Please…Don’t Hate 5.18.08: Triple H
Posted by Julian Bond on 05.18.2008
In the conclusion of the “DX Flashback” series, we cover the man who has definitely had his fair share of fan admiration and on the same end a possibly equal amount of massive hate thrown upon him. We look at the former leader of DX/Evolution and the current WWE Title holder, Triple H.
Welcome everyone to Please…Don't Hate, the weekly column which takes a look at some of the most hated on and complained about wrestlers, companies, and topics within the wrestling world. This week we look at one of the most hated on and talked about wrestlers of the past few years, coming only second to John Cena, in the form of the multi-time heavyweight champion HHH. We will talk about the main reasons why people tend to hate on the man, and try to answer the question whether people hate him for his constant main event position or do people really hate him for his "family involvement", being married to the boss' daughter? But first…the readers.
Reader Reverb
This is the section where two reader comments, one being for last weeks topic and the other being against, are chosen and I give my two cents on them.
Last week's topic: B.G. James and Kip James (TNA Version)
Note to Readers: Someone pointed out that the New Age Outlaws actually first met the Dudleys in the WWE back in 2000, while I implied that the meeting of the two was a first time "dream match" in TNA. What I meant to say was that in TNA, it was really a "dream feud" to fans because when the WWE match did happen the company didn't really give the two teams a proper story or major lead-up due to Billy Gunn's (Kip James) pending injury and also because of the fact that it was before the Dudley Boys had established themselves as one of the greatest tag teams of all time, with their legendary TLC matches and adding on about 10 or so more tag team titles to their now 20 total reigns.
bighustle (Guest) comments:
I'd like them more if they put a little more effort into their matches. Not that they need to be running and doing flips or any of that nature, but guys like Sandman and Tommy Dreamer were for the most part immobile, yet there were still spots in their matches that were memorable. Their match at lockdown was nothing but right hand after right hand. Very basic. It was like there was no thought to it. Like they barely went over the match together. Other than that, i really like their promos and i feel like Kip could get over being the cocky arrogant heel, the MegaStar. And B.G. does a good job of the veteran, kinda like Terry Funk minus the violence.
And you're right, they don't dominate the tv time, so i don't know why people get bent out of shape.
I kind of have to agree with you on that one. While I do like the duo they definitely could step their game up a bit with their in-ring work. I know that they are getting older in age and move slower than they use to, but I think that they still have the ability to put on an above average match if they put their hearts into it. Pending this, both Kip and B.G. are master veterans with their mic skills and possess something that some wrestlers may not even come close to achieving in their lifetimes. With this ability, along with their long-time experience, they bring a unique perspective to the TNA roster that goes beyond the ring. And again, I argue that the duo are barely on TV in the first place and definitely aren't taking away anything from the other stars. If anything they are helping round out the already expansive roster of talented wrestlers on every show with their appearance.
Tom (Guest) comments:
The problem is they epitomize everything that is wrong with TNA. Old WWE workers essentially trying to piggyback off of their old fame and taking up space on the roster that could be better used for fresh home-grown talent. The VKM angle illustrated perfectly to fans that rather than trying to innovate TNA preferred to rehash old angles. The guys themselves aren't that bad, but what they represent sucks.
In regards to the above statement, I believe that the main thing that a lot of people don't understand about TNA is the fact that they are only using much known "former big star" wrestlers to help add credibility and visibility to their company. Love the ex Outlaws or hate them, when you turn on the TV screen you know who they are. If one is watching TNA and doesn't know about ANY of their homegrown wrestlers they'll turn in to see who they do know from the big companies (WWE, WCW) and then stay tuned to see what else TNA has to offer. People often complain about the duo (and other ex-WWE stars) taking precious time away from the other younger TNA talent or trying to rehash their former glory, but this is most definitely not the case. From what I've seen so far all the two have done was help put over other teams, help bring casual wrestling fans in with their known cred of being in the one of the biggest wrestling groups of all time, and sometimes just plainly stayed off of the TV screen until the writers found a good angle for them. Again, people think that all they want to do is hog up the screen when the case is that all they want to do is help the growing company succeed.
