Shining a Spotlight 5.15.08: The Overrated
Posted by Michael Weyer on 05.15.2008
In a sure to be debated list, I give my picks for past and present workers I feel don't warrent the mass acclaim they receive from so many.
Well, Sacrifice wasn't quite the train wreck I expected but still could have used help. Putting Kaz in the title match was a nice shakeup as it's about time we got fresher faces in the main event scene. Still ticked that Roxxi got shaved but hopefully she'll get a good push out it as she's improved nicely. As for the tournament, way overdone with the mixed teams but thankfully they gave it to LAX, which is long overdue.
"Overrated."
It's one of those terms that gets thrown about quite a lot on the IWC in regards to various performers. People who think certain guys don't deserve spots, guys who get by with much larger reps than they deserve and just aren't as hot as so many think they are. I've been asked before who I think is overrated and have sometimes mentioned those picks at times but thought I'd give a list of who I think fits into that.
Now, I recognize the fact that this is in no ways a definitive list of overrated performers. The thing is, everyone has their own "rating system" as it were so no two lists like this can be alike. Guys will talk about Flair, Rock and others as incredibly overrated while pushing a mid-card guy no one else likes. For example, RD Reynolds, the man behind Wrestlecrap will regularly put down HHH but then talk about someone like Zach Gowan being a "can't miss prospect" which is something I've never really heard anyone else say. So I'm fully aware a lot of my picks are going to get some debate but it's how I feel.
Now my criteria for overrated is a mix of both in-ring performance and persona as I'll explain each time. I'm sure some are going to be surprised at some I leave off. Hogan, for example, has long been called overrated but the fact is, he was never that high really in the minds of hardcore fans. But Hogan, like Flair, just exists on a different level than most other performers as he could come out tomorrow to a monster pop and a big-time matchup. I long felt Benoit was a bit overrated by many, a fine technician but never quite the guy to really depend on to carry a company. However, I'm leaving him off as too much of my judgment of him as a performer is affected by what happened at the end. Also, there are some guys I acknowledge as excellent, just not in the same extreme as so many take it (Bret Hart for example). But I was concentrating on the ones I really feel just didn't deserve the massive acclaim given to them.
So with that in mind, let's get to my list:
Rob Van Dam: Ah, RVD. A man who has been hailed as the biggest waste of a superstar WWE has ever had, a guy with a massive fanbase in the IWC, the one everyone thought should have been carrying the company in 2002-03. To which I ask, are you as high as he often is? Yeah, he was good when he started out in ECW with the high flying and all that. But watch his stuff and you can see that often it's just the high flying, not too much else to his offense. Plus, the guy has to rank as one of the worst sellers I've seen, taking a major hit but then bouncing right back up as if it was nothing. What really gets me is that in about 2002 or so, RVD seemed to believe his own hype, that he was the next champ for sure and his workrate got even worse. I found it so hypocritical that at "One Night Stand" 2006, the fans kept yelling "Same old shit" at Cena when RVD's repertoire hasn't changed in years. The fact he blew his giant push in '06 in only a month shows how he wasn't the guy you'd depend on to carry things. Fact is, RVD stands as a great example of Paul Heyman's philosophy in ECW of "accentuate the positives, hide the negatives." Without that in place, RVD just never came up to expectations yet still gets held in esteem as a guy who should have gotten a push he never truly deserved.
Bruiser Brody: I've never gotten the appeal of Brody to so many. I've seen workrate freaks down on anything not technical fall over themselves talking about what a great worker Brody was. Thing is, I just don't see it. Yeah, he was arguably the best brawler the business has ever seen but that's all he was, a brawler who would no-sell anything thrown at him and just did wild battles with other guys like him such as Abdullah the Butcher. They talk about how great he was drawing money in the days where guys would go from territory to territory but overlook the fact he would bury so much of the local talent, making them look weak so when he left in only a few weeks, the promotion would be poorer off. That led to him being blackballed from a lot of places which was why he was in Puerto Rico when he was stabbed to death in the locker room. I think that horrible fate has led to him being held in higher regard than he truly deserved. A great brawler, yes, but not exactly one of the biggest stars around or all around great fighter.
Shane Douglas: I think I may get some agreement on this one. You look at the early part of Douglas' career and he just didn't seem to have superstar quality within him. He had an okay run with the UWF and then WCW, highlighted by teaming with Ricky Steamboat but let's face it, anyone could team with Steamboat and look like a million bucks. So he was in the right place at the right time with ECW as they needed a cocky heel champ and he fit the bill then. But you actually watch his stuff and even in his ECW prime, he never seemed to have that superstar quality. He had good persona but just didn't take it to the next level in the ring like he should have, his "I'm better than you" attitude working against him actually as no, he didn't seem better than a lot of his opponents. His short time as "Dean Douglas" in WWF showed his shortcomings to a grand audience as did his later stint in WCW. Yet the guy still complains about all the people who held him back from his true potential, ignoring how he did reach it in 1995 and it wasn't as good as he thought. Like RVD, he's a good example of someone who did make it as a star but then just sat back and coasted on it for years to come rather than really try to reach further.
