My Stolen Take On 08.05.08: The CM Punk Title Reign
Posted by James Thomlison on 08.05.2008
I hijack a column and tear through an IWC darling. It isn't going to be pretty...
Yes, I stole something from the boss, sue me! Fact is I had something to say and since I don't have my own column around here anymore, I needed to piggyback my way into a good rant. Some of you – if you follow things like WOTW and Fact or Fiction – have heard some of this before, but I felt the need to revisit and expound upon a serious problem I am having with a particular part of the current booking.
I would of course be talking about the booking of CM Punk – not only leading up to – but DEFINITELY including his current title reign. It's been utter shit. I've heard the reasoning and the excuses and the goals, and I'm not buying any of it. So I figured I would take a look back at how things have developed, and tell you exactly why I have hated just about each and every moment of it. So, to help me with this, I decided we would go back in the form of THE CM PUNK TIMELINE!
WrestleMania 24, April 1st, 2008
CM Punk, after gaining some momentum heading into the big show, wins the fourth ever Money In The Bank Ladder match, gaining ownership of the briefcase and ensuring himself a title match anytime, anywhere, anyplace. Things seemed to be on track for the straight-edge up and comer. But then, things didn't go so well after that night. Punk couldn't seem to get a win; he was losing clean to guys like JBL and The Miz. No offense to Miz, but you can read that again if you'd like. CM Punk lost clean to The Miz. This is potentially our next champion. This is a guy who is supposed to be believable as a major threat to a major title. Why can't he pick up a win?
RAW, June 30th, 2008
RAW opens, and eventually after JR speaks our friend Edge is here (that is an ENTIRELY different booking rant on its own so I'll spare you). He wants us all to know that he's the man, RAW sucks, and nobody will ever have the pleasure of dealing with him on Mondays again. One problem, Big Dave is now on RAW and in the building AND pissed! He comes down, gives Edge a beatdown worthy of Edge not being on television for a month, and leaves him there. BUT WAIT! Punk is out and he is in a hurry! Ring the bell fuckers! Hits the quick GTS and WE HAVE A NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION! WOOOOOOOOOO! A very unexpected turn and a nice way to start the show (and also, very different than the norm). Now, I don't blame Punk for winning this way. Edge did the same and that is exactly what the MITB contract is designed to do; allow you to capitalize on the ultimate opportunity (hello, Cole) to win gold. But what now? Well we'll find out soon, because JBL has stepped up and we are getting his first title defense!
Big fat spectacular pile of crap that was. Sure Punk got in some offense, but at the end of the day nothing he did was enough to put him away. He needed JBL to be distracted by 23 guys on the outside in order to sneak in the GTS to get the win. Okay, I can live with that. He hasn't started strong but there is time. The opening segment was enough EPIC WIN (you love it, you know it) to garnish a pass. We could only wait and see where it goes from here.
RAW, July 7th, 2008
CM Punk interrupts Vickie Guerrero because well, he's just here to gloat and done listening to her. This ended up being a big circle jerk. Did CM Punk get some mic time in? Absolutely. More than I thought even. But it was mostly him in the background listening to seemingly *more important* guys in JBL, Cena, Batista, etc. He consented to the Fatal Four Way, and headed off. His night was not done though. Snitsky was in a mood, and it wasn't his fault. So CM Punk went ahead and defeated Snitsky. Let me put some things in perspective for you. 1. CM Punk got a victory over Snitsky. THAT's doing a lot for your credibility as champ. Oh, and also:
2. This was on shortly after or around 10 p.m. (I originally said 9; I meant the middle of the show just misspoke), because the main event was clearly more important. Guess what people. KOFI KINGSTON VS. CHARLIE HASS was higher on the card. Cena, JBL, Kane, and Big Dave were all in the main event.
Yes… things are certainly going much better this week /sarcasm.
RAW, July 14th, 2008
This week, we have some more serious competition, because our champ will be facing Kane! He got in some offense, but not much. Kane certainly looked like the more dominant one. BUT, CM Punk managed to retain when sneaking into the ring at the count of 9 and winning by default via count out. Yeah, looking real strong there. So maybe the champ would get away with a victory and not look like such a puss this week, right? Of course not, silly. Kane immediately started to beat the fuck out of him (to which he could do nothing), and he actually had to be SAVED by Batista. This was of course followed by CM Punk sneezing in the wrong way, pissing off Batista and leading to a massive Batistabomb which left Punk laid out in the ring dead. Yeah, I'm REALLY buying that Punk can beat him on Sunday!
