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Thoughts From The Top Rope 06.04.08: The Top 25 Wrestlers (1998-2008)
Posted by Daniel Wilcox on 06.04.2008



Good morning all and welcome to another classic edition of Thoughts From The Top Rope. Last week saw the first of a 3-part series chronicling my wrestling fandom; the top ten pay-per-views feature got a lot of feedback and that will be address along with feedback of this and next week's column, in a special feedback column in a few weeks. But one thing that needs point out is that these lists are not "best ever" lists. It's the Top 10 Pay-per-view/Top 25 Wrestlers/Top 50 Matches of my time as a wrestling fan; June 1998- June 2008. So please, nobody ask me why Ricky Steamboat doesn't make this list.

Thoughts From The Top Rope: The 25 Greatest Wrestlers (1998-2008)


Note: Chris Benoit was not considered for this list due to the fact that I don't want anyone to be offended by the potential of me celebrating the career of a man who murdered his family and killed himself, regardless of the circumstances. If you're offended by the lack of Benoit in this list, sort your priorities out. However, Chris Benoit's matches will be considered for the Top 50 Matches (1998-2008) because not doing so would be a discredit to the people he worked with. I would also appreciate it if we didn't have another major debate about this in the comments section. Thank you for your understanding.

Unfortunately, I'm still in the middle of exams, so I had no time to blurb for all the list, just the top ten. But obviously if any of this is question, it will be addressed in thr forthcoming feedback column. Let's get to the countdown.

25. Ric Flair
24. The Big Show
23. Samoa Joe
22. Christian Cage
21. The Dudley Boyz/Team 3D
20. Lita
19. Jeff Hardy
18. AJ Styles
17. Batista
16. Rob Van Dam
15. Eddie Guerrero
14. Randy Orton
13. Trish Stratus
12. Rey Mysterio
11. Chris Jericho

10. Mick Foley


My wrestling fandom essentially began with the image of this man being thrown from the top of Hell In A Cell and ten year's later the guy remains one of my favourites. And although for the past eight years, he has not been a fully active competitor, he has provided dozens of memorable moments both inside and outside of the squared circle. Whether it was hilarious segments with The Rock in the late nineties, or backstage skits with Kurt Angle, Edge and Christian as commish, Mick always managed to make me laugh while watching wrestling, and few people can say they did that. But aside from Foley's character, he's also been a big part of making new stars. His matches in 2000 with Triple H solidified The Game as a main eventer and a star, and his brawls with Randy Orton, Edge and Ric Flair since have all been epic encounters filled with cringe-worthy moments involving barbed wire, thumbtacks and yes, fire. Foley's still a crazy son of a bitch, and one of the reasons wrestling is as enjoyable as it is.

9. Vince McMahon


Controversial? I don't think so at all. Mr. McMahon is arguably the greatest heel in the history of professional wrestling, and he and Stone Cold Steve Austin produced one of the best feuds of all time in the nineties. McMahon was the catalyst Austin needed to rise to the top and he never looked back. Vince obviously played his role to perfection, and it's an angle that is often imitated, but its quality has never been matched. That being said, Vince remains one of the most over heels in the company and always will do; he's a recognizable face and truly the driving force of WWE. His feuds with the likes of Lashley, DX, Ric Flair, Undertaker and more have produced memorable moments even if they are simply a rehash of something that's already been done. He has as much ability to make a star out of a performer as anyone else, because anyone who opposed him becomes a huge face. While we may not appreciate the on-screen character, it does have eternal usefulness and at one time in the last ten years, was the best heel in the history of wrestling.

8. Kurt Angle


Where do I start with this guy? Few pro wrestlers get so good so quickly, but Angle's rise was meteoric, and his numerous classic matches are epic in their viewing. This is a guy that always brought the good and always had the best match on the card, whether he was wrestling Shawn Michaels, Brock Lesnar, Chris Benoit or The Undertaker. Few men in this business can say they've had as many great matches as Kurt has, and many of his wars with Benoit, Shawn, Jericho, Austin and Shane McMahon remain some of my favourite matches ever. And even after numerous neck injuries, the guy continues to do the business and make half the guys in TNA look bush league. And while I can't give enough praise to his in-ring ability, his personality and charisma are also spot on most of the time, and whether he's been a heel or a face, Angle usually gets it right (except when he goes on screen saying he doesn't support the troops to get cheap heat). Kurt Angle's a legend and one of the best in-ring performers ever.

7. Undertaker


His reputation goes before him, but The Undertaker is one of the greatest characters in the history of wrestling. It was his demonic, sadistic nature that first drew me to wrestling and over the years he would find ways to entertain fans that no one would see coming, be it riding down at Judgment Day on a motorcycle, having a classic with Kurt Angle in 2006 or flying from a ladder through four tables in his final match ever (for now). The Deadman is a true legend in this business and a consummate professional. And while he hasn't always been a fantastic in-ring performer, his matches hold an element of drama that few wrestlers can bring to the table. While many would argue that he doesn't like to put people over, anyone who steps into the ring with Taker is automatically elevated simply by being in the ring with him, and they know they have to bring their A game to keep up with him because when he wants to be, he's the best.

6. Shawn Michaels


In 2002, Shawn Michaels returned to in-ring action. I don't think there are too many who would have thought that he'd be able to perform on the level he has done since, but as far as I'm concerned, he's level of awesomeness has far surpassed his performances of the mid-nineties. Every night, Michaels goes out with the one goal of having the best match on the card, and practically every time, he does just that. His feud with Triple H produced a plethora of classics in its own right, and will go down as one of the best in history, while he's also produced utter greatness against the likes of Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, John Cena, Chris Jericho and many, many more. For my money, there's never been anyone better inside the ring, and his natural charisma is similarly unparalleled. While Shawn may not have been a main event mainstay like Austin, Rock and Cena were/are, his desire to go out there is that of a champion.

5. Edge


Unlike most of other guys on this list, Edge actually debuted after I began watching wrestling, and in the last 10 years has gone on to become the company's biggest heels. Edge is one of few people who can claim that they were in the one of the greatest tag teams in recent history and is one of the greatest singles competitors in the same era, but the Rated R Superstar can do just that. While he made his name as part of Edge and Christian (guess which part), since he's broken out, he has proved that he more than able to carry a show on his back and do things that people have never seen before. As part of E&C, Edge produced many breathtaking moments in the form of TLC and ladder matches and captured countless tag titles. As a singles competitor, he's managed to refine his in-ring work to become one of the most consistent performers in WWE. His feuds with John Cena and Undertaker have been fantastic, and his matches with those two, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair and others have been modern classics that won't be soon forgotten.

4. The Rock


When it comes to pure entertainment, no one matches the ability that The Rock has. No one. His ability to electrify a crowd and get 20,000 people rabid tops that of Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Steve Austin and all the rest. The man was born with such amazing natural charisma and he's taken full advantage of it, so much so that he only had to spend a couple of years in the wrestling business before moving on to making bad movies. But for the few years that The Rock was on top, he was also the most electrifying man inside the ring. His over-the-top selling and mannerisms were so good and got the crowd to believe in him. This was part of the reason that his 2003 heel turn produced another version of The Rock that was hugely successful. Heel Rock was awesome. A 9-time world champion, The Rock was never far from the top of the mountain, as the company had no choice but to keep him there because of his immense popularity. I have no doubt that The Rock is the most charismatic performer in wrestling history.

3. John Cena


John Cena over The Rock? Really? Yes, really. Cena's meteoric rise was a result of a connection with the fans, and nowadays that connection is so unique that he drives him to be the best. Never before has mainstream wrestling seen a character like Cena, someone who has wrestling fans absolutely split. The guy's like marmite and I love it. "Oh, but your top face isn't supposed to get booed!" Who gives a shit? When John Cena's in the ring, arena's stand up and they're into the show. And let's not forget that Cena's rapper gimmick was one of the best mid-card gimmicks the company has seen in the last ten years and actually served its purpose in getting Cena over enough to the point that they could put a world title on him. And even though he's only been a main eventer for just over three years now, his list of great matches is ridiculously long. His bouts with JBL, Chris Jericho, Edge, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Triple H and Randy Orton are as good as you'll see and a true testament to the man's ability. It may not be to everyone's taste, but the man entertains like no one else in the business right now can. By the time his career is over, expect his name to be among the list of all-time greats.

2. Stone Cold Steve Austin


Steve Austin essentially was the reason to watch Monday night Raw for several years in the late nineties. There's only one man in the history of wrestling who could be argued for as being as big a name as Steve Austin, and we don't talk about him in this column. Austin's star rose because of a combination of brilliant booking and Austin being a brilliant character. Austin's antics in the McMahon feud years are a highlight reel of the best Raw moments ever and few people will ever reach the heights that Austin did again. Austin took a role and perfected it. And although he was never the best in the ring, he was always able to have a match that entertained any and all crowds. Steve Austin's had some amazing rivalries with the likes of McMahon, Rock and Triple H, and those will go down in history as some of the best ever. Austin may be a wife-beater and a piece of shit, but his contribution to modern wrestling is almost unmatched.

1. Triple H



I've got a funny feeling that I might get some stick for this one but hear me out. This list is looking at the twenty-five greatest wrestlers of the last ten years. Over those ten years who has been there the entire time? Triple H. And how many people have had as many title reigns as Triple H? No one. And how many people have had as many fantastic matches as Triple H? Maybe one or two. And who's had the same level of success as Triple H has as both a heel and a face? Again, no one. And no matter how much people say he's only where he's at because of his relationship to Stephanie McMahon, there's in no disputing that this is a man who has done a hell of a lot for the business and provided as much entertainment over the years as anyone else on this list.

The Rise of The Game: Towards the back-end of the 20th century, Triple H was looking to find himself after his running-buddy Shawn Michaels left the business with a back injury. Triple reformed D-Generation-X with good friend X-Pac, and Chyna, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn all joined the group, which would go on to become one of the most popular stables in wrestling history. A feud over the Intercontinental Championship in the summer of 1998 with The Rock and his stable, The Nation, allowed Triple H to establish himself as one of the top talents in WWF. The pair had a fantastic ladder match at Summerslam that year where Triple H was victorious. Soon enough, Triple H was in the main event as a heel and by the summer of 1999, he would be crowned WWF Champion for the first time and The Game was born. Soon after, Triple H aligned himself with Stephanie and Vince McMahon and the McMahon-Helmsley regime was in full effect. During this era, Triple H was in tremendous physical shape and putting on some of the best matches of his career. In the year 2000, The Game had memorable matches with Cactus Jack, The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Steve Austin. Triple H wrestled Austin early in 2001 and they gave us one of the greatest matches of all time in a 3 Stages of Hell war.

The Injury and the Return: After a run as a tag champion with rival Steve Austin and a couple of cups of coffee as Intercontinental Champion, Triple H suffered in an injury during a tag team match that would sideline him for nine months. The Game underwent surgery on his quadriceps and missed the entire Invasion angle, but on January 7th 2002, he made a triumphant return in Madison Square Garden. On that night he announced that he would compete in the Royal Rumble. A couple of weeks later and The Game won the Rumble match. Going into Mania, Triple H and Stephanie were going through a divorce and McMahon aligned herself with Triple H's opponent, Chris Jericho. At WrestleMania X-8, the Game won the Undisputed Championship and hit the Pedigree on Stephanie to put the exclamation point on a successful return from injury.

From here, The Game would quickly lose the title to Hulk Hogan before going to Raw in the summer where he would engage in a war with old pal Shawn Michaels. The rivalry would last several years and is one of both men's greatest. In September 02, Triple H was crowned the first ever World Heavyweight Champion, a title he has held on four separate occasions. In the months that followed, The Game feuded with the likes of Kane, Rob Van Dam and Booker T and beat them all to retain the gold.

The Formation and Demise of Evolution: One of the things that Triple H will be remembered for was the creation of Evolution. During the course of a title match with Rob Van Dam, Ric Flair aligned himself with Triple H to help him retain the title. Soon enough, the group had added up-and-comer Randy Orton and powerhouse Batista, but injuries to Orton and Batista meant that Evolution would only consist of Flair and The Game for most of 2003. Orton returned in June and helped Ric Flair pick up a victory over Shawn Michaels. Batista came back towards the end of the year to take out Triple H's rival, Goldberg. At Armageddon 2003, Randy Orton won the IC title, Batista and Flair the tag titles and with a little help from the rest of the group, Triple H regained the World Championship.

The group was going strong. Orton's title reign would last a lengthy seven months while Flair and Batista would hold the tag straps on a couple of occasions. But The Game lost the World Championship at WrestleMania XX and would fail to regain several times over the summer of 2004. However, Randy Orton would win the World Championship at Summerslam, a moment that would lead to him being brutally kicked out of Evolution. The Game beat Orton for the title at Unforgiven and would beat Orton several times after that.

Over the next few months, Batista would start to rebel against The Game. In 2005, he won the Royal Rumble and in memorable fashion, he turned on The Game and announced he would beat him at WrestleMania 21. He did just that. Having put Batista over on 3 separate occasions, The Game removed himself from the limelight before returning on October 3rd. During an episode of Raw, he turned on his friend Ric Flair and battered him with a sledgehammer. The pair would have two fantastic matches at Taboo Tuesday and Survivor Series, winning one match each. From there, Triple H would go back to challenging for championship gold but he failed to beat John Cena at WrestleMania 22.

The DX Reunion and Further Injury: Both Triple H and Shawn Michaels had had several altercations with Vince McMahon over the course of 2006 so it was inevitable that the pair would reform DX and they did so in June of that year, much to the anger of McMahon. The duo ran riot over the next couple of months, pissing off McMahon at every opportunity and creating some light-hearted humor along the way. After beating the McMahons and Big Show in Hell in a Cell at Unforgiven, DX were faced with new adversaries in Rated RKO – Edge and Randy Orton. Rated RKO would beat DX at Cyber Sunday but their 5-man Survivor Series team would be wiped out. The two teams met in a tag team match at New Year's Revolution 07. The match was heading for classic territory until Triple suffered a second quad injury delivering a spine buster to Orton. The match fell apart and although The Game finished the match, it was clear that he would be out for a while.