The Rock N Roll Express: I know some may be bugged by this but I'm holding to it. The Midnight Express was always a great team, either combination and the RnR were fair too. However, look at their battles today and you can tell the Midnights really carried it off better as the RnR never seemed as daring or amazing as so many claim. Hell, the Rockers were actually much better with their double-team moves and ariel abilities. Robert Gibson was clearly the weaker part of it while Ricky Morton went way too much for the whole "face in peril" stuff to make their matches seem a real team effort. Sure, they were hot with fans then but so was Dusty Rhodes and like Dusty, the RNR just don't hold up well when you look at them today.
David Von Erich: Watching both the recent DVD releases on World Class highlights that David was the most talented and charismatic of the Von Erich brothers, the one everyone thought would go the farthest. Even the NWA board seemed ready to give him the title and people say that if he had, WCCW would have gone to WWE equal heights. I admit, David was good in the ring and a better presence on the mic but I never quite bought him as the guy you'd give the biggest belt in the world at the time to. By no means was his success due to Fritz owning the promotion but it did seem the big fish in a small pond and I suspect that he had lived to get the big belt and toured, it might have exposed his shortcomings. Like Brody, his early death seems to have enhanced his reputation, while Kerry (who I actually considered the better athlete and personality) has been turned on. He was a tragic loss to the industry but saying the wrestling world would be massively different had he lived seems a bit much.
Batista: I've written before that I've never understood the rush of love toward Batista in 2005 when he got his big push as champion. Yes, he's a good "big guy" fighter in the ring with better stamina than most and when put with the right opponent (Undertaker a great example), he's capable of some great matches. But the guy just doesn't seem to be deserving of all the praise he gets. Really, what's the big difference between him and Goldberg? He has a basic power attack, lots of posing and yelling for the crowd but isn't that skilled inside technically. True, WWE really doesn't lean on that too much but the guy just doesn't click for me as a main event player. He was fine on the rise as the monster but something seemed lost when he reached the big stage, making his whole persona seem lacking.
Michael Hayes: Don't get me wrong, Hayes is one of the best personalities the business has ever known. He's an amazing talker, has great presence even at his age, is quite intelligent and in his Freebirds heyday, could work a crowd like few others. But when you talk actual match work…Well, that's another story. Terry Gordy was a great wrestler, Buddy Roberts took a lot of shots but Hayes just seemed to go around with some brawling, not any real ring finesse, more interested in posing and working the crowd than a match. That did help with the Freebirds' rise in WCCW and their heat but the fact is, the guy just wasn't that great a worker. So he deserves attention for the sizzle but failed to bring the steak.
Andre the Giant: I'm not talking about the latter years of his life when Andre was in constant pain and barely able to move. I mean even back in the 1970's, when he was much more trim and mobile, Andre just didn't seem deserving of all his praise. People talk of how bad his ring skills had deteriorated by the 1980's but watch old stuff and they don't seem that big to begin with, just basic blows and chops with his massive size. He was able to work his size well but it was the basic act of so many giants before and since, including Great Khali. He was a huge draw but promoters knew it was for the novelty of seeing someone so huge with smaller athletes and that he wasn't a guy to be given a big belt or anything. Not only that but except for rare occasions (his 1980 match with Killer Khan), he often seemed unmotivated and just going through the motions for so many guys. It is sad that he had to fall so hard at the end but his prime really wasn't as great as so many will claim.
Ken Kennedy: He has ring skill and great on the mic but Kennedy simply hits me as massively overrated. People talk about how he's a future main eventer in the making but he just doesn't rub me that way. He's good but not quite that good and while his injuries have marred some of his push, he also doesn't seem to really be able to carry a match against a weaker opponent. Really, name one really great epic match (besides MITB) he's been in where he came off like a million bucks. He may be able to grow into that in time but at the moment, he doesn't quite have the skill to back up that big mouth and it might be best to wait on a serious title run until that happens else you expose his weaknesses too soon.
Scott Steiner: In 1990, Steiner was an amazing athlete, puling out moves almost no one had seen on a US stage before. He and brother Rick were one of the best tag teams of the 1990's and a singles run was planned before his first serious arm injury. Thing was, at the time, Scott was just too soft-spoken to really carry as a singles guy and not quite as mega-hot with the crowd in that role either. He did have some runs with smaller belt like the TV title but didn't seem to click as a singles star. He did when he remade himself as "Big Poppa Pump" but in doing so, roided himself up to about half his mobility, cutting down on his ring skills. He has shown better improvement in TNA, remarkable after his injury, but while his mouth and personality may earn him a main event run, his actual ring skills are a shadow of their former self. So this one is really overrated more to timing than other factors but timing is often everything in this business.
Rhino: Three years later and it still amazes me that Rhino had a run with the NWA world title, even if it was only a couple of days. Rhino was really just your basic brawler in ECW, albeit with some good conditioning and occasional ring skills but still a guy prone to running over people and did the same in WWE. Having him as a main eventer and even champion in TNA just never seemed right to me and his fast fall from that seems to prove my assertion right. Yet, people still talk about him being a great worker and a better "big man" than most when he isn't really that big. Like many other ECW guys, Rhino's weakeness were revealed once the company went under yet so many ignore that.
