411’s Buy or Sell 7.04.08: NWA in RoH, PWG’s Future, The Best so far in 2008, and more in The Mid Year Blow Out Edition!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 07.04.2008

The 411 staff discusses The First Half of 2008 in the world of Indy Wrestling as Six of 411Wrestling’s Finest Indy Minds come together for an all out brawl!

Welcome everyone to WEEK Sixty Three of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.


Week Sixty Three's Match-Up:
As promised, we have six of the best in 411 answering questions this week. Each writer has been asked to answer 12 questions. Six of them in traditional Buy or Sell Format and six others that are general questions.

Truth B Told Writer and the biggest PWG Follower on the Internet, Bayani Domingo
Former Buy or Sell Writer and Resident Cool Kid, Samuel Berman
The Guy who probably wishes he was covering Impact thanks to Speed Muscle being in TNA, Ryan Byers
Column of Honor Writer and the biggest RoH fan of the 411 Writers, Ari Berenstein
The boss, doing something of everything, and our own Living Legend, Larry Csonka
And finally your host, who is still marking out to CM Punk winning the World Heavyweight Title, Michael Bauer

Both the PWG World and Tag Team titles will switch hands at the 5th Anniversary Show.

Bayani Domingo : SELL. Look, the only reason that Human Tornado is coming back is to properly give Hero the "rub" of being the one to take the title off him. There have been too many problems already with the PWG title to allow it to once again be vacated due to injury. I am not looking forward to the Cage Match as much as others because I'm actually worried about Tornado and how the match will stand up next to the last Cage Match between B-Boy and Joey Ryan that was really underrated in my opinion. I don't have any doubt these guys will give 100%, but if Tornado is only at 50% then that's still an average of 75%, but since Chris Hero is a "Super Athlete" he actually can give up to 115% which means…damn this Steiner math. I don't think the Tag Titles are changing hands for the sole reason that PWG is in so much flux right now that they need some real stability. Having Jack/Roddy hold the titles really brand them as PWG guys and even though AoTF are the bigger names in Indy now, they are also RoH champions and it wouldn't do as much for PWG to have AoTF hold both titles as it would for them. PWG really needs to start pushing and branding their own guys and if RoH isn't going to give Jack or Roddy really strong pushes, then I'm sure PWG will be more than happy to. So long as they're healthy enough after RoH shows to receive them that is.

Samuel Berman : BUY . I'm torn here, because I think that PWG would like to have more stability for their titles than they have had in recent months. That said, Jack Evans is in the middle of an extended stay in Mexico and Human Tornado is the walking wounded. I think Chris Hero deserves a run on top of a major Independent, seeing as he hasn't really been a company's ace since essentially 2005 in IWA Mid-South (though some might argue 2006 in CZW). I think that a reboot of sorts after five years is in order, with some new stars atop the PWG landscape, and that means gold for Hero, Jacobs & Black.

Ryan Byers : SELL. I'd be willing to bet that the PWG singles title changes hands, in large part because the Human Tornado is pretty banged up right now. Granted, he is young and, as such, he can get away with doing more stupid stuff in the ring while injured than others can. However, everybody has their breaking point, and I'd be amazed if he isn't ready to either take some time off or work a less physical style for a bit. If that truly is the case, there's no better chance for him to drop then title than here against Chris Hero, as it would give the promotion a memorable way to cap off one of its more important shows in addition to giving fans the most satisfying ending to the very heated Hero/Tornado feud. Though the singles strap may be residing around a new waist after July 6, I can't say the same about the tag belts. The Age of the Fall have been in PWG on and off for a while now, they're not quite what I'd consider "regulars" within the promotion, and I don't know that a company who is having difficulty bringing in outside performers (see: Los Angeles, Battle of) should take a risk by giving gold to two such part-timers.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . I absolutely believe this is the right moment for the PWG Heavyweight Title to change hands after a very long and in depth storyline between Human Tornado and Chris Hero. The time is right for a title change given Tornado's injury still looks to have him out for the rest of the year (although, with wrestlers you can never really tell if / when they'll jump the gun on a comeback) and Hero has been chasing Tornado, Castagnoli and Kingston (when he has appeared on shows) the whole way through. It's time for a huge babyface win and some stability behind the PWG heavyweight title and at this time Chris Hero is the man to make it happen. However, I do not believe the tag titles will change hands from Jack Evans and Roderick Strong to the Age of the Fall. Strong and Evans are top of the card favorites for PWG and while Evans has been wrestling mostly in Mexico the last few months, he has made exceptions for PWG. Jacobs and Black are the hot ticket right now for Ring of Honor, but this is the West Coast and they are the outsiders here. I think Evans and Strong continue to be a well oiled tag team machine and a proven draw for PWG and they will hold onto the straps through the fifth anniversary.

Larry Csonka : SELL . Something tells me that while it SHOULD happen, that it will not happen. First of all I have no idea how Tornado is going to work a match with his knee being so torn up. I just don't see how they will do it, but something smells fishy and I have this feeling that he will miraculously retain the title against Chris Hero. I think they need to get the title off of him ASAP, but my SPIDEY SENSE is tingling here. As for the tag titles, I would put them on Black and Jacobs just because they are the hot act right now and I think that they would be great as champs in PWG. I can see one title change during the 5th anniversary, but not both; although I think they should.

Michael Bauer : BUY . It's a tough call, but I'll buy this. It's obvious Tornado's knee will not be 100% percent and they need to get the title off of him and onto somebody who can represent the company. That would be Chris Hero. As for the Tag Team Titles, I guess if the PWG won't be doing as many shows you can keep the belts of Evans and Strong, but the safer bet is The Age of the Fall team of Jacobs and Black since they don't travel overseas like Evans does. Just incase something happens where Evans can't get back, you have a team that can and will be there.