Again, I will note this was in the 10 p.m. area (again, middle of the show, misspoke), NOT main event area. No, no. We had far more pertinent things on the card like Jamie Noble vs. Snitsky. Cena and JBL were in the main event. Main players anyone?
WWE Great American Bash, July 20th, 2008
Okay, so to this point Punk has done exactly dick and squat to have me believe in any way that he will retain here. But it's a PPV, perhaps now is his time to shine. Perhaps he's just been dealt a bad hand lately; I can work with that. Now I give the WWE credit here. Punk got in some SERIOUS offense, and actually controlled most of the match. Things are looking up. Perhaps I was wrong about our young, new champion. One problem. again no matter what Punk did, it just wasn't enough to put the challenger away. He simply could not get the job done. Surely it couldn't get any worse right?
WRONG. After nine minutes of Punk offense that can't put Dave away, we get ONE SPINEBUSTER, killing all momentum I thought he had built and I honestly thought "well, we're about 15 seconds and one Batistabomb away from the new champ". That's how poorly Punk had been booked. I literally thought there was no way he could beat Dave; not only that, Dave was about to end it with TWO MOVES REQUIRING 30 SECONDS OF TIME. Our champion was lucky though, as he was again saved via Kane interference resulting in a double DQ and him retaining.
Yup, I'm really buying Punk as champ now.
I will again note this was middle of the card, and guys like Cena, JBL, HHH, and Edge all got top billing. Boy, the most important title on the flagship show and virtually the most notable and featured belt in the entire company still can't break NEXT TO LAST on a PPV.
RAW, July 21st, 2008
Wait, wait, wait. You mean CM Punk is actually going to main event? It's finally here? The WWE – even after making him look like a bitch the last month – is going to give him a shot! Could we be seeing change!?
Of course not. Of course Kane has to come and beat Dave down first hand. Of course Punk has to ask the beaten up guy if he wants the shot. Of course he wants it. Of course Punk again gets in a ton of offense for most of the match. AND OF COURSE DESPITE THE CIRCUMSTANCES HE CANNOT PUT DAVE AWAY. Of course at the end of the match Batista hits like two moves and Punk is done and about to lose his title KILLING ALL MOMENTUM AND CREDIBILITAY. I don't believe in any way Punk can beat Batista, and I don't believe in any way Punk can kick out of the Batistabomb coming. BUT OF COURSE JBL HAS TO SAVE PUNK BY ATTACKING BATISTA, THUS AGAIN CREATING A DQ allowing Punk to retain.
As if that wasn't enough, the champion scours out the ring because the WWE – despite giving him the main event – would rather focus on the DREAM MATCHUP! Of Cena vs. Batista to end the show.
Anyone else seeing a fucking ridiculous bullshit pattern here yet? Or no, still just me?
RAW, July 28th, 2008
I'm going to be brief here, because there is no need to explain. This week epitomized my feelings. Punk …….stop transmission……
Punk had a match AGAIN around the 10 p.m. timeframe, leaving a women's match and a main event featuring Cena, JBL, Batista, and Kane; not to mention some Jericho/HBK continuity overshadowing things.
…..resume transmission….. Punk took on William Regal who – and let's be honest – just beat the fuck out of him for about 10 minutes no questions asked. Kicked his ass up and down the ring and Punk snuck a GTS out of nowhere. Welcome to Mr. Regal's Bitchland, population CM Punk.
RAW, August 4th, 2008
The champion will finally be in a position to do something right? No! He must face two guys getting more face time and higher placement on the card! At the same time! What ever will happen! Oh! He'll get his ass kicked for eight minutes! Which is exactly what happened. He then got in 45 seconds of offense on both men (after they kicked the crap out of each other over who'd get the pin), but really, it didn't matter. He got his ass beat, and then – by fluke or not – got pinned. He now goes on to face JBL and even though I know he'll win, I don't buy it.
And a big fat italicized reminder that AGAIN this was half way in, focusing the main event on other people and other storylines. At the end of the night did anyone give a shit about Punk match at SummerSlam? Or was the focus the new tag champs who are the dream match? Exactly.