Larry Zybsko: When you talk about a guy coasting on one success, Zybsko spent years taking that one great early program with Bruno Sammartino and making a career out of it. His run in the AWA showcased that the guy was a great talker but a poor worker, tons of stalling in his matches and not much else before he'd cheat his way to victory. The only reason he was AWA champion was because he was Verne Gagne's son in law and thus wouldn't jump ship (although he did just before the company went under). He kept that up in WCW, managing a run with Arn Anderson as tag champs where AA clearly carried the ship and even a brief run as TV champion before becoming the sardonic commentator. His stuff in TNA as a management guy kept up the cocky heel but seeming more a smarmy jerk than a supposed intelligent ring veteran.
Stan Hansen: Another guy acclaimed as a terrific brawler but you really sit down and watch a "classic" Hansen match and you're left with a feeling of "that's it?" The guy did have great presence but came off way too stiff in the ring. Before you say "oh, he's just working it well," it's actually because he was blind as a bat without glasses and so really didn't know how hard he was hitting guys. It still amazes me the Japanese fans ate that up for so many years as the guy just comes off lumbering and uncoordinated compared to so many lighter fighters. His attitude hardly helps as he can seem as crazy as he acts in the ring as the AWA learned when they tried to make him their champ. Still in work, stiffer in attitude, the guy just doesn't win you over as much as his legend would have you think.
So those are my big picks for overrated guys, a selection I'm sure will be ranked on by readers but I expect that. Again, just my own personal opinions but you never know, maybe some agree with me on a few of these.
Next week I flip it over to my picks for underrated workers. For now, the spotlight is off.
Posted By: Rasslin Analytical (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:18 PM
"Really, what's the big difference between him and Goldberg?"
Goldberg's moves had snap and were explosive, whereas Batista's power moves usually look slow and lumbering.
Posted By: Matt H (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:22 PM
The only one you got right on this list is Ken Kennedy. You just wanted to get a lot of comments in the comment section by listing some of the best ever. Give me a break you mark.
p.s. - where's John Cena?
Posted By: No buys. (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:22 PM
You are right on the spot when it comes to some of the names on he list, especially the Rock and Roll Express, and yes the Midnight Express and Rockers were much better.
Your analysis of RVD is also right on the money and just goes to show how hypocritical the IWC fanboys can be.
No argument with either Shane Douglas or "Mr. Stall" Larry Zybsko, I always felt they were both boring!
Posted By: Reid (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:24 PM
You are right on the spot when it comes to some of the names on he list, especially the Rock and Roll Express, and yes the Midnight Express and Rockers were much better.
Your analysis of RVD is also right on the money and just goes to show how hypocritical the IWC fanboys can be.
No argument with either Shane Douglas or "Mr. Stall" Larry Zybsko, I always felt they were both boring!
Posted By: Reid (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:24 PM
You are right on the spot when it comes to some of the names on he list, especially the Rock and Roll Express, and yes the Midnight Express and Rockers were much better.
Your analysis of RVD is also right on the money and just goes to show how hypocritical the IWC fanboys can be.
No argument with either Shane Douglas or "Mr. Stall" Larry Zybsko, I always felt they were both boring!
Posted By: Reid (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Hogan is and forever will be the most overratted wrestler of all time. I understand why he was not included but if the word overrated is used in wrestling, I will forever think of him.
Posted By: Jose (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:25 PM
I agree with you on Batista. I don't know why the IWC fell in love with DAVE, he hasn't shown me anything special. Kennedy had some interesting matches when he was on SD!, but he's been run of the mill ever since he came to Raw.
Posted By: Guest#3003 (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:31 PM
How about...Billy Gunn? He was overrated by the WWF, I can still remember Jim Ross use the "greatest athlete" tag on Billy Gunn once HBK was retired (he was the one who got that "title" before Jim ross gave it to billy gunn...difference is , HBK really was the greatest athlete...until now)
Anyway, Billy Gunn was EXTREMELY OVERRATED during his WWF run
Posted By: deeno (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:34 PM
You forgot Cena.
Posted By: El_Tigre (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:34 PM
I agree with every body outside of Kennedy. I totaly agree with Shane Douglas the guy only got over by bashing ric flair and cussing sure HHH stole his gimick as The Game but hell HHH in his prime was better at it then Shane
Posted By: PunkMark (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:48 PM
you lost me from the very beginning. RVD? How can he be overrated? People because he does cool moves. Thats his whole appeal. So are you saying he doesn't do cool moves? Because he does. No one thinks he's some phenomenal worker, merely a spot monkey. He may be in fact the most accurately rated wrestler ever, everyone knows what he is, and what he isn't
Perhaps you just don't like RVD, and thats fine, but that does not make him overrated.
Posted By: Guest#0042 (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:53 PM
I agree with everyone on the list except for Kennedy
Posted By: natedoggcata (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Comparing RVD's moveset to Cena's is a little over the top at least RVD has some impressive moves. Cena couldn't even pull off half of what he has. RVD has had the same moveset thats because RVD has had impressive moves in his set while really cena has had none.
I agree about Batista I think he got over with his power moves and being carried by other guys that made him look good.
Rock and Roll Express I have to disagree with they weren't just great with the Midnight Express they carried other half talented teams to great matches. The Midnights may have been their biggest feud but they had other great matches as well.
Posted By: I think (Guest) on May 14, 2008 at 11:56 PM
RVD ....not over-rated....he worked his ass off for years before he got his uber-push...albeit he ruined it ...but most definitely not over rated. AND DID YOU SAY HE CAN'T SELL. He made alot of boring moves look hot ...RKO anybody!!!!