Now behold, the "King of Kings"…
Why People Hate On…Triple H
-Overstays welcome in main event spot
-Doesn't put people over/buries opponents
-Uses backstage politics and his status as WWE owner Vince McMahon's son-in-law to remain on top
-Too old to still be wrestling
My Reasoning for Not Hating On… Triple H
Let's get straight to it. Between his initial run as the leader of Degeneration X and his massive ovation with his return at Madison Square Garden in 2002, Triple H aka Hunter Hearst Helmsey (HHH) had been heralded as one of the best in the WWE and in the entire wrestling world. With the huge list of accomplishments he's achieved in this time, which include his stint in DX, his first runs as world champ, his popular feuds with the likes of the Rock and the Undertaker, his memorable fights against Cactus Jack (Street Fight/Hell In A Cell), his alliance with former rival Stone Cold Steve Austin as the dubbed "Two-Man Power Trip", and the notorious McMahon/Helmsey Era the man had gained only a handful of haters and tons and tons of raving and loyal fans. So at the height of all of this newly gained fame and notoriety Trips unfortunately suffered a horrendous quad injury that took him out for about half a year. Shortly after his return to the highly hyped Madison Square Garden and big title win at that following Wrestlemania the people slowly started to turn on good old H in the wake of his brief lackluster run as the WWE Undisputed Champ (which he won against Chris Jericho and lost against Hulk Hogan) and didn't want to cheer him as much as they used to. Even after rebounding a little bit with a pretty good Hell In A Cell match against Jericho, and a picture perfect feud and proceeding bout against the fresh out of retirement Shawn Michaels, the love for HHH faded just as the growing hate started to become more apparent.
The moment when things started going straight downhill with his fanfare was with the horribly unpopular decision of awarding him the Raw Brand's newly dubbed World Heavyweight Championship (ex-WCW Title) without any type of tournament or big match to back it up. Everyone and their mama hated the fact that there was a lack of build up to a major championship being created, and instead only saw the title being handed off to a guy like HHH. So with this domino effect for the next few years (and somewhat still continuing today), viewers have chastised Trips for hogging up the main event scene, constantly burying his opponents, and using his position as the son-in-law of WWE owner Vince McMahon to politic his way to staying on top. This is where I step in to say that it's time to let the hate go once and for all.
I admit that I was in the same exact boat as a majority of fans with their genuine hate for Triple H. I initially loved Triple H's character and the ass-whoopings he handed out to people like Mick Foley and Stone Cold as "The Game", but then I totally turned cold on him after he gained that World Heavyweight Championship. I slowly started to turn off Raw simply because the man would ALWAYS be on the screen and would ALWAYS have that belt around his waist. I ignored who his challengers were (HBK, Booker T, RVD, Goldberg, etc) because I assumed that they would lose to him. I ignored the following of his group Evolution (made up of Ric Flair, Randy Orton, and Batista) just cause, and lastly I ignored every single angle, story, and match that Triple H was involved in because of his constant dominance and my continual hate of it. What didn't help rid me of this feeling was my reading of the book "World Wrestling Insanity: The Fall and Decline of a Family Empire", in which the author gave his opinion and reasoning on how and why Triple H essentially brought the WWE down in ratings and overall popularity due to his constant position in the main event. While meant to be a light-hearted read, the book came off as being grudge-ridden with the writer mostly harping on the theories of why Triple H buried each opponent he faced and going into the possible reasoning behind why Vince McMahon would allow this to happen.
So the thing that made me change my ways and see the light was HHH's match against John Cena at Wrestlemania 22. At the end of the match I was waiting for the scene of Triple H winning the belt, and the start of the same tiring cycle of being on top, only to be shocked when the man put over Cena cleanly by tapping out in the middle of the ring. While the match wasn't the best in the world that one moment totally changed my perspective on HHH. I saw that the man who was known mostly for burying others and winning every match totally put over the guy (Cena) who a lot of people hated (and still hate) at the time. This also reminded me of HHH doing the same exact task of tapping out to put Chris Benoit over two Wrestlemanias ago. So it all hit me…HHH wasn't so bad of a guy after all. I automatically flashed back to all of things that he did during the time that I hated him, and the things that he's done since then, and noticed that I didn't take a step back to look at any of the good work that he was involved in and instead just focused on the bad. With that, these are the reasons why I believe that the man shouldn't be hated on so much.
