411 Fact or Fiction 6.05.08: Edge’s Title Win, Special Enforcer Nash, Vince’s Million Dollar Mania and More!
Posted by Larry Csonka on 06.05.2008
Week ONE HUNDRED and EIGHTY ONE features James Thomlison, Andrew Critchell and discussion of The Beautiful People!
Welcome back to another week of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week, two men go to battle as James Thomlison enters the 411 Arena to do battle with Andrew Critchell!
And remember to go to TigerFlashGames.com and play addictive, free flash games when you're bored at work, school, or whenever! Ashish made this place because he loves you.
1. Vince's Million Dollar Giveaway is a desperate ploy to regain lost viewers.
James Thomlison :FACT. Although it's by default; at least that is what I thought when I sent this to Andy on Sunday Night:
When the ratings are where they are, isn't anything they do a desperate ploy to regain lost viewers? When they advertise Stone Cold for SNME, is that not a desperate ploy to regain viewers? It can even be argued that the draft is a desperate ploy because hopefully some lost viewers will think "shakeup" and start tuning back in. Granted, giving away money is naturally a more incentive laced act to try and get people to watch, but at the end of the day half the shit they do is to try and regain lost viewers.
However, it has become SUPER FACT after the slob job Vince gave us on Monday Night RAW. He provided verbal fellatio to as many former, current, and potentially new viewers as humanly possible, and in doing so he came off as completely desperate. It started harmless enough, but by the end of the promo it had gotten quite sad. Specifically calling out people who blow off wrestling while simultaneously asking us to shill wrestling to all our friends was just, as I said, a sad sight from a seemingly desperate man.
On a related note, one has to wonder why they'd be desperate in the first place considering that they make a fuckton of cash and are coming on their most profitable year in the companies history.
Andrew Critchell :FACT. Like JT says, pretty much everything WWE does is a ploy to regain lost viewers. Pretty much everything every TV show does is a ploy to regain lost viewers or generate new ones or maintain the ones they have. Like Vince says, it's all about the money and more viewers = higher ratings = more that they can charge advertisers = more money. What is being overlooked here is the increased synergy that this contest will generate between the on-air product and WWE.com. We've heard for months now that growing WWE.com is focus for the future and a contest like this will put a lot of eyes on WWE.com and a few might stick around and look at some other content on the site. Nothing wrong with that!
James Thomlison :FACT. Why not? Christian, Joe, Booker and to an extent Rhino (hey, they've done better with him than WWE ever did) are all top or near the top of the card guys. Why they've inserted Robert Roode in here considering they kill every push they give him surprises me a little, but he has been booked to the point where we are already aware he is simply a body and has no chance in Hell of winning. Other than that though the other guys can put on good matches and I see no reason why throwing them all together is a bad thing. Nobody important gets hurt by losing and well, let's face it, that leaves Roode and he has no momentum to hurt anyway. Couple faces, couple heels, throw in the champ and oh that wacky Kevin Nash as ref, and you have a fine match in my opinion.
Andrew Critchell :FICTION. Rhino sucks. There's just no getting around that. Sure, TNA has done better with him than WWE did but that doesn't mean he still isn't terrible. Because he is. Having him in such a high profile match is a complete waste because he has no potential for grown and the KOTM match is one that TNA can use to make new stars just by their inclusion. Give me one good reason why Rhino should be in this match over James Storm. Storm is at least as high on the card as Roode is. I can't imagine one single sane person saying to themselves "you know, I wasn't sure about ordering this PPV but now that's Rhino is in it, I guess I'll buy it!" So why include some guy who is basically just taking up space on the roster when you could include another guy who might become a big star for you one day? That just seems completely asinine to me, but so does a lot of what TNA does so whatever.