Posted By: Diablopepe (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:00 AM
hmmmm ... RVD... monkey flip, rolling thunder, vandanminator, frog splash... 4 moves of doom? hehehehe
but i admire that guy for his charisma and connection to fans yet he does need to expand his move set if he ever comes back. scott steiner your dead on your observation...
Posted By: miloytheman (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:01 AM
I agree with most of this, good job. Especially about Kennedy and Batista. If Kennedy wanted to be an announcer, perfect. He's just not a very good wrestler. His matches aren't anything to crow about. Even working with Michaels did nothing for him and if you can't get a good match with Michaels, then there's something wrong with you. I agree with RVD blowing his spot when he got the title, but I don't think RVD is overrated. Sure, his arsenal became predictable in WWE but probably because that's what WWE told him to do. Teddy Hart couldn't flip around in WWE, they told him not to. Although I hate him anyway lol. But RVD in ECW was his glory days. I hate Jerry Lynn too but the RVD / Lynn matches were really good.
Posted By: Bernie Lomax (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:10 AM
RVD is one of the most gifted, exciting and greatest performers EVER
Your so called hate for him is pathetic and screams "blinded anti RVD smark" as well .
The guy is OVER for a reason and a good one :
He is one of a kind for REAL and Bring something fresh and unique to the table .
Rob Van Dam = one of the most over perfomers ever
RVD >>>>> Michael Weyer
Oh it's REAL It's DAMN REAL !!!!!
Posted By: Monster Max (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:17 AM
Oh and like stated above, Rob Van Dam is one of the greatest SELLERS EVER
He sure can sell but you for sure can't write michael weyer !
BTW Where's CM Sucks on your list ?
The straight ass to boredom is definitively the biggest IWC overrated guy EVER
Posted By: Monster Max (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Completely agree on Rhino. I'm not a fan of his work.
I don't think people overrate Tista. If you look around the IWC and see what people say about him, a lot of people can't stand him. I was into him at the beginning of 05, not because of his in-ring work, but because HHH was becoming ridiculously tiresome and the story behind their first match was really good IMO. After that he got annoying, especially last year after Taker got hurt when he was in EVERY SD PPV World Title match.
Partially agree on Van Dam. "The Franchise" is a bit of a joke to me how he compares himself to Flair, although I think his character was a pretty good one, thanks to how Douglas played it.
When Kennedy first got on SD, he was showing great charisma, had the "distinction" of beating 7 former champs, and had some pretty good matches with Taker. Then the injuries, his being drafted to RAW (which was turning out to be a HORRIBLE move up until around 5 or 6 months ago), and him making an ass out of himself with the steroid situation, his matches became pretty boring, as were his promos. However, I think he's really picked up some steam starting w/ his fued with HBK and now what looks like a face turn. I think he'll be a big player on RAW by September or October. Definately by the end of the year, barring any stupid interview answers or injuries.
Posted By: Bobby (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:26 AM
totally agree on brody. there is a difference between not selling properly and just not selling. cena and rvd never sold very well. while brody just did not aell at all.
Posted By: reh629 (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 12:29 AM
"I found it so hypocritical that at "One Night Stand" 2006, the fans kept yelling "Same old shit" at Cena when RVD's repertoire hasn't changed in years."
Yeah but RVD's moves are actually ENTERTAINING and he has more of them.
Plus, he didn't have the whole "5 moves of doom" thing Cena does. Clothesline, Clothesline, Shoulder Tackle, Protobomb, Five Knuckle Shuffle, F-U/STF-U.
I'm not trying to start a Cena debate, there are enough of those shitfests on the site already, but RVD's moves, while unchanged over the years, were exciting and varied enough to begin with that both the casual fan and the Internet smark fan don't really desire a change.
Sure, if he came back to RAW and busted out a Cattle Mutilation or a Rings of Saturn or something like that, I doubt the fans would complain, but the fact is people complain about guys like Cena having stale movesets because he always does them in the same order and rarely deviates from his rather short movelist.
I was about to click "submit" when I checked wikipedia... it lists RVD as having 30 moves. Cena has 11. Seriously.
AGAIN, I don't want to start a "Cena sux" "No you suck Cena rulz" war so keep in mind I'm just talking about Cena because of the hypocrisy claim. I'm defending RVD more than I'm attacking Cena.
Posted By: m8 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:30 AM
"Really, name one really great epic match (besides MITB) he's been in where he came off like a million bucks. " --
I can think of one off the top of my head. When he faced Edge for the MITB briefcase (When he was injured). Kennedy wanted to keep on the match - despite being attacked. Made him look like a STAR.
Posted By: Yoni (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:31 AM
"He made alot of boring moves look hot ...RKO anybody!!!!"
Also, fuck you, the RKO is fucking awesome as is KING RANDY.
Posted By: m8 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:34 AM
I'm sorry, but RVD doesn't belong on the list at all. You claim he doesn't sell moves properly? Dude sells moves like he's been shot, or worse. You may be watching the abridge highlights version of his ECW matches. To say he was nothing but high flying offense is totally off base. When put into the ring with guys like Taz, and Shane Douglas, RVD proved he has a solid ground game aswell.