4 SELLS, 2 BUYS!

Mschif will have two successful title defenses at this weekend's SHIMMER tapings.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I'm pretty sure no defenses have been announced in advance, which makes this one a bit harder to call. That said, I think that MsChif is going to hold onto the title for at least a little while, considering she just won the belt recently. The wrinkle here is far more an issue of her putting the belt on the line twice rather than her managing to retain twice. It's certainly possible that she ends up involved in a tag match or a non-title affair.

Ryan Byers : BUY . MsChif essentially came out of nowhere to win the championship in April. Granted, she wasn't an opening match comedy act, but she had a record and a push going in to her title match that made most fans think she was more a sacrificial lamb than anything else. As such, in order for her to be taken seriously in the promotion going forward, she needs to be at least somewhat successful in her championship reign. If she wins the title as a weak contender and then drops it within her first three defenses, the crowd will assume that her big victory was nothing more than a fluke. This could damage the scream queen's credibility going forward, whereas a protracted reign followed by a competitive loss would at least solidify her as an upper midcarder for years to come. (Side note: Come say "hi" to me if you're at the tapings this weekend. I'll be the guy in pink.)

Ari Berenstein : BUY . MsChif's opponents for the tapings haven't been announced yet, but I don't think she's about to drop the straps. For one thing, MsChif is just getting started with her run as champion. It makes no sense for her to lose the belt right away, especially since being SHIMMER champion (and NWA women's champion) is supposed to help to elevate her career and her public profile (she was recently featured in an issue of Pro Wrestling Illustrated and has more bookings for Ring of Honor than before she won the title). Losing right off won't do that. Besides, SHIMMER tapings to DVD releases are so far from each other that fans are just now getting the chance to purchase the DVD where she wins the belt. Losing the title right now would make getting those DVDs irrelevant and thus a bad business move. I don't think Dave Prazak is in the habit of doing bad business and he's shown patience enough in his building his women's wrestling company that I don't see him hotshotting the title right off on the second champion.

Larry Csonka : BUY . Buy easily. I think that it would be ridiculous to take the title off of her in her first weekend of defenses. She has worked hard and deserves a run with the title, and that means that she has to survive the weekend as the champion. If she doesn't, I would seriously question the normally good booking of the SHIMMER promotion. MsChif as champion is a good thing, and she needs to make it out of these tapings in my opinion with the title.

Michael Bauer : SELL. I sell this not because I think MsChif is going to lose the title, but because I think they are only going to defend the title once. There is no doubt MsChif deserves a long reign, but it doesn't mean she defends it in every taping. Much like in the last set of tapings, MsChif could very easily be in a tag team match against her challenger for the second taping. I could easily see Sara Del Rey getting a rematch, but I can't think of who the second person to get a shot would be. Maybe then throw Kong in there, but I almost think that should be built up until the next set of tapings.

Bayani Domingo : BUY . I have no idea who MsChif is even wrestling this weekend, does anyone else? Does SHIMMER even release their cards all the time? at this point I'll go with "BUY" for no other reason than I don't even know of any big rival that is on the card or any built up feud which is getting blown off at the upcoming tapings so I'm going to say that more than likely MsChif will be walking into the tapings as a champion and walking out a Champion.

4 BUYS, 2 SELLS!

Takeshi Morishima will end 2008 as the GHC Heavyweight Champion.

Ryan Byers : BUY . Sure, why not? I mean, really, who else does the company have to put the strap on? Granted, they could always do an "outsider" victory the likes of which has been all the rage in Japan the last several years, but, short of that, I don't see a viable contender on the horizon. The guys who the NOAH crowds take seriously are all too old (Sorry Misawa, Sorry Kobashi), the "juniorheavyweight goes heavyweight" experiment was deemed a failure (Sorry Marufuji, Sorry KENTA), and everybody else is too young (Sorry Go). Combine that with the fact that the build to Morishima winning the belt seemed like it lasted forever and a day, and I don't think it'll be surprising in the slightest if the tubby fellow holds on to his championship for the next five months.

Ari Berenstein : BUY . Takeshi Morishima isn't the "future" of NOAH anymore—he is the here and now of NOAH. As such and now that he has made it almost four months as champion, I expect him to continue to have a very lengthy reign as champion—we're talking at least a year here. There isn't necessarily a plethora of title contenders for him right now and we've already seen that NOAH is willing to stretch out the time between his title defenses. I believe this is not just a good thing though, I believe this is a GREAT thing. Spread out title defenses will allow Morishima to have contenders who are built up to the title shots—even if they are the same people who have previously received opportunities at the GHC title over the years, be it KENTA, Marufuji or Jun Akiyama. Obviously I believe the big money match is a title bout between Morishima and Kenta Kobashi, but the health of Kobashi is still and will likely always be an issue. Maybe we'll get to it, maybe not. If we do, then we can talk about the possibility of a title change and right now I don't see it happening, so for right now Morishima is the guy for NOAH to finish up 2008 as champion.

Larry Csonka : BUY . Buy big time. Takeshi Morishima becoming the GHC Heavyweight Champion was a long time coming, and in order for it to work and draw big business he needs a long run to show the fans that they are behind him. I feel for the run to work that he needs time and solid title defenses to do so. He is off to a good start, but if they cut the legs out from underneath him, it is bad for business and Japanese wrestling, business wise, will remain in the toilet. Besides, I applaud NOAH for allowing a woman to not only carry their title but to wrestle topless, that's innovative. What? Morishima is a dude? I was positive that Morishima was an angry Japanese woman. I kid, but really, think about it.

Michael Bauer : SELL . This has nothing to do with faith or lack thereof with Morishima. This has everything to do with Japan always seeming to changes champions and give somebody new a shot at the drop of hat. At least, that is the way it looks to me. Something tells me that only one title defense in the span of three or four months means Misawa has little faith in the guy or just little chance to book him, the latter seemingly insane.

