www.411mania.com
|  News |  Columns |  TV Reports |  Video Reviews |  Title History |  Hall of Fame |  News Report |  The Dunn List | Search
SPOTLIGHTS  SPOTLIGHTS
MOVIES/TV
// New Moon Breaks Dark Knight's Single Day Box Office Record!!
MUSIC
// Pics From Miley Cyrus Indianapolis Concert
WRESTLING
// 411 PPV Roundtable Preview: WWE Survivor Series 2009
POLITICS
// 411 Politics RoundTable: Thoughts On The Ft. Hood Massacre
MMA
// 411's UFC 106: Ortiz vs. Griffin II Report 11.21.09
BOXING
// Ward Shocks Kessler
GAMES
// Top 10 Action Role Playing Games




 HOT TOPICS
//  Chris Jericho
//  Randy Orton
//  Triple H
//  Jeff Hardy
//  Edge
SYNDICATE  SYNDICATE



411mania RSS Feeds





Follow 411mania on Twitter!




Add 411 On Facebook
 



 
 411mania » Wrestling » Columns
Advertisement
The Top Ten 08.12.08: Wrestlers
Posted by Julian Williams on 08.12.2008



Good day friends and welcome back to another fantastic edition of The Top Ten. This week we're going to look at The Top 25 Wrestlers of all-time. This was an extremely hard list to come up with as there were a lot of people that I had to leave off. Three men in particular that I REALLY wanted to include on the list, but didn't make the cut were Owen Hart, Rick Rude, and Bob Backlund. So before you flood upthe comments box or send me death threats for excluding them, they were close but just didnt quite make the cut. Ok, enough shit talking, let's do this SON!

Random Thoughts Of A Disturbed Wrestling Fan


-Sometimes being a member of IWC is depressing because of all the negativity. It's just constant bitching and whining, I feel like I'm at an all-girls grammer school instead of a website for wrestling fans. When Adamle was announced as the new GM, all I read was, "Waaa, Waaaa, Adamle sucks, Waaaa!" Jesus Christmas people, give the man a chance. So far, Adamle has done a good job in his new role but the way people reacted when it was first announced was like it was the end of the wrestling industry.

-Why do I continue to Watch Last Comic Standing? Every year, I watch and hope that America is FINALLY going to pick the best comic and it never happens. Last year, it was freakin' Jon Reep of all people (who shouldnt have even made the top 10, yet alone win the damn thing). And this year, they picked fucking Iliza when Jeff Dye, Marcus, and Louis Ramey were all much funnier than her. Hell, even Sean Cullen and Ron G were better than her. I give up America, all you fuckers are officially unfunny.

-I am officially addicted to The Olympics.

-Speaking of The Olympics, I'm convinced that The Chinese teams have just discovered the art of the double high five because that's all I see them do. Good play in a volleyball game? Double high five. Perfect performance on the parellel bars in gymnastics? Double high five. Gang bang the Romanian Water Polo team? Double high five.

-I'm supremely saddened about the death of Bernie Mac. The man was just unbelievably funny and it's hard to envision a comedic world without him. I think that amongst black comics, only Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy were ahead of Mac. His TV show was very underappreciated and I always looked forward to watching any stand up special that featured Mac. He will truly be missed and this year has definitely been a rough year for fans of quality comedy as we have lost some true greats.

-I watched Batman Forever a few days ago after not seeing it for years and I forgot just how much I loved Jim Carrey's performance as The Riddler. He was so over-the-top and outrageous that it made the movie that much more enjoyable. I love how he even acknowledges his campiness when after growling to Batman, "If knowledge is power, well then a god am I" he states, "Was that too over the top? I can never tell!"

The Top Twenty-Five Wrestlers


25) Nick Bockwinkel
Well this certainly is going to be a controversial pick, but if you think about it, it really shouldn't be. There was a time when the AWA was one of the hottest promotions in the country and a big part of that was Nick Bockwinkel. Bock played the arrogant, cocky heel to perfection which made the fans fork over their money to see the cocky champ get his comeuppance. There were a myriad of challengers to Bockwinkel's championship including future Hall of Famers like Hulk Hogan, Sgt Slaughter, and Curt Hennig, but somehow The Bock (as I like to call him) seemingly always found a way to hold on to his gold. He always displayed class, style and cool. Bock was one of a kind and easily one of the most underrated talents ever in the wrestling game.

24) Roddy Piper
The Rowdy One had the gift of gab like no other wrestler before him and very few since. Even Ric Flair stated that Piper was the best promo man the business has ever seen and while I don't agree with that, who am I to dispute the ‘Naitch? His promo skills eternally outshined his in ring skills, but Hot Rod could definitely hold his own in the ring. While he wasn't a technician in any sense of the word, his unpredictable and unrelenting style in the ring made him a joy to watch. His Piper Pit's segments are legendary and his matches against the likes of Greg Valentine, Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart are still talked about to this day. Piper often said that while Hogan took credit for the wrestling boom in the 1980's, he couldn't have done it without a heel that everyone wanted to pay to see him beat up and Piper was definitely that man.