My Stolen Take On: CM Punk's Championship Reign
It's sad really. I'd like to address a couple of things in closing.
First and foremost, I like Punk. I really do. I like the idea of Punk as champion. I really do. It's fresh and new and not the norm, and because I am familiar with Punks work before the WWE, I know he can pull it off. I wish him success. I in fact, don't blame him for the booking. The problem is, the booking isn't what's on TV every week, it's the wrestler adhering to the booking. I don't blame him for what's happening, but the fact that it's him on television every week doesn't do him any favors. Bottom line, before anyone gets defensive and ancey, I LIKE CM PUNK AND LIKE THE IDEA OF HIM AS CHAMP.
Secondly, I know. People keep telling me how he's being booked this way on purpose and we're not supposed to think he can win and it's all leading to this grand snapping-of-punk heel turn in which he loses it and it turns into the greatest thing ever. I keep hearing how it's this "super slow turn being gracefully and beautifully orchestrated". Well, that burn has been almost five months now and I am done.
Finally, I end with this. I have said this before and I will say it again. I WANT a Great, credible and believable champion. I CAN DEAL WITH a fighting and make it work champion. I will SETTLE FOR an underdog champion.
What I have now is a champion that doesn't apply to any of those. This isn't even a Rey Mysterio push, it's a David Arquette push. What I'm getting now is a guy being booked like a total pussy and being made everyone on the planets bitchboy. When he's not doing that, he's getting saved by run-ins and DQs. He looks like total shit and I don't believe in any way he can beat any contender and even if he does, I don't find it credible because he's been thrown to the fucking wolves while holding the most important title in the company. Not only that, he can't even get himself a main event or a main focus storyline; they continue to focus on the other main players and keep him in the background. If my friend asked me tomorrow why they should buy SummerSlam, I would list at least three matches and two other reasons before I even remembered Punk was on the card. Nice.
I said to someone a couple few weeks ago I might change my mind based on what they do. Well, here we are a couple few weeks later and nothing has changed. None of it matters now, even if it turns into the greatest heel turn and most fantastic championship run ever. I don't care if they turn the ship. I don't care if it becomes the next Attitude Era. If it happens, I'll give them their due, but this will never be forgotten.
No matter how it turns out, at least for the first six weeks, the end will never justify the means. Way to go booking team.
Fuck, even Shannon won't disagree with me, and you all know what means... or at least, 3 of you do.
Can't wait for SummerSlam, can you? See you around, kids.
dude take a chill pill. why can't people just watch and see what happens?
Posted By: Guest#9621 (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:15 PM
Both Punk Snitsky & Punk Kane were at 10 pm.
You're just another ROH chronic masturbator sad your favorite stroke boy's not getting the 06 Cena push
Posted By: EEEW (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:23 PM
I've been reading 411 for a long time and I can honestly say that this abortion of a column represents rock bottom for this website. It's unbelievably thick-headed, short-sighted and just plain wrong.
Have their been some mis-steps with Punk? Sure. Have there been as many as you say? No chance. You keep harping on Punk's mid-show matches on Raw, but WWE has been putting stars in that slot for years. It's basically the first main event slot on any given Raw.
Secondly, you just make shit up. Punk only got 2 minutes offense in against JBL and Jericho? Really? Because Punk absolutely dominated the last half of that match. And furthermore, who cares who got the most offense in? For a 10-minute, 3 way match, that match rocked. It made all 3 guys look better in the long run, though that doesn't help your pathetic point, so it's better just to make shit up.
I understand you want a credible champion. Well, Mr. Thomlinson, your readers want nothing more than an informative,thoughtful, possibly even entertaining column to read. Unfortunately, you're not capable of that.
Posted By: What (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:26 PM
CM Punk, after gaining some momentum heading into the big show, wins the third ever Money In The Bank Ladder match uh that would be 4th mitb
Posted By: check facts (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:27 PM
Completely 100% honest to god, holy crap why did that just happen, AGREE with you.
Like you said, I love Punk. He's been one of my favorite wrestlers for god knows how long now and even though he was losing mostly and this, that, and the other...Punk winning the belt was still damn awesome.