The first gripe with Trips was with his continually iron-clad grip on the World Heavyweight Title. The man had held it a total of five times in between Sept. 02 – Apr. 05 (which is almost 3 freakin' years), with his shortest reigns being 3 months and the longest lasting almost 10 months. As much I agreed with the viewers that everyone severely wanted ANYONE else but HHH holding the belt, I realized that there may have existed the argument of Triple H being the best and main viable choice for being the champ over his opponents, with only a few of them being in the right position to hold the belt. As much as I wanted his rivals such as RVD, Booker T, or Kane to win the big one I now look back and think that it might have not been as fun to watch Raw every week because no one would be in the position of FINALLY pinning Triple H when it mattered the most. I realized this when I thought of the few times that I did tune into Raw being pretty excited and noticed that they were right before Trips was about to lose the belt (HBK, Goldberg, Benoit, Batista). So not crapping on the other wrestlers (who are definitely amongst my personal favorites) the fact may have simply been that HHH's constant, but sometimes tiring dominance, was the best thing for business from the WWE's point of view. Even one of the main members of the WWE Creative Team who helped with the decision of HHH's first Heavyweight Title run stated, in a recent article read here, that he was initially against this but later looked back and totally agreed with the final say after looking at the facts.
The other infamous beef people have with HHH is with the accusation that he mostly buries his opponents instead of putting them over. Again, I would have agreed with this statement a few years ago with his tons of wins, but even with the victories he tried to put over his competition as much as he could during their matches. People are very quick to point out that he tried to go out of his way to go over his foes in his matches and angles, but I think that this is quite the opposite. A grand example of this is with his Wrestlemania (WM) match against Booker T. A whole slew of people were stating that the storyline building up to their match was only destroying Booker's cred as a viable #1 contender, but what I saw was that the swarmy comments and beatdowns that HHH delivered came back with a receipt from Booker in the weeks following as he beat him a few times in tag team competition and gave a hell of a performance at WM. In fact, in all of his big matches Triple H always seems to go out of his way to put his opponent over when it counted. He helped people like Benoit, Cena, and Batista with their big major wins and even helped push even younger talent at the time like Shelton Benjamin and Maven with near upset victories.
Further more, the man helped usher in arguably one of the best factions in wrestling history with the leading of the group Evolution. The team made up of himself, legend Ric Flair, and fresh faces Randy Orton and Dave Batista, was one of the most unique groups at the time with its "past, present and future" gimmick working to their advantage. With Evolution not only did Triple H help his fellow teammates Batista and Orton eventually move up to main event status with their involvement and subsequent feuds, he also helped bring out the best in Flair with his last run in the wrestling business. When Flair first came to WWE he stalled for a good while trying to find some of that old magic he had earlier in his career. But by being the "old guard" of Evolution and the right hand man to Triple H Flair had another stint of sweet promos and pretty good matches, particularly against HHH. People may still nit pick this fact but you can't deny that the man has put over a lot more opponents than he's been accused of burying.
Lastly, the biggest complaint of all from Triple H haters is the fact that the man is married to the boss' daughter Stephanie McMahon. Once again I was in the same boat as these complainers wondering if Trips' everlasting spot at the top was mainly due to his close relationship to the boss of all bosses. But then I stood back and thought, "No…he's just really that damn good". I thought about the fact that I honestly have not seen a wrestler (since the Rock and Stone Cold) constantly put on average to good matches on a constant basis. I may not have liked all of the matches, nor liked the fact that he won a majority of them, but you cannot deny that he was a freakin' machine month in and month out against various opponents. If you can perform like that in the ring then you don't need any family connections or politicking to remain at the top. Nobody can deny that he does also have a slight bias because he is close to McMahon, but if HHH stunk it out in the ring on a regular basis they would no doubt pull him away from the main event scene. Even on his newest DVD, the man said (taken with a grain of salt) that he knew that there would be questions and a possible conflict of interest rising from him dating and eventually marring Stephanie, but everyone talked it out to make sure that this wasn't the case.
Triple H is damn near 40 years old and still continues to kick ass like the rest of them. People still hate on him for still being on top and he just answers back with putting on good match after good match. Even with surviving multiple, MULTIPLE injuries, his recent bouts against the much younger Cena, Orton, and Edge prove that he still has it and will continue to dominate the main event scene until his time has past.