Bayani Domingo : SELL . The guy has held the title since March and only just made his first title defense. That doesn't bode well in my opinion. I can actually see NOAH getting antsy soon and deciding to put the title back on one of their old stand bys soon. It's like Dusty Baker is booking NOAH because it seems like vets are the only ones that get any really good run with the title. I know Marifuji got a run with the title, but that didn't last very long and I wouldn't be surprised to see Morishima lose the belt before his 5th title defense… which seems like it might be in 2010, so I guess you never know.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I'm pissing in the wind here, because NOAH booking is kind of unpredictable, but I think Morishima will lose the belt by mid-October at the latest. I don't have a ton of basis here or anything, but something about his reign (which may be the booking as much as anything he's doing or not doing) lacks the "buzz" that I had expected. I'm not sure who's going to take the belt from him, but if forced to pick I'd go with Misawa winning it back in their rematch.

3 BUYS, 3 SELLS!

With victories over Bryan Danielson and Jay Briscoe, Erick Stevens should be in line for an RoH World Title shot.

Ari Berenstein : BUY . In as much as anyone who can cleanly defeat Bryan Danielson in Ring of Honor deserved to be considering a main event caliber player and worthy of a title shot. While he isn't the ROH World Champion anymore and the "Nest Wrestler in the World" moniker applies more to his non-kayfabe status than kayfabed rankings these days, you better believe that Danielson is still very important within Ring of Honor. Danielson is the standard-bearer for Ring of Honor and is capable of delivering every time out. If you are booked against Danielson and win, you should get a title shot and that includes not only Erick Stevens but Claudio Castagnoli as well.

Larry Csonka : BUY . Sure, why not. ROH has a knack of creating viable challengers out of seemingly nowhere by just having a few placed wins like these wins over Danielson and Briscoe. That's the key to booking Danielson so strong, he is like a GOD there, and a win over him does big things for people. Jay Briscoe does well in singles and is a tag GOD there, so a clean win over him is important to a lesser degree. Add them together and Stevens is easily believable as a title contender.

Michael Bauer : BUY . For me, the question is not if, but when? The next set of bookings in Toronto and Detriot has Kevin Steen and Claudio each getting shots, respectfully. New York City has the chance for it to happen, but that card is already massive and if he were to get the shot, he'd have to lose as to not upstage what has already been booked (Steen-erico vs. MCMG for example). Erick Stevens deserves a shot for doing more than winning a four corner survival, including besting Danielson for a second time this year.

Bayani Domingo : BUY. Why not? Everyone else gets a title shot. I have mine in September at the Michigan show. I'm planning on actually loosening the middle rope so that if Nigel goes for the Jawbreaker he'll fall out of the ring and break his neck. Feel free to come cheer me on. I'll be represented by "Tart and Tangy" Michael Ike. Seriously though Erick Stevens is getting his 2nd wind right now and I could see him challenging Nigel soon, I don't see him winning it but I could see a match happening in the next month or so. I'm still at a loss for who Nigel will drop the belt to, but I have a feeling it won't be a guy nicknamed "Choo Choo".

Samuel Berman : BUY. I suppose Stevens should be in line for a shot, which would be his third but the first to not be earned in a Four Corner Survival. However, even if he's amongst the contenders, Stevens is not at all ready to be considered for an ROH World Title run. Don't get me wrong, I like Stevens a lot and he's had some fantastic showings so far in 2008, but he's simply not ready to carry ROH as its singles champion. Wins over veterans like Danielson and Aries and the Briscoes will go a long way towards moving Stevens up the ladder, but he won't be ready to be ROH World Champion until those wins aren't newsworthy and are considered more run-of-the-mill.

Ryan Byers : SELL . Well, from a storyline standpoint he probably should be. Unfortunately, I have a hard time personally getting behind any Erick Stevens push because the guy is just so bland. I know we're talking about Ring of Honor, where I'm supposed to just cheer the guy who hits the hardest or does the most flips per minute, but is it too much to ask that Stevens exhibits some degree of personality before being made in to an integral part of the company?

5 BUYS, 1 SELL!

The Necro Butcher will leave the Age of the Fall before he is scheduled to face Jimmy Jacobs in Chicago.

Larry Csonka : BUY. I am going broke because I am buying a lot today, but what the hell. While I have enjoyed the inclusion of THE NECRO BUTCHER in the Age of the Fall stable, I have always felt that the crazed West Virginian was best on his own and a psychotic bastard causing havoc on any and everyone in his path. I will say that he feels like they have taken advantage of him, causing the split and possible destruction of Jacobs. Write that on your MYSPACE EMO BOY!

Michael Bauer : SELL . I'm more inclined to believe that Necro will leave Age of the Fall immediately after the match against Jacobs in Chicago. I can picture some weird swerve where Tyler Black costs Necro the win against Jacobs. Aries comes out to get a piece of the man who spiked Lacey and Necro, given the chance to finish Aries once and for all, turns right around and pounds on Black and Jacobs. Yeah, I know, it is very similar to what happened with Albright breaking out of Sweet N' Sour Inc., but it is just as logical, if not more logical here.

Bayani Domingo : SELL. The AoTF can NOT afford to lose Necro, otherwise they're just a tag team with some flunky jobbers behind them. Necro is the muscle and the constant threat that keeps AoTF so dangerous. Jimmy is the Heart, Tyler is the Soul, and Necro is the backbone, without the backbone you're just left kind of scrunched up on the floor, immobile and invertebrate. Which…actually sounds like a cool tag team name for Tank and Bobby Dempsey. But I digress, I hope this is another way Jimmy is outsmarting Aries because at this point AoTF is the only really thing in RoH that makes any sense to me.