But when bullshit like this and the stupid booking is making this reign worse than Mysterio's reign, it pisses me off. It's sad that Samoa Joe has the better title reign under his belt, even though it was two years too fucking late on that. Punk was right place, right time. WWE wants a more family friendly audience and wants less drugs...CM PUNK IS IT! But nope...we have to stick with Dave Fuckin' Batista and John Cena...same ol' shit, different day.
Course they're not going to try something new...as long as it brings the money in, they'll do it whichever way brings in the most money.
Thanks, now i'm pissed off. Not at Punk, but stupid fucking shit.
Oh well, least this will be the best comment you'll get on the situation.
Posted By: Kevin F. (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:32 PM
I think you expect too much.
...when Edge won the first MiTB he got OWNED by Cena at the Royal Rumble.
...when RVD won the title, whether through other circumstances or not, he barely held it a month.
And Kennedy... well, uhm ANYWAY.
Point is- it's ALWAYS been the case that getting "elevated" by winning the MiTB makes you WAY out of your depth. Then you drop the belt and start working your way back up.
I'm still lukewarm to Punk, and I'm NOT anti-ROH, but he's been given a half push for like forever. The guy was barely keeping up with Chavo six months ago, and now you want him to beat Batista clean? Really? He's out of his depth... he's SUPPOSED to be.
Let's be clear-- there's NO WAY Punk is main eventing WM25. ZERO PERCENT CHANCE. I would expect him to begin looking legit by about a year from now. This is nothing more than a test run.
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:34 PM
"This isn't even a Rey Mysterio push, it's a David Arquette push."
I agree 100%. No one has put it that way, and it just shows how pathetic this whole situation is.
Posted By: Scott NM (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:50 PM
Rey Mysterio got pinned clean almost every week during his reign. If you can't see the difference between that and Punk, suicide may be a good idea for you.
Posted By: Guest#2162 (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 03:51 PM
JT, man, normally I agree with you, but the 9pm match is normally the semi-main on Raw, harking back to the old days when Raw is War and The War Zone were considered 2 separate shows in Interactive Program Guides. Something to do with ratings and the way they are counted, I don't remember the exact reasoning. Still, HHH has had that match a few times, as has Cena, so you KNOW it's not considered midcard even if it is in the middle of the show.
Posted By: Chris Lansdell (Registered) on August 05, 2008 at 03:57 PM
I've enjoyed his title reign.
Posted By: Josh (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 04:02 PM
I've rather enjoyed his run too. Maybe he'll win. Maybe he'll lose. Maybe he'll turn heel. There's always something interesting going on in his title matches. I'm not going to presume I can speak for everyone, but his reign interests me far more than that of super cena, who beat everyone, cleanly, constantly. His reign was bored me to death. Punk's run I think has been fun.
Posted By: Guest#8262 (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 04:09 PM
I've rather enjoyed his run too. Maybe he'll win. Maybe he'll lose. Maybe he'll turn heel. There's always something interesting going on in his title matches. I'm not going to presume I can speak for everyone, but his reign interests me far more than that of super cena, who beat everyone, cleanly, constantly. His reign was bored me to death. Punk's run I think has been fun.
Posted By: Guest#8129 (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 04:10 PM
JT,
You've made a few errors here: Punk won the 4th MitB, WM was March 31st, although I admit they don't detract from your point. Punk's reign hasn't been great and his treatment since WM screams "midcard".
BUT - the top of the hour slot on Raw has always been for the semi-main event. It's the main event of the first hour. The three big slots on Raw are the opening, the top of the hour, and the end. Everything else is undercard. Punk is doing ok here - Orton and HHH have normally had work-outs here while their contender's fight it out in the main event.
And at PPVs, WWE have tried to separate out the title matches, in order to give the crowd a break.
By all means, criticize the fact that Punk has only cleanly pinned Snitsky in the last six weeks and isn't getting enough mic time, but his place on the shows is fine.
Posted By: Luke (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 04:22 PM
James, I agree that he hasn't been booked very strong, but people aren't going to buy him as champ without a feeling out period.
Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 04:38 PM
punk won the 4th money in the bank... kennedy won the 3rd
Posted By: blahh (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 04:38 PM
JT: And remember, stay positive!