Good Reasons to Love…Triple H
Feud With Shawn Michaels
Without argument Triple H's long standing series of matches against his close friend Shawn Michaels were amongst the best in his entire career. Check out the Summerslam Street Fight, Two Out of Three Falls, Elimination Chamber, Last Man Standing, Hell In A Cell, the 2002 Year-End Raw Match. If you don't think that ANY of these matches are any good then I just don't know what to tell you.
(The infamous ending of the Street Fight from Summerslam)
The Rise of Evolution
While some, including myself, didn't really appreciate the simple genius of the group in its genesis, Evolution (made up of HHH, legend Ric Flair, and future world champs Randy Orton and Batista) was arguably one of the greatest stables of all time. To purposely have wrestlers from the past, present, and future together (with a cool theme song to boot) was a great idea and made it even more intense and legit with Triple H being at the forefront as the leader and World Champ.
(Post Match Promo w/Evolution)
Still Going Strong
Even after many career threatening injuries Triple H continues to have good match after good match. Nearly 40, the man can still hang with the younger generation of grapplers (John Cena, Edge). The truest evidence of this was his stellar MVP performance at the recent No Mercy PPV, in which he wrestled not one, not two, but THREE matches in the same night with the last being a brutal Last Man Standing bout against his former protégé Randy Orton.
(Last Man Standing vs. Orton)
Without a shadow of a doubt Triple H is one of most gifted and decorated wrestlers in this generation. While I and many others may not have agreed with the decision of him constantly staying on in every single main event for as long as he did, you cannot deny that it may have all happened for legit reasons and you cannot over look all of the good matches and feuds that he's had in this time span. The true die-hard Triple H haters just have to try to stop thinking so hard about the man's personal business and how it affects his every move. The man has no doubt worked very hard to get where he has in his career and shouldn't have his work judged by the merits of rumored politics and undeserved pushes. Triple H has earned the name "The Game" and should be given his due for it.
On The Next Episode of…"Please…Don't Hate"
Jumping from the King of Kings to whom some may call the King's protégé, we cover Triple H's former Evolution teammate and his opponent in the Steel Cage match at Judgment Day, the famed Legend Killer, Randy Orton.
Who hates on HHH for being old? I've never seen that argument. 40 isn't that old in professional wrestling.
Posted By: Guest#1062 (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 03:30 PM
To be honest all of Triple H's hate seems to be on the internet. I've never heard him get anything less than a great positive ovation since coming back in 2007.
Also lets not forget the reason he's a 12 time champ is because he keeps losing the belt. his longest reign was 10 months when frankly he didn't have much competition who could carry a brand as champ. I mean the champ has to be the top hero or villian of the brand and the main event scene at that point didn't have many people who were near triple H's quality as either.
Posted By: Davy (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Undertaker: 43 years old
Shawn Michaels: 42 years old
Sting: 49 years old
Kurt Angle: 39 years old
Batista: 39 years old
JBL: 41 years old
Scott Steiner: 45 years old
Triple H: 38 years old
If someone's going to make the "too old" argument, methinks there are better targets to criticize. And those are just the people I found in the main event/upper midcard of WWE and TNA.
Posted By: Ange (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 05:37 PM
Nicely done, Julian.
Posted By: Mina (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:02 PM
Ange, Batista is 41.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:19 PM
I'm pretty sure Undi is in his late 40s now.. and what about the Flairs,Hogans and Funks of this world?They've wrestled consistently in the last 2 decades when they were still older than HHH.
Posted By: Propagandhi (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:36 PM
Batista was born in 1969. so depending on his birthday, he's either 38 or 39
Posted By: money mack (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:38 PM
Eh, not convinced. Looking back is dangerous, because it can either sour you to things that weren't so bad or paints a glossy-coat over things that were worse than you remember.
Part of the blame was due to how bad RAW was during HHH's reign (2002-2003 time) and, being the champ, he was naturally blamed. His match with Booker at WM was a joke though, a BAD example of Trips putting someone over. The Trips/Batista storyline was him putting someone over. He also had to work with Steiner/Nash/Goldberg on one good leg, so it's natural his workrate sucked during that time.
Basically: Yes, HHHate was a bit excessive and he has become less selfish in recent years. However, at the time I feel the hate was justified as RAW was extreme stale with him as champ. Enjoyed his non-title programs over the last 5 years more than his "I WANT WORLD TITLE" feuds (see HHH/Flair 2005, HHH/Big Show 2006)
Posted By: mr_wishart (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:43 PM
Good pro-HHH propganda.