Score:1 for 2
3. While Edge walked away with the title, the booking of the TLC match made him look weak.
James Thomlison : FACT. FACT. FACT. FACT. FACT. DEAR GOD FACT. I have said for months now that the Vickie/Chavo/Bam/Edge Guys interaction with Edge has done nothing but make him look weak as shit and this match is no different. This is a guy who a year and a half ago was RAW's top heel, a solo act consistently one-upping the WWE's poster boy in Supercena. Now he needs the help of his GM girlfriend, three jobbers, the forgotten Guerrero, 83 chair shots and nine tables to beat a guy??? In a match that is his forte no less??? Seriously when is the last time he beat someone clean? Funaki? CM Punk? Who hasn't beaten CM Punk lately? What is this doing for the Edgeheads? The joy of getting buried every week by Edge's next PPV opponent, that's what. The whole fucking angle disgusts me. Edge has proven that he is a top tier guy but he is now being made to look like a little bitch at every turn and isn't nearly the legitimate threat he once was.
Andrew Critchell :FICTION. JT, you're missing the point. Good thing I am here to help you with my wit and wisdom. First of all, you proceed from a false premise, that being Edge should act the same way when facing Undertaker that he acted when facing Cena. But Undertaker and Cena are completely different guys so it would only make sense that Edge has to pull out a different bag of tricks to face one guy as opposed to the other. Cena is still relatively new on the scene while Undertaker has been dominant for over 10 years so it only makes sense that Edge would need some extra help to triumph over Taker. All of that aside, what people are going to remember is that A. Edge beat the Undertaker in a great match and B. Edge won the title. People tend to remember the ends a lot more than they remember the means.
Score:1 for 3
---SWITCH~!---
4. The addition of Kevin Nash as the special guest enforcer for the upcoming King of the Mountain Match will do more harm than good.
Andrew Critchell :FICTION. Only because I don't think that it will do any harm at all. That being said, I don't think Nash being involved will do any good either. Besides, the fact that many are anticipating some kind of shenanigans pretty much tells me that there won't be any shenanigans at all. Ah Russo, you're still my fave! The King of the Mountain match is usually a car wreck anyway and the inclusion of one more person as "special enforcer" is not going to rock the boat. Wow, two vehicle related analogies in one sentence? Well, fly me with balloons!
James Thomlison :FICTION. I'm with Andy here. It's not going to do wonders to help it, but it isn't going to do wonders to hurt it either. It's just a way to get another body on Pay-Per-View and keep Kevin Nash involved with ongoing storylines. Nash is usually pretty square when "special enforcing" so I don't expect much out of him. I think about the most meaningful part of this is simply the "will he/won't he" factor to try and sell PPVs, nothing more.
Score:2 for 4
5. The Roddy Piper/Santino Marella/Cousin Sal/Jimmy Kimmel angle is a great idea to try and get new fans watching WWE programming.
Andrew Critchell :FICTON. Great? Not really. Good? Maybe. Harmless fun? Absolutely. I'm not sure what Kimmel's ratings are but he seems to do pretty well among the college aged demographic that WWE covets (kind of like Letterman back in the day) and the stuff he does on his show usually makes for some fun Youtube fodder. Cousin Sal is a big part of the Kimmel show so it's not like this is going to make WWE look low rent or anything. Besides, this "big match" is going to take place on Smackdown, which seems about right for it and you won't have to hear people bitch about this taking up time on a PPV or even on Raw. And depending how funny Santino is in this whole angle, some Kimmel viewers might be tempted to check out WWE. But ultimately this angle is designed to raise the casual TV viewers' awareness of WWE and it will do just that.
James Thomlison :FICTION. Any attempt to draw new viewers is a good thing, but great? I just don't see this garnishing the type of response they're expecting. Granted, Jimmy Kimmel (and to an extent Cousin Sal) has a loyal following, but here's an idea. If you're trying to use the show to get new viewers, don't schedule the match for 8:30 p.m. on a Friday night in the middle of the summer. That is where this idea goes from good to kind of mishandled. Not only that, too many uninformed people will think two things to themselves: 1. "Who the fuck is that?" (regarding Santino) and 2. "Jesus, that guy is still around?" (regarding Piper). In fact, I think far more wrestling fans would be inclined to tune into Jimmy Kimmel as opposed to the other way around.