Posted By: Torture (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:00 PM
Yeah, well you know what? C.M. Punk sucks. I'm fine with this guy getting booked like this because it makes me want to keep tuning in to see them treat him like the joke he is. His offense is terrible and weak looking, and don't even get me started on his soft physique. In due time, the belt will be back on a credible champion, like JBL, Cena, Jericho or Batista.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:02 PM
As much as I like Punk, I can't argue with anything said in this column.
The best thing about Punk's reign has been watching all of his apologists come out of the woodwork frothing at the mouth trying to defend it.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:08 PM
you are a negative nancy. punk was getting a great reaction from the crowd last night. Before last night, every pop he got was luke warm. the more the odds are stacked against him, the more people will cheer for him and the more substance is added to his character. Honestly, you dont bring a mid carder up and just demolish all of his challengers, he was on the mid card for a reason
Posted By: bone (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:16 PM
I think that Vince is sticking it to the IWC bed wetters by making Punk look as bad as he does. It's funny how people on here are actually disagreeing with this column thinking that what they're doing with Punk is the right course of action.
When will you all realize that Punk will NEVER turn heel? The second someone on the Internet suggests a particular fan favorite turn, Vince will go the other way just to screw with you.
Posted By: Ryder (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:17 PM
I will agree that CM Punk has not been made to look like the biggest, best champion of all times. Although, I can't agree with him being David Arquette level of champion...that's beyond asinine... Three things...
1. While there may be a argument made for the quality of opponents (in order: Edge, JBL, Snitsky, Kane, Batista, Batista, KOR William Regal, JBL & Jericho), with the exception of Snitsky, its been fairly solid. All guys that have been featured regularly and most of them in high profile ways.
2. The more stable argument is how he has faired in these matches. (in order: Win by Pin, Win by Pin, Win by Pin, Win By Countout, Double DQ, Win by DQ, Win by Pin, Lose by pin [in handicap match]). Thats a record of 6-1-1 (with the one loss being a handicap match) while being champion. He may not have won in the most convincing fashion, but the record books will not say "JBL distracted by 9 guys to allow Punk to get the pin".
3. Match placement has got to be your most ridiculous point. (Hell lets do it in order again: Beginning of show, End of show, 10PM, 10PM, 3rd from End of PPV, End of show, 10PM, 10PM) Anybody who has watched wrestling for more than a month will tell you that the 10PM timeslot is far more important than the 10:40 spot, it has even been a running joke on this site for who knows how long. Along with the Beginning and End of the show, 10PM is a crucial slot which sets the show for the last hour (which if I remember correctly is the hour in which more advertising money is made). Since you stole from My Take On, so will I...looking over the 7.28.97 RAW, Mid-show The Tag Team Champions, Stone Cold and Dude Love lost to the Godwinns...Doesnt seem that big, but had Bulldog and Owen on commentary building the biggest feud of the moment. Which match was next? Devon Storm vs. Ace Darling. So according to your thinking Stone Cold, Dude Love, Bulldog, Owen Hart, and even the Godwinns were overshadowed by Devon Storm and Ace Darling, just because their match came on later...wow, just wow.
Posted By: OhComeOn (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:17 PM
don't dismiss Michael The Miz so easily! Not only did he beat Punk cleanly but he also took his moniker. There's a new Chick Magnet in these parts cowpoke!
Posted By: Jake Fury (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:46 PM
Completely. Totally. Lame. Column.
Did you watch the handicap match last night? The audience was totally behind Punk in a big, big way. Everything is fine. Change your diaper and stop crying.
Posted By: MDK (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:48 PM
he won the forth money in the bank ladder match not the third. Edge-1 RVD-2 Mr. Kennedy-3 CM Punk-4
Posted By: RJ (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:49 PM
Dude, the 10PM slot is pretty much considered a main event slot on RAW and has been for years.
Posted By: Carl Pavano (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 05:51 PM
Crybaby's Column!!!
Punk will keep his title at Summerslam and we'll see where it goes after that...
ROH fans will never be happy anyway!!
Posted By: Daffo97 (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 06:10 PM
My god, what a winey topic this is, He has hardly been beaten clean at all, where as Mysterio jobbed pretty much every week.
He had a good showing last night & the crowd were fully behind him, he only lost to a fluke.