Yet why does he do things like the BURIEL of London and Kendrick?
They come out to help him on time - he doesn't put them over - oh no - SQUASH.
Even Hogan wasn't that lame.
HHH - NO BUYS.
Posted By: Rob~! (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:52 PM
people were mad when hhh was given the WHT. well mission accomplished. that was the whole point of the ceremony. HHH gained massive amount of heat and became a bigger heel.
Posted By: rey (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 06:52 PM
a hhh and umaga math would a good send off.
Posted By: mark7 (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 07:29 PM
Now that I think about it, yeah the London Kendrick thing was weird.Though I'll admit when London and Kendrick came out I was first thinking "Awesome Triple H will be leading these two to greatness." but the crowd poped for Pedigreeing them so clearly Triple H knew what he was doing. Most Wrestlers beleive getting a Pop live is more important than internet whining, so if Triple H knew he'd get some noise from it (and he did get noise) it proved just how good Triple H is at working and entertaining a crowd.
Posted By: Davy (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 07:38 PM
having hhh be the face of raw, and wwe champ is a good way of increasing his chance of being cast in the thor role
Posted By: jeremiah (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 07:43 PM
No thanks, I'll continue hating him if it's all the same to you.
Posted By: m8 (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 08:15 PM
"Check out the Summerslam Street Fight, Two Out of Three Falls, Elimination Chamber, Last Man Standing, Hell In A Cell, the 2002 Year-End Raw Match."
...That's the 2003 Year-End RAW. Sorry, correcting people is my thang.
Posted By: Crazy8 (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 08:18 PM
I think like any wrestler at the top you have to look at every move on it's own merit. HHH has done a lot to put younger wrestlers ov er, but he has also buried established guys (Booker T, Jericho, etc. He had that awful run on top with the reunited DX, that really didn; do a thing for the business, and there is no reason for his current run other than to stroke his own ego. He could put over a guy like Punk tomorrow and he would deserve some credit.
The fact of the matter is HHH is talented and a main eventer, but he is not in the same class as a Hogan, Rock, or Austin when it comes to drawing power. He does in fact get a lot handed to him because of his family connections.
When you look at it though, every top guy deserves criticism.
Posted By: Willie D (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 08:41 PM
I hate the "...well he had to lose a lot to be a 12 time champion" argument because nowadays, the only reason why he even loses the title is so that when he inevitably wins it back, he'll be one step closer to having more title reigns than Flair.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 09:01 PM
Shelton Benjamin and Maven? Great examples of pushes H has helped with, to be sure. Maven basically sucked, and Shelton Benjamin is consistently jobbing and being held down beyond reasonable belief.
Posted By: isk (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 09:18 PM
Davy, there's a difference between popping a crowd for one moment and burying a pair of would-be future main eventers.
And I'm sorry, but the finish to the HHH-Booker T fued always rubbed me the wrong way. Of course, a lot of Booker T's fueds in WWE rubbed me the wrong way.
I just never bought Multiple Hs as the top guy. Maybe it's my fault for watching him back when he was the Conneticut Blueblood, but he always reminded me of (and I hate to use the comparison) to Jeff Jarret. A serviceable worker who should be near the top of the card but not carrying a company.
Posted By: G-Walla (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 09:28 PM
The fact of the matter is that most wrestlers don't peak until their late-30's. It mostly has to do with them getting started at a later age than other sports, plus it is much tougher to get noticed nowadays.
Posted By: Guest#6264 (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 10:32 PM
Personally I've always had respect for HHH, I hated him in Evolution but I knew that there was a point to the whole story, we got Orton and Batista. Yes he cheated, yes he was King Shit for a very long time but as you stated, every match he worked hard not only making himself look good but his opponent, hence the cheating so it looks like he can't beat them any other way. There are few in the business who can be such a despised & hated heel and a switch in story lines and he is loved by all, old people, babies, kittens. Yes he married up, yes in some small part I'm sure that has helped him rise to the top, but he has also worked his ass off and it may be random and most don't acknowledge it but he does put new guys over. Ask yourself, where Orton would be right now if HHH hadn't been involved in his career? For me Orton opened my eyes with his Hardcore match with Foley but he cemented his future as main event status against HHH.