Second Return and Regaining The Gold: Triple H returned to action 8 months later at Summerslam. He defeated Booker T with a Pedigree. Triple H then had a brief feud with Carlito and Umaga where he would come out on top on both occasions. When John Cena relinquished the WWE Championship prior to No Mercy 07, The Game saw an opportunity to insert himself back into the title hunt. He wrestled Randy Orton for the title at No Mercy and won the gold to become an 11-time world champion. He would have to defend the gold again that night, defeating Umaga. But old rival Vince McMahon informed the Game that he would have to defend the title again that night against the man he beat to win it – Randy Orton. The pair closed the show with a hellacious Last Man Standing match, which Orton would ultimately win, ending the Game's title reign.

Triple H would continue to chase the title, but lost to Jeff Hardy in a number one contender's match at Armageddon. He then failed to win the Royal Rumble when John Cena shocked the world with his return. But at No Way Out 2008, he won an Elimination Chamber match to earn a title shot at WrestleMania, but Randy Orton bested The Game and Cena in a triple threat match. One month later, The Game wrestled in a Fatal Four Way match for the gold, also involving Orton, Cena and JBL. JBL was eliminated first, soon to be followed by Cena. And after hitting Orton with a Pedigree, The Game dethroned the young champion for the third time. Orton has kept coming back at The Game, but Triple H has defeated Orton in a Steel Cage and Last Man Standing match in recent weeks.

Triple H's Greatest Matches


Originally I was going to list off The Game's 5 greatest matches, but there were just too many that didn't deserve to be left off of the list. So, ordered chronologically, here are some of Triple H's best matches.

  • Ladder Match, vs. The Rock at Summerslam 1998
  • Street Fight, vs. Cactus Jack at Royal Rumble 2000
  • Hell in a Cell, vs. Cactus Jack at No Way Out 2000
  • vs. The Rock at Backlash 2000
  • Iron Man Match, vs. The Rock at Judgment Day 2000
  • Last Man Standing, vs. Chris Jericho at Fully Loaded 2000
  • vs. Chris Benoit at No Mercy 2000
  • vs. Kurt Angle at Royal Rumble 2001
  • 3 Stages of Hell, vs. Steve Austin at No Way Out 2001
  • vs. Undertaker at WrestleMania X-Seven
  • with Steve Austin, vs. Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho on Raw, May 2001
  • Street Fight, vs. Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 2002
  • Elimination Chamber, vs. Shawn Michaels and others at Survivor Series 2002
  • Hell in a Cell, vs. Kevin Nash at Bad Blood 2003
  • vs. Shawn Michaels on Raw, December 2003
  • Last Man Standing, vs. Shawn Michaels at Royal Rumble 2004
  • vs. Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit at WrestleMania XX
  • vs. Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit at Backlash 2004
  • Hell in a Cell, vs. Shawn Michaels at Bad Blood 2004
  • Hell in a Cell, vs. Batista at Vengeance 2005
  • Cage Match, vs. Ric Flair at Taboo Tuesday 2005
  • Last Man Standing, vs. Ric Flair at Survivor Series 2005
  • vs. John Cena, WrestleMania 22
  • vs. John Cena and Edge at Backlash 2006
  • Last Man Standing, vs. Randy Orton at No Mercy 2007
  • vs. Jeff Hardy at Armageddon 2007
  • vs. Randy Orton, John Cena and JBL at Backlash 2008
  • Last Man Standing, vs. Randy Orton at One Night Stand 2008

And I'm sure that there are others I've missed out.

Legacy?: I think it's safe to say that Triple H's legacy will always be underestimated due to his family relations. Having said that, by helping along future stars like Randy Orton, Batista, John Cena and Jeff Hardy, The Game will have had a lasting effect on the progression of the business. And while it's unlikely his name will ever be mentioned alongside the likes of Ric Flair, Lou Thesz and others, Triple H is undoubtedly one of the biggest names of modern times and for periods, he was they best worker in the business; much like Flair in the late-eighties and Michaels in the mid-nineties, Triple H was untouchable in the ring in the early part of the decade. And whether it's as a part of an influential stable (DX, Evolution) or on his own, The Game has always been one of the most valuable names in the company and regardless of who his other half is, one of the most entertaining performers of all time.

The War Continues…


If you've missed out on the fun of the first few weeks of my fantasy booking of a TNA vs. WWE, you should catch up…

Week 1: The War Begins

Week 2: The War Continues…

Week 3: The Battle Lines Have Been Drawn

Week 4: Summerslam and Beyond

"The best idea I've heard for a TNA/WWE storyline!" – Chevy

"This is good shit! - Torad

"A brilliant piece of work!" - Faisal

"This is awesome stuff!" – 411's Andy Clark

"Genius!" – Brent

"Excellently booked!" - Banz

WWE Presents Unforgiven 2008

We get a video package highlighting the TNA vs. WWE war, specifically Edge vs. Christian and Sting vs. Randy Orton.

We get major pyro and the show begins.

Six-Man Tag Team Match: Jeff Jarrett, Samoa and Kevin Nash vs. John Cena, Shawn Michaels and Matt Hardy

Hardy starts with Jarrett, but JJ tags out early and Big Kev is in. Nash tosses Hardy to the mat and traps him in the corner and hits a couple of stiff elbow. Hardy slugs away with rights, hops up to the second rope and attempts an elbow but Nash catches him by the throat and tosses him back to the corner. Hardy ducks a clothesline and Cena gets the tag! Rights by Cena, ducks a clothesline and hits a flying shoulder tackle that staggers Nash. He tries for another one but runs right into a big boot. JJ tags in now and puts the boots to Cena. They slug it out and JJ goes low with a knee to the cut. He hits a slam and tags in Joe who misses with a running senton. Tag to HBK! Chops to Joe, Irish whip reversed but Michaels comes back with a flying forearm! Kip-up! Hardy tagged in now. Hardy hits some rights, tries for a discus punch but gets caught with a snap powerslam. Joe covers and gets 2. Joe tosses Hardy into the corner now and delivers the facewash. Nash in and he chokes Hardy out with a boot. Press slam by Nash now and he tags in JJ. Jarrett works a chinlock, Hardy fights his way up to his feet, hits the ropes and Joe knees him the back, allowing JJ to hit a DDT for 2. Joe in now and he hits a senton this time. Joe kicks the crap out of Matt while he's down and tags JJ in again. Jarrett sets up for a Russian leg sweep and hits it. That only gets a 2 count, so he pulls him up and hits another one. Another 2. Jarrett wants the Stroke now and sets up for it. Hardy elbows out and hits the Side Effect! Both men crawl to their corners. Joe tags in and prevents Hardy from making the tag. An enzuigiri staggers Joe. He grabs Hardy though but gets caught with a jawbreaker. TWIST OF FATE! Both men are down! JJ in illegally and Hardy gets the tag to Cena! Clothesline for JJ, and another. Cena cheap shots Nash. Protobomb for Jarrett! "You Can't See Me!" Cena hits the ropes and gets pulled to the floor by Nash. They brawl and Shawn is up top… FLYING ELBOW DROP to Jarrett! Shawn tunes up the band, goes for the kick, stops, and redirects his kick at Joe, but Joe catches the leg, spins Shawn round and locks in the Choke! COQUINA CLUTCH! On the floor, Nash wants to Jack-knife Cena, but Cena back drops out of it! Cena in and breaks up the Clutch. Jarrett nails him from behind and hits the STROKE! He drapes an arm across but Hardy comes off the top with the LEG DROP to break up the pin! Joe kicks the crap out of Hardy now and hits the MUSCLE BUSTER! Joe turns around and eats SWEET CHIN MUSIC! STROKE ON HBK! Cena gets JJ up for the FU, but Nash boots him in the face! STROKE ON CENA! Jarrett gets the cover and it's over @ 13:46!

Winners: Jeff Jarrett, Samoa Joe and Kevin Nash

JJ on the mic and says "we're only just getting started!"

In the back, Triple H tells T-Grish that he will cripple Rob Van Dam, just like he crippled Jeff Hardy, and tonight, the King of Kings goes back on his throne.

10,000 Thumbtack Match: Undertaker vs. Abyss

Match can only end by pin fall or submission. Bags of thumbtacks are positioned in each corner of the ring. They slug it out early and Taker gets the better of the fistfight – best pure striker in the history of SmackDown, after all. Abyss gets a thumb to the eye and goes back on the offensive with rights and he has Taker covering up in the corner. Abyss heads straight for a bag of tacks but Taker hits a big boot. Taker has the tacks now and takes them to the floor. He empties a bag onto the floor and goes back in. He goes Old School on Abyss but gets yanked from the top rope and crashes and burns. Abyss pummels him with right hands and grabs another bag of tacks. Big boot by Taker and Abyss rolls to the floor. Taker follows and beats him over to where he's positioned the tacks. GOOZLE! Low blow! Abyss whips Taker into the steel steps. Abyss rolls back in. Taker pulls himself up onto the apron and Abyss nails him, Taker holds on but gets pummeled. Abyss takes a charge and nails Taker who falls back into the pile of tacks! "Holy shit!" chants from the crowd already. Abyss goes out and rolls Taker back in and gets a 2 count. Abyss with boots now and chokes Taker out. Taker rolls to the floor, as he doesn't want to be on his back right now. Abyss out and they brawl. Taker takes control with a kick to the gut and has a chair… KILLS Abyss with it! Taker works over Abyss with right hands and rolls him back into the ring. This time Old School connects! Taker wants a chokeslam but he gets DDT'ed. Abyss has a bag of tacks now but… GOOZLE! Chokeslam! One…two…thr-NO! Taker is stunned and ponders bringing out more tacks. He grabs a back and empties it onto the mat. He calls for the Last Ride and gets Abyss in position… low blow! Abyss has another bag of tacks and empties them onto the last pile. He beats on Taker in the corner but Taker fights out with right hands. Snake eyes! Running big boot! Taker wants the Last Ride, but Abyss BACK DROPS HIM ONTO THE TACKS! Taker screams in agony and quickly gets to his feet… BLACK HOLE SLAM ONTO THE TACKS! Lights out! Eerie druid music plays, and the druids wheel out a casket to ringside. Abyss is freaked and the lights go back on. Abyss to the floor and the druids leave. Abyss caresses the casket and eventually opens it, and it's full of tacks. Abyss up to the apron and gets caught with a big boot. He's hanging on by with on hand now and Taker has him by the throat. CHOKESLAM INTO THE CASKET! Abyss is in agony and escapes the casket by tipping it over and the tacks cover his body even more. He's out so Taker rolls him into the ring. He calls for the Tombstone and stalks Abyss. TOMBSTONE ONTO THE TACKS! One…two…thr-lights out! They stay out for a little while and when they come back on Taker gets drilled from behind with a chair by Christopher Daniels! Chair shot to the skull and Taker is down! Daniels stands tall and tosses the chair aside. Boot to Taker, ANGELS WINGS ONTO THE TACKS! Abyss gets an arm across and the referee counts the 3 @ 9:40!

Winner: Abyss

Daniels helps Abyss up and they start putting the boots to Taker until Kane comes out. Daniels and Abyss leave before Kane gets in the ring. Kane helps Taker up… GOOZLE! Kane chokeslams Taker onto the tacks! The fans are stunned. Abyss and Daniels hit the ring and Daniels shakes hands with both men. They stand tall over a fallen Undertaker.

In the back, Kurt Angle walks. Elsewhere, T-Grish is with Chris Jericho. Jericho says he and Angle are 1-1 and tonight, he will settle it by beating Angle two straight falls. T-Grish asks about Team Angle and Jericho says not to worry because he has a plan. We cut back to Angle and he's with Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin now. They talk but we can't hear what they're saying.

2 Out of 3 Falls: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle w/ Team Angle

Lock up, go-behind by Jericho, waistlock takeover into a front face lock by Jericho. Angle brings it back up and fights out of it with forearms and hits Jericho with a European uppercut but runs into an arm drag by Jericho. Jericho gets another arm drag and then catches Kurt with a drop toehold. Jericho off the ropes and hits Angle with a low dropkick to the back of the head. Jericho goes for a cover and gets just 1. Angle picks the leg and takes Jericho down and shoves a forearm in his face. They fight to get on top and roll out of the ring where Angle drives Jericho into the guardrail. Angle slides in and Team Angle surround Jericho until the referee is out and forces them to back off. Jericho up on the apron now and comes over the top with a sunset flip, but Angle rolls through and goes for the ankle but Jericho is in the ropes. They stand off and lock up again, Angle with a go-behind this time, but Jericho blocks a German, misses a back elbow and gets caught with a Northern lights suplex with bridge for 2. Angle puts the boots to Jericho now and whips him into the corner hard. Angle sits Jericho up on the top rope and drills him with a right hand that sends him all the way to the floor. Angle distracts the referee allowing Team Angle to kick the crap out of Jericho on the floor and roll him back in. Angle pulls Jericho up and launches him with a belly-to-belly suplex. That gets him a 2 count. Body scissors applied now by Angle. He grabs a chinlock too and Jericho is worn down here. Jericho manages to get a foot on the bottom rope and Angle breaks the hold. Angle tries a German but Jericho lands on his feet and gets a roll-up for 2. Jericho ducks a clothesline and gets a crucifix roll up, which he turns into the Walls of Jericho! Angle is stretch for the rope and Shelton Benjamin pulls Angle to the ropes and the hold is broken. The referee sends Team Angle to the back! They protest but they are gone. Angle rolls to the apron and gets caught with a springboard dropkick that sends him to the floor. Jericho follows up with a springboard dive to the floor and takes out Angle. He rolls Kurt back in and goes to the top, but gets caught with a top-rope arm drag. Angle crawls across and gets 2. Angle stalks Jericho, but Y2J slips out of the Angle Slam and hits a bulldog. Lionsault misses but Jericho lands on his feet and hurts the ankle there. Angle Slam! Straps are down and the Ankle Lock is applied! Jericho counters into a roll-up and takes the first fall @ 10:08!