Maybe you will change your mind again after he beats JBL clean at Summerslam, but then again maybe you will just piss & moan about something else.
Wrestling fans are idiots sometimes.
Posted By: jbardo (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 06:10 PM
What the fuck do you want dude? Punk struggled to win matches before he cashed in the MITB, is the belt supposed to give him some magic ability to kill any bitch that steps in the ring with him? Punk is not a dominate champion, he's not supposed to kill bitches every week. He's been booked great, he hasn't backed down from a single challenge and he looked superb against Y2J & JBL in that handicap match last night. Face it, Punk is like half of Batista's and Cena's size, he's not going to just fucking steamroll the fuck over them, Jesus fucking Christ.
Posted By: EZMark (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 06:25 PM
You're absolutely, 100% right.
I said before "WWE would be stupid to let Punk win the MITB until he's ready, they should let Jericho take it" but of course, they let Punk win.. jobbing him out AFTER WrestleMania as you pointed out but also, the guy freakin' not only lost to Miz but HE was the one who got pinned in the tag match vs Miz and Morrison for the tag titles with KANE as his partner. Talk about looking like crap, even with Kane he can't win!
CM Punk needed about six months of being established, taking on all comers in hard fought matches against veterans and newcomers alike and winning those matches more ofteh than not toward the end.. THEN cashing in the shot when he's credible with the marks. CM Punk needs a clean, decisive victory over quite a few people to get to that level.. even if he pins JBL at SummerSlam after dominating him for 5 minutes it still will do NOTHING since he already beat JBL. Punk vs Jericho, I could see as not only a great match but also a way to show Punk can handle the main event guys. But, they really have booked him like shit, and there's no getting around it.
This is exactly what I was afraid would happen when they re-did the MITB win at the last minute. Way to go WWE! Another Mysterio to add to the collection of lame duck champions the last three years.
Posted By: Black Scorpion (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 08:15 PM
1. EEEW> 9 p.m. error was changed; I simply misspoke.
2. LANSDELL> I'm with you, but I ask you: So it's okay that he's consistently in what's considered the "Semi" main-event? He's your World Heavyweight Champion on your flagship show.
3. LUKE> He won the 4th MITB instead of his 3rd. Doesn't change the point; I was simply giving backstory, and that has now been changed.
4. OHCOMEONE> My point still remains is that when facing quality guys, his best is simply not enough, and he always "retains" through some sort of outside source (sans a Snitsky burial). Also, if you read my column again, you will what I was bitching about was not that he had a 10 p.m. match, it's that he is *consistently-to-almost-always* 10 p.m. match.
5. EZMARK> I don't need him to steamroll over people; I just need to believe he is capable of beating them. The way he's been handled, I don't believe that.
6. DAFFO97> Contrary to what you believe, not everyone unhappy with his reign is an ROH bot. In fact, while I follow some of what goes on in ROH, I don't watch it - at ALL; and couldn't give two shits where CM Punk came from.
Posted By: James Thomlison (Registered) on August 05, 2008 at 08:55 PM
EEEW opened up his mouth and this bullshit came spewing out:
"You're just another ROH chronic masturbator sad your favorite stroke boy's not getting the 06 Cena push"
Really? "ROH chronic masturbator"??? Count Paul Heyman, one of the best bookers EVER in this business, as one of those ROH types then, as he has said the exact same things.
Now how about you pay attention for a few moments, and maybe you'll learn something that will prevent you from appearing to be such a fuckwit next time you try and chime in on a topic. We're not asking for Punk to get a mega-push. We are, however, asking that the WWE championship (and Punk, since he's the person holding said championship) be treated with more respect. Right now it looks like Punk won on a fluke. I remember feeling the same when Cena beat JBL years back, as Cena took a long period of punishment, only to come back with a surprise FU out of nowhere. It made the new champion look weak right out of the gate. WWE quickly changed that, though, by having him in good competitive matches. Punk has not had that luxury, instead getting destroyed by Batista every week... and for what?
Posted By: Scott B (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 09:00 PM
For you to suggest that a jobber match at 9:30 is more important then a Punk match at 9:00 is ridiculous. If you're not in the main event, you want to be on the top of the hour. Matches at 9:30 aren't more important, they're bathroom breaks before the main event.