Samuel Berman : BUY . I think the more interesting storyline element would be to have Jacobs conspire with Necro to lay down for him only to have the Necro Butcher turn on him at the last second, but I don't think that's how they'll play this one. I see the Age of the Fall turning on the Necro Butcher in a sort of preemptive strike, with Black trying (unsuccessfully) to put the brawler out of action in advance of his date with Jacobs. The real question then becomes who takes Necro's place as the Age of the Fall's third man.

Ryan Byers : SELL . Half of the appeal of booking this match in the first places is attempting to figure out what Necro will do to Jacobs match given their existing relationship. If you kill the relationship before the match takes places, you eliminate what otherwise could be a fairly compelling storyline. Gabe has made a few calls with the booking in recent months that have left me scratching my head, but I can't imagine that he'd do something that out of left field. Besides, if the results of recent main events are any indication, MsChif may be getting involved with AoTF, and there is no way that Necro can leave the group before he has an opportunity to do a romance angle with the 'Chiffer. That's too great of an opportunity to pass up.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . The intrigue behind the match revolves around the idea that BOTH men are in Age of the Fall. It doesn't work quite as well if the parameters have been so solidly defined in black and white, or in this case, in AotF or not. Aries is trying to play mind games with Jacobs. Its better if there are shades of grey in Necro's character, where Jacobs is forced to fight him but still wants him on his side. Meanwhile, Necro has been given options and choices to make, so seeing him conflicted and trying to react to that is very intriguing. Keep the suspense going of what's happening, before, during and after the match—you do that by not forcing the issue. If Necro leaves or if he is kicked out, let that happen after this match in Chi-town.

4 SELLS, 2 BUYS!

The NWA World Heavyweight Title will change hands in Ring of Honor in 2008.

Michael Bauer : BUY . This is another tough call, but I would have to imagine that at some point, the NWA Booking Committee will want to change who holds their title and as long as it is staying in the indies, there is no better place to change it than in Ring of Honor. Now, I doubt Albright will win the title in New York City, but I can easily see a Danielson or Claudio win the title at some time this year.

Bayani Domingo : SELL . No way, no how. I would imagine that the NWA still believes they hold the more prestigious belt and I would tend to agree. Sure they have shrunk in relevance in 2008, but the facts that Xavier held the RoH title is a hole that they will be digging themselves out of for years to come. Unless the NWA is getting something really sweet out of the deal like more RoH wrestlers on their shows I can't imagine that they'd save a big deal like the first title change of the new era of NWA wrestling for a show that they aren't promoting.

Samuel Berman : BUY . Having the NWA World Heavyweight Title around could be interesting from a storyline perspective, but ROH has long since graduated past needing to recognize an outside title enough to feature it as an alternative to its own World Championship. The only way that I'd see this happening is if ROH started using the title as the crux of the feud between Sweet ‘n Sour Inc. and Brent Albright, seeing as Albright was one of the top options to take the title in last year's tournament.

Ryan Byers : BUY . When the NWA held its recent championship tournament, the entire plan was to get the title on to Bryan Danielson. When Danielson went down with his eye injury, things had to be changed at the last minute, and the belt wound up with "Scrap Iron" Adam Pearce. Call me crazy, but I think that the NWA still might have their eye on the American Dragon when it comes to potential champions, and it wouldn't surprise me if they want to kickstart his reign on a much larger stage than any NWA affiliated show would afford. ROH gives them just that opportunity.

Ari Berenstein : SELL . Maybe. I definitely see where they are going with the Brent Albright vs. Sweet & Sour Inc. feud and that is principally based on the Albright-Pearce issue. Pearce betrayed Albright's confidence by convincing him the Hangmen 3- SNSI merger was going to work. It didn't and now he wants a piece of everyone, but Pearce most of all. So we're definitely going to get out fair share of Pearce vs. Albright, the question is whether or not the NWA will agree to have their title changed in what is likely to be just a mid to upper mid card attraction match on an ROH show. I'd say the chances of that are likely slim, but not out of the question entirely. I think its more likely that Albright will be booked to "invade" an NWA event with Pearce on the card, challenge for the title and win it there. That way both sides get something out of the deal—ROH gets Albright some good storyline action that will keep him occupied for sometime while building him up to the next level, and the NWA will have its title featured as an important piece in another company but could have a title switch in its own home base.

Larry Csonka : BUY . I think that ROH and the NWA came to a deal, and part of that deal involved a title change. To me that makes the most sense, because I can't see a deal where they get the title to use, but that is it. I think there HAS to be an NWA Title change somewhere down the line, and that has me interested. VIVA the old school 10-pounds of gold.

4 BUYS, 2 SELLS!



That's it for the Buy or Sell Questions. Now on to the general answer questions.

Due to talent issues that have already caused the Battle of Los Angeles to be pushed back months, do you think Pro Wrestling Guerilla will still be in buisness by the end of 2008?

Bayani Domingo : PWG will without a DOUBT be in business by the end of 2008. I'd say that 2009 is a guarantee as well. Beyond that…I'm not sure. The problem for PWG is that they are experiencing some serious management issues right now. It's not like when IWA:MS was teetering on bankruptcy because they were losing money, or CZW lost out on a ton of fans because of the bookers and owners pissing off all their best talent, PWG has a problem with securing talent, securing venues, and becoming a TOP priority on the Indy scene. The problem goes back to the beginning of the year in that 85% of all PWG shows have at least one match changed because of injury or no-shows. There are some shows that are changed COMPLETELY from top to bottom because a Human Tornado got hurt in the Mid-West, Roderick Strong got hurt in RoH the night before, as did Danielson, Low Ki got messed up in Japan, Eddie Kingston disappeared, Los Luchas can't be found, Briscoes can't make it out of the airport bar, someone didn't know they were even BOOKED, etc, etc, etc. Someone at the top needs to pull their shit together because it's clearly affecting fan attendance.