The second fall begins and Angle goes right for the ankle with kicks. He twists it around the ring rope and Jericho is hurting here. Angle goes to the floor and drills Jericho's leg against the steel ringpost. Back in and Angle drapes the leg across the rope and jumps down on it a couple of times. He goes for the ankle lock but Jericho kicks him away and crawls to the corner. Angle charges but eats an elbow. Jericho hops up to the second rope and hits a missile dropkick! He crawls across and makes a cover for 2. He goes for the Walls but Angle slugs him away and hits a German suplex! Hands are clasped and he hits a second, and a third! Still locked and there's a fourth! A fifth! Angle covers but Jericho kicks out at 2! Angle scoop slams Jericho now and goes up top for a moonsault. But Jericho recovers and goes up with him. Jericho tries a back suplex but Angle adjusts and lands on top of Jericho for 2! Angle up first and boots Jericho in the head. Angle goes back to the ankle now and he has the Ankle Lock locked in! Jericho fights but Angle pulls him back to the middle of the ring! Grapevine! Jericho taps and Angle levels it up @ 16:56!

The referee can't get Angle to break the hold here. Angle leaves it on for a long time before breaking and he gets in the referee's face. Angle goes back and locks the Ankle Lock in again, but Jericho rolls onto his back and kicks Angle into the referee and he's down. Low blow by Jericho! He goes up top and Team Angle are here. Charlie Haas has a chair and drills Jericho with it in the ankle! Jericho falls form the top and he's hurt. They put the boots to him now and it's 3 on 1. Some familiar music levels the playing field…



The APA are here! They hit the ring and Benjamin bails. Haas tries to attack and gets launched with a Fallaway Slam! Simmons gives chase to Benjamin around ringside and Benjamin gets wiped out with a Clothesline From Hell! Dayum! Haas nails Simmons from behind but the APA beat him all the way to the back and we're back to one-on-one but the damage is done to Jericho. Angle goes up top and nails the MOONSAULT! The referee recovers and counts, one…two...thr-NO! Jericho kicked out and Angle is pissed. Jericho up and they slug it out. They're exchanging right hands in the middle of the ring now but Jericho hits the CODEBREAKER out of nowhere! One…two…thr-NO! Now Jericho's stunned. Jericho tries and misses a Lionsault but lands on his feet and drills Angle with a step-up enzuigiri! LIONSAULT connects! It only gets 2 though! Walls of Jericho try, but Angle counters into a roll-up and has the ankle… ANKLE LOCK! Jericho fights but can't get to the ropes. Angle grapevines the leg and it must be over now, but Jericho won't tap. He manages to drag Angle closer to the rope but he can't get there. Jericho passes out and that gives Angle the 3rd fall @ 24:12!

Winner: Kurt Angle (2-1)

For those keeping score at home, TNA is now 3-0 up on the night. Angle celebrates like he just won another gold medal. Jericho gets help to be taken to the back.

In the back, Jeff Jarrett walks. Vince McMahon is here and JJ smiles, pointing out that TNA is 3-0 up. Vince says by the end of the night, they'll be even. Jarrett says they'll be anything but.

Sting with Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton

They lock up and go to the corner, break, and Orton cheap shots Sting. Sting comes back with jabs and Orton quickly bails to the floor. Sting pulls him back up onto the apron but Orton hangs him up on the top rope. Back in and Orton levels Sting with a European uppercut. Big knee drop now by Orton. Orton drives his forearm into the face of Sting and works him over. Orton wants the concussion kick early but Sting avoids it and hits Orton with a dropkick and clotheslines him to the floor. Sting follows him out and bounces his head off the ring steps. Orton blocks another try and drives Sting back-first into the ring apron. Sting comes back with rights and tosses Orton back in. Orton catches Sting coming back in and puts the boots to him. Orton whips Sting into the corner but Sting comes back out with a big clothesline. Sting goes for the Death Lock but Orton scurries to the ropes and to the floor. Sting gives chase but gets caught by a big right hand. Orton stomps away at Sting and pulls him up. Sting comes back and sends Orton into the steel steps now. They slug it out and Sting connects with a big right. RKO out of nowhere! Orton rolls back in and out again to break the count. He picks Sting up and tosses him back into the ring. Orton wants the kick now and Flair is on the apron. Orton misses the kick and Sting gets a low blow in! Both men down now and Flair is back off the apron. Vince McMahon is here and Flair backs him off. Sting has the Scorpion Death Lock locked in! Orton crawls and just gets the ropes. Orton rolls out and gets in Flair's face. Vince grabs Flair but Flair decks him! Sting out now and tosses Orton back. Orton tries a quick RKO but Sting shoves him away and hits the Death Drop! One…two…thr-NO! Vince pulled the referee out of the ring. Vince slugs the referee and Sting is out now and has Vince. Orton nails Sting from behind and tosses him back in. Sting comes back with rights and Flair slides the baseball bat into the ring. Orton gets sent to the corner and Sting nails the STINGER SPLASH! Sting bends down to grab the bat and the CONCUSSION KICK hits out of nowhere! Flair in now and he and Orton trade blows! Flair backs him into the corner with chops and Vince drills Flair with the bat! RKO on Flair! Vince waves out a new referee now. RKO on Sting! Orton covers and it's over @ 10:00!

Winner: Randy Orton

Vince instructs Orton to hit the kick on Flair now. Orton doesn't want to do it and backs off. Vince yells at him and Orton sets up to do it. Batista is here and Vince bails. Orton and Batista stare down and Orton backs off and leaves the ring. Batista helps Flair up.

Backstage, Miz and Morrison are with T-Grish. They say they will reinforce the statement that they made at Summerslam and be victorious here tonight. Elsewhere, the Motor City Machineguns are with Lauren. They think that they have the most to prove and they will do it here tonight. London and Kendrick are with Lena Yada. Tonight, they are in their element and not only will they pull back another victory for WWE, but they will show that they are the best tag team in the business. AMW are with Crystal. They are looking forward to tossing around some midgets tonight.

4-Way Ladder Match: The Miz and John Morrison vs. The Motor City Machineguns vs. America's Most Wanted vs. Paul London and Brian Kendrick

Suspended above the ring is a briefcase, if for no other reason than they're not actually fighting for titles, just pride. All 4 teams brawl to start. Kendrick gets tossed as does Harris. They both try to bring a ladder in but end up brawling on the floor. Miz and Morrison try bringing in the first ladder but MCMG baseball slide the ladder back into their faces. Stereo planchas now by the Guns! Sabin and Shelley hit a double thrust kick on Morrison that sends him all the way into the fans' laps. They toss a ladder in and throw Miz in after it. They have another ladder and they sandwich Miz between two ladders. Dropkicks to the ladders! Miz Flair-flops. Storm in and nails Sabin from behind and tosses him to the floor. Harris props up a ladder in the corner and AMW send Shelley crashing into it. London and Kendrick hit stereo missile dropkicks now and take out AMW! AMW roll out to the floor and Sabin takes them out with a dive from the top rope. London and Kendrick set up a ladder and climb, but Morrison is in and tips it, and LonDrick take out AMW and Sabin! Morrison goes up and Shelley scurries up to meet him. They slug it out and Miz nails Shelley from behind. Miz comes up behind Shelley, which forces him up the ladder electric chair style. He nails Morrison and sunset flips from Miz shoulders and takes out Morrison! Miz finds himself alone on the ladder and begins to climb. Miz has a hold of the briefcase, but London and Kendrick in now and they take the ladder out from underneath him! Kendrick sets a ladder up in the corner and climbs… SPINNING HEEL KICK FROM THE TOP ROPE takes out Miz in mid-air! Both men are dead. Sabin in now and he tosses London. Sabin goes up a ladder but Harris is in and goes up the other side. They brawl and Sabin tries to go up but Harris grabs him… CATATONIC FROM THE LADDER! Sabin is out. Storm goes up now and gets nailed from behind by Morrison with a tag title. Morrison drills him in the face with it again. Morrison climbs but Shelley stops him and pulls him down. Morrison hits Shelley with a neckbreaker. Morrison lays a ladder on the floor and slams Shelley onto it. SPLIT-LEGGED CORKSCREW MOONSAULT! Shelley moved and Morrison ate ladder! Shelley climbs and here's London to stop him. Harris has a ladder now and sets it up next to theirs and he climbs. Kendrick is alive and he goes up with Harris. Storm has a ladder now and he joins in the fray. Miz is up and he goes up with Storm. Chris Sabin is alive! He has a ladder and he climbs, and Morrison joins him! All eight men brawl now! Kendrick and Harris' ladder gets tipped and they land awkwardly on the top rope! Miz takes a shot from a swinging briefcase and he crashes and burns! Storm hits a super kick while on the ladder and takes out Sabin! Morrison and Shelley hit Storm with stereo kicks and he falls! Morrison and Shelley are on different ladders but on the same side now. Morrison boots Shelley in the mid-section and has him by the neck… MOONLIGHT DRIVE FROM THE LADDERS! London is alone on the ladder now and he climbs. Storm is up though and he has London by the leg. Miz goes up the other side and Sabin tries to stop him from the mat. Miz can't shake him off but Morrison pulls Sabin away from the floor, allowing Miz to climb. London shakes off Storm too late and Miz gets the briefcase @ 14:22!

Winners: The Miz and John Morrison

The fans applaud the effort of all eight men and TNA are now leading by just 3-2.

Backstage, Edge is getting taped up for his big match. Hawkins and Ryder ask what the plan is but Edge says there is none, because this one's personal. Vickie wishes him good luck. Edge walks out and bumps into Mr. McMahon in the corridor; "don't you dare lose one of my titles to TNA."

We get a video package highlighting Edge and Christian's time as a tag team, their initial split, their individual success, their reunion, and Edge turning on Cage at Summerslam and the events that followed.

World Heavyweight Championship Match: Edge vs. Christian Cage

Lock up and to the corner they go. We get a clean break and they lock up again. Cage is the first to go for a cheap shot and they slug it out now. Cage ducks a clothesline but gets caught with a knee from Edge that turns Cage inside out. Cage comes back with elbows and right hands and sends Edge to corner where Cage misses a splash. Edge rolls Cage up and gets 2. Cage ducks a clothesline again and hits a neckbreaker and gets 2. Edge rolls to the floor and Cage goes up top and takes Edge out with a crossbody! Back in and Cage gets a 2 count. Cage tries an Unprettier but Edge shoves him away and goes to the floor. Cage follows and they brawl. Edge gets the better of the exchange and rolls Cage in. Edge up top now and connects with a missile dropkick. That gets a 2 count. Both men up and Edge catches Cage in an abdominal stretch now. Edge uses the ropes for leverage when the ref isn't looking, but he eventually gets caught and Cage counters with a hip toss. Cage tries for the Unprettier again but Edge counters into the Edge O'Matic. That gets 2. Edge puts the boots to Cage now. Edge sets Cage up for the Edgecution but Cage spins out and hits a clothesline. Both men up and they slug it out. Edge goes to the eyes and that allows him to hit the Edgecution for a long 2 count. Edge is frustrated now and goes to the top. Cage meets him up there but Edge fights him off. Edge comes off the top but Cage rolls through a crossbody and gets a near fall. Edge up first though and boots Cage in the head. Edge wants the Spear now and he sets up for it, but Cage avoids it and Edge hits the turnbuckle. Christian connects with the Cage Rage (Inverted DDT) now and covers for 2. Cage goes up top but now Edge meets him up there. SUPERPLEX! That gets another near fall for Edge and he's pissed. Edge stalks Cage and he tries for the Unprettier, but Cage reverses and nails the UNPRETTIER! One…two…three! Cage wins! Oh, but Edge got a foot on the bottom rope. Cage pleads his case and can't believe it. Edge is up and tries for the Spear, Cage leap frogs over it and SPEAR ON EDGE! One…two…thr-NO! Edge kicked out! Cage up top now and misses a Frog Splash! Cage up, SPEAR ON CAGE! One…two…thr-NO! Both men up and Edge sends Cage to the corner but charges into a reverse elbow. Cage has Edge… TORNADO DDT! Cage up top… FROG SPLASH! One...two…thr-NO! Edge kicked out! Cage doesn't know what to do now. Hawkins and Ryder are out now and they're on the apron. Edge low blows Cage and goes to the floor. He's got the World Championship but Edge drills Cage with a low blow in return. TITLE TO THE SKULL! Cage has Edge covered but Hawkins and Ryder have the ref. Cage nails Hawkins now and Ryder, but Ryder grabs hold of Cage. Cage fights them off and turns around… SPEAR! One…two…thr-NO! Edge is bemused. Hawkins and Ryder tell him to do it again. SPEAR ON CAGE! That finally ends it at 16:55!

Winner: Edge

Edge celebrates with Hawkins and Ryder.

In the back, Vince finds Jeff Jarrett. Vince smiles and says "I told you so." JJ smiles back.

We get a video package of Jeff Hardy's title win and Triple H putting him on the shelf, as well as both men's road to the final of this tournament.