Posted By: August (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 09:27 PM
"4. OHCOMEONE> My point still remains is that when facing quality guys, his best is simply not enough, and he always "retains" through some sort of outside source (sans a Snitsky burial). Also, if you read my column again, you will what I was bitching about was not that he had a 10 p.m. match, it's that he is *consistently-to-almost-always* 10 p.m. match."
Thanks for responding, after that wave of backlash, at least you have the courage to come back for more.
Like I said, that was the most stable of your arguments. I agreed that he hasn't been the best champion at all, but if your looking for him to be Super-Cena, that isn't going to happen. About a year after he loses the title, most fans wont even remember who he faced on RAW, let alone care about how it went down.
I think that having CM on the 10pm slot is great. Even if it is an every week sort of thing, it shows that The E has the confidence in him to start off their money making hour (whether its $ for WWE or USA). Just take a look at the others that they have used in that spot, way before Punk was even here. When it comes down to it, Punk may be champion, but Cena, Batista, JBL, Jericho, even Kane get a bigger pop/heat over Punk. While the gap is closing, you won't see Punk in that last spot of the evening regularly until he can match or surpass them in popularity. Don't worry, it will happen, it's just a matter of time.
Posted By: OhComeOn (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 09:28 PM
If the World title match is the opener or 3rd on the card or something then we have something to worry about and with the card having Cena vs. Batista (still may not happen), HiaC and for an apparent internation draw HHH vs. Khali we may actually see that. (I doubt it though)
I'm gonna be positive and say that this will come out with satisfying results. I haven't been feeling the title reign too much but its better then watching HHH (seriously I can barley tune into SmackDown now)
Posted By: Kalvin (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 09:29 PM
Yeah CM Punk reign isn't as bad as Rey's title reign was. I mean at least he had the luxury of getting DQ wins and a win over snitsky and regal in his first month or so as champion. It may not be much but its better then Rey losing to every one except JBL and the Cruiserweight champ. Oh and the second time Rey beat JBL, JBL had 2 matches that night so yeah Rey had ZERO credibility when he was champ. That and being like 5'6.
CM Punk hasn't had the Cena like title regin by winning all the time but at least he's getting something do in the ring. Rey was a bitch, CM Punk is a fighting bitch. Anyway I will be opstimistic but I wouldn't hold my breath on a payoff. Even if it is satisfying like when Punk won the title people will still be pissed
Posted By: Colin (Guest) on August 05, 2008 at 09:37 PM
FINALLY someone had the balls to call a spade a spade, on this site!
That was refreshing to read.
I still find it funny, how people try to say that putting the World CHAMPION is good booking.
People give TNA shit for their booking, and on occasion I do as well, but at least TNA knows what they are doing with the booking of their champions. You will never see JOE reduced to playing a role in the #4 program in the company.
The sad thing about it is that, even when WWE was giving Rey Mysterio the shaft, during his reign, at least they kept the guy in the main event.
Speak the truth and shame the devil
Posted By: scipio2009 (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 12:38 AM
That was a very Michael-Moore-esque slant on the topic, blowing even the mildest perceived slights on Punk into disastrous proportions. Did Regal dominate Punk in his return match? Yeah, because he's the HEEL, and he's supposed to set the pace of the match, hit Punk with everything he's got, and allow Punk to look like a tough motherfucker afterward. Now, I didn't think you'd need ANY such slant to convince anybody that Punk's title "reign" is a meltdown in progress. The past month's worth of Raw broadcasts have been *saturated* with evidence to that statement. Also, you used a whole bunch of words in inaccurate grammatical contexts.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered) on August 06, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Seriously, get your hand off Gabe's wang and just enjoy wrestling. He's been booked fine. Why all of a sudden when he is losing cleanly to guys like Miz and JBL should he be able to beat Kane and Batista cleanly?
Posted By: Guest#8845 (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 01:36 AM
1. TORTURE> Didn't catch that the first time around. LOL. I do what I can man.
2. KANYON> Thank you for agreeing with me in a less-harsh of a way. Your comment said exactly the same thing my column did, only on a scale of "minimally to non-existent levels of disasterous proportion". At the end of the day it has sucked. I just yelled a little louder than you did. Different approaches for different folkses.
3. GUEST#8845> I already addressed the ROH comments in an earlier comment. You should read those before commenting. Thanks for the thoughts, though!
