411’s Buy or Sell 8.08.08: RoH Expansion, CHIKARA's titles, Claudio's Heel Turn, and More!!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 08.08.2008

The 411 staff will look back at last weekend’s Ring of Honor shows and CHIKARA as Michael Bauer battles Jarrod Westerfield!

Welcome everyone to WEEK Sixty Eight of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.


Week Sixty Eight's Match-Up:
Buy or Sell Editor and ECW Recapper who is STILL marking out for CM Punk Michael Bauer vs. Scripted Through Sin Writer and overall mark Jarrod Westerfield!

Vin Gerard and Incoherence will both retain their titles this weekend in CHIKARA.

Michael Bauer : BUY . First things first, Vin Gerard losing the Young Lions Cup would be the biggest mistake ever. The guy is on a serious high plus his last match ws him winning the Young Lions Cup. So if he were to lose, they would switch the cup twice in two matches. That is a serious no-no in my book, especially for a guy who is being seen as the next big indy star. As for Delirious and Hallowicked, I just can't see them losing the Sea Monsters either. Incoherence is one of the best things going for CHIKARA right now and taking the titles off such a hot team is also a mistake.

Jarrod Westerfield : BUY . Gerard only won the Young Lions Cup at the last show CHIKARA put on, so I can't see him dropping so soon considering he's got a lot of buzz around him and is currently on a roll. But what split me was Incoherence, who I can imagine has had a pretty lengthy enough title reign that they could drop the straps – I just don't know if I can see it on Donst and Hydra. So instead of going with my initial thoughts, I end up following Bauer on this one, much like a good little lamb should.

1 for 1.

CHIKARA needs to establish a true company champion beyond the Young Lions Cup.

Michael Bauer : SELL. This is a tough question and I nearly bought it, but I am going with a last second sell. The Young Lions Cup is obviously for the rising stars of CHIKARA, but it seems that there is nothing else beyond that unless you are a tag team. Well, that's kinda the thing. Beyond the Young Lions Cup, most of the roster and matches are tag team mathces, whether two on two or three on three. So if you were to establish a singles title, you would be pretty much breaking up the foundation of CHIKARA just for guys like Claudio and Bradie Lee. Then again, Mike Quackenbush would probably just dominate the title, because there is nobody better than Quack.

Jarrod Westerfield : BUY. Unlike Bauer, I think CHIKARA can maintain their current direction of tag action heavy events while still having a singles title, beyond the Young Lions Cup, to compete for. The Young Lions Cup doesn't break up the theme and I can't see how the addition of another title for the singles wrestlers would either. If this new title were to follow the same rules as the Young Lions Cup, barring the "no repeat champions" rule, it could add some extra flavor to the singles matches they already hold currently while giving CHIKARA a face to latch onto other than Mike Quackenbush. Knowing CHIKARA they probably wouldn't allow this title to steal the entire emphasis of what makes this company unique, nor would they allow this title to be something that overshadows what they try to accomplish – fun, lighthearted and entertaining shows.

1 for 2.

Masato Tanaka should move up from Zero-1 in Japan to either NOAH or Dragon Gate.

Michael Bauer : BUY. Masato Tanaka has now won the Fire Festival Tournament for a Third Straight Year. This means one of two things. Either they just love booking him very strong or there is nobody else even worth it to win the damn thing. I'll go with the latter because Zero-1 is considered a Japanese Indy. And Masato Tanaka competing there is kinda like seeing any Intercontinental or United States Title contender fighting in Ring of Honor. He's just way too big to be in Zero-1 and I think he would be a welcome addition to either roster, but more likely NOAH where he could work with Morishima.

Jarrod Westerfield : SELL. He's worked for FMW and ECW, he had a short lived stint in the WWE for both ECW One Night Stand events, he's worked mostly for indy level companies and while Dragon Gate is seen more as an indy level company compared to the likes of AJPW, NJPW and even NOAH, it's still a bigger step than Zero-1. That all in mind, what about Tanaka would strike me to believe that he would want to go higher up the ranks when he's got a comfortable position of being the big fish of a small pond? Should he seek out a new environment to press upon his star power? Certainly, but what we fans think is good for a wrestler doesn't tend to take into account the personal lives and their wants and desires. We criticize those who throw away a great deal and a world of potential claiming if we were in their shoes we'd know better, but we lose sight of the fact that we're not that person – we'll never be that individual and go through the same exact experiences they have to know whether or not we could make the same decision we claim we'd make, sitting on the sidelines on our comfy couches. Tanaka seems content with being the huge star that Zero-1 relies upon, and while we think winning a tournament three consecutive years warrants a move to a different organization, possibly a bigger one at that, it's not as if Tanaka has to make that adjustment. There are no guidelines against him hanging around and getting his fifth straight Fire Festival victory, and the only one who would lose out on this would be him as he'd be losing out on potential bigger pays.