But, one thing I will never forgive is trashing Takers bike and throwing it off the stage on SD! sad day that was!
Posted By: Claire (Registered) on May 18, 2008 at 10:35 PM
FUCK THIS ARTICLE AND FUCK ANYONE WHO COMES ANYWHERE NEAR DEFENDING THE CAREER OF TRIPLE H!!!!!!!
Let's begin by how this guy came from a lame-ass gimmick of a privileged blueblood to the ass-kicker of all ass-kickers, all the while being nothing more than a DECENT in-ring mechanic. That's right; he was in the ear of Vincent Kennedy McMahon vis-à-vis The Kliq, and soon crowbared his way into the family business by banging the boss's daughter. Unlike Shawn Michaels, (who actually had charisma and was entertaining in the main event scene week-to-week, but his indictment is a different story altogether), this guy just doesn't know when to go the fuck away respectfully. This sniveling shit was in on the Montreal Screwjob, (which he had no place in being in at all), to sitting in on production meetings every goddamn week! It's no accident the guy blew two quads out, I’m sure there is plenty of wear-and-tear when you’re down on your knees in front of the promoter all the fuckin’ time!
I love the argument that the guy puts over talent. Outside of Cena, Batista, Orton, and his good ol’ buddy HBK, someone please tell me who he put over that has had a lasting impact on the industry and was better for it? Booker T – BERRIED, Goldberg – BERRIED, Jericho – BERRIED, RVD – BERRIED, Steiner – uhh…..let’s skip that one because he was a shell of himself at that point! The fact remains that this douche is in business for him and those who he buried have their own talents to thank for getting/keeping themselves over.
I’ll concede that he has good matches every week, but does anyone remember a FIVE-STAR CLASSIC he had with anyone not named Austin, Rock, Foley, Michaels, or Undertaker? The answer is a resounding “NO”. Reason being is that those aforementioned five had that “it” that so many smarks and industry-types seems to refer to, but can never quite define. Meanwhile, Cripple H, (still love that nickname Tom Zenk gave him), seems to chug along with lukewarm promos (The Rock’s impressions of them still keep me laughing), lame-ass angles (Katie Vick, anyone?), and matches that follow the same formula.
Does the guy have a place in history? I’m sure he does, but not in the same pantheon as we’ll remember Hart, Flair, Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc. The guy has a paint-by-numbers in-ring career, but who he’s related to will assure that his pursuits will be seen as epic and eclipse just about everyone who we ever cheered for. I’m near 30-years old, have been a fan/admirer of the business since I was five, and I’ve never seen a performer stay over by offering so much less than anyone else.
Posted By: thechriseco (Guest) on May 18, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Good article... I would just like to point out something about the london and Kendrick situation.
Triple H pedigreeing London/Kendrick is no difference than Austin Stunning every talent the WWE had to offer. It plays into his gimmick because Triple H has reputation of being not the nicest guy even when he is fan favorite.
Posted By: Sean (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 01:09 AM
Will you people quit your ridiculously narrow minded rhetoric of "he berried this guy, he berried that guy"
HHH DID NOT BOOK FOR WWE.
Goldberg, Jericho, RVD, Steiner were berried because Vince didn't create them. In the exact same way Bret Hart got berried in WCW...Vince was never going to put an outside guy over all his top guys. Sure, all 4 of them eventuallly got a title run but Vince had to put his guys over the top of them first.
This was clearly evidenced by his handling of the Invasion angle and complete burying of WCW...but I guess that must of been HHH's fault as well??
In one breateh you mention HHH as a burier but laud applause on Ric Flair...a guy renowned for holding others down back in the day, a worse backstage politician then HHH.
Hell Austin walked out on his contract a couple times due to creative differences but none hates on him.
The truth of the matter is that HHH has been the best heel for the last decade in any US promotion. His in ring style supports this mentality and is why he excels in certain matches that allow him to cheat and use ol' Sledgy.
Posted By: Stephen (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 03:10 AM
People need to remember that the Londrick Pedigree was most likely due to Paul London's unauthorised use of a shooting-star press, and that other crap happened to them, like being relegated to heat/not appearing on TV, and jobbing for a month or more. Their "burial" extends much further than being Pedigreed, and i'm sure their "burial" was not HHH's personal idea...