Posted By: James Thomlison (Registered) on August 06, 2008 at 02:27 AM
Yes Ryder, because VINCE MCMAHON makes all of his decisions based on the 411mania.com comments section. Yup, sounds logical to me.
Posted By: Guest#9366 (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 02:33 AM
CM Punk licks donkey balls. He is not a champion at all he should be like the jobbers of yesteryear. He sucks. Embarrasing. And anybody who brings up ROH. Shut the hell up. Indy feds please
Posted By: colin (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 03:50 AM
CM Punk licks donkey balls. He is not a champion at all he should be like the jobbers of yesteryear. He sucks. Embarrasing. And anybody who brings up ROH. Shut the hell up. Indy feds please
Posted By: colin (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 03:55 AM
Why can't he pick up a win?
Coz the HHHs dont like him. He aint his friend
Posted By: Guest#0171 (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 05:00 AM
Thanks for adding so much to this topic Colin, i mean really clever of you.
Punk is on his way to been a top guy, this world title reign is just the start, so people really need to stop bitching & see what happens after he beats JBL clean at Summerslam.
Posted By: jbardo (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 06:10 AM
Orwell must have had you in mind Thomlison when he said “In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.”
Posted By: nomark (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 09:09 AM
Has C.M Puck ever heard of a gym? Protein powder? How bout cardio so his mid-section doesnt look so soft? This guy is a joke. Only a matter of time before we have another credible champion.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 10:10 AM
no matter how you look at it, this is a fluke title reign, you can say others lost the title quicker than he did but that's just it, they LOST the title. He still HAS the title and still can't get a real,dominant win for nothing in the world. He was jobbing after he won the mitb case and as "world champion" he's getting into these matches where he just lucks out at the end. I'm a fan of the guy because he's a good wrestler but until they give him a string of convincing victories, I can't take him seriously as a credible champion.
Posted By: cj (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 11:12 AM
"Did Regal dominate Punk in his return match? Yeah, because he's the HEEL, and he's supposed to set the pace of the match"
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered) on August 06, 2008 at 12:48 AM
who made that rule?
Posted By: cj (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 11:15 AM
You say you want a great, credible, and believable champion. Who would that be? Y2J maybe? HBK? If Cena is champ, that's crap, if HHH is champ, that's crap, if JBL is champ, that's crap.
Looks to me like Vince is trying something new here, if you really can't deal with what happens on a TV show, turn it off. Seriously.
Posted By: Alan Kay (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 01:18 PM
You say you want a great, credible, and believable champion. Who would that be? Y2J maybe? HBK? If Cena is champ, that's crap, if HHH is champ, that's crap, if JBL is champ, that's crap.
Looks to me like Vince is trying something new here, if you really can't deal with what happens on a TV show, turn it off. Seriously.
Posted By: Alan Kay (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 01:18 PM
y2j wouldn't be a bad champion, cm punk would be a good champion too if they'd just book him like a champion and not like a person that just happens to be wearing a championship belt.
Posted By: cj (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 03:45 PM
There are two main events to every show. One every hour. Fuckhead.
Posted By: Crazy8 (Guest) on August 06, 2008 at 05:12 PM
I think that the only reason why Punk is winning on technicalities is because you want to keep guys like Batista and Kane look strong, while Punk keeps the title. And how it wouldn't be logical for Punk to get a pin on those guys because he just entered the main event scene.
The thing I like was that an up-and-comer was able to win the title besides, transferring the title from one main event guy to another. Punk as champ is also inspirational because he's trying to prove to everyone that he isn't a fluke. And that you don't need to be the greatest to win titles.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on August 07, 2008 at 12:16 AM
you know its mitb 4,lolz im glad i was the first one to point that out
Posted By: Guest#4773 (Guest) on August 07, 2008 at 01:50 AM
i totally agree with you. Because isn't a champion suppose to win matches. Plus he's a face wrestler he's suppose to win clean not wit DQ's. CM Punk suck anyways he was the reason why Kane couldnt win against Big daddy V when they tagged up back in ECW.
CM Punk should be a heel and make a stable wit Y2J, Lance Cade and Randy Orton.
Posted By: madapaka (Registered) on August 10, 2008 at 01:12 AM