Look, I don't care what people say, the attendance at PWG shows from this year to last is down at least 20 to 25% in my opinion. Even the bigger shows like All-Star Weekend and DDT4 aren't filled. On top of that PWG is having problems securing venues as evidence by the fact they are still using the American Legion Hall in Reseda that anyone with half a brain hates because of the ownership and the lack of space. Guys are ducking their heads to pull off top rope moves and there are constant distractions by the drunken creepy owner himself. For as much as PWG touted their deal with various Armories around SoCal they haven't used them in more than maybe a couple shows all year. Even with that they can't seem to negotiate for some freakin' A/C because the shows are just ridiculously hot now. I'm not sure if the issue for PWG right now is capital or organization, but it seems like the company that was on the verge of challenging RoH for Indy supremacy has taken a giant step back.

The bigger problem with the promotion right now is that they are essentially getting "sloppy seconds" from other shows. I know there are some concessions being made on PWG's part to run Sunday shows in order to not conflict with RoH and still get good and popular talent on the card, but too often guys are missing flights or getting hurt in RoH before they even make it to PWG. There has even been talk that guys are busting their asses and killing themselves in RoH and the aftermath is a somewhat tamer and limited match in PWG. Guys have been wrestling for 3 days straight and I've noticed a few times where someone just seems exhausted, out of it, or too hurt to go full tilt on a Sunday. I really believe that hurts the product and also makes PWG look like the little brother waiting for a hand me down. That's not to say that every guy isn't busting tail to give PWG fans what they want, but sometimes they just physically can't. The heart is willing but the flesh is black, blue, and welted.

The problems with BoLA belie the fact that PWG doesn't have all their shit together and maybe it's just a growing pain of a rough patch, but this is PWG's "Wrestlemania" and the fact that they couldn't secure talent or decent enough replacement talent is just sad. With Dragon Gate coming into town in September one would hope they could have put together a joint show the weekend before or after and somehow shared in the travel/lodging costs, but I'm not sure how PWG's finances are right now. Not being able to secure a single venue and splitting the show up for BoLA on top of getting enough top talent just makes PWG looks bad. I know they constantly have to outdo themselves each BoLA, but scaling it back down to a field of 16 might help alleviate a lot of problems. Sometimes less truly is more. While I'm a huge PWG support and fan and will continue to support their product and have no fears that even a year from now I can find a good PWG show to attend, you have to worry about the future of the company. Considering that the symbol of PWG itself, Super Dragon, is now injured, out of shape, and aging…well it just seems ironic. PWG is far from dead my friends, but they're going to need to circle the wagons and get their business plan together in a hurry to move ahead.

The one saving grace however is that if PWG can rise out of this I believe they may be able to expand their sphere of influence even further. With the DVD nationwide release on the way and a great 5th Year Anniversary show this Sunday that I am actually very much looking forward to (for the first time in months) as well as the promise of ASW7 with potential visits from some DG guys, I think PWG might be turning a corner and on their way to an upswing. To be honest the next two shows are going to be very telling of PWG's future and if they can manage to bring even more diverse talent to this year's BoLA then maybe they made the right decision after all. I'd rather have a hot chick 2 hours late for our date, than her ugly BFF right on time. F**k it, I'd probably rather have both an hour late and split the difference. I'm hardcore.

Samuel Berman : Still in business? Absolutely. Undeniably the number two Independent company? Probably not. CHIKARA had already been staking its claim at the second spot for a while, and given that PWG has had so many issues as of late, the gap seems to be closing at an alarming rate. All that said, PWG will limp through the end of the year by hook or by crook on reputation alone. Hell, if IWA Mid-South can make it through 500 shows, PWG (whose issues seem to be star-crossed injuries and no-shows rather than mismanagement and general organizational stupidity) can certainly make it through 2008.

Ryan Byers : No. The fact that several performers booked for an independent wrestling show are unable to make the show due to other commitments does not mean that the promotion running the show is having financial difficulties. It just means that the wrestlers the promotion was interested in booking are busy . . . nothing more and nothing less.

Ari Berenstein : I think the whole talent being pushed back reasoning for delaying the tournament is pretty believable. I don't detect any bullshit on this one, although you never know. I haven't heard any issues about money problems and their crowds are very loyal. I think PWG still has a lot going for it and once they smooth out their world title issue at the fifth anniversary show they can look to gain back a lot of the momentum they lost in the Spring thanks to Tornado's injury. So no, I don't see PWG going anywhere and I think PWG did the right thing by pushing back BoLA to get the right talent and the right draws to the show. It will only help them to sell more DVDs to get this talent on the card and providing excellent (and sellable) matches.

Larry Csonka : Yes, I do. While they have had some talent issues and while the Battle of Los Angeles has been pushed back, I don't see the demise of the company in the short-term future. I haven't heard about a ton of financial issues in the company, like we have with IWA:MS. I think that the company will be fine, they recently released their first DVD through Big Vision, and hopefully they make some money off of that and make some new fans that will check out the other DVD's. I think they'll be fine.

Michael Bauer : Before anything else, I want to personally and publicly thank Bayani for going into as much detail as he did. I asked him to do so because unlike Ring of Honor, the PWG news is not as publicly known. Now, with all hat happy horseshit done, let me answer the question. Personally, I feel like the PWG needs to change how they do buisness to stay a viable business. And I believe it got asked earlier this month on another edition of Buy or Sell, but they need to stop piggy backing off of Ring of Honor's schedule and book talent for an entire weekend to do Battle of Los Angeles or any show. For every reason Bayani stated before, it becomes a very risky proposition to rely on wrestlers to compete for two days on the East Coast, then fly to the West Coast and expect them to compete at 100% after all the travel and beating themselves up prior. It's kinda like two years ago, asking for a TNA Wrestler to make sure he is back in Florida for their Pay Per View after doing shows for Ring of Honor when he chance of snow storms could make travel difficult. The difference is, TNA is bigger than RoH, PWG isn't.