WWE Championship Match: Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam

Van Dam slides in and ducks a clothesline and hits a heel kick! He goes up top and The Game rolls to the floor. SENTON FROM THE TOP ROPE! Front face lock now, and RVD dumps on Trips across the guardrail. Van Dam up to the apron now… thumbs… "R… V…D!" Spinning leg drop from the apron! Back in and Van Dam hits a standing moonsault for 2. Triple H reverses a whip and tries for the Pedigree, but Van Dam back drops The Game to the floor! Plancha misses and Van Dam lands awkwardly on his back. The Game drives him back first into the ring steps! Back in now and Trips covers for 2. The Game pulls him up and hits a perfectly executed backbreaker. And another one. That gets a further 2 count. He sends Van Dam hard into the corner now. And again. Sidewalk slam now by Triple H gets 2. He yells at the referee to count faster. Triple H slams Van Dam now and connects with some well-placed elbows. The Game sits Van Dam up on the top rope and goes up there to meet him. He wants a superplex but RVD beats him down. DIVING THRUST KICK by RVD! Van Dam tries for Rolling Thunder but the Game catches him mid-roll and hits a snap powerslam! That gets a 2 count and The Game again tells the referee to count faster. He gets right in his face. Van Dam catches The Game with a kick in the corner and nails the windmill kick. SPLIT-LEGGED MOONSAULT! That gets Van Dam a near fall. ROLLING THUNDER! 2 more for Van Dam. Van Dam heads up top but The Game shoves the referee into the ropes and Van Dam slips. The Game goes up top now… SUPERPLEX! Another near fall for Triple H. Triple H is pissed and goes out to get a chair. He tells RVD he will cripple him like he crippled Jeff Hardy. VAN DAMINATOR! One…two…thr-NO! Van Dam up top… Five Star Frog Splash misses! Pedigree try, but Van Dam counters and catapults The Game right into the referee! LOW BLOW TO VAN DAM! PEDIGREE! Triple H tries to revive the referee but Jeff Hardy is here! He KILLS The Game with a chair shot! And another! SWANTON BOMB! Hardy peels his shirt off and the crowd is going nuts. He throws RVD on top of Triple H and bails. The referee is slow to recover… one…two…thr-NO! The ref stopped counting! Oh, foot on the rope! RVD rolls off and uses the ropes to pull himself up. He pulls The Game to the middle of the ring and goes up top… FIVE STAR FROG SPLASH! One…two…thr-NO! The referee was pulled from the ring by Jeff Jarrett! Jarrett nails the referee! JJ in and he has his guitar. Van Dam meets him with forearms but Robert Roode nails Van Dam from behind with the TNA World Championship! Roode holds RVD up… GUITAR SHOT! Van Dam is out of it. JJ and Roode help The Game up. JJ waves someone from the back and referee Charles Robinson is out. PEDIGREE ON RVD! Robinson counts and that's it @ 14:12!

Winner: And NEW WWE Champion, Triple H

JJ tears Robinson' referee shirt to reveal a TNA one! Robinson hands the WWE Championship to The Game and JJ and Roode raise the hands of the new champion! Vince McMahon is out at the top of the ramp now and they mock him. Jarrett holds up 4 fingers on one hand, and three on the other: 4-3! Triple H tells Vince to suck it as the show goes off the air.

And we're done! I know I promised No Surrender this week, but again, exams are kicking my ass right now.

So, next week, the war continues with TNA's No Surrender, and the fall out to Triple H's defection. Plus, I countdown the 50 Greatest Matches of my Fandom (1998-2008). That should be a fun (and long) effort.

Music fans, head over to the Music Zone and catch my Great Rock News Report.

Until then, if I don't see you before next week, see you next week!


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Comments (164)

 
This list is full of more bullshit than a farm.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:19 AM

 
 
So Triple H's "greatest matches" consist of half of the matches he's had on pay-per-view in the past decade?

And please, stop it with the WWE/TNA fanfiction. You're better than that. I keep expecting to read your column and stumble upon a Cena/Sting slash story.


Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:29 AM

 
 
Terrible list.Just terrible.Terrible.I may hate triple H but i'm not going to deny he's great but greatest?I can't say he is.

Posted By: Ed (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:20 AM

 
 
this list is good. although it's all subjective i knew hhh would be no. 1 and i cant help but agree. i'd still put rock over cena but the rest was good enough.

Posted By: amusing comments (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:26 AM

 
 
HHH has to be number one agree with that over the last 10 years. But wheres some Booker T? He may have not been that great but WCW was leaning on him in their last days. Most decorated WCW wrestler in there history.
And thank you for not having Goldberg on this list.


Posted By: kinaj (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:06 AM

 
 
The Phrase What a load of horseshit comes to mind

Posted By: K Web (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:07 AM

 
 
Batista!/!? FUCKING BATISTA on the the list and Jeff *Drugs R Us* Hardy... my god man, did you actually watch a match between that period of time? Both of those idiots are botchmonkeys and terrible on the mic...

No Dean Malenko, or if i wanted to be a smart-ass La Parka and Norman Smiley are better than Hardy/Batista.

That list could get you killed in a lot of countries...


Posted By: Brad (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:09 AM

 
 
It seems like a very good list, the onlyone i'm not in agreement with is the inclusion of batista. He's only wrestled for 4 years (taking away the injury time) and in those 4 years he didn't have any blowaway matches. He some good ones, even some great ones but none that could be considered legendary. (The WMXX Handicap match doesn't count)

Posted By: Guest#6926 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:25 AM

 
 
You mean "most significant" wrestlers or something like it. I know it's nit-picking to a degree, but I can't take a "Top 25 wrestlers" lsit seriously when Vince is at 9.

He isn't a wrestler.


Posted By: VKM (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 07:04 AM

 
 
I am not even going to touch on how very, very off your rankings are.

Though, half the matches listed as HHH's best are really sub-par at best. It looks like you went through the PPV archive and selected everything over **1/2 stars.

- HHH's 5 Best (singles) -
1. HHH v. Austin (3 stages of Hell)
2. HHH v. Foley (Street Fight)
3. HHH v. Jericho (Last Man Standing)
4. HHH v. Rock (Iron Man)
5. HHH v. Foley (Hell in the Cell)


Posted By: Ted (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 07:06 AM

 
 
Agreed. Awful list.

Posted By: KoP (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 08:57 AM

 
 
Someone's a WWE mark

Posted By: Tapp (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:23 AM

 
 
No.

Just no sorry.


Posted By: Guest#2392 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 10:41 AM

 
 
My thoughts on the list...

25. Ric Flair -
Still capable of great matches while well past his peak
24. The Big Show - Often oversized, capable of good matches when in decent shape
23. Samoa Joe - Pure class but not active for the whole period
22. Christian Cage - Excellent wrestler and a great pure heel
21. The Dudley Boyz/Team 3D - Great charisma, great garbage match style. Often a bit pedestrian without the hardware
20. Lita - Sloppy as hell and always in danger of injuring herself. Wouldn't even make my top 200.
19. Jeff Hardy - Spotmonkey supreme. Part of some of the greatest visual spectacles of recent times.
18. AJ Styles - Mixes athleticism and solid psych. Great wrestler.
17. Batista - Your prototypical big man. If you like that sort of thing he's about the best around.
16. Rob Van Dam - Spotmonkey again. Not that there's anything wrong with that in my book.
15. Eddie Guerrero - Consider who's above him WAY too low. Huge charisma and faultless in ring work.
14. Randy Orton - And who doesn't love a good chinlock? Great heel charisma, boring style.
13. Trish Stratus - Plus points for being pretty, right? Solid grasp of what it takes to put a match together, but a botch magnet.
12. Rey Mysterio Jr. - Wouldn't have won the world title if Eddy was still alive (sorry Rey). Fantastic wrestler, though most of his greatest stuff is out of the time period (i.e. before the knee injuries)
11. Chris Jericho - Massive charisma, beautiful wrestling.


Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:32 AM

 
 
THE TOP TEN
Mick Foley - One of the greatest sellers I have ever seen. Makes anyone he faces look good. Apparently they use his epics with HHH as training vids for the kiddies.
Vince Fucking McMahon - A wrestler with the book tends to build an enitre fed around himself. A booker in the wrestling ring makes himself look artificially good by setting himself up right. Vince's match with Flair was genius, but then who HASN'T had a good match with Flair?
Kurt Angle - One of the best natural talents to enter the ring. As a five year vet he was as good as most people can hope to achieve in 15 years. And he can promo too!
Undertaker - Already past his best in the time period (his 97 series against Vader, Mick and Shawn is easily his best work IMHO) Nowadays his appearances give you chills with the entrance. Then they send you to sleep.
Shawn Michaels - In the 90s he was as good as Flair was in the 80s. In the noughties, was he as good as Flair in the 90s? Yup. Good enough to carry anyone.
Edge - One of the few main event stars the WWE has made recently. Having him this far above Christian is unfair on Captain Charisma mind.
The Rock - If you poured charisma into a human shaped mould, you would get The Rock. The best promo man in the business (when he wasn't phoning it in) and a great wrestler.
John Cena - He can sell with the best. He can cut promos that get the entire crowd into matches. He can have watchable matches with some normally intolerable stiffs. His moveset is awful, but the crowd love it. He can throw a good punch. He is Jerry Lawler, Dusty Rhodes and Hogan. Before you judge him, say to yourself "That wasn't a bad match he had with Khali" and start racking your brains for anyone else who could make Khali watchable.
Steve Austin - Since Austin changed his style to protect his neck, every other main eventer in Vinnyland started wrestling like him. His great series of matches against the Rock and Trips, his awesome promos... I'd make a case for Austin at #1 merely through his influence on the industry.
HHH - A lot of the wrestlers here took a couple of years off in the time period. Trips took a couple of years off from being good. HHH at 250ish is one of, if not THE best wrestlers in North America. HHH at 275 was pedestrian slow and annoyed everyone through one sided fueds with a range of burying fodder. At his best, the best. You can argue his consistency should place him lower.


Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:41 AM

 
 
VKM - The list isn't judge on in-ring ability; it's about their contribution the quality of the product. Apologies for the confusion.

Ted - It's only my opinon, but of the list I made, there's maybe one or two matches I would rank as less than ****.

BlueMeanieUK - Thanks for the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and your thoughts; they are greatly appreciated.

Everyone else, thanks for your comments.


Posted By: Daniel Wilcox (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:55 AM

 
 
Awful list, awful article, you come across as nothing more than a generic hack WWE mark douchebag.

Posted By: KB (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:20 PM

 
 
Where's Benoit?

Posted By: Guest#8806 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:26 PM

 
 
glaring omissions:
jeff jarrett-if you include aj styles and vince. at least include the man who started his own promotion!!!

sting-1998 to 2001, ssting was HUGE!!! now he is a legend who is willing to put over younger talent.

chris benoit-in ring ONLY.

hulk hogan-wrestlemania 18, that is all that needs to be said.

cm punk-became a household name on the indy circuit.

also goldberg.


Posted By: jd (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:31 PM

 
 
Possibly the worst article ever posted on 411!!!!!!!!!

Lita in the top 25 over Cage/Joe is the biggest pile of crap iv ever heard!!!!

And i HATE TNA!


Posted By: steve0 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:45 PM

 
 
It's called the 'Top 25 Wrestlers', not the 'Top 25 Wrestlers Who Didn't Kill Their Families Like That Cold-Blooded Killer Benoit Who Definitely Wasn't Brain-damaged'. Excluding him from the list was an absolute travesty. If people are offended by the inclusion, that's their problem. Most people were (wrongly) offended anyway by the fact that they thought the list was crap.

Posted By: T.G. Corke (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:46 PM

 
 
I love what BlueMeanieUK did. He commented on the choices and not once did he call Daniel a name or call his list a name. This shows that somewhere on the net there are mature people. Sadly, as proof by most of these replies, there are alot more annoying pricks who just moan and complain and call the writer of the article names.

Posted By: WTF (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:48 PM

 
 
Dude your list sucks major D's

Posted By: Guest#3740 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:48 PM

 
 
HHH is the best and its about the iwc shows him some love

Posted By: Guest#6907 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:48 PM

 
 
Why is Cena ranked so high? He isn't nearly as signifcant or as big of a star as you may think. The Rock did far more than him, and yes, when a wrestler is so bad that they get the crowd riled up, it IS a bad thing. God, you're such a mark.

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 12:52 PM

 
 
Jeff Hardy above Christian Cage, Ric Flair, Big Show and Joe? WTF?

Posted By: Csonkaholic. (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:01 PM

 
 
Switch McMahon for Guerrero (it is a top WRESTLERS list first, and McMahon, as great as a seller and personality he is, couldn't do a Small Package to save his life.

If you would that, you hit the list right on target.


Posted By: JA Toro (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:03 PM

 
 
The only list that Lita should ever be ranked ahead of Ric Flair on, is some kind of list that rates the biggest whores in wrestling.

I'm sorry, I just didn't get how you could not include Kane....yet you could include Lita?!?!?!


Posted By: Dustin James (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:10 PM

 
 
I assume this reviewer doesn't watch japanese wrestling or indies. Because I can name at least 15 men and women who deserve to be on this list more than anyone already on the list.

Posted By: TyrannosaurusELPS (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:12 PM

 
 
"The only list that Lita should ever be ranked ahead of Ric Flair on, is some
kind of list that rates the biggest whores in wrestling."

Sorry, Lita is a whore (especially for the luchas) but there's no fucking way she's a bigger whore than Flair. Not from the stories I've heard of that coos-hound...


Posted By: MP (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:24 PM

 
 
Don't know why poeple are ripping on Lita so much when she was with the Hardy Boyz she was one of the most over wrestlers on the roster.

Posted By: Tony Dorian (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:27 PM

 
 
Wow dude! Excellent stuff again! Daniels shows up, great match b/w angle and jericho, the ladder match, and Triple H defects! This war has to go all the way to Wrestlemania!

Posted By: Faisal (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:31 PM

 
 
Brock Lesnar should be on this list. His few years on top were some of the best for main event in ring action.

Posted By: Tony Dorian (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:33 PM

 
 
"Note: Chris Benoit was not considered for this list due to the fact that I don't want anyone to be offended"

Pussy.
If Cal Ripken killed his family did he not still play 2,632 games in a row or do they pretend it never happened?

Bottom line is without Chris Benoit then this is not a valid list.