Score:3 for 5
6. Thus far you have liked TNA's booking of "The Beautiful People."
Andrew Critchell:FACT. Though to be fair, as long as they are not made to be covered from head to toe, I would pretty much say "FACT" to any booking that allows these lovely ladies to remain on my TV. Still, I do like where they are going with this, having these two women who are obviously hot not be ashamed of it and to flaunt it with an air of confidence. It is better than what they had them doing before, that's for sure. Plus young Velvet Sky isn't exactly what I would call "good" in the ring and this angle let's her be featured without exposing her weakness to a detrimental degree.
James Thomlison :FACT. Although anyone who knows me knows I am hard pressed to knock anything that they are doing with the Knockout's Division, probably the most well-oiled division in all of either of the big two nowadays. TNA asked these two ladies to play uber-bitches and that is exactly what they are doing; and doing a fantastic job at it if I may say so myself. A lot of people have invested themselves in – both TNA and the fans – have invested themselves into the division and it's been characters and booking like this that has gotten it to the place it is today.
Score:4 for 6
These two finish 4 for 6! Come on back next week for more of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition!
The Beautiful People is the only reason I turn in to TNA (and to maybe see Angle kill himself). Everyone talks up Joe, but the only thing he has on the girls is that his tits are bigger.
Posted By: Angry Bear (Guest) on June 04, 2008 at 11:21 PM
The big two? You mean the ONLY tow, being as though there is no other legitimate fed worth mentioning.
Posted By: KaReCKeR (Guest) on June 04, 2008 at 11:22 PM
I totally disagree with the comment that Rhino sucks, because he doesn't.
I don't think a single sane person on the fence would buy it because of James Storm in the match either.
Rhino is 10 times more recognizable than Storm, so that's why he's there.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on June 04, 2008 at 11:56 PM
ROH has PPV, they matter. Everyone else at least has DVDs, so they matter two.
Try to broden your horizons KaReCKeR. And learn to spell.
To Angry Bear: Or the fact that Joe has more talent in his pinkey than both of those girls have put together.
Chris is spot-on with his Rhino assessment. Rhino will never be an Angle, Hart, Benoit, Guerrero or Michaels, but he has talent. In fact I'd say Storm has roughly the same amount of talent as the Man Beast.
Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Agreed with chris.
Rhyno is one of my favorite wrestlers actually. I pop for the gore like a sum bitch!
Posted By: the dude (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 12:16 AM
I can't imagine one single sane person saying to themselves "you know, I wasn't sure about ordering this PPV but now that's James Storm is in it, I guess I'll buy it!"
What do you have against the War Machine? He can wrestle. Turn him heel and have him face Joe. I'd pay to see that.
Posted By: JD (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Rhyno/Rhino is the man and a former TNA heavyweight champion, so theres that cred. He needs to be a heel with christian so they can burn the mic together.
Posted By: Amp (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 12:47 AM
Kevin Nash will cost Samoa Joe the belt and Booker T will become TNA Champion.
I CALLED IT!
Posted By: JF (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 01:21 AM
Eh, Rhino I can live with. I agree that I would have liked to have seen Storm in the match, but Rhino is not the guy to get rid of. Roode on the other hand is. There have been moments, brief fleeting moments, where Roode has looked like he might possibly, one day, in a somewhat distant future be a star, but those are few and far between. Roode being in the match, aside from the possible tension between he and Booker, is NOT putting butts in seats.
Posted By: Andy Clark (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 01:37 AM
While I think ROH is cool there are only 2 legitimate fed they are tna and the e ROH seems more like the minors
Posted By: rba (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 02:30 AM
Hey, Christian Cage isn't exactly a Hart or an Angle either. I don't hear any "Let's get that guy out of the match, he's taking up space that could go to Matt Morgan" cries.