While I do agree to agree with you on that he dropped the ball a month into his title reign due to the weed, Vince and co. knew exactly who they were putting the belt on. RVD has made it no big secret that he smokes weed, endorses weed, and doesn't care what anyone thinks about it. The only reason why they stripped him of the title, is cause he got busted with Sabu, cause Sabu had a whole damn medicine cab in his bag. And to say RVD coasted is totally wrong. When one of your not a product of Vince of Stephanie McMahon, it takes a very very long time for them to warm up to you. RVD's cards were even further stacked against him because he was once aligned with Paul Heyman, who is hated and loathed by Stephanie McMahon. So anyone who even associated themselves with Heyman at one point is automatically dead to her, and she did everything in her power to hold RVD down when he was on SD!, and once he got to Raw, mr. glass ceiling himself HHH held down RVD more. Added to the fact that RVD injured HHH in a hell in the cell? May as well just buried him right there in that ring.
Posted By: David (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Here are some more:
Booker T: Sure his best of 7 with Benoit was good but who could not have a good match with Benoit. Apart from that his matches never seem to go above the ** mark. Yes he is a good talker but I find his matches boring as hell.
Jeff Hardy: Like RVD his drug problems have screwed his career up. He is a better seller then RVD but without the right opponent Jeff is just average. Thats why he came back to the WWE cos he saw in TNA that half the roster were better workers then he is.
Also I knew that people were gonna come on here and bitch about Cena but the whole point of this is that these are wrestlers that everyone overrates I and not everyone loves Cena. People who hate him just don't understand the art that is sports entertainment.
Posted By: Tony Dorian (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:43 AM
just a nit pick it RVD hurt HHH it was the EC
Posted By: Guest#7364 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Since I'm bored I'll respond to everyone you mentioned.
Bruiser Brody- Agreed. Just a no selling, no jobbing egomaniac who was impossible to work with. Plus I find his "badass" schtick incredibly lame. What is he some kind of retarded viking? Blame the Berzerker and Jacobs I guess.
RVD- God no. He was one of the most exciting wrestlers ever IMO. He also had the "it" factor that 99% of wrestlers could only dream of.
Shane Douglas- Agreed. Nothing but a shitty 3rd rate Flair rip off who liked to curse. IMO one of the top 5 most overrated wrestlers ever.
Rock n Roll Express- I used to think so but I've come to appreciated them a lot in the past few years. Yeah the MX were infinitely cooler but without the stuff these guys brought to the table (selling, emotion, punches, likeability, and generally being great faces)those matches wouldn't be nearly as memorable.
David Von Erich- N/A haven't seen enough
Batista- I think he's alright. Not great, but not terrible either.
Michael Hayes- No f'n way. One of my favorite wrestlers of the 80s. I seriously think he could have been a world champion. I love me some Hayes.
Andre the Giant- Yeah I can see this. He worked as an attraction but transport him to today and you've got another Great Khali.
Ken Kennedy- Depends. I think he's alright but there are people that severely overrated him (he's the future of WWE!) and people who severely underrate him (he's one of the worst wrestlers in WWE!)
Scott Steiner- Hell yes in the past 12 years. IMO he pretty much sucks and has for a long time.
Rhino- Eh he's alright. I still think his best stuff was in 2001 WWE.
Larry Zbyszko- No. He was almost as awesome as Hayes and RVD. One of the best talkers and heels ever IMO.
Stan Hansen- Agreed. He's alright but nowhere near "OMG one of the best wrestlers ever!"
Posted By: Guest#7953 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:53 AM
I actually agree with a lot of these. I hate Larry Zybysko. He sucked at everything. I'm not even sure why he was a wrestler. The STALLING, OH MY GOD, THE STALLING. It made me want to watch a Shane Douglas match. Remember when they used to chant "Larry" on Nitro. That was so f'n Gay.
RVD always had the same damn match. If you ever make a list of most over rated matches make sure to include Lynn vs. RVD. Any one of them. They suck. Jerry Lynn should be on this list too, btw.
Shane Douglas sucked too. I hated his matches. Somebody would be getting beat to death with all sorts of weapons and what not, but would always kick out of everything... except the dreaded belly to belly suplex.(see Barely Legal)
OH MY GOD! Come to think of it without Raven vs. Dreamer and Taz, ECW is over rated.
Posted By: Raiderhorde (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 12:54 AM
RVD a bad seller!?....all i say to that is have you seen his sell of Tommy Dreamer's Piledriver back in the ECW days?!
Posted By: BP (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 01:09 AM
Hansen & Brody overrated?? u must be fucking high son.
Wheres Cena on this list? He's no where as good as Kennedy.
Rhyno was never the same after the neck injury but he's still a good guy to have around.
I agree about Batista, the guys been carried through 2 decent feuds (Taker & HHH) but other than that he aint done shit.
Posted By: Guest#8782 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 01:34 AM
Selling doesn't just entail *taking* the move, feeb; it's about making it seem like it had an actual effect on your wellbeing. You can bounce three feet in the air from a piledriver, but if you're up again performing planchas and quebradas within twenty-five seconds, people aren't going to think that piledriver did a goddamn thing.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 01:35 AM
Good list and I agree with a bunch of these names. One name I would add to your list is Jeff Jarrett. I always thought he was a mid-card guy at best but never capable of carrying a company.