Posted By: Kevin (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:33 PM

 
 
To those who commented on how horrible this list is, take into account it's "his" opinion. Perhaps one of you makes a thread in the 411 forum and show us what you got.

Posted By: Jcjames (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:41 PM

 
 
yeah, benoit should probably be on there if you going for contributions to the business in the past ten years. danielson too.

Posted By: db (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:42 PM

 
 
How can the One Night Stand match be one of HHH's greatest when it didn't even have a proper ending??It was cut short.

Posted By: BuDDyLighT021 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:45 PM

 
 
The Cena love you have makes this along with many of your other columns unreadable and not credible.

Sorry


Posted By: Kevin (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:45 PM

 
 
Get the fuck outta here. This is the worst list I have ever seen. HHH? I mean are you serious??? What is this? a WWE booking meeting where they try to convince us how great HHH is when anyone with two eyes knows that he's not?? WORST COLUMN EVER!!!

Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:51 PM

 
 
For those who think there aren't enough non US, non WWE stars on the list...

Taking into account wrestling ability, drawing power and contribution to the wrestling world as a whole, which non Big Two stars can you make a good case for?

Ones that come to my mind...

TenKoji - A series of great tag team matches, then Kojima joins the All Japan revolution and wins the Triple Crown, Tenzan wins the IWGP title and they have a great match to unify the two (four?) biggest belts in Japan. Kojima has a MOTYC with Joe in ROH. and the pair are now solid main event stars.

KENTAFuji - Indy main eventers anywhere they go in the States, both Marafuji and KENTA have put on a series of snowflake grabbers anywhere they've been. Grabbing the GHC title in NOAH has solidified him as one of the big names in Japan.

Ricky Banderas/Muerte Cibernitca/Assesor Cibernetica/El Mesias/Judas Mesias - All of those gimmicks have main evented in one of their respective country's Big Two. Decent little run in TNA, Enormous in Mexico and Puerto Rico.

Amazingly Awesome Kong - Main eventer in Japan, combining two two things Japanese fans love in a joshi heel - being a big scary gaijin and being a big scary woman in general. Huge draw on the indy scene and plowing a decent furrow in TNA. In the ring she always looks like she's about to injure the opponent, which is better than Lita who might actually have done it.

Toshiaki Kawada - I want and need a KICK YOUR FACE T-shirt. If he'd left All Japan with the rest of the native roster it may well have folded. As a freelancer he has delivered quality and asses on seats all over Japan from his war against Misawa in NOAH to his flirting with the lunacy that is Hustle.

Jack Evans - The guy you show to WWE & TNA fans to persuade them to watch more indy shows. Flies like few others, whille being more technically competent than most other indy spotmonkeys (i.e. he doesn't botch 3/4 of what he goes for). A star in Dragon Gate in Japan and all across the US from PWG in the west to JAPW in the east.

Bryan Danielson - The #1 star in the US indies, period. Fantastic technical wrestler, great heel and has had success in Japan. Sadly no longer looks like a Greek philosopher.

I can't quite make a case for MechaMummy. But everyone loves MechaMummy.


Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 01:59 PM

 
 
Lita definitely deserves a spot on the list. At her peak she was insanely over both as a face and a heel. If anyone should drop off the list its Randy Orton who doesn't warrant a place on either talent or overness. Goldberg was infinitely more over for example.

Posted By: Sabre (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:10 PM

 
 
I understand this is supposed to be a joke list, but it's quite honestly too stupid even for that.

Posted By: a Fan (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:15 PM

 
 
this shit sucks.wheres sabu?

Posted By: mumbo jumbo (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:19 PM

 
 
I liked the list. Apparently there is another steveo on this site, who seems to be a douchebag.

so from now on...you can call me the dude.

You should have Larry review your shows and do the 4 r's.

Also,
Sting vs HBK
Sting vs The Undertaker

the list was good.

-the good steveo ie..the dude.


Posted By: steveo (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:21 PM

 
 
Yeah, HHH deserves to be #1 (at least for the last 10 years)
and... really, the last 10 years or so IS the WWE... nevermind ROH or TNA or WCW. WCW was only around for... what, 3.25 of the last 10 years? TNA & ROH are both more "up and coming" than anything else, it has to be mostly WWE centric... and if that's how you're doing it-- you have to go with HHH. Hands down.

note that his list, also isn't "best technical wrestlers" I think it's more "best performers in the field of wrestling" kind of thing... you purists are just going to have to go back to your mom's basements and cry LOL


Posted By: Damn Good (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:23 PM

 
 
I thought the list was pretty damn perfect. And for a bonus, you've pissed off the whiny workrate geeks. Good stuff, Wilcox.

Posted By: Chopper (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:40 PM

 
 
trish stratus is better than eddie guerrero???? Really??? Lita is better than Christian Cage??? Really???? CENA OVER THE ROCK, THE UNDERTAKER, SHAWN MICHAELS, KURT ANGLE, EDGE AND MICK FOLEY????????? REALLY??????? DID YOU JUST WRITE DOWN THE FIRST 25 NAMES THAT CAME TO MIND IN NO ORDER AND SAID THIS IS THE LIST????? YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WRESTLING AND YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR WRITING PRIVLEDGES REVOKED IMMEDIATELY FROM THIS SITE.

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:54 PM

 
 
THIS LIST BLOWSSS

Posted By: Guest#3353 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 02:54 PM

 
 
Good list and good work compiling it. I enjoyed it and you were very transparent as to why you liked a said worker.

Good job!


Posted By: thegunisgood (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:01 PM

 
 
Just because Benoit murdered his family & killed himself doesn't take away from the fact that he was quite possibly the single greatest professional wrestler of all-time. I can understand why you left him out, but am more peeved that you didn't include him, murders or not.

And um, Vince McMahon???


Posted By: Mr. Mountain (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:07 PM

 
 
This seriously is the worst column i have ever read on this site. HHH??? off the top of my head, these guys are undoubtedly ALL AROUND BETTER: Austin, Angle, Hogan, Rock, Flair, and HBK.

Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:14 PM

 
 
What a bunch of crap! Flair # 25 and Cena # 3. If you made this list just to see how many responses you could get of people telling you that you're a moron....then well done.

Posted By: star (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:17 PM

 
 
And in regards to HHH, you have to take into account the men with whom he's worked. His "prime" years of late '99- mid '01 were filled with tremendous workers and storytellers like Austin, Rock, Benoit, Jericho, Angle et al. And since '02, he's been able to put on some pretty good matches, but it has taken guys like Angle and Michaels since then to get great matches from HHH. He's a product of being a top guy who great matches with superior workers.

Ask yourself this: Would HHH have had so many "great" matches if he were working with guys like Bossman, Steve Blackman, Rikishi, Billy Gunn and so forth? I think the answer would be a resounding "No."


Posted By: Mr. Mountain (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:22 PM

 
 
Please fire this guy already. I don't know how many times I have to post it. Approve this comment too. Last time it didn't get through. By far the worst writer on the site.

Posted By: Seriously. (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:31 PM

 
 
Any list that has Mick Foley listed in the top 10 in anything other than being a stunt man is immediately deemed a joke by me. Foley is overrated...a glorified stuntman. And Samoa Joe definetly not be on a list based on the last 10 years, he's made no significant impact on this business at all the ranks his as top 25 and above of Ric Flair?!! are you an idiot??

Posted By: toriano (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:32 PM

 
 
You know, there's a similar epidemic of dogging on someone's "list" of personal favorites on Yahoo! Music columnist Rob O'Connor's blog. So if I may make a point...

They're HIS personal preferences, based on what he had access to and what his tastes were since he started watching wrestling! How does expressing a preference make him full of shit? Most lists aren't meant to be definitive and come from each individual's standards. Austin wasn't ranked at the top probably in part because he HAD to tone his ring style down in the later years of his career because of his neck/knees. Cena was placed pretty high because he connected with fans at a time when making that connection was tough to do. There's plenty of standards for giving anyone credit where it's due.

I'll grant this, though: yeah, enough with the fantasy booking. Just....no.


Posted By: Sean (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:46 PM

 
 
Mr. Mountain, how many guys have gotten great matches out of Bossman, Steve Blackman, Rikishi, Billy Gunn? It tends to take two to make a great match, and HHH has had a bundle of them in the past ten years.

And again, despite the pathetic bitching from a bunch of frustrated douchebags, this was a good column and solid list. My only change would be to have Vince higher on the list, since he is truly the best heel of all time.


Posted By: Chopper (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 03:58 PM

 
 
Any list of top wrestlers that does not include Bryan Danielson I skip over asap.

Posted By: kwjr86 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:06 PM

 
 
Hey, I didn't agree, but its your list. Don't listen to all these idiots. Like what you like...there needs to be more of that on the 411.

Here is my list:

Most Signficant Wrestlers
(1998-2008)

I don't have time to rank them, so they are in alphabetical order:

1.) Kurt Angle
2.) Steve Austin
3.) Batista
4.) Booker T
5.) John Cena
6.) The Dudley Boyz
7.) Edge (with an assist to Christian)
8.) Mick Foley
9.) Eddie Guerrero
10.) Matt & Jeff Hardy
11.) Hulk Hogan
12.) Jeff Jarrett
13.) Chris Jericho
14.) Brock Lesner
15.) Shawn Michaels
16.) Rey Mysterio jr.
17.) Outsiders / NWO
18.) The Rock
19.) Samoa Joe
20.) Sting
21.) AJ Styles
22.) The Big Show
23.) Triple H
24.) The Undertaker
25.) Rob Van Dam

A special mention goes to Vince McMahon who I didn't count as a wrestler, but had as much impact as anyone else.

and I did not include Benoit just to piss people off.


Posted By: cpbasil (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:25 PM

 
 
Beyond preposterous.

Putting HHH above Rock and Austin is just trolling.

I fail to see how a guy who needed #10, #4, and #2 on your list to put him over repeatedly just to get over is somehow the greatest of the last decade.

He's like the Brett Favre of Pro Wrestling. He sticks around long enough that everyone forgets about his multitude of deficiencies.


Posted By: Rob Conway (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:28 PM

 
 
Wow...
You put Vince on your list of the "Top 25 Wrestlers"... You use the term "wrestler" loosely don't you? Not to mention your list is very pro-WWE... I smell some bias...


Posted By: Travis (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:31 PM

 
 
Not bad at all...
I'd move McMahon and 'Taker up and Cena and Edge down a little. I would put HHH 3rd, based on THE most important factor-butts in seats. Rock and Austin certainly are the top 2 based on that.


Posted By: meaguy (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:31 PM

 
 
Just for discussion...

If I had to make a current TOP 10 WRESTLERS based on wrestling it would look like this


10. Naomichi Marufuji
9. KENTA
8. Samoa Joe
7. Nigel McGuinness
6. CM Punk
5. Chris Jericho
4. Edge
3. Shawn Michaels
2. AJ Styles
1. Bryan Danielson


Posted By: Kevin (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:37 PM

 
 
cool to see Lita on the list, though i personally think she should be higher than trish.

Posted By: Litas Biggest Fan (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:46 PM

 
 
Well i'll be damned. Someone recognize the man talents. I'm sure you will get a lot of have mail but you sir have very big balls and fuck all the triple h haters because they will never give the man his due. He didn't leave the company behind to make sorry ass movies. He didn't take his ball and run like austin did. He's never been caught cheating the system and taking illegal drugs like so many others. He has in fact put lots of talent over and it's up to them on how to handle the situation. I don't want to be seen as sucking on your dick but it took some grapefruits to choose the guy and i commend you for that.

Posted By: Guest#9078 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 04:58 PM

 
 
01-Triple H
02-HBK
03-The Rock
04-Chis Benoit
05-Steve Austin
06-Undertaker
07-Y2J
08-Edge
09-Kurt Angle
10-Randy Orton
11-Batista
12-Eddie
13-RVD
14-John Cena
15-Mic Foley


Posted By: sid (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:12 PM

 
 
The following is IMO:

Where's Benoit?

"If you're offended by the lack of Benoit in this list, sort your priorities out."

Sort ur priorities out??? What does that mean? So He's a jerk & other vulgar words I won't use... That means he wasn't good at his job? Who cares what anyone thinks bottomline is he may have sucked as a human being but he was a GREAT wrestler. We're talking about wrestling not his personal life!! My priorities r straight because I'm in a discussion about the top 25 wrestlers of the past 10 years not the top 25 best wrestlers on their best behavior & If that's the case than y is Austin 3:16 says I just beat my wife, Jeff I do recreational drugs Hardy, Randy not such a nice guy & I'll admit it Orton, & Rob I love smokin' pot Van Dam on this list! This isn't me being a jerk this is stuff we know... Orton, Jeff, Austin, & RVD have admitted their problems or through the media (or court) had it come 2 the surface... So it's not like I'm putting a spin on it! Point is everyone has problems but it doesn't change their professional lives! I'm not offended by his lack of presence on the list... I'm offended by u telling folks to sort their priorities out!

Skipping over the Benoit stuff I can't say I even remotely agree with the rest of the list either but It's ur opinion & I respect it becuase my priorities r straighter than a ruler! How about urs?

PEACE!


Posted By: THE BOMB! (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:13 PM

 
 
I wrote a large rant about how Benoit should be on this list and how much respect i lose for you because of it but then i read TG Corke's post and i can't say it better than he did.

Oh and i'm no Cena hater, i actually kinda like the guy but seriously bud there is no way he should be that high, same for Trips.


Posted By: stronelis (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:15 PM

 
 
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You've got a bunch who are bitching because the list is "WWE-centric" but if you'd included Puro or Lucha then a whole other bunch would've bitched about all the "no names" on the list.

I dont agree with some of your picks but then that's why these things are always completely subjective, a fact most morons who've posted seem to miss.

I do agree that HHH should top the list and love how everyone ignores your rationale in favour of jumping on the HHHate bandwagon. Seriously, didn't that go out of fashion years ago?