I agree wholeheartedly with Critchell about Edge using different tactics for different opponents, though.
Posted By: T.G. Corke (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 03:37 AM
"rba," your comment was wrong and you're a bad person for thinking that. You should punish yourself somehow, like head into a wall. But not a brick wall, that's too harsh.
Ring of Honor was touring when TNA was still... wait, scratch that - IS still doing shows in one place all the goddamn time. What makes them more legitimate? Better wrestlers? (They stole their best from Ring of Honor.) Better booking? (NO.) The fact that they have a cable deal? (Big deal, so did the Naked Trucker & T-Bones Show.) Mysterious money from pandas? Jeff Jarrett?!? WHAT?!?
Posted By: Elmo Machete (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 03:47 AM
Who hasn't been a TNA champion when it comes to guys (or girls) who were either let go or jumped from WWE?
Posted By: PHOENIXZERO (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 04:47 AM
@ Elmo Machete.
I'd agree that ROH are legit, however, I disagree with two things. How many of the "best" that TNA stole are home grown ROH talent? Not Joe, Not Daniels, Not AJ. They may have appeared in ROH, but they also appeared in other indies too. oh, and let's not forget that ROH isn't averse to booking WWE rejects/drug failures/dropouts either. (Guerrero, Hardys, Noble, Storm)
Also, I take it the one place you refer too is the Impact Zone, where they tape their weekly show?
Let's look at their schedule for this month. (credit TNAWrestling.com)
6/6: Poplar Bluff, MO Black River Coliseum
6/8: Southaven, MS (PPV) Southaven, Mississippi
6/9: iMPACT! Orlando Universal Orlando, Florida
6/10: iMPACT! Orlando Universal Orlando, Florida
6/12: Liverpool, England The Liverpool Olympia
6/13: Liverpool, England The Liverpool Olympia
6/14: Coventry, England The Coventry Skydome
6/15: Essex, England The Brentwood Center
6/20: Bloomington, IL US Cellular Coliseum
6/21: Danville, IL David S. Palmer Arena
6/22: Cincinnati, OH Cincinnati Gardens
6/23: iMPACT! Orlando Universal Orlando, Florida
6/24: iMPACT! Orlando Universal Orlando, Florida
That's 4/13 shows taking place in Florida by my count.
Is their booking at the moment awful? no-one's going to argue with that.
You're obviously an ROH Fan, and that's your choice, but don't let that taint your opinions of other products.
Posted By: Daishi (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 05:02 AM
"But Undertaker and Cena are completely different guys"
Of course. Cena wins more and always clean.
Posted By: Guest#6127 (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 06:46 AM
Elmo, you are an idiot that does not deserve a column and this post proves it. TNA is a more important wrestling company than ROH for many reasons, the biggest of which is yes, they have a TV contract. They attract a million viewers a week to their little show on Spike. If you don't think that is a big deal, go ask the guys running ROH, they surely would like more than the 100 people that show up to their shows and the smarks on this site to know they exist. When WWE gets 400,000 PPV buys for an inconsisquential show, TNA gets 75,000 buys for one of theirs and ROH gets 50 or so, it proves that they are no important. They are a poor-man's ECW with a stable of talented wrestlers and "great" booking. Fact is ECW changed the wrestling business and Paul Heyman was a genius. ROH will disappear and nobody in the front office will amount to squat outside a HS gym or armory. Wondering who will tell you that WWE and TNA are better companies and more important promotions than ROH? Go ask CM Punk, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, and all of the alumni that left the minor leagues to pursue a career with companies that matter.
Until Nigel McGuinness accomplishes something with a major American promotion, only you, Samuel Berman, and overseas fans will remember him. Here in the states, nobody will care.
Posted By: Guest#5939 (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 08:03 AM
alot of people give tna shit for how they are booked and rightfully so. however, no one cant deny how their womens division is more compelling than whatever is going on with the rest of the roster as well as most of the wwe.