Posted By: Cory (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 01:41 AM
He's RVD v2.0 excpet with LESS wrestling ability *gasp*
Decent list, none of which i disagree with.
Good work
FUCK YOU JEFF :D!
Posted By: Where's Jeff Hardy? (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 01:50 AM
i think the appeal of Andre was that the feats of strength that he performed in the ring, such as the tug of war that he won, with two teams of three men pulling on each arm, were not rigged to make him look good or strong.
if Andre wanted to pick you up and throw you half way across the ring, there was nothing you could do to stop him.
Andre was arguably one of the strongest men to have hit pro wrestling...ever. in terms of pure unadulterated strength, i think only Big Show and Khali would be on par...and i am not 100% sure about Big Show.
and who the hell is CM Punk?
Posted By: Darth Mortis (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 01:57 AM
I think ur right about all but Kennedy. In a sense though, I see what u mean about Kennedy so i kind of agree.
I don't like to get into overrated & underrated though because there r several different definitions of what a legit good pro wrestler is & there really is no definitive answer... There r those who like watching big guys but a lot of people like high flyers & aren't 2 high on the big guys. They'll talk bad about RVD (example) because they don't like his style or Umaga (example) because he isn't their style, etc... but u made sense, & explained your answers, (as far as I'm concerned) & did so with out blatantly attacking. It's very hard to get a few people to agree with u on an overrated list & it seems u've accomplished this & more. I applaud u!
PEACE!
Posted By: THE BOMB! (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:01 AM
The only name on this list that I don't understand is Rhino. He's not overrated because no one really praises him that highly. Sure, he had a TNA title run, but didn't they have a bunch of injuries and throw him in as a transitional champ? Then again, he also was ECW champ at the end. I think he is what he is: a powerhouse who is good a brawling and can get to the main event if the writers work at it. Doesn't have the charisma or character to force his way there.
Posted By: Sly Reference (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:06 AM
Couldn't agree more with Kennedy and Rhyno.
Posted By: Heyebrow (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:09 AM
So you put RVD on the list but you don't put Jeff Hardy. All the guy is a freaking SPOTFEST....If you are gong to put RVD you got to put in JEFF HARDY....Oh YEAH and where is CM PUNK
Posted By: Fern (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:18 AM
The only thing I have ever heard anybody say about Michael Hayes is that he's a great talker but a horrible worker. The only significant thing he did as a singles wrestler was beat Luger for the U.S. title in May 1989. I don't think he belongs on the list because nobody thought he was a good wrestler to begin with.
I don't agree with Stan Hansen. The Triple Crown matches he had in All Japan with Kawada,Misawa and Kobashi were badass.
I dont really agree with Brody. I've only seen a few matches including a 60 minute draw with Flair that was really good.
I agree with all the other ones except for maybe David Von Erich. Very good list though.
If RVD went to ROH and was booked to wrestle Danielson or Aries for 30 minutes he would be exposed for the spot monkey that he is.
Oh wait he does cool moves so there's no way he can possibly be overrated. I forgot.
Posted By: slayer for mayor (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:23 AM
Man, the guy who wrote this list is a fucking punk. The fact that a scrub like this could even have an article run in 411 says something about where the site is going.
Posted By: Vallejo (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:25 AM
RVD is very much NOT overrated...the man can go. You just didn't get to see it in WWE cause he had to work the "WWE style". Watch any of his matches with Jerry Lynn to see how awesome he really is.
No Cena=NO READS
Posted By: Ramsey (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 02:28 AM
Ya'll aren't men until you've seen Punk-Joe I, II, or III. Keep telling yourselves that you're wrestling fans, though. Maybe someone will believe you.
Posted By: The REAL MP (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 02:40 AM
Just becuase someone is overrated doesnt mean they're shit. They are just not as good as percieved.
Also what makes someone a good worker? Surely it's the ability to perform a match that excites and interests the crowd. RVD does this, no?
Also suggesting that RVD is a bas worker because of his reliance on the same moves is rediculous. Who would you class as some of the best workers ever? Ric Flair? HBK? Bret Hart? Newsflash they all had pretty stale (or should i say well-established) movesets.
Posted By: Zakk (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 03:04 AM
You put Hansen and Brody on the list how could you.
Posted By: Guest#4426 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 03:09 AM
Hansen,Brody and the R&R Express? Do you even watch wrestling?
Posted By: Guest#7809 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 03:23 AM
RVD, "He cant sell have you seen him take a piledriver from Dreamer or an R.K.O. from Orton. Dude you must smoke more green than him
Posted By: Deano (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 03:42 AM
CM PUNK is in no way overrated just watch his indy stuff the wwe just makes him look bad by making him use a crappy moveset and they won't let him be himself
Posted By: Dalton (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 03:44 AM
This was a pretty damn good read. And I must say, I agree with most of your picks and your argument about RVD actually made me convinced with your opinion but a couple of them irked me a bit. Batista? Now I will admit first and foremost I'm a pretty big Batista mark but you can't seriously call a guy that has been anally raped by the IWC for the past 5 years or so overrated. He has little technical prowess and virtually no submission specialties - yes - but c'mon the guy is just a badass and he has that intangible "it" factor (that's why amidst Orton, Flair, & H he shined the brightest) Furthermore, you put Batista and not Ultimate Warrior, you must of really been purple hazin it up with RVD there. Then Kennedy? I mean you put Kennedy on the list? I was watching his SD! debut match the other day against Funaki and I just said wow, no one has ever had a better debut promo than he did since Y2J back in 99. And time will only tell what RAW holds for him. You put Kennedy and not Punk, (just another example of if you've ever been on the ROH roster the IWC will love you no matter what).