Posted By: Dr Domino (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:15 PM

 
 
I will give you that the Game helped out with Hardy, Batista and Cena, but I will not let you add Ortons name to that list. I don't think H's has done Orton any good at all. The only wins Orton has over the game are in matches where Triple H was not pinned or did not have to be pinned to lose. Can someone tell me one time in a major important Match that Orton was allowed to pin the H's?
Also curious as to if you got my email last week regarding an idea for Hurricane and Super Eric.


Posted By: Toddo (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:19 PM

 
 
Thanks for not trying to be "cool", and having Cena on your list.

Posted By: Capt. Smooth (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:39 PM

 
 
Can you add star ratings to the matches

Posted By: Mike (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:41 PM

 
 
pretty good list, apart from triple h and seriously why the hell is the LMS from One Night Stand on Trips greatest matches!

Posted By: jim (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:46 PM

 
 
I am one person that favours the idea of not letting Benoit in the list, i can understand why people want him in the list, but for me his actions erase any good he did in wrestling,

ps Austin should have been number 1 and despite how many people say he was'nt the greatest in the ring, buy the Stone Cold legacy DVD to see how good he really was!!!


Posted By: lobeylobes (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:47 PM

 
 
No one in this time frame has a resume like Kurt Angle in terms of quality wrestling matches. Kurt was in large part what made good wrestling matches cool again, through his series with Benoit and later Lesnar. Incredible athlete. Definitely more accurately placed at number 3.

The Rock definitely needs to rank higher. What he achieved in such a short time frame was phenominal. I don't know if there was a better wrestler than playing either the face in peril or the jerk heel. In any era, except this one, he would be number #1 (actually...maybe he is)

None of the success in this era comes without Steve Austin. He's your number one guy.

Triple H is easily number 4 given the length of his dominance and his performance in the early part of this era.

The Undertaker rounds out the top five for not only staying over despite changing gimmicks, but also evolving as a wrestler to remain relevant.

Mic Foley, Shawn Michaels, Edge, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit round out my top 10.


Posted By: BH (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:58 PM

 
 
The fact that you but about half that list over Ric Flair is WRONG, just WRONG!

Posted By: natedoggcata (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 05:59 PM

 
 
Triple H at number 1. Sure he's put on some great matches with a variety of opponents, but if there's one wrestler is responsible for how poor wrestling is to watch right now surely its Trips and his huge ego that says he has to be in all the main events and do twenty minute long promos at the start of every edition of Raw. And for that reason he definitely doesn't deserve to be number 1 due to his negative contribution behind the scenes.

Posted By: Hornet (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:04 PM

 
 
I honestly have no problem with that list. The biggest omission to me is actually Shane McMahon. I think he is just as good as Vince. Maybe Kane somewhere too. But other than that GREAT job.

Also, I'm really liking this WWE/TNA storyline you're doing, and I'm not a big fan of fantasy booking.


Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:29 PM

 
 
No Benoit? Your choice, but you picked 'Top 25 Wrestlers' not 'Top 25 People.' Opinion being that personal bias shouldn't affect their position on a Top Wrestler list

Other than that, well, I wanted to have a major argument but I can't think of anyone else. Maybe Brock Lesnar, as his reign was short but certainly worthy of inclusion. And although Chyna has become a joke now, her reign was historical enough to at least allow an honourable mention.

Not sure about Foley at No.10. He 'retired' in 2000, only came back briefly after that. For a 10 year group where he was only active for a 3-4 of those years.....hard to agree.

And, really, Jeff Jarrett should have at least have a place on this list.

Wait, no Booker T???

Hehe, this is rambling. Basically aye, decent list. You covered alot of the major players which is harder to do than people think.


Posted By: mr_wishart (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:36 PM

 
 
my list is the best..benoit was the legend of legends..better technical wrestler than bret hart..more intense than anyone ever..and he was a rapid wolverine..he was just as intense as stone cold steve austin in the ring..n if he did not die..he would have been wwe champion more than cena atleast..according to me in that list cena is the most over rated wrestler in wwe history..the guy has been pushed..he doesnt work hard in the ring..he never sweat in the ring..and i believe triple h deserves to be above # 1 not because i like the guy..but because he has made wwe what it is today..triple h deserves more world titles than 12..and he deserves more credit than he gets..it doesnt matter if he fu... the boss's daughter..the fact of the matter is that he waas always exceptional..before his wwe title runs he was a certain guy to be one of the best..

Posted By: sid (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:36 PM

 
 
Saw alot of pro-Sting sentiment on the comments. My thoughts: Possibly, but his best work was before June 1998. Much like Foley, hence my surprise he made Top 10...

Posted By: mr_wishart (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:40 PM

 
 
List sucks ass. Booking kicks ass

Posted By: doob (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:40 PM

 
 
Triple h is the worst performer over the past 10 years in my mind, i hate him, especially as a face

Posted By: Guest#5787 (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 06:44 PM

 
 
Hey Wilcock,

I'm sure you fancy yourself above reading the posts where 9 out of every 10 are completely DISAGREE with your bullshit list, but you have a responsibility to put out a better product. The fact that you have Cripple H at the top of this list is fucking appalling.


Posted By: thechriseco (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 07:28 PM

 
 
my major question is why isn't chris jericho higher. I think jericho is overlooked for his accomplishments in the last decade. the fued with benoit, the rock, HHH, Kurt Angle and stephanie mcmahon were all extremely enjoyable. and he was the first undisputed champion for goodness sakes.

Posted By: Bowserwasframed (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 07:36 PM

 
 
You people who buy into this Triple H bullshit are all stupid. The guy is good, but not even close to the same planet as Hogan, and Austin, then Rock and Angle to a lesser degree Flair, and even his buddy HBK. The bottom line on this guy is he is overrated and has done more harm to the business than good. At least enough of you seem to realize this.

Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 07:43 PM

 
 
Sorry Dan for the cynicism -- I just don't see how all of the HHH matches listed could be considered him at his best. To be fair, many of these are good->great matches, but there are some listed are certainly not his best work. IMO, these are barely *** (or worse):

- HHH v. HBK (Last Man Standing) was slowly paced, often awkward, and lacking real psychology (let alone a real ending). They needed Benoit to shake things up.
- Elimination Chamber 2002 was OK, but HHH didn't contribute too much to its success. However, its also looooong and doesn't hold up well to repeated viewings.
- HHH v. Flair (Last Man Standing) is difficult to watch as its so very clear that HHH is carrying Flair in making the match seem real. Bloodshed does not make the match great.
- His HitC against Nash is mediocre (and all Foley), the HitC v. HBK is seriously much too long. The ending is also rather anticlimactic. For a match that started strong, it sure went sour fast.
- HHH v. UT (WM X-7) is a meandering brawl, and not a very good one. It is redeemed some by the huge crowd and a hot finish.
- The same can be said about HHH v. Cena (WM 22) - the crowd makes the match.
- Lastly, HHH v. Orton (One Night Stand) has no business being included. The match was building alright, but had nothing pre-injury that makes is great, especially compared to their earlier LMS.

Basically, it’s incomplete. Judged solely on the wrestling, it is nothing spectacular. Had Orton not been injured and the matched finished in the same manner, it wouldn’t have broken **1/2.
While I agree that HHH is the #1 wrestler of the past decade (Angle and Benoit are close behind) – I believe you could have whittled down your list from 28.


Posted By: Ted (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 08:17 PM

 
 
HUNTER HEARST HELMSLEY R U KIDDIN ME???? CENA OVA TAKER??? WTF WHO DID THIS CRAB

Posted By: KING (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 08:35 PM

 
 
KB said it best, Daniel Wilcox is indeed a "generic hack WWE mark douchebag"

Posted By: Big Punisher (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 08:47 PM

 
 
Daniel:

Good stuff as always.

Don't personally agree with ALL your picks on the list (Lita?), but overall it's a very good list that is fairly accurate. And I respect you for trying to avoid offending people by ommitting Chris Benoit, even if you ended up offending everyone anyway.

Good stuff with the TNA-WWE stuff, very good booking and fun matches. PLEASE continue!


Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 08:48 PM

 
 
Great column, Dan, except for the annoying white and blue alternating part at the bottom. That's some horrible writing and you really consider eliminating it from your column.

Posted By: Andy Clark (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:00 PM

 
 
Fuckin' VINCE MCMAHON? How can you possibly expect me to take this seriously? I know it's just a made-up list, but...well good try anyway. It's like a diary entry or some shit.

Posted By: The REAL MP (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:09 PM

 
 
If I may.....

These are HIS opinions from 1998-2008. Think about it.

Flair has not had that many great matches other than the most recent with Michaels at Wrestlemania.

Others on this list may not be the best wrestler match-wise, but each has a very convincing character.

Someone like John Cena has captivated crowds for 4 years now just by simply entering the ring and blowing the roof off the place with cheers and boos.

Shawn Michaels has been around for 7 years in this list and has had a great list of matches, and a great character.

However, I do agree with Triple H as the #1 on this list. He has basically taken the world by storm since his matches with The Rock in 1998. Hate him all you want, every one of you was hating him for his CHARACTER in 2000 and 2001, not for sleeping with the boss's daughter. The "best HHH matches list" does need a little bit of work though :)


Posted By: Mick (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:22 PM

 
 
Where is Kane on this list? I will never forget him running around with the mask on wreaking a path of havoc through the WWF/E. Personally, I wouldn't have Cena in my top 10, and Triple H should slide down the list. The Rock and Austin at 1 and 2 easily

Posted By: Danneh (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:36 PM

 
 
OMFG ANDY CLARK IS SO BRILLIANT!!1!11!!ELEVENTY!!!!!11!

Posted By: JJ (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:39 PM

 
 
This list is utter rubbish. Any Top 25 List that fails to include both The Miz and John Morrison is incomplete. HOO-RAH!

Posted By: MIZFAN (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 09:51 PM

 
 
Dude, This list is horrible. Oh, and by not listing Chris Benoit you discredit yourself as a professional journalist. Never let you personal feeling get in the way of business. HHH as #1 is a complete joke. You need to figure out your taget audience or write about something you know about.

Posted By: Mike Joy (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 10:11 PM

 
 
seriously,samoa joe and aj styles and team 3d what the hell are you on.Serious tna mark.I mean from 98 to 08,thhey were only here for even less than that,maybe 5 years tops,and exactly what did they do.?NOTHING.They bored the hell out of people.Joe won a title,aj styles well overrated,seriously.And what about Batista,Big Show,Ric Flair even,How the hell can you even put AJ Styles,team 3d,samoa joe,and kurt angle over them.Just pathetic.You said 98-08,not the pile of crap that is tna.I mean really,Team 3d and samoa joe higher than the Big Show and Ric Flair,and even christian cage being rated that high.What the hell are you on.You seriously have been f'd by tna.For you to rank team 3d,cage,aj styles,samoa joe as in the top 25 greatestis just totally bullsh%@.I mean really,what about,since your going to include tna's rising stars and not really have done a damn thing stars and are old and had no talent in the first place stars.Then why aren't you including Umaga,MVP,CM Punk,Shelton Benjamin.I measn what the hell has AJ Styles won,the X Division belt,wow so amazing.Such bullsh%@.Benjamin 3 time IC Champ,2 Time WWE Tag team Champ,WGTT,and all those incredible highlights from MITB matches.And all those incredible matches he had.And now Christian really.He was in the WWE for over 7 years.And he wasn't exactly world championship material,or even main eventer.And then he goes to tna,beats their world champion twice.He becomes tna champoion as soon as he gets there.It goes to show you how bad tna really is.And then a mma match between angle and joe.I thought y'all were wrestling.That was just pathetic,and really boring.If tna were really better and joe,cage,team 3d,and styles were really top 25 material,then people ould have noticed that don't love or like tna,or hate or don't like WWE.And Angle,he was good for about 4 years out of his6 year stay.What a dumbass really,leaving when you are a main eventer and your career is doing great and your a big star.Real f'n dumbass.Sure he's the biggest star in the company he is in now.But really how could you not be,I mean when your companies biggest stars are team 3d,angle,joe,nash,sting,styles,and other losers,nobodies,has beens,never was,and couldn't make it in the big leagues so you're a big star now people,and people who just suck but are good in a company where they'rw considered good.That's tna for ya,the best and greatest wrestling company,better than the WWE.ROH,better than the WWE.Really,y'all are definitely f'd up on something or y'all are just f'd up.

Posted By: kris (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 10:45 PM

 
 
Great Column
Although I'm not a big fan of HHH, there isn't anyone here in the comments section who can argue with HHH being first on the list. He ran longer and stronger with the ball than anyone else in recent memory.


Why must you be afraid of some insecure individual being uncomfortable by the inclusion of Chris Benoit; it's your damn column, why must you care about offending anyone? The bottom line is that, the story of The Top 25 Wrestlers (1998-2008) cannot possibly be told without including Benoit on the list.



By the way where's KANE. I can't get over how little respect htere is for Kane, his accomplishments, attitude, loyalty, and workrate are always taken for granted. You have the Dudleyz there and no Kane? WOW




And even though I'm not a big fan of his either, where's Brock Lesnar. He main evented WM XIX, has always been a top carder, and is one of the best big men as far as workrate goes, even though he has zero passion for the biz.


Posted By: The GT Shaman (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 10:46 PM

 
 
"If you're offended by the lack of Benoit in this list, sort your priorities out."

Perhaps you are the one who needs to sort their priorities out if you can't seperate the man from the wrestler.

HHH as number 1 is a joke. Yes, he has been active for most of it (unlike Austin or Rocky) but was only a good wrestler from about 98-03. The last several years with HHH have been painful, he's no longer a good wrestler. And your list isn't impressive (seriously, ONS?), I could make a list like that for anyone who's worked most of the last 10 years, like Angle or Undertaker.