Posted By: rey (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 08:22 AM
edge is the leader of his own stable. of course he is going utilize all his cronies to get the job done. during his feud with cena, he wasnt alone. he had lita. and how many times did lita interfere in his matches? flair did the same with the horsemen, hhh did it with evolution and even jbl had his cabinet. that is the point of a stable, to protect the star at all costs.
Posted By: jd (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 08:28 AM
QUOTE: "But Undertaker and Cena are completely different guys"
Of course. Cena wins more and always clean. /QUOTE
Do you even watch wrestling at all? Cena hasn't won an important match in months. UT simply doesn't lose 'clean', ever. Cena will put over anyone on the roster if asked; Taker's idea of putting someone over is a pat on the back after he's no-sold their finisher and pinned them cleanly.
Just look at all the shenanigans Edge had to pull to get the title. What did UT do to get the title? Oh yeah, pin one of the company's top stars cleanly.
Posted By: Ken B. (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 08:51 AM
I have to disagree with Andrew about Rhino. Rhino most certainly does not suck. I know I like him. He was awesome in ECW. Even WWE did an okay job with him for a while, but then they forgot him like they do anybody who isn't their home grown talent. TNA has also done a fairly decent job with the guy. He can be entertaining on many levels. I think he probably works best as a heel, though. Especially one that is just completely insane. The Gore can be awesome when he looks like he literally wants to kill the guy.
Also, to both guys, I must say (as far as the Edge stuff)... where have you been? When has Edge EVER been booked well in the main event? WWE has always failed miserably at properly pushing the guy, which is utterly frigging pathetic considering how talented he is. During his entire feud with Cena, EVEN WHEN HE WAS THE F-ING WWE CHAMPION, they made him look like a huge p*$$y who didn't stand a chance on top. Cena would completely own him every week on Raw and at every PPV even if Edge wound up winning. They never let Edge look even remotely equal.
Now they just do the same with his feud with the Undertaker. At least he and Taker do a good job of making them look equal in the matches, but WWE screws up the booking so royally as always that it just makes Edge look like the least credible champ ever. So, the guy loses the belt, gets beat in a rematch or two, can't get the job done, so he needs to run crying to his girlfriend to get it done. Then, he needs Chavo, The Edgeheads, Bam, Papa Shango, Gozer the Destructor, Vigo the Carpathian, Dr. Octopus, Freddy Krueger, Cruella De Vil, a shot gun, a taser, and Satan himself to even stand a chance against the Deadman. Yeah, that makes him look like a credible champion. Don't get me wrong. I know it can be good heel heat to have a heel who uses help to win the title, but you need to make him at least look like he stood a chance of getting the job done on his own. He's just a heel because he takes the easy way out. They have never booked Edge well. They way they book him makes it seem like Funaki could be WWE or World Champion if he just had cronies backing him.
Posted By: RavenEffect (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 09:12 AM
while anything may be a ploy for ratings, shoving your money in a person's face for ratings is just ridiculous for me and personally i would have liked to seen edge win the title without interference....it does fit his character to cheat but that match had some good spots and i would have liked a clean ending to it.
Posted By: cj (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 09:59 AM
"UT simply doesn't lose 'clean', ever
Just look at all the shenanigans Edge had to pull to get the title"
Like i said i wanted to see edge win the title clean but it's not UT's fault that edge beat him mostly due to run-ins. Stars don't make decisions on matches......well, not unless your name has 3 h's in it.
Posted By: cj (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I personally think they should have put James Storm in the KoTM over Rhino for two main reasons.
1. With the champion being a face in a match like this type usually you would book more heels in the match over faces. Right now, on paper there is roughly 4 Faces involved in the match and only 2 heels.
2. The other reason with storm you know you would get the sick bump/ mark out move from him. Where as right now I don't think any of the current guys will do anything that will surely being that high risk like in past.