How successful will the two shows in Canada be for Ring of Honor?

Samuel Berman : I don't know how to quantify this, but let's just say "really fucking successful". The crowds will be amongst the biggest and most raucous in ROH history and the markets will quickly prove to be major ones for the company. If the reported pre-sale ticket numbers for Toronto are any indication, ROH may have found another market to rival Chicago and Philadelphia for the second home after New York City.

Ryan Byers : I suppose that depends on how you define "success." I would imagine that the company will be able to draw just as many fans as they would in any new US market, but even that might be deemed a failure and lose money given that the promotion will be incurring additional expenses in getting their roster and equipment across the border.

Ari Berenstein : ROH in Canada is going to be very successful There is a lot of buzz about these shows (one in July, one in November) and I think not only is ROH going to attract a lot more than 36 customers, but there are going to be a ton of fans in attendance who always wanted to go to an ROH show but never were able to attend, even in the upper New England area. ROH also has some very viable attractions as far as talent goes. Featuring Kevin Steen and El Generico is a given and main eventing the first show with Steen vs. McGuinness is going to be HOT HOT HOT heat. Steen is going to be welcomed in like a returning hero and if he wins the title then, so much the better. If he LOSES the match and Nigel gets away with one, so much the better—it will help to fuel another rematch down the line. Bottom line, ROH is doing these Canada shows at the right time and I think will reap the benefits in terms of gate and a rabid crowd.

Larry Csonka : I will go with mildly successful. I do not think they will flop like most seem to or hope for them to, but I also do not think that they will be OMG THESE SHOWS SOLD ELEVENTY HUNDRED TICKETS! I think it will be a middle of the road deal, with enough success to come back and hopefully grow the company's presence there.

Michael Bauer : I think the Canada shows will be crazy, especially with Kevin Steen getting a title shot in his home conutry. I expect near sellouts for both shows, but the second show will all depend on the first one. If Tornoto has an amazing show, which is tough being the first of the double shot, then Montral will clearly do just as well, if not better. Plus, it can't hurt to have the added attraction of Lance Storm.

Bayani Domingo : I'm assuming a little more than 3 dozen people will show up. I'll go as far as to say that they will be somewhere above the attendance for the West Coast shows but below the usual Mid-West shows they put on. Put me at around 500 to 600 and I'd say that seems right. Remember, wrestling is still big in Canada and despite there not being a whole lot of Indy feds in the Great White North, I could see RoH doing fairly well with the right promotion and timing.

Will anyone be able to defeat Nigel McGuinness for the RoH World Title this year and when will they do it?

Ryan Byers : Sadly, the events of this week's episode of Monday Night Raw killed my joke prediction that CM Punk would cash in his Money in the Bank briefcase and beat Nigel sometime in September. However, I would guess that Nigel has to drop the championship at some point in 2008. Though he's not quite as bad as some of his detractors make him out to be, his reign has failed to light the world on fire, and it would be a good idea to transition the championship elsewhere before the promotion cools off further and loses its reputation as being THE place to go for must see in-ring main events. I fully support Claudio for champion come Final Battle.

Ari Berenstein : Nigel has had a long title run already, but I don't think he is beating Danielson's fifteen month run. He'll have to settle for the third longest reign behind Samoa Joe and Bryan Danielson. So yes, Nigel is going to lose the title before the end of the year and there are three ways it's going to happen. Kevin Steen could take the title in Canada either on July 25th or November 7th. I'm thinking if Steen wins it's like the latter date. Nigel still has business he can do on PPV in the meantime (with Danielson's challenge for a title shot being the big program there). Danielson's road to the title shot will take place on the eight and ninth PPV's, likely taped in the fall, which means if he wins his contender challenges and Nigel is still champion he should be in line for a title shot to be taped on PPV right at the end of 2008 (for release in 2009, think what happened with McGuinness and his title win which occurred in Oct. '07 but wasn't shown until January 2008). Claudio Castagnoli, by virtue of his win over Danielson, should be in line for his second title opportunity against McGuinness and I think that it could occur either once again in New York (August 2nd) or maybe in Philadelphia (early September and this would likely be right on target for a PPV taping). Either way, all signs point to McGuinness losing the title sometime near or just before the turning of the calendar book and to one of his three top challengers that have been developed all year long.

Larry Csonka : This is a hard one for me. I could see Kevin Steen finally winning the big belt, but part of me thinks he will end up with tag team gold and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. So right now I will say that Nigel survives the year as champion.

Michael Bauer : First and foremost, Nigel McGuiness will lose the Ring of Honor Title before Final Battle. The reason being that there really just aren't a lot of people left for Nigel to face. The only people he has not beaten right now are Jimmy Jacobs, The Briscoes, and anyone not worthy of a title shot anyway. I can see Kevin Steen coming close, but missing in Canada. I can see the same of Claudio on Pay Per View. And there is no way in hell he loses the belt in New York City in August. I have a gut feeling that he will be the third person to ever hold the title for a full year, losing sometime in September or October to Claudio on his third attempt. If not, then 100% guarenteed to be Kevin Steen in Montreal on November 7th, which is not just his home country, but his hometown.