Posted By: Fury (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 03:51 AM
"I hate the "...well he had to lose a lot to be a 12 time champion"
argument because nowadays, the only reason why he even loses the title is so
that when he inevitably wins it back, he'll be one step closer to having more
title reigns than Flair."
Absolutely, Thanks JJ! Defending him is one thing but do it in an intelligent manner! We all know (or should know) he's gunning for lucky # 17! That's y anyone who says his win over Orton @ No Mercy doesn't count as a title reign is (not to be rude) stupid! That's what my problem with him is... of course he puts some guys over... He probably really doesn't mind (truly) because he'll eventually get it back 2 jack the stats up! He uses his personal ties with McMahon to make history... it's BOLOGNA & that's exactly what my problem with him is..
O, & I've never heard of anyone hating on him for being old & if they do they're just being nitpicky. I hate when they call a guy old... Taker's 43, Shawn is pretty close @ 42, & HHH is 38 (I believe). They aren't that old... especially considering hogan & Flair. I don't mind their age anyway as long as they can still go in the ring with the younger guys & HHH, Shawn Michaels, & Taker can & that's all that should matter to everyone! Instead everyone wants to complain about something so they come up with something stupid to say! More living.. Less complaining folks. It leads to a healthier lifestyle!
PEACE!
Posted By: THE BOMB! (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 04:16 AM
Good pro-HHH propganda.
Yet why does he do things like the BURIEL of London and Kendrick?
They come out to help him on time - he doesn\'t put them over - oh no - SQUASH.
Even Hogan wasn\'t that lame.
HHH - NO BUYS.
So you mean to tell me it would look realistic either one beating HHH?
Posted By: Jay (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 05:39 AM
The whole burrial thing kills me. WWE, while scripted is set up as competition. There eventually has to be a winner. If everyone won ever single match would you still watch? That would be dumb. Politics happens in every career. If HHH found a way to work it to his advantage, well good for him. If it makes you feel better knowing you can\'t play the corperate politics game so you bitch when someone else does, well whatever makes ya sleep at night. If people are so worried about putting other people over shouldn\'t that make the Brooklyn Brawler the number one wrestler of all time?
Posted By: imskyclad (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 05:53 AM
Ill say it again and again, HHH SUCKS, SUCKS, he is a suck up and hence, his rise to fame. HHH could have been better, if he was not a suck-up, but a clean guy, who play by the rules. Granted, he has accomplish many things, but he did it by backstabbing. He sucks and still sucks, and will ever suck.
Posted By: Rebel (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 05:57 AM
thechrisco or wateva your name is u ar an absolote idiot. dont u hav anything better to do than whinge about HHH. H also gave benoit the moment of his career. he made batista a world champion. jobbed to cena numerous times. put shelton over (althou it hasnt gotten him very far) jobbed to jeff hardy. get off the guys back he is a great wrestler and at the top where he deserves to be. 12-times the King my friend.
Posted By: Ben (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 07:28 AM
Hey Ben. Read the post closely, I acknowledge the fact that he put over a few people and is a decent in-ring performer. Lest we forget that as much as he's put over talent, for that talent to come to fruition you have to be on TV once in a while. Instead, we get your boy kicking off RAW with rediculously long promos, multiple DX reunions, and squashing assorted tag-teams.
Sure he helped give Benoit the moment of his career. Months later, Benoit was strapless and back to the midcard feuding with MVP putting on clinics. Meanwhile, Crips was at the top of the card 'making' Orton by derailing his face push after one month.
It's one thing to put guys over, but when you're the guy sitting in production meetings with your wife/boss you have a responsibility to help the guy you made reach his potential to help carry the company. Unfortunately, Crips is more concerned with ways he can 'outtitle' Flair and move his shitty merchandise.
Posted By: thechriseco (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Back when he was the title hogging, career destroying Triple H of years ago, I HATED the guy. I'm not like a lot of wrestling fans. It took a long while. Hell, he used to be one of my favorites. But he hogged the title for so long (even with short little breaks from time to time) and burried a lot of deserving people. It got old, but WWE just did not let up. But, personally, I've never been an unreasonable man. The man reason I hated him was I was sick of him hogging the main event. Even if he'd lose the title, the whole show would still basically revolve around him, and before long he got it back.