The only reason I would care for both rhyno and cage involved in the match is for the hopes that one will turn on each other. Adding another heel in the World title hunt, which gives TNA another viable opponent for Samoa Joe. Which he surely needs right now. Seeing that all top guys in the company are mainly faces at the moment.
Posted By: Sean (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Critchell, I'll try to say it nicely, but you're WRONG about Rhino. Other than people who are already in the match, there is no one else on the TNA roster who deserves this shot more. Besides, it is obvious that Christian will do something that costs Rhino the match or vice-versa so it builds a fued between the two of them. Rhino has great chemistry with most of the other participants in this match, has put on great matches since his return, and is mad over with the TNA crowd.
Besides, check your urban dictionary, he is STILL the true ECW champ... Kane's carrying the replica belt.
Posted By: Mark 4 CM Punk (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Um... my reasons for watching TNA... James Storm, Christian Cage, AJ Styles, and the Knockouts, especially The Beautiful People. So yes, having James Storm in the match would have had more appeal to someone. Don't assume just becuase you wouldn't pay for something nobody would.
Karecker said "The big two? You mean the ONLY tow, being as though there is no other
legitimate fed worth mentioning."
Hence why he said the big two.
Posted By: Toddo (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:15 AM
How come the non-WWE fanboys don't have their own column?
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:22 AM
"edge is the leader of his own stable. of course he is going utilize
all his cronies to get the job done. during his feud with cena, he wasnt alone. he had lita. and how many times did lita interfere in
his matches? flair did the same with the horsemen, hhh did it with evolution and even jbl had his cabinet. that is the point of a stable, to protect the star at all costs."
True, but that's the point I was making at the end of my previous post. See, the big difference was that Ric Flair and Triple H both were booked to look like credible champions and true threats. They were truly the man to beat. They were booked to look like they COULD kick arse, but just decided to take the east way out anyway, rather than actually work for it. It gives them just that little extra something as a heel, because you know they can put on a good match and they are (storyline-wise) intentionally depriving the fans of a true ending. Like I said they way they have booked Edge makes it look like ANYBODY could be champ so long as they had cronies backing them. At least guys like Triple H, Ric Flair, Hollywood Hogan during the nWo era, and others looked like they deserved to be on top, but just would do anything to stay there.
Posted By: RavenEffect (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:22 AM
The only question this time that seems to spark a fire was the Edge booking question. IMO the only way to ask this question is by going retro:
Do you think the booking of Flair during The Horseman days made him look weaker than when he was facing (and beating) Race for the title previously?
Flair was suppose to look weak - that is what you do with heels no matter their skill set or talents. Did Flair really have to get on his knees each match and beg off opponents during their fan induced comebacks. Did he have to do the Flair Flop? Did he have to scream "no no no" during the dreaded knucklelocks that Nikita or Steamboat would put him in?
Of course he did, he was a heel!
Stop viewing Edge's loss of edge as a character flaw and view it as respect to the craft. The role allows him to be the top heel on SD, Chavo to eventually turn face, the young green studs to develop their craft while naively defending a weak champion and most of all allows the top faces to actually look like top faces in a federation which in the past has blurred the lines between face/heel.
I like the character and the booking. Much applause to the E!
Posted By: thegunisgood (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Flair during The Horseman days don't lose 90% of his matches, and Four Horsemens don't used in every minute of his match. He don't need lader shots, 9 broken tables and match filled with interferences to beat Sting or Harley Race. If heels help him, it happened once, or twice, but not 30 times in the match
Posted By: L'Mago (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:42 AM
James Storm is the motherfucking truth but most people don’t know/realize that because he hasn’t had a “breakout” moment yet. The King of the Mountain match, since it is “TNA’s signature match,” would be the perfect vehicle for Storm to have his breakout moment. Instead he loses to Rhino on Impact and now Rhino is in the match. This is the same Rhino that has never drawn a dime in his life and was absolutely awful as champion, possibly the worst champion TNA has EVER had (with the exception of maybe Abyss.) At this point Storm is an unproven commodity but there is the possibility that he could be a huge star. With Rhino you know exactly what you are going to get. He’s not going to move up the card, he’s not going to put anyone over, and he’s never going to have a “classic” match by ANYONE’S measurement so why put someone like that into this big match as opposed to a guy in Storm who *MIGHT* be the future for TNA?