Posted By: August (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 10:57 PM

 
 
Mr. Wilcox, thank you for your opin ion. Some people apparently do not believe anyone's opinion counts except their own. I disagree with some of your list and ranking - therefore I condensed this list into MY 15 picks for Top Wrestlers 1998-2008. (And I agree with you on Benoit if it had not happened - he would def be on my list).

15) Rey Mysterio
14) Samoa Joe
13) Ric Flair
12) Chris Jericho
11) HBK
10) Mankind(Mick Foley)
9) John Cena
8) Trish Stratus
7) Eddie Guerrero
6) Rob Van Dam
5) HHH
4) Kurt Angle
3) Stone Cold Steve Austin
2) The Rock
DRUMROLLLLLL PLEASE:

1) The Undertaker

Before anyone starts going off about me leaving off Christian Cage - I only had room for 15 - he would have been in the same place(as Daniel Wilcox's) had I done 25.
Also - why the need for the derogatory comments just b/c someone has a different viewpoint than yours? Disagreement is human and healthy if kept to an appropriate level. I just don't see why there cannot be a little more respect shown on these posts! (off my soapbox now)! :))


Posted By: AndreFan (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 10:58 PM

 
 
For those who made an excellent point of Kane not making this list, I can say Samoa Joe got Kane's place on my list.

Posted By: AndreFan (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:08 PM

 
 
Fuck all you Benoit lovers. I hope he's burning in hell!

Posted By: Angry Bear (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:31 PM

 
 
How did Cena get number 3? He's been on top maybe 3 years. Triple H, meh?

My real beef is: Ric Flair? Maybe greatest all time, but 1998-2008? I don't think so. Ric Flair aged 49-59 is not the 25th best wrestler.


Posted By: rich (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:46 PM

 
 
Benoit,Jarrett, Booker T,Sting,Matt Hardy,Kane=glaring omissions

Posted By: RipStamps (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:49 PM

 
 
Great OPINION you have there. And I do say OPINION.

Posted By: Captain_Snackpipe (Guest)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:49 PM

 
 
"Why is Cena ranked so high? He isn't nearly as signifcant or as big of
a star as you may think. The Rock did far more than him, and yes, when
a wrestler is so bad that they get the crowd riled up, it IS a bad
thing. God, you're such a mark.


Posted By: JJ (Guest)"

this is exactly why you shouldn't have a computer.

Cena is the biggest money maker since the Attitude Era, whether you like him or not.


Posted By: Darth Mortis (Registered)  on June 04, 2008 at 11:58 PM

 
 
"If you're offended by the lack of Benoit in this list, sort your priorities out. "

My priority is giving him credit for his career.Even if you don't believe that he had no control over what happened at the end of his life,it is in no way condoning the murder of his family members to say he was one of the greats of the last 10 years.


Posted By: schizophrenicwrestlingfan (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:00 AM

 
 
I am in total agreement with Mr. Andy Clark. The comments section was a horrible idea.

Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:19 AM

 
 
I feel 'Taker should be moved up a bit on the list cause he's one of the few guys who's been there for the entire 10 years like HHH, have a number of great macthes and is the most of guy on SD and one of the most over guys in the entire buisness.

Not only that like HBK and HHH a casual fan or someone who haven't watched wrestling in a while will see Taker and say "He's still around...cool" (or he's old) which means people still reconize him. He's also been pretty consistent inside the ring as well.


Posted By: Colin (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:22 AM

 
 
Cena is #3 and only been popular for the last 3-4 years, Taker's been popular for the whole time period and he can't get passed #7? I'm no Cena hater I'm just saying your list is a bit confusing, what about wrestlers who were extremly popular during the early part of the 10 years like Sting or even Goldberg (yeah I remember the Goldberg vs. Stone Cold arguments years ago)

Posted By: Kalvin (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:25 AM

 
 
This is so a mark list. Accomplishments- so Hogan who turned the entire wrestling world around is not on there.

Accomplishments- Lou Theiz ring a bell.

Randy Savage which made Stonecold gimmick even possible is not on the list.

Dude this is horrible. Your a new age WWE mark and it shows oh so much. HHH just based off accomplishments is not even top 10. Based off in ring ability, he's not top 10 either. It seems you just made this list to be a WWE and HHH mark. This list is utter garbage and I can't believe its even on the site.


Posted By: Havok (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:41 AM

 
 
OMG! This persons list has opinions different than mine! How dare he!
Maybe if I call the writer and his list names... THAT would teach him!
\sarcasm

As for the WWE/TNA stuff, it looks like a lot of work went into it. And there are so many twists it feels like TNA has invaded WWE! ;) Keep up the good work.


Posted By: Brent (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 01:13 AM

 
 
How the fuck are rock, cena and edge better wrestlers than KURT ANGLE????

Posted By: deepak (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 02:51 AM

 
 
'Greatest' wrestlers, like you said, is a bad choice of words; 'Influential' is a much better word choice.

There is alot of problems with the list IMO, but the BIGGEST problem I think is deciding to actually write it only on the last 10 years. The last 10 years of wrestling has been dominated by the WWE, which makes this list look pretty lame and one-sided (which is probably a reason for alot of hate). If I may make some observations and criticism:

You put up a mighty hard case of defending HHH, as though trying to anticipate the hate you'd probably get (and the hate is GUSHING). It made you seem desperate to attempt people to like him and recognise him. Everyone KNOWS who he is and how good he is, he is just stale and THAT is why he is hated. Exactly the same as Cena, except he was booked like Superman and shoved down our throats, so people are still bitter about that. The column focused alot more on The Game than anything else, which I thought came across as lame. You could have saved that for a whole different column. That said, in the last 10 years, I would have to agree with your choice.

Putting Cena between Rock and Austin doesn't make any sense. Rock was not complete without Austin, and vice-versa; they made each other and the attitude era together. My point being, it seemed as a way to justify Cena's place in the column too. Cena's good, better than the Rock though? You're out of your mind mate, you said it yourself - he's a natural and stayed on top 'because of his immense popularity'. He wasn't thrown and kept in the main event as a desperate ploy to build a star ala Cena. No hate to the man, It's just I can't find a way to justify his place above Rock.

Other than that, did you even consider WCW? Whilst none of them were great workers, Goldberg, Sting and Hogan made WCW the juggernaught it was in the mid-late nineties. Yet you have Batista, who has main evented Wrestlemania once, and has had a total of 2 interesting angles and good matches with HHH and Undertaker. Stale.

I also disagree with Lita being on the list, and even if added, Matt Hardy has to be above her. They made each other, and Matt has done more.

Btw, even if you disagree on including Benoit, the list still feels stupid without him. I severely doubt you cared about your readers in this case (as judged by your priorities comment) and it was more a personal choice, so that's poor justification.

Granted, it's your opinion, but I doubt you won many readers and, judging from this section, lost even more with this column, which is disappointing because I really enjoy it usually.

Despite this, I still enjoy the fantasy booking, as it's what attracts me most about the column. It's very well written and alot of effort appears to have gone into it.

Outta room!


Posted By: Banz (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 03:45 AM

 
 
Triple H???

Maybe I'm the only one in the world who feels this way but i miss him jobbing to Alex Wright Tim Horner Brad Armstrong Thunder and Lightning and the Cole Twins, Marc Mero etc etc etc.

I know its OLD but its also an unmistakeable FACT, he isnt a good wrestler. His entire arsenal consists of blatantly ripping off Harley Race and Ric Flair circa 1982.

His bragging on the mic is embarrassing cuz we all know how and why he is where he is. He married the bosses daughter. Anything he ever accomplishes will be followed by an asterick in my eyes ...


Posted By: DARREN (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:15 AM

 
 
Ignoring your thinking that Cena was better than the Rock, please stop with this fantasy booking. The number of turns you put in this is ridiculous. Are you Russo in disguise? Your storyline makes the inVasion look well booked. Plus you're as much of a mark as I am., and I'm an idiot.

Posted By: RedCoat (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:17 AM

 
 
HHH = most overrated wrestler of the ten last year.

Posted By: Jin (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 06:05 AM

 
 
Its quite simple really if Rock & Austin are not 1 and 2 either way on your list then your wrong and shouldnt be writing about wrestling.

Posted By: Wrong (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 06:19 AM

 
 
You forgot someone:

Goldberg! Goldberg! Goldberg! Goldberg! Goldberg!

He was to WCW what SCSA was to WWE--A combination of a great character and great booking. You give SCSA credit for this despite him being a wife-beating POS, yet you won't even mention Goldberg despite him actually being a stand-up guy and a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE draw for several years (and would be today if not for HHH politicking against him in WWE).


Posted By: King Durin (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 08:05 AM

 
 
Wow a bunch of recycled crap. Kane surprise chokeslams Taker. Wow did not see that crap happening.....again. Dude get a girlfriend!

Posted By: T-Mac (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 08:08 AM

 
 
"Over those ten years who has been there the entire time? Triple H." - Hardcore Holly?
"And how many people have had as many title reigns as Triple H? No one." - How many people are married to the bosses' daughter who also happens to be the head writer and second-in-command to VKM?

"And how many people have had as many fantastic matches as Triple H? Maybe one or two." - Really? Well I guess if you're booked into that many PPV main events you're bound to strike gold sooner or later.

"And who's had the same level of success as Triple H has as both a heel and a face?" - Steve Austin The Rock and Jericho come to mind. Booker T is arguably the most well-rounded performer at playing both roles too. Had they had the balls to turn Flair or HBK in the past few years, they too would've made great heels.

"there's in no disputing that this is a man who has done a hell of a lot for the business and provided as much entertainment over the years as anyone else on this list" - Nobody else on the list has done as much to detract from my enjoyment of the WWE product either. The way Triple H had himself booked from 2002-2003 did nothing but bore and frustrate fans to the point that they lost half their TV market. So no, given how long Triple H has been booked as the top guy, his contribution to the quality of the product is poor value compared with guys who made the most of their briefer but more enjoyable pushes - Angle, Guerrero, Booker T, RVD etc.


Posted By: The Ratings Killer (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 08:14 AM

 
 
some jackoff actually made a comment that HHH has never failed a drug test. Oh yeah, maybe thats because Cena, HHH, Batista, Taker and Orton will NEVER fail a drug test because like everything else, the tests are rigged!!! no top tier guy will ever get busted!!! All the above mentioned are JUICED TO THE GILLS!!! ESPECIALLY HHH!!!!!! Dear God, come on!!!

Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 08:39 AM

 
 
The List in my opinion isnt as accurate as it could be. Differing opinions, although check who Daniel has as his avatar on his profile ;)

Posted By: Jayow (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 08:45 AM

 
 
One of the worst lists i have ever seen, no Jericho or Eddie in the top 10, Cena above Rock & Taker?, HHH number 1?

Just awful.


Posted By: Jbardo (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 11:01 AM

 
 
you putting hhh at the top shows how far your head is up your ass, stop writing if your that fucking dumb. run your car off a cliff on the way home

Posted By: man with a brain (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 11:33 AM

 
 
Sounds like you clowns need to learn what the role of a professional wrestler is. It is to sell tickets, PPV's and merchandise while gaining TV ratings. Having a good match is completely unnecessary. You people are so one dimensional. Ask yourself this, who is the real mark? The clowns who pretend that they understand what makes a match "great" or the people who realise that wrestling is about money and nothing else.

Posted By: Idiots (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 11:43 AM

 
 
Another thing i am sick of on this site is reading about how great people think MVP is. His US Title reign was a joke and 3/4.

He wins the title from Benoit then what? DQ after dq after countout after countout and pinned in several tag/non title matches.

since dropping the US strap to Matt Hardy he's fallen off the map.

WWE should fire him immediately so he & orlando jordan can write a tell all book "How to Destroy the US Title"


Posted By: DARREN (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:27 PM

 
 
What the? Triple H at #1?

What? You put one of Triple H's best matches as the one where ORTON WAS FUCKING INJURED HALFWAY THROUGH THE MATCH?

Jesus Christ, gtfo.


Posted By: Guest#8013 (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 12:41 PM

 
 
RE: you putting hhh at the top shows how far your head is up your ass,
stop writing if your that fucking dumb. run your car off a cliff on
the way home

Posted By: man with a brain (Guest) on June 05, 2008 at 11:33 AM

What a sad, pitiful person you must be to say something so horrible. I normally do not say mean things, but I am making an exception for you. Why don't you try your suggestion out first and let us all know how it works for you. Daniel Wilcox stated his opinion and it is fine if you do not agree with him, but you are a pathetic person to wish dish on someone over and internet column! I did not see you posting any actual thoughts of your own - next time try constructive criticism - it goes a long way.


Posted By: AndreFan (Registered)  on June 05, 2008 at 01:30 PM

 
 
If you aren't gonna put someone in like Benoit for his horrible actions then you have to consider the actions of others on the list as well.

For example, HHH deserves to be on the list but not the very top because while he is a great wrestler, he's only been umpteen times champ because he wanted to be. He may not have put himself at the top of the biz but he sure kept himself there. The only reason he got to hold the title so many times is because he's Steph's husband. In turn, HHH has devalued the title and devalued the reign of previous champs.
Remember when holding the title like 5 times actually meant something? Not anymore because HHH decided he wanted to hold it for a ridiculous amount of times.

HHH is a great wrestler... but not the best.


Posted By: DrCLos (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 01:36 PM

 
 
Ok, you are blissfully naive and ignorant to have no mention of anything outside the WWE.

1. Kurt Angle
2. Kenta Kobashi
3. The Undertaker
4. Chris Benoit
5. Mitsuharu Misawa
6. Samoa Joe
7. The Rock
8. Bryan Danielson
9. Christopher Daniels
10. Low Ki


Posted By: Disgruntled_Smark (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 02:17 PM

 
 
I have no problem with Ric Flairs placing on the list. As long as the list only covers the last ten years... In the last ten years, what did Flair accomplish? He was co-owner of the WWE for a cup of coffee, and he won a tag title or two. I actually would not have had a problem with Flair not being on a list of best of the last 10 years. Kudos to you sir for having the guts to make YOUR list, and not one to please teh incompetent boobs of the comment section. But I still got to disagree with the H's helping to put over Randy Orton.
My list may have been ordered differently, but it would probably feature the same talent for the most part.
Funny how you stated you would leave Benoit off the list, to avoid controversy, and all it did was get people mad in the other direction. Can't please the masses I guess.
But my list in no particular order, and based solely on my enjoyment of Sports Entertainment.
P.S. Benoit would be on my list if I thought he deserved a spot.