Then he lost the title to Batista. After that, for years he didn't even come close to the title, and when he finally did a few times, it was only to help push the current champ. Personally, that was all I asked. The show no longer revolved around him and the main event and belt finally saw some other holders. (Don't get me started on Cena overstaying his welcome, though).
Now, even with how much I HATED this man, I don't care anymore. I like him again, and do not mind him being WWE champion at all. Though, take that with a grain of salt. I still don't fully trust him after his history. I'll have to wait and see how this title reign goes before passing judgment.
If he goes back to his old ways, I'd find it hard to ever trust him again and never want him around the main event again. If he doesn't, then I welcome him in the main event from time to time. I just personally don't like to see ANYBODY on top for that overly long. Other people deserve a shot now and then.
That said, I personally find it ridiculous that he is currently a 12 time champion. I've always personally felt nobody deserves that many title reigns. I found it ridiculous that Flair held the top prize 16 times, but at least that was over such a long career. I don't care who it is, once you start getting into double digits with the top prize, I think it is time to cut it out and let other people have their chance.
Posted By: RavenEffect (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 04:56 PM
Just like to point out another thing seeing they are making comments about Triple 12th reign.
Angle has 12 reigns also and he did in the less time than Triple H did.
Posted By: Sean (Guest) on May 19, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Chriseco: U honestly reckon trips is wrestling to break flair's record? thats ridiculous. if anything he will equal it
Posted By: Ben (Guest) on May 20, 2008 at 02:53 AM
"Just like to point out another thing seeing they are making comments about
Triple 12th reign.
Angle has 12 reigns also and he did in the less time than Triple H did."
Does he? I know Wikipedia is not the most trustworthy source, but for Angle, I could on find:
WWE/WWF Title: 4 reigns
WCW Title reigns (During Invasion angle): 1
World Title reigns: 1
TNA title reigns: 2
That only totals 8 title reigns as a company's top champion. Even if you count smaller promotions, he held the Heavyweight championship in Power Pro Wrestling. He also held something apparently called the "IWGP Third Belt Championship" which is described as a World title. So if you include those two, that makes ten.
Even so, I agree with your overall sentiment. Ten title reigns in his short career is A LOT. Kind of bit ridiculous, really. At least, though, MOST of his came with a reasonable amount of time in between.
A lot of Triple H's reigns came very close to one another with little or not break. Heck, there was at least one or two times when the title was vacated, only to go right back to him.
Posted By: RavenEffect (Guest) on May 20, 2008 at 09:52 AM
HHH is AWESOME. Most of the internet wouldn't know REAL greatness if it fell out of their assholes. Most of these guys worshipped Benoit, want an Edge Matt Hardy title feud and think CM Punk should be the raw champion RIGHT NOW... they are idiots.
Posted By: Dudeguy (Guest) on May 20, 2008 at 11:56 AM
no thanks. i still patially hate him. My problem with him comes from the fact that wrestling still has not recovered from the damage this guy did to it from when he came back in 02 til he decided to put over batista. This guy will never be in the same league as Austin, Hogan, Rock, Flair, or even his buddy HBK. God knows how many angles he shot down, and how many guys he has held back. There are times I like this guy, but then I hear him rip Hogan in some interview, which is funny cause he will never be in Hogan's class, or ill think back to him saying bret hart was the "averagest there is, was and ever will be" when he couldnt lace the hitman's boots on his best day, and my favorite, the bullshit they forced down our throats by calling this guy the "best in the business today" when the great kurt angle worked in the very same company.
i will say this...i like this guy a hell of alot more these days, as I have no problem with him since 05. He has done a great job...he even got himself in shape after he got fat for a few years.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on May 21, 2008 at 06:56 PM
I think WWE & TNA should have a WAR like WWF/E & ECW/WCW
Posted By: HHH Fan 4 Life (Guest) on October 24, 2008 at 01:40 PM
I totally agree with chriseco, but unlike raveneffect i cant find it in myself to trust HHH again. As far as Ben goes, you come off as a pro HHH lover probably due to some dx angle. You, my friend are out of touch if u honestly believe HHH isnt manufacturing a multiple title history so he can be in a record book. Think of this...If HHH went to TNA, could he make a difference?...Now think of this...what if Austin or Rock went there...totally different results huh?
Posted By: realistic (Guest) on May 10, 2009 at 06:18 AM
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