And Rhino really does suck. If you can’t see that then you’ve got horrible taste in wrestling.
Posted By: DivasRGr8 (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 10:52 AM
The one thing Vince and the WWE doesn't realise, is that this contest, and the draft will only increase ratings for a very short time. They really should scrap the contest idea, and stat focusing more on long term idea's that will keep the ratings up. Better story lines, and new faces might be the better way to go if they want the rating to do better. Something like a contest will only last for a short time. In the mean time TNA could make a comback, and win the ratings war if they fix the problems within their program. It has happened before Vince! Don't sell TNA short!
Posted By: Guest#8625 (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:58 AM
DivasRGr8 said, "And Rhino really does suck. If you can’t see that then you’ve got
horrible taste in wrestling."
Well, Maybe it was directed at me or maybe it was directed at anyone else on the page who defended Rhino. You are entitled to your opinion, just as we are entitled to ours. Let's just agree to disagree, but don't tell me my taste in wrestling sucks.
First of all, I never said James Storm doesn't deserve to be in the match. He does. TNA is overflowing with great talent and they use them pretty well... not perfectly, but pretty well in comparison to the competition.
After the talent that is already in the match, I would put James Storm as first alternate. Besides, he did prove himself about a year ago exactly. Wasn't the match between Harris and Storm a MOTY candidate last year??? I won't disagree with you on his deserving to be in there.
In the end, TNA management agrees with those of us who are happy to see Rhino in there. Who knows, maybe James Storm will get a run-in???
...And just so you know Rhino = + 1 buy in my household. I was teetering on not getting it because my brother (who I usually split the costs with) works on Sunday night now, but I think this is just one I don't want to miss.
Posted By: Mark 4 CM Punk (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 11:27 AM
"Like i said i wanted to see edge win the title clean but it's not
UT's fault that edge beat him mostly due to run-ins. Stars don't make
decisions on matches......well, not unless your name has 3 h's in it."
It has been said by many other wrestlers that once the bell rings, the match is Taker's to book. End of story. He wins and loses as he wishes, and how he wishes.
I've always said he's a genius because his gimmick demands that he be impervious to pain and never lose. That's the advice I'd give to up and coming superstars--to ask for the gimmick of "I never lose cleanly." That's a hell of a great gimmick.
Posted By: Ken B. (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 11:37 AM
I have to comment on the awesomeness of the slow motion footage of Edge after his ONS match shown on Raw this week. It wasn't your average cocky heel celebration. He looked like someone who'd just escaped the unescapable and destroyed a monster in doing so. The simple mouthing of "we did it" to Vickie really gave you an appreciation of what a journey he'd been on. Like all great heels, you can hate him for what he did, but you can completely relate to his motivation and subsequent jubilation or, in this case, total relief.
Posted By: max doig (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Sorry ROHbots. If the best you can do for a pay-per-view broadcast is a taped show with storylines that are 2+ months old, you are bush league. End of story.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Ken B wants The Undertaker buried, lol
Posted By: pdh (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 01:11 PM
ROH > TNA, but then again, what isn't better than TNA?
But why can't we all just settle our differences and agree that WWE really sucks the dick right now?
Posted By: The REAL MP (Registered) on June 05, 2008 at 01:27 PM
Rhino doesn't suck. He blows.
And Samoa Joe has more talent in his two big fat titties than Angelina Love and Velvet Sky have in their entire delicious bodies.
Posted By: joequando (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 01:31 PM
I think the adding of Kevin Nash kind of mentions a screwjob ending because in the history of TNA, the title has always changed in King of the Mountain. Also, Joe is having problems with Nash, while Booker T is getting a really big heel push. I know Joe has only been champ for two months, but TNA has screwed him out of winning the title so many times and there is the possibility that they'll screw him over again.