The one pick that really, for a lack of a better term, pissed me off was the pick of Andre the Giant. You cannot call Andre overrated by any stretch of the imagination because Andre was never "rated" as a technically sound individual; he was always rated as a 5 star spectacle and was one of the first wrestlers to contribute to the 80s wrestling boom. If you call Andre overrated as a spectacle for his time then I would have to say in the famous words of good ol' JR "I think you're sorely mistaking there my friend". Anyway, one hell of a column otherwise.
Posted By: The GT Shaman (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 04:24 AM
To be fair to Kennedy, he worked really well against Michaels and got Batista back on track at the Royal Rumble last year.
Posted By: T.G. Corke (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 04:29 AM
RVD was completely over-rated. Itr truly was an irony that Cena carried his match at One Night Stand. The only pick I would disagree with is Kennedy. You said: "He's good but not quite that good and while his injuries have marred some of his push, he also doesn't seem to really be able to carry a match against a weaker opponent. Really, name one really great epic match (besides MITB) he's been in where he came off like a million bucks. He may be able to grow into that in time but at the moment, he doesn't quite have the skill to back up that big mouth and it might be best to wait on a serious title run until that happens else you expose his weaknesses too soon."
Well I would suggest you look at his 2007 Royal Rumble title match with that idiot Batista, who was on a streak of awful matches. Kennedy carried the match, told a hell of a story by dissected Batista's knee, lost it and still looked like a million bucks. I thought back then he would be champion within the year, but firstly he had bad luck with injuries and then the other shit happened. He still has great charisma, though, and I would say any opinions of him as an overrated worker might diminish when we see his match with Regal, whenever that happens.
Posted By: Conrad (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:02 AM
Stan Hansen deserves no part of this list! He defined what it was to be a monster heel in Japan. He also defined what it was to be stiff in pro wrestling. For Christ's sake he knocked Vader's eyeball out of its socket in their match.
And RVD? Please. His run in the E may have made him look overrated. But look at his REAL ECW matches with Jerry Lynn, Lance Storm, Al Snow, Bam Bam, Sabu, Taz, Balls, Justin Credible, and tell me that his hype wasn't deserving.
-Alex
Posted By: Alex (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:22 AM
Remember kids, opinions are like assholes: everybodys got one and most of 'em are shitty
Posted By: Guest#4922 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:29 AM
Why does everyone forget that by the end of that ONS match, the crowd had mellowed SIGNIFICANTLY? The "Same old shit" chants turned into "You still suck" when he busted out the Throwback, and died completely with the top rope fameasser. What you sheep-marks need to understand is that Cena, like most guys in WWE has a WAY bigger moveset than he's allowed to use in WWE. Look at Austin. He didn't even have 5 moves of doom once he got over, but before that the man was a technical master. Vince thinks people identify better with a guy with a small set of moves that everyone recognises as his own.
Posted By: Chris Lansdell (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 05:36 AM
IMO Triple H is the most overrated worker
Posted By: What about HHH (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:39 AM
I know I'm going to catch some flack for this but where's Flair? I the last DVD the WWE put and I could have sworn the matches were on repeat. Every match that man ever had was the EXACT SAME THING!!! He had a formula and he would follow it to a tee. Was he a great speaker ? Oh yeah, but that's all he was.
Posted By: David_Payne (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:41 AM
I like CM Punk, I do, but he is definately over-rated. His moveset, even in WWE, is a mish-mash of different Japanese guys designed purely to pander to less 'mainstream' fans.
As for RVD, I think he's fantastic...but, his selling is hugely flakey. He'll sell his leg like he can barely move one second, then hit rolling thunder and 5* seemingly on a whim with no ill effects, then remember after the match he's supposed to be hurt. As for that piledriver, awesome looking move, but it only got a 2 count...overselling is often worse than no-selling. Again, I'd class him as overrated due to the fact that better, more consistent workers are not eulogised as much as him. Cena is underrated IMO, can't be overrated because few actually rate him.
Posted By: dennett316 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:45 AM
hey man,you forgot orton.He's one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time!!!
Posted By: david (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:48 AM
chris jericho
Posted By: Guest#3359 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:54 AM
oh, and samoa joe. those two couldn't be more overrated
Posted By: Guest#2387 (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 05:55 AM
A little bit harsh naming Kennedy seeing as he's really only in the start of his career.
Also disagree with RVD. I agree sometimes his selling did suck but he doesn't need to with his other skills.
Posted By: Olympic Hero (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 06:16 AM
Where's Samoa Joe... the fat guy that does a lot of moves, but they all look like shit unless sold by a cruiserweight?
his "greatest" match was trading chops for an hour with another fat guy from Japan.
Posted By: David Burcham (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 06:42 AM
Being a great wrestler is basically the same as being a great musician - there's a generally agreed set of basics, but you don't need to conform to a standard to be successful or talented, otherwise everyone who didn't wrestler like Kurt Angle would not be a good wrestler. You bring your own style to it.
