence legally Hitman had no claim despite being lied to, why didnt Vince say to Bret ok schmoze finish and then give me the title to hold onto and that following monday rematch with Shawn where you drop the title clean? This way you wouldnt have had any risk of the title being on WCW TV.

I read that the whole thing was a work to help beat WCW and Bret was sent as a WWF spy in a way to ruin it for Turner. Hence the non-suing, the huge screwjob angle that got people talking, Bret being very ineffective in WCW (booking or not). Bret got a nice payoff and held his bitterness and now finally is starting to forgive the WWE - Hall of Fame and DVD etc.... - Any truth to this??? – Tarek

Sometimes a question can be best answered with one word…

No.

Patrick has three questions…

1. Why doesn't WWE do anything with Mark Henry? I know you're not a fan, but I am. He's been with the company for 10 yrs plus, and has struggled thru a few personas, and finally found one that gets him over, with a sick theme music as well. And on top of that, hes pretty good on the mic. Is there a reason they just do nothing with him? I'm not talking world title material (although last year he could've been a better temp champion than Khali). Is there a reason WWE doesn't use him better?

I think Henry's perfect in the role they've used him in during the last couple of years, and can't imagine what else you'd want to do with him. I guess you could have him kill even more job guys or something, but what's the point? Maybe you could move him over to Raw, which makes sense now that the Michael Hayes controversy is semi-public and something tells me that Hayes isn't going to be interested in pushing Henry when he comes back. Henry seems like a guy who doesn't take a lot of B.S., and that may hurt him in the eyes of some backstage.

2. What's with Cena's complexion? Almost all wrestlers tan to make themselves look better, but Cena is always pale in comparison to the others. Are they afraid he would look too muscular? He would look no bigger than someone like Batista.

I don't think there's a lot of time in Cena's busy schedule to spend in a tanning bed. Frankly, I don't think tanning is quite as important as some people think it is. Sure, you don't want to come out looking ghost pale like Bryan Danielson, but I've never looked at Cena and thought "Damn, dude looks like he hasn't been outside in weeks". It doesn't seem to hurt him in the eyes of the ladies either, so it's all good.

3. When Orton does his 'stomp around his opponent' why don't they ever mention Rugged Ronnie Garvin? If I recall correctly, he was the only wrestler to use that on a regular basis. They always mention older wrestlers if someone does a signature move of theirs. "Shades of the great...."

Early on JR made a point of saying that the move was originally called the Garvin Stomp, but Randy Orton was re-naming it the Orton Stomp. As the Legend Killer, Randy shouldn't want people thinking of old-time wrestlers during his matches.

Neuce has three questions…

1. Regarding the recent return of Warrior in Spain, and the promotion referring to him as "The Ultimate Warrior", I was under the impression that WWE owned the name, and that led to him legally change his name to Warrior Warrior or something to that effect. Is this a slip-up? Was there a settlement I am unaware of between Hellwig and WWE? Not really important, just curious.

Copyright laws are less stringent in countries other than the United States. WWE could try to sue the company that Warrior's working for, but the judge would probably laugh them out of court. The same thing happens in Mexico, where Sean Waltman wrestles as X-Pac and uses the DX music and nobody thinks anything of it.

2. What is the current status of Raven in wrestling? I know he was let go by TNA after the Serotonin angle didn't get over, but he always seemed like a very good mind in wrestling, and I'd be interested to see him return, even in a commentator role he's repeatedly rejected in the past. (I'm a huge Raven mark, so sue me).

Hey, I like the guy too so I'm not gonna sue you. Raven started a wrestling academy in conjunction with an independent wrestling promotion in Georgia just yesterday. He's been working the indie scene mostly in the Southeast since leaving TNA, and writes a column for another wrestling website. Check out his website right here for further details.

3. Finally, the night Shane Douglas threw down the NWA World Heavyweight Championship, and declared himself ECW World Champ, what kind of legal ramifications could there have been? I know Paul Heyman and Tod Gordon admit to pulling the strings on that, as ECW was still a member of the NWA at the time, and wanted to break away. It just seems that there would have to be contract issues (either between NWA and Douglas, or NWA and ECW) that could have been pursued. The NWA was established in the 40's, and almost 50 years later, they wouldn't have had some tools in place to keep someone from pulling a stunt like this? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Any judge worth his salt would have laughed the NWA promoters right out of court. They didn't have Shane Douglas under contract, Tod Gordon & Paul E. could have claimed ignorance and Shane probably would have covered for them, ECW was paying for the right to be an NWA member, the NWA wasn't paying ECW to be in their group…and so on. The reason they didn't have tools in place to keep it from happening was because they were ignorant.

The bottom line is that wrestling lawsuits tend to not get very far in the system because nobody takes them seriously. I don't think a judge would have been too concerned about Shane Douglas throwing a belt down on the ground. Heck, if Bret Hart had tried to sue the WWF over the screwjob, I doubt he would have found a judge to take that seriously. Well, maybe one in Canada would have.

DarknightWolf101 has two HOF related questions…

1. With Wrestlemania 25 being in Texas, there are rumors about Steve Austin, The Fabulous Freebirds, The Von Erich Family, The Funks, the late, Houston Promoter Paul Boesch, The Million Dollar Man and Ricky Steamboat being the HOF class of 2009. My Question is: Are they going to induct HBK as well?

I don't think Shawn Michaels will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame until he's ready to retire. I don't think he'll be retiring at WrestleMania 25 because there's still some gas left in the tank.

2. Would Undertaker be inducted as well, because he is originally from Texas ,or do you think that the WWE will wait and induct HBK, Undertaker, Mick Foley The Rock, SCSA, and Triple H together?

Undertaker…maybe. I don't see them inducting all of the people you list at the same time because the egos involved would dictate that somebody would get pissed off over not being the "star" of the event.

I'm a huge Misfits fan, but I didnt watch wrestling back when they were involved with WCW. Can you give an in depth description of their wrestling tenure?

i.e. What angles were they involved in? Were they over? How did the crowd feel about them? Were all the members involved or just Jerry Only? Were any of them even any good in the ring? Did they cut any good promos? What were their finishers or signature moves? Stuff like that.... – Jaime

The Misfits spent their time in WCW in the corner of Vampiro, who they said was going to be part of their band. I don't think that lasted very long (if at all), but they did hang around WCW for a couple of months in late 1999. Only was the only member to wrestle, and I don't think he had a finisher or a signature move because Vampiro did most of the wrestling when Only wasn't getting beat up. And I think Vampiro did most of the talking too, so they just didn't get to do a whole lot of fun stuff. But hey, at least they were there, right? The crowd didn't seem to mind them too much, and people backstage loved them because they got free Misfits shirts and the guys acted respectful and didn't piss people off like the Insane Clown Posse did, who were previously in Vampiro's corner and rubbed some people the wrong way.

Well, that's all we have time for this week. Send any questions, thoughts, concerns or porn to [e-mail]. You may also comment in the comment section if you wish. Until next time, booooooooooohica!