Bayani Domingo : Final Battle. I bet that we'll see a title change no later than that. I actually think they're building up Kevin Steen quite nicely, but I just don't see them giving him the strap. They won't even give him a Tag Title reign, let alone the biggest belt in the company. at this point I really believe either Brent Albright, Claudio, or Tyler Black will be the choice and I think Tyler stands as good a chance as anyone since he's easily booked and has a great chance to break out and be the member of AoTF that leaves the group and feuds with them alone with Aries. Besides, I just don't think Nigel has reverberated with the fans the way that some had thought he would and to be honest he's one of the least interesting RoH champs they've had in quite a while. I don't know what it is but I just can't see people talking about Nigel McGuinness with awe and reverence in 5 or 10 years from now the way people will with guys like Joe, Danielson, or even Aries. RoH is fortunate to have such a great roster of regulars and with a good Main Event scene they can pretty much pick and choose who to crown next.

Samuel Berman : Conventional wisdom might say Kevin Steen in Toronto or Claudio Castagnoli in Detroit, but I think that Nigel will get past both men in close, competitive affairs. If I were a betting man, I'd actually put my money on Tyler Black winning the strap sometime in September or October, probably at one of the Glory By Honor VII shows.

At the halfway point, who is the 2008 Breakout of Independent wrestling and who is the next Breakout Star?

Ari Berenstein : Tyler Black is obviously one of the names that first comes to mind. ROH gave him a big break and a sustained "breakout" push throughout the first half of 2008, matching him up against Danielson, putting him in tag title matches and then the ROH World Title match against McGuinness that was shown on PPV. They pushed him until fans had no choice but to accept him as a good wrestler and someone who could become the true future of the company. Whether or not that becomes the reality of Black's future in ROH remains to be seen, but it can't be denied that the first half of 2008 in ROH has also been Black's best moments in his wrestling career. Outside of Black I believe Rhett Titus may be one of the more unlikely breakout stories of the next half year and no I didn't just lose my mind. His character is undeniably entertaining and he is more than competent in the ring. He is being given a good opportunity right now to show off his "Addicted to Love" character in this program with Delirious and Haze and I think it could be a very entertaining love triangle. Brent Albright is a very likely candidate for "break out" status, but it depends on whether or not he can rise to the occasion and really connect with the ROH crowd. He's shown signs of charisma and the connection to the crowd before, but can he do it over the long haul? This new monster babyface run will be the test to see if that can happen.

Larry Csonka : Tyler Black is my breakout star this year with little to no hesitation. As I will mention next, his match with Nigel put him over the top as well as an all around great 2008 thus far. As for the next breakout star, I really don't know. No one is jumping out at me right now other than Black, so I will abstain from this portion of the question.

Michael Bauer : The difference between Tyler Black and my pick is that Tyler Black had some nationside exposure thanks to Wrestling Society X. I'm going with Erick Stevens as my pick for a number of reasons. First and foremost, Erick Stevens does not look like a secondary member of anything like last year. Tyler Black, despite everything, I still think of as Jimmy Jacobs' right hand man. Secondly, Erick Stevens has racked up bigger victories in the past six months than Tyler Black. Like it or not, it is true. Stevens has beaten Bryan Danielson not once, but TWICE CLEANLY! Tyler Black has lost to the Dragon twice. Stevens also holds a clean pinfall victory over Austin Aries. And while Black is a two time Tag Champion, Erick Stevens did have an impressive little FIP Title Reign, beating both of the fore-mentioned names. Lastly, Stevens just concluded one of the most brutal singles feuds I can remember in some time with Roderick Strong in RoH and has one more match in FIP to fully finish it off. As for who is next, it is a pretty tough call. There looks to be some guys on the tip of the iceberg in CHIKARA, so it will probably come out of there, but I just don't know who.

Bayani Domingo : I think most people would agree it would have to be Tyler Black. The guy has just had his stock rise in such a short time and he's poised to become the Aries-like breakout star of this year if he breaks away from AoTF or ends up replacing Jimmy as the leader ala Gen Next. I would have loved to have put Human Tornado in this spot but the injury coupled with his veteran status work against him.

Samuel Berman : The breakout star in Ring of Honor is pretty clearly Tyler Black (who did an interview at The Cool Kids' Table by the way). Outside of ROH, though, I've been exceedingly impressed with the work of Vin Gerard in CHIKARA and Michael Elgin in IWA Mid-South. Neither guy will get the press that Black or Erick Stevens will, but they're both quietly putting together impressive years with a number of good showings. Over in Japan, BxB Hulk has had a truly tremendous 2008, though sadly one that most American fans haven't been able to watch.

Ryan Byers : I have a feeling that everybody else involved in this column will say either "Erick Stevens" or "Tyler Black." Those guys have legitimate claims to the honors, but I'll be different for the sake of being different and give the nod to a young man by the name of Timothy Donst. Donst isn't at the point where he's going to be main eventing in any indy promotion this year, but he's been a perfectly acceptable rookie underdog in the upper midcard mix of CHIKARA, and I can only see his profile continuing to rise in that promotion throughout 2008. As far as the next breakout is concerned, I would be amazed if we don't see a certain Mr. Brodie Lee "graduate" from CHIKARA to Ring of Honor in the next six months. I have a feeling that he will do quite well for himself there.

At the halfway point, what is the 2008 Match of the Year in Independent wrestling?
Editor's Note: For this question, we did include Final Battle Weekend from December 29 and 30 in New York City.

Larry Csonka : I most likely haven't seen as much Indy stuff as my counter parts have, but right now I will go with Tyler Black vs. Nigel McGuinness from the Take No Prisoners PPV. An excellent match that literally made Black a star in one night.

Michael Bauer : Well, I was at both Nigel vs. Aries taped for Pay Per View and at Nigel vs. Danielson at the Sixth Anniversary Show. For me, both matches had its flaws. Aries vs. Nigel has the sick bump only five minutes into the match were Nigel was legit out of it. I even remember talking to him the next night after Final Battle as I went to wish him well and he couldn't recall what happened for the entire match. Nigel vs. Danielson had the bullshit of the needed restart after Nigel went full blown heel turn. But I'm going to put bias aside and say it was neither one of those two. Wow, I can't do that with a straight face. I'm going with Nigel vs. Aries for this one. The match seriously had the crowd eating out of its hand, with everyone torn as to who would come out with the victory. Nigel's reign truly began on that night with a gutty performance after the worst bump I have ever seen live. Not to be forgotten: Speed Muscle vs. Steen-erico from the Dragon Gate Challenge and Age of the Fall vs. Jay Briscoe and Austin Aries at the Hammerstein debut.