In that case, I can't consider RVD to be overrated because everyone knows what kind of a wrestler he is, and they know what kind of thing they're going to see. He can't be overrated, because people don't claim that he did anything more than he actually does, if you follow me.
Posted By: guestreferee (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 07:42 AM
I'm perplexed by a lot of the choices. Not because I think you're wrong for calling them overrated, but because a lot of your choices have NEVER been workrate darlings. Rhino? Andre? Shane Douglas? Stan Hansen? Larry Z? Did I miss some period in time where these people were considered fantastic workers?
Posted By: Jed (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 07:55 AM
Agree totally with David_Payne. When I see a Flair match, all I see is exactly the same match each time REGARDLESS of who his opponent was, yet he gets this "greatest of all time" reputation. People say he's a great promo worker, but to me even those were just him repeating his catchphrases over and over.
Posted By: guestreferee (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 07:59 AM
i agree with u totally on alot of names in there..almost all..except batista n rvd
surprisingly u forgot to put john cena in that list..since u talked about power wrestlers with no skill..n loud mouths
anyways since batista has arrived in wwe as d vons bodyguard till his first world title..what do u notice?..some improvement..i cudnt stand this guy too..but did u people know batista is actually a year elder to triple h..thats right..batista is 39 years old..hhh is 38..well thats not my point..lol..batista from his first title reign..has shown alot of improvement..when i saw him in the ring with hbk last month..he looked better..he looked alot better on the mic..he can act now..n i think hes improved alot on his wrestling as well..n when a wrestler improves so much..n think about it..big dave of 05..n big dave of now..there is a big difference..n plus he has given alot of wrestlers wins over him..morisson..edge..kennedy..etc..i dont complain about him..then again..how did you not put in john cena ?..lol..who has not improved..infact has gotten worse n more boring..n his move list has shrunken to 4 or 5 moves..n batista has not yet become a wwe champion..hes a world heavyweight champion which isnt worth that much..i believe batista will improve with time..n he needs to switch rosters with cena n come to raw..fued with orton n hhh..his evolution family..n hbk ofcourse..which was quite a treat..i have respect for batista..
rvd..i dont know how u wud call him over rated..a former wwe champion..a guy with great atheletic ability..hes better than jeff hardy..who is considered as a main eventer in wwe right now..lolz..rvd over rated n jeff hardy not mentioned in the over rated list..jeff beat hhh..that was a fluke?..or no..lol..rvd beat john cena..a superman..rvd had martial arts to back up his in ring wrestling talent..i dont know why u claim rvd was over rated..the guy put hard work in the ring unlike cena with 4 moves..n rvd had chemistry in the ring with alot of wrestlers..like jeff..eddie..hhh..hbk..etc..if theres one wrestler i wud like to add to the wwe roster..its rvd..they r missing him badly..i thought orton vs rvd instead of orton vs jeff wud ve been amazing to see
mr kennedy is over rated..but i wud say the guy has potential for becoming a future main eventer..coz hes got charisma..n hes got something in him..may be an actors skills..but hes got that energy about him..n room for improvement..then again..another wrestler who has improved..
what has cena improved at?..n why isnt he in ur list..lol
whos cena got chemistry with?..jbl?
Posted By: sid (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:03 AM
Look at Austin. He didn't even have 5 moves of doom once he got
over, but before that the man was a technical master. Vince thinks people
identify better with a guy with a small set of moves that everyone recognises
as his own.
Posted By: Chris Lansdell (Registered) on May 15, 2008 at 05:36 AM
I will agree that's usually the case, but for Austin, didn't he become a brawler to protect his neck? It was after his match with Owen that I really noticed him become a brawler and abandon his technical skills.
Posted By: Hawkeye (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:09 AM
what about rey mysterio..wat the hell did he do to deserve a world title run over kurt angle n orton?..LOL
Posted By: sid (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:18 AM
Don't know how Batista makes the list. To be over-rated, surely you have to be rated by someone.
Batista is a chump.
Posted By: Melina (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:19 AM
While Kennedy is a bit overrated, his match with Batista at the 2007 Royal Rumble was very good, and was the catalyst for his MiTB win. Plus, he's over with the crowd and moves merch. THAT'S why he's going to be a future main eventer.
Posted By: Mike (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:36 AM
Watch RVD's matches from ECW (Jerry Lynn, Bam Bam, etc..) and still say he is overated. Don't blame him for WWE limiting his moves and what he can/can't do in the ring.
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:45 AM
Loved the column. May not agree with all of it, but anything that causes debate is good shit.
I couldn't agree more about the Rock-n-Roll Express. I grew up watching them and could not stand their matches. They were always the same. They were defined as the tag team of their era and that bugged the shit out of me.
Owen Hart should have been on the list. The IWC would've turned on him by now had he not died.
Posted By: Bull o' da Woods ! (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:46 AM
Actually every wrestler in the last 5 years in TNA or WWe has had their movesets drastically gutted by management, lack of tv time or safety reasons. the days of the great worker in the big 2 feds is over.
Posted By: Jake Fury (Guest) on May 15, 2008 at 08:50 AM
I have to admit that I disagree with RVD and Kennedy but it's your opinion. Everyone already pretty much said it