My faves of the last 10 years.

1. The Rock
2. John Cena
3. Randy Orton
4. Steve Austin
5. Christian Cage
6. DX (man were they fun back in the 90's)
7. Sting
8. Booker T
9. Jeff Hardy
10. Rob Van Dam
Based solely on my entertainment from them, and not giving a shit what any of you guys have to say about MY list.


Posted By: Toddo (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 02:41 PM

 
 
Alright, I am turning into an internet fan bad, I need to get a hobby...now, This list is total bullshit. I will agree with some, like Triple H being the greatest of this period, but man, you left out a lot....i.e. Perry Saturn, who I considered a really good performer in the ring at that time. just to name one. And you put Cena over the Rock. COME ON! The top 3 easily are the Rock, HHH, and Austin. Hands down. And lets not forget that from 1998-2001, WCW and the WWF were at the top of their game, even though WCW was on a decline. AND WHERE IN THE HELL IS STING?

Posted By: Mike (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 02:50 PM

 
 
I figure the top ten contains all the right wrestlers, but the order is questionable!

I think you've allowed Cena and HHH too much weight for their performance in recent years, where their dominance has partly resulted from a lack of top-rank competition and where they have reigned over a significant drop in the ratings from the earlier half of your period.

I'd have it like this:
1 - Austin
2 - The Rock
3 - Kurt Angle
4 - HHH
5 - The Undertaker
6 - John Cena
7 - Edge
8 - Vince McMahon
9 - HBK
10 - Mick Foley

Austin and Rock are clerly at the top - great booking, great matches, huge ratings, huge sales, WWE is still riding their wave! Split them according to your preference.

Angle has found himself in more classic matches than Trips and has just finished nearly a year as dominant champ in TNA to top off all his work in WWE.

Then the decisive reasons for the lower order are:
Trips - shades the Undertaker with more belts and the quality of his work before he jacked up.
Taker - Clearly head and shoulders above all those below him (although if they'd put more belts on HBK he'd be tied with Taker up here).
Cena - has been huge for 3 years, and earlier busted his ass to be an entertaining mid-carder
Edge - now a top heel with big storylines, good character + solid midcard work, and did great tag-team work in the early part of our period
Vince - contentious, but has competed and has been massively influential. Wrestles in enough of his feuds to merit a place in the top 10 on his storylines and pushes alone (not the wrestling!)
HBK - was out of action for a lot of time, and after coming back has stolen the show a lot, but hasn't won much/spent much time at main event level.
Mick Foley - is God.

I suppose serious contenders for the top 10 are: Joe, RVD, Booker T, Goldberg.

Benoit was too bad on the mic to be in serious contention - I'd reckon him the best 'sporting' wrestler of the decade, though (i.e. guy I'd most like to watch in the ring, regardless of opponent).


Posted By: evil_dave83 (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 02:54 PM

 
 
Even though I have a few disagreements with ya list, its still aight. If you look at the past 10 years you really have to put HHH over Austin and The Rock because out of those 3 he's been active during the whole 10 year frame. HHH may be hated, but you got to give the man his props when he's in the ring.

Posted By: KD (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 03:44 PM

 
 
I agree. HHH is the man!

Posted By: Sam (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 03:57 PM

 
 
"Top 25 Greatest Wrestler" (1998-2008)

I honestly think the title should be "Top 25 Greatest Current and Former Wrestler in the WWE" (1998-2008)

You should of just left out AJ and Samoa Joe.

And if that is the case, then I think the list should a little something like the following: Note: I agree and disagree with a few of your choices.

01. HHH
02. Undertaker
03. Stone Cold Steve Austin
04. The Rock
05. Kurt Angle
06. Shawn Michaels
07. Eddie Guerrero
08. Chris Benoit
09. John Cena
10. Edge
11. Y2J
12. Mick Foley
13. Rey Mysterio Jr.
14. Trish Stratus
15. Randy Orton
16. Kane
17. Christian
18. Hardyz
19. Dudleyz
20. Rob Vam Dam
21. Booker T
22. Ric Flair
23. JBL
24. Batista
25. Lita


Posted By: babalu (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:19 PM

 
 
This was a bold list. I applaud your decision to go with Triple H in the top slot.

I also respect your decision to not list Chris Benoit. He does not deserve an ounce of honor.


Posted By: Guest#6211 (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:35 PM

 
 
Bryan Danielson?!?!?!

how is he not on the list?


Posted By: Bernie (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:36 PM

 
 
way to many run ins and way to many dirty endings.and make a brand new world order

Posted By: dgrampm (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:46 PM

 
 
What a joke that Hulk Hogan isn't in the top 25 of all time. I can understand if you were talking technical wrestlers, but you have VINCE on your list. This make you just look silly.

Posted By: Maass (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:57 PM

 
 
Even though he's in the independents, I think Bryan Danielson would've been a lock for a Top 10.

Non-USA guys I would also consider are Kenta Kobashi and El Hijo Del Santo.


Posted By: Floyd (Registered)  on June 05, 2008 at 04:58 PM

 
 
I'm not even going to bother replying to the comments. I deal with enough morons at my job all day.

All I'm going to say is Wilcox is right on the money with his #1 choice.


Posted By: Guest#8187 (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 05:33 PM

 
 
HHH earned many of his titles before marrying Steph, so that destroys that argument.

Personally, Benoit wouldn't have been in my top 10 even before the murders. He was a good wrestler, but he just didn't have that IT factor for me.


Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 05:40 PM

 
 
HHH was wrestler of the year in 2000. This I agree with. But who did he feud with in that year? Y2J, Chris Benoit, Austin, Rock, Taker and Angle. 6 of the true greats of the business. Unless it's one of the above give or take a Michaels here or someone else I've forgotten that's dragged a high quality match outta the guy. Oh I'm sorry, who HHH has allowed to drag him to a high quality match. I prefer to look at match quality rather than title reigns personally. Mr Master Plan, the Game spent from 2002 to 2007 hitting people with sledge hammers and being the only talent on the roster that was consistently portrayed as being powerful and not to be toyed with where as the likes of Benoit was curtain jerking PPVs with Spike and Rhyno. I guess what I'm trying to say is that to call HHH the best wrestler of the last decade is 2 things to the people he wrestled against in 2000. The people who made him. It is both spitting in their face and a testament to how good they really were. I will say that having fallen out of watching wrestling early last year and only just getting back to it now I'm delighted to see Trip so clearly off the 'roids and producing quality matches against. Guess someone told him that titles don't make a Legacy. Interesting top 25. A little Marky but then again that's 411 these days. God damn it. I really am a Nerd among Nerds.

Posted By: Rob Von Doom (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 05:40 PM

 
 
#10 - BRIAN PILLMAN
#9 - MR PERFECT
#8 - RAY TRAYLOR
#7 - RICK RUDE
#6 - MIKE AWESOME
#5 - CANDIDO
#4 - CRASH (HOLLY)
#3 - HAWK
#2 - EDDIE GUERERRO
#1 - CHRIS BENOIT


Posted By: MR DEATH (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 05:42 PM

 
 
Any list that has Vince McMahon in the top 10 should have Austin number 1. Obviously wrestling talent is not the basis.

Let's be honest. HHH is a main eventer, but had a lot of bad runs at the top. Definitely top three behind Austin and Rock.

Oh and Benoit deserves to be on the list. WHatever he did outside the ring does not erase history. The Germans try to erase history as well. Sorry bro, but the list sucks


Posted By: Willie D (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 08:31 PM

 
 
so I read the list and thought what would a list look like that was purely by the numbers? so I made my own list with a points system like this:
World titles = 2pts

Rumble win = 4pts

WM main event = 4pts

Summerslam/Survivor series main event = 2pts

other PPV main = 1pt

and wins get 1pt extra
eg Taker beat Edge at WM24 so he gets 5pts , edge gets 4pts

and main events are the LAST match on the card

heres the list
10:Brock Lesnar 29pts

09:Randy Orton 30pts

08:HBK 34pts

07:Batista 36pts

06:Kurt Angle 37pts

05:John Cena 53pts

04:Undertaker 64pts

03:Rock 80pts

02:Austin 85pts



01:HHH 115pts

quite telling of WWE's product i think


Posted By: J (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 09:17 PM

 
 
You'd get criticism of this list for it being very biased to personal tastes over actual talent. Jeff Hardy is nowhere near Matt's in ring abilities. Yet Matt's not even on the list. Which is where your credibility is already lost.

Posted By: Blanky (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 09:27 PM

 
 
Samoa Joe doesn't deserve to be on this list.

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 09:39 PM

 
 
"so I read the list and thought what would a list look like that was
purely by the numbers? so I made my own list with a points system
like this:
World titles = 2pts

Rumble win = 4pts

WM main event = 4pts

Summerslam/Survivor series main event = 2pts

other PPV main = 1pt

and wins get 1pt extra
eg Taker beat Edge at WM24 so he gets 5pts , edge gets 4pts

and main events are the LAST match on the card

heres the list
10:Brock Lesnar 29pts

09:Randy Orton 30pts

08:HBK 34pts

07:Batista 36pts

06:Kurt Angle 37pts

05:John Cena 53pts

04:Undertaker 64pts

03:Rock 80pts

02:Austin 85pts



01:HHH 115pts

quite telling of WWE's product i think"

Cool, I like that system. I think it's atleast mostly accurate of the past 10 years for the WWE! Nice system, J!

PEACE!


Posted By: THE BOMB! (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 10:43 PM

 
 
someone said kane ?..the big red 'jobber'?..

Posted By: sid (Guest)  on June 05, 2008 at 11:26 PM

 
 
Seriously - Worst 411 column EVER!!! and i've read Jake Chambers columns too......

Posted By: Chilly McFreeze (Guest)  on June 06, 2008 at 12:04 AM

 
 
The Top 25 Wrestlers 1998-2008
25)AJ Styles
24)Samoa Joe
23)Ric Flair
22)Big Show
21)Sting
20)Christian
19)Batista
18)Rob Van Dam
17)Rey Mysterio
16)Kane
15)Jeff Jarrett
14)Booker T
13)Randy Orton
12)Eddie Guerrero
11)Edge
10)Mick Foley
9)Chris Jericho
8)Kurt Angle
7)Chris Benoit
6)Shawn Michaels
5)The Undertaker
4)John Cena
3)The Rock
2)Stone Cold
1)Triple H
.....sorry but this is the best list fuckers...(Dudleyz and Hardyz best tag teams from this era)


Posted By: RipStamps (Guest)  on June 06, 2008 at 12:25 AM

 
 
Just because Chris Benoit killed his wife Nancy, son Daniel and himself does not mean he wasn't one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, grow up.

Posted By: The Weesel (Guest)  on June 06, 2008 at 01:05 AM

 
 
I don't think anyone would deny that Benoit was a great in ring performer. But we all know there is so much more to being a Pro Wrestler than in ring ability. Benoit was great to watch in the ring. But in my opinion it stopped there. Any other time he was on camera he just looked uncomfortable, and never really offered anything... Not for me anyway. I know he had his fans,believe me, he was a favorite of one of my best friends. It is my opinion that when doing a list of top wrestlers, Benoit would not really fit on any list other than Great IN RING performers. I'm not trying to stir up shit here, just stating an opinion. I will say that it is a testament to his in ring ability that he was able to get as far in the business as he did without the total package that you get from your Triple H's and your Rock's and Austin's. All those guys could work, they could talk, and they can damn sure get you involved in a storyline.

Posted By: Toddo (Registered)  on June 06, 2008 at 09:34 AM

 
 
Jesus Christ in a bucket people are retarded - just like with any list it's totally subjective so take it for what it's worth - one guy's opinion.

Seriously though, his match with Orton at ONS 2008 is a "great" match? Hardly. It may have been a great match if Orton hadn't been injured, but as it is...no. To me, that more than anything else exposes you as a HHH fanboy.


Posted By: The Marino (Guest)  on June 06, 2008 at 11:07 AM

 
 
Is there such a thing as an unbiased list? Bias is a word that gets tossed around too easily.

Toddo sums up my opinion on Benoit and Angle nicely.


Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest)  on June 06, 2008 at 03:59 PM

 
 
to anyone complaining about Hogan, Flair, or anyone else who were big stars in the eighties...

1998-2008.

I CAN READ!


Posted By: ireadthewholearticle (Guest)  on June 06, 2008 at 09:21 PM

 
 
I have an idea. Make posting comments only for Registered Members. That would cut a good bit of this abusive BS out.

Decent list. I understand your decision on The Game. I'd still have Rock over Cena though.


Posted By: The Stealer (Registered)  on June 09, 2008 at 08:41 AM

 
 
you lost all credibility in my opinion when you had vince mcmahon on this list. also, for hhh's best matches, are you nuts, a 3rd of those matches, no one in their right mind would consider good. case in point, vs hbk (hiac),hhh vs hardy (armageddon), and the match with orton from one night stand was a disaster thanks to the injury

Posted By: nick (Guest)  on July 28, 2008 at 09:25 PM

 
 
In Triple H's greatest matches you forgot his match against Chris Jericho inside Hell in a Cell At Judgment Day 2002

Posted By: Mark (Guest)  on November 01, 2008 at 03:05 PM

 
 
...

I didn't expect a good list when I clicked this link... but I didn't think it would be THAT bad.


Posted By: Guest#8923 (Guest)  on January 07, 2009 at 12:46 AM

 




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