Posted By: guest (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 04:16 PM
"Sorry ROHbots. If the best you can do for a pay-per-view broadcast is
a taped show with storylines that are 2+ months old, you are bush
league. End of story."
And each PPV only get 25 buys, or something miniscule and pathetic like that.
Posted By: Guest#9600 (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 05:47 PM
In response to question 3, the booking for the match shouls not make Edge look weak at all because everyone knows that that Edge is a great heel and the line that divides a face from a heel is that faces will win by playing to the rules, while heels will do watever it takes to win, no matter what it takes. With that being said, it only makes sense that Edge had La Familia involved in the match to help him win the title, it makes sense psychologically as far as the storyline goes, and it makes sense as far as extending the heat that Edge already gets from the fans. How can you not like the booking for that match and besides, Edge going over as champion was the right call because having three brands with three face champions isn't good for ratings, at least one brand needs to be dominated by a heel
Posted By: Justin (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 06:28 PM
JT, you pissed me off about how you said Edge was a solo-act when facing Cena in 06.
Have you forgotten Lita? you know, the best woman in wrestling history?
Posted By: Litas Biggest Fan (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 09:20 PM
After what I saw from Velvet Sky and ODB earlier on Impact! they really do need to keep Ms. Madison out of the friggin' ring.
And it's SO sad that Angelina Love does her complete shot-esque face buster a LOT better than Carlito used to do it.
Posted By: Jexus (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Let's clarify something here. ROH DOESN'T get only "around 25" buys. They got lousy buys in Canada because their PPV's have a hard time with the companies that provide them there. They are doing a show in Toronto shortly and are almost sold out (which is damn good for an indy fed with NO advertising in a new market). I hate how everyone loves to dismiss them because they are small. They ARE smaller than TNA and WWE and are taking baby steps to grow so that they don't go out of business like Smoky Mountain or ECW. Their pay-per-view numbers are growing, thus increasing their DVD buys, which is the heart of their business. As income comes in from those increases they can then explore TV options.
I am a fan of ROH and readily accept that WWE is the #1 promotion in America and TNA is clearly #2 (although a VERY distant one). That doesn't mean that I can't appreciate a product from another company. Dismissing ROH and other good indy companies (FIP, Chikara, PWG,...) is just denying yourself, as a fan, the chance to see something other than convoluted storylines and wrestlers past their primes staying in the spotlight due to politics. It is a viable product and an ALTERNATIVE to the BIG 2.
And whoever wrote that no one in ROH's office couldn't get a job anywhere else is clearly not aware of the product AT ALL!!! Gabe Sapolsky could book circles around all these hollywood wanna-bes writing bad soap opera and disguising it as wrestling! He's won Booker Of The Year for maybe 4 straight years from The Observer. So yeah, I think he could maybe get a job elsewhere. Don't comment on things when you have no basis for your snide comments. Just a suggestion.
Posted By: The ORIGINAL Guest (Guest) on June 06, 2008 at 04:53 PM
Christian Cage is in the King of the Mountain match? Let's get that guy out of the match, he's taking up
space that could go to Matt Morgan.
Posted By: LatinoMeat (Guest) on June 06, 2008 at 06:59 PM
I hv to disagree on the Edge PArt
c he is a hell
a hell is a hell and will use heelish tactics
That can mean use of his RMY or vickie or any one or any thing
thats why he was put in a TLC Match in the first place
Edge deserves to a CHamp and hemay use heelish tactics
but thats what heels do
also
guys let me refresh u r memmory for a second
EDGE BEAT CM PUNK but he used HAwkins and Ryder for Destraction
so its not xactly in main event matches even in lesser matches
he does use his Buddies
Posted By: Siddhant Dash (Guest) on June 07, 2008 at 12:21 PM
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