From my own personal stance, I don't see the point in him moving out of Zero-1, either. He's a big star that Zero-1 can latch onto and claim as one of their own. They can make a name for themselves utilizing him to draw in viewers and sell out arenas. It doesn't help that he's such a huge star that there's no one else in the company they can rely upon to win the Fire Festival at least once out of the three years, but they can build something around Tanaka that can help elevate another star, they just have to make sure they bank on the right guy to dethrone Tanaka and hope that he'll get the right kind of response out of the crowd. Masato remaining loyal to this company, while bad for him as far as current paydays, will be good for the long haul as Zero-1 can at least survive off of his name sake after having to put up with Tatsuhito Takaiwa, who seems to have put a black eye on the company – at least for some.

1 for 3.

SWITCH~!

The success of RoH's Toronto and Manassas shows is proof that their "slowly, slowly" expansion strategy is working.

Jarrod Westerfield : BUY. This one is a bit tricky as there's a few ways to look at it. First off, you can look at this as an easy "SELL" as you take into account that ROH had originally cut off certain locations from the Mid-West that they used to do a few shows in back in their earlier years, such as Minnesota. Another way of looking at it is that this coupled with their return trips and tours of England and Japan would mean this is an easy "BUY." So I'm sticking with the second way of looking at it as they only clipped a few locales that they hadn't seen in years, while adding more than double the number of locales they frequent now to their touring schedule. The slow and steady route has been paying off well for ROH, the only thing they need to focus on to really expand further is advertising their shows better and for a larger audience to become aware of them.

Michael Bauer : BUY. Yeah, I gotta go with Jarrod here. But with a caveat. You see, it works very well as long as you don't burn out a pretty good lineup for the next night of a double header. Take Toronto for example. There was so much hype going into that debut, that they loaded the card more than they normally would for a Friday show. And while that is all fine and well, it made the Saturday show, generally in a better market, weak by comparison. Keeping in mind it was PPV taping in Detroit also, and Ring of Honor may have shot themselves in the foot this time around. Now, Virginia was much different last weekend because it wasn't a debut, but a 2nd show. The show was good by all accounts AND they bettered themselves at Hammerstein the next night. If they keep doing that, then they will be fine. But they can not under any circumstances put on even a sub-par show at their bigger venues and shows just to make that huge splash in the newer, maybe not as good, market.

2 for 4.

Now that Flair is available, the rumoured Kobashi/Flair autograph session will happen at an RoH event soon.

Jarrod Westerfield : SELL. Define "soon" because as far as I'm concerned, I'm certain it'll take more than just Flair becoming available for this to go down anytime in the next 8 months. I can't recall off the top of my head exactly, but didn't Kobashi have issues with coming back to America that was also viewed as an issue for this idea falling through the first time?
Give it some more time, perhaps a year or so, and then we may end up seeing this thing actually happen – but the stars need to align just right in order for this to be the case. That means Kobashi willing to tour America once more, even if only for a few limited dates, and Flair accepting a payday from ROH for the appearance. I'm a little leery on that last one as I'm sure Flair will eventually work things out with the WWE once again to get the bigger payday, that or will end up working with the NWA for some schedule appearance dates that could conflict with any hopes of Flair entering into the ROH-verse.

Michael Bauer : SELL. Yeah, Jarrod hit most of it on the head. Personally, I just think that it is impossible to have those two big stars in the same place without a fire marshall warning for too many people showing up. But also, you have to wonder if Kobashi would come back to the states just to sign autographs. I just can't see that part of it happening. And while I see Jarrod's point about Flair and the WWE, I don't believe that will get in the way. I kinda expect him to have more like a legends deal, where he can do what he wants but is always welcome to show upon Raw.

3 for 5.

Claudio Castagnoli's heel turn could not have come at a better time for Claudio and Ring of Honor.

Jarrod Westerfield : SELL . I'm torn. Seeing the actions unfold live, I can understand why it needed to be done as Tyler Black is in a transitional position as his role in the Age of the Fall may come to a halt as the Necro Butcher looks to be leaving it, officially, and is becoming a big star and a fan favorite. He couldn't be the guy that breaks up Danielson's attempts to defeat McGuinness, so that fell on Claudio. But what puts me over on sell here is that we never got complete closure between Claudio and Sweeney, so I can't agree that his turn was needed now as he never got that monkey off his back.

Michael Bauer : BUY . BUY, BUY, MAJOR BUY! You see Jarrod, this is why I get paid the big bucks. Because those like me know this is the right move and the right time. Honestly, we are so far past Claudio vs. Sweeney that I simply don't think anyone expects a conclusion. But Claudio has simply been nothing special as a face for so long, especially when you have Danielson, Aries, and the Briscoes all outshining him. But as a heel, he clearly becomes the #2 on the side of the fence behind Nigel. And when Nigel loses the belt, who says he doesn't follow in Danielson's or Punk's footsteps? Who says that he doesn't go back to having the fans behind him because the cockinees and aura of the championship belt is gone? And if that does happen, who is going to be the top heel? Jimmy Jacobs with seemingly no steam? Tyler Black with seemingly enough overness to be the big face? Chris Hero… I'll just stop myelf now. The point is, Claudio has put himself in the perfect position to be the next champion with being the heel that the faces chase and the fans want to see get his head kicked in. And RoH had to see that as well, otherwise, what would have been the point?

3 for 6!


The Sixty Eighth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 3 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.