Bayani Domingo : I actually have no idea. I don't feel right about voting for a match I haven't seen yet and so far I haven't been up on much RoH this year. I hear so far anything that involves tag teams, Nigel, Danielson, and Black has been a candidate. Hell, AmDrag took a dump the other day and it's already gotten considerable "SoTY" votes already on the RoH boards. I guess a lot of people liked the pacing and the stiffness. If I had to pick from one of the matches I've seen then it probably ends up coming out of PWG. I don't think anyone else would agree with me but I'll probably have to go with Steenerico vs Strong/Evans at DDT4. It was probably the best and most emotionally built up match in PWG even though there were some others that were more technically proficient and cleaner, but in this case the surprise element of Strong/Evans winning puts it up there with me. I'm sure there were better RoH matches, but since I haven't seen them I can't really vote. Maybe at year's end I'll finally be up on things.

Samuel Berman : Pretty clearly Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson from ROH's 6th Anniversary Show. It's easily the match with the deepest story and most nuance, while being almost flawlessly worked. To put it in perspective, it's the best match between the two, including their 2007 classic from the Driven Pay-Per-View. Other matches worth noting are Shingo & BxB Hulk's GHC Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Title win against Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino from January, Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong from FIP Redefined, and the No Ropes Barbed Wire Match between Jimmy Jacobs and BJ Whitmer from IWA Mid-South.

Ryan Byers : Does the Ultimate Warrior's return against Orlando Jordan count? Seriously, though, go watch the CHIKARA King of Trios finals match between BLK Out and Lince Dorado, Incognito, & El Pantera. It's a fun hybrid of American and lucha libre styles, and the BLK Out trio were all AWESOME heels on that particular evening. They were actually working the crowd in order to get a reaction, which is great to see on an indy scene in which many people work very hard but more need to learn how to work smart.

Ari Berenstein : t's down to either Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries from the ROH Rising Above tapings (taped in 2007, first shown in Jan. 2008) and McGuinness vs. Danielson from the ROH Sixth Anniversary Show. Right now the match against Aries has the nod just by a slight hair, but I do have to go back and watch each match over again just to be sure. Both matches were just fantastic and being there live I can say each one had tremendous live reaction and each had a hell of drama and emotion behind it.

At the halfway point, who is the 2008 Wrestler of the Year for Independent wrestling?

Michael Bauer : Nigel McGuiness is the trendy pick as he has been the Ring of Honor champion all year long and it is very hard to disagree. Nigel has beaten every person who he has been set to face, from Danielson to Aries to Claudio to Steen and he just does not seem poised to slow down and somebody builds that brick wall for him to run into. If I had to go further into it, my top 5 would be Nigel, Jimmy Jacobs, Kevin Steen, Roderick Strong (yes, believe it), and Tyler Black.

Bayani Domingo : I'm going with a tie here and calling it Steen-Generico for WoTY. Thus far they've done far more with far less than anyone else. They are over in the two biggest Indy companies in the country and never fail to perform as a tag team with possibly more support nationwide than any other team in the country. Sure AoTF gets more press, but Steen-erico delivers each and every time out and have just done such a great job with the little pushes they've been getting and are far too under appreciated in my book. The fact that they have YET to win the RoH tag titles is a crime and actually sours my opinion of the company. Let Steen-erico reign down on those emos.

Samuel Berman : Most will probably say Nigel McGuinness and I'm hard-pressed to disagree. Nigel has put on classic matches left and right all the while working to overshadow his injury-laden end to 2007. I'm not sure that even with his fantastic run that ROH fans will ever hold him in the same esteem that they hold Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe or CM Punk, but McGuinness is doing everything he can to carve out his own niche as a pillar of Ring of Honor. Others deserving consideration include Shingo Takagi for his fantastic year in Dragon Gate, Suwama for taking the ball and running with it in All-Japan, and "American Dragon" Bryan Danielson for his continued excellence throughout the world of Independent wrestling.

Ryan Byers : Jimmy Jacobs. His matches occasionally turn me off because they have a tendency by becoming Brisco-esque "Can you top this?" battles as opposed to bouts that actually contain proper build and stories. However, when it comes to telling a story OUTSIDE of the ring, nobody in independent wrestling has been better than Jimmy in the past year. Despite what the commentary during ROH's first year may have claimed, it's the personalities that hook more fans in to pro wrestling than the workratezzzz, and I have a feeling that Jacobs' evolution, unique persona, and promos have kept many indy fans who otherwise would have tuned out glued to the ROH product.

Ari Berenstein : Nigel McGuinness, who has been involved in almost all of the most dramatic and most action packed ROH World Title matches during this year. He has been absolutely tremendous in this new (old) role as heel asshole champion whom everyone pays to see defeated and yet somehow escapes with his title at the end of the match. The quality of wrestling, the crowd reactions and the drama of great storylines in and out of the ring against such wrestlers as Austin Aries, Bryan Danielson, Tyler Black and Kevin Steen should speak for itself. He is the constant involved in those matches and thus the man who should get the most credit for delivering in the main event spot of Ring of Honor time and time again.

Larry Csonka : I will go with Tyler Black again. The kid is on fire with great matches and big wins in ROH. The future is so bright for this kid it is amazing, and the pressure isn't getting to him at all. He has stepped up his game, is constantly improving and out of anyone right now, he has me interested and wanting to buy DVD's, and I don't part with my money easily.