23) Chris Benoit
I'd be lying if I said that the last few days of Benoit's life didn't contribute to him not being higher on this list. Although I try to be as objective as possible when creating lists, I felt it unfair to place him higher than some of the other people ahead of him on this list who I felt were equal to him in terms of talent. And in the case of a tie, I have to go with the non-murderers. With all that said, there is no denying that Benoit was one of the most talented men to ever step in a wrestling ring. What he lacked in promo skills and charisma, he made up for with some of the finest wrestling you could ever hope to watch. The man was a machine in the ring, so crisp and so fluid that you were left in astonishment that someone could be THAT good. He was idolized by many fans and fellow wrestlers alike and its a shame that his life ended in such horrific circumstances because future generations will now miss out on one of the greatest performers of all-time.

22) Rey Mysterio
It's hard nowadays to remember when Rey Mysterio was the most innovative and exciting wrestler in the business, but that day did exist not too long ago. With all of his excessive injuries, Rey is a shell of his former self in this day and age, but a little over a decade ago, people were going nuts over how awesome Mysterio was. It seemed like every match, he pulled off something that we had never seen before and what was more impressive was that he made it seem so easy and effortless. Rey was so quick and snapped off moves with such precision, that many times it took a second to process what you had just seen. Rey truly revolutionized the industry with his high-flying feats and is one of the main reasons you saw and continue to see the death defying antics of many of the cruiserweights that followed him.

21) Vader
There was a time when Big Van Vader was the most feared man in the wrestling industry, kayfabe or not. He was big, mean, nasty, stinky and wasn't afraid to legitimately pound the shit out of anyone he was facing. Mick Foley has told stories about how guys would see they were scheduled to face Vader and would quit right there rather than face him. You had to be a tough son-of-a-bitch to match up with Vader and when someone did, the results were magical because it would be a stiff fest of epic proportions. Not only was Vader tough as hell, but he also had a surprising amount of agility for such a big man. He could hit a moonsault off the top rope just as efficiently as he would hit a right hand to your jaw. Vader was the perfect definition of the word Monster and remains to this day as one the greatest big man the industy has ever seen.

20) Terry Funk
There has never been a Terry Funk match that didn't entertain me in someway. That is because Funk's crazy and erratic behavior makes it so that you cant turn your head when watching a match of his. Whether he was flinging chairs all over the place or swinging wildly at his opponents (or fans) or screaming something ridiculous and over-the-top, he always provided entertainment. Funk has been involved in some my favorite matches including his Empty Arena Match with Jerry Lawler (that saw him call Lawler a son-of-a-bitch about 56 times) and his I Quit Match with Ric Flair. What made those matches so memorable, as with most of Funk's matches, is his wild and crazy behavior (which the commentators would be sure to mention). Funk was one of a kind and I doubt we'll see anybody as crazy, deranged, and downright entertaining as him ever again.

19) Curt Hennig
Mr. Perfect really was the ideal moniker for Curt Hennig because everything the man did in the ring was just that: perfect. The way he sold moves was a sight to behold and the way he executed manuevers were precise and flawless. From his legendary showdowns with Nick Bockwinkel in the AWA to his mat classics with Bret Hart in the WWE, Hennig was a man that you could always count on to give a fantastic performance. He was another performer that left us far too early, but he left behind a catalog of great matches and moments for fans to enjoy for years.

18) Chris Jericho
During the Attitude Era, while most people's favorite wrestler was either Stone Cold or The Rock, mine was Chris Jericho. That is because not only was Jericho hugely entertaining on the mic, but he also delivered fantastic matches. Whether he was calling somebody an assclown or slapping on the Walls Of Jericho, I pretty much marked for everything Jericho did. His WCW run was memorable as well, even though he was constantly held back by management when at times it was clear that he was the #1 heel on the show (ok, maybe #2 because everyone hated Hogan). When he debuted as Y2J in the WWE, he was so entertaining and unbelievably popular that the WWE had no choice but to turn him into a face despite his heel status. He has continued to provide us endless hours of entertainment, whether heel or face, and his recent program with Shawn Michaels shows that he can outshine even the greatest of icons when given the chance.

17) Bruno Sammartino
Before guys like Hogan, Race, Dusty and Flair took over the wrestling world, there was one man that stood above all other competitors and that was Bruno Sammartino. Sammartino dominated the then WWWF and had a legendary title reign that started in May of 1963 and lasted until January of 1971. His second title reign was no slouch either as that one lasted from December 1973 to April 1977. Sammartino's popularity singlehandedly kept the WWWF afloat during a time when business not revolving around Sammartino was down. He sold out anywhere that he went and was a superstar before that term was even coined. Without such a popular figure like Sammartino to pave the way, who knows if we would have ever seen the Hogans and Flairs of the world.

16) Ricky Steamboat
Steamboat might be the most underappreciated talent ever in the wrestling industry. When people talk about the greats of this sport, you rarely hear Steamboat's name mentioned and that's a true crime because the man rarely (and i mean RARELY) had a bad match. His classic matches against such legends like Ric Flair, Randy Savage, Bret Hart and Steve Austin are still talked about to this day. His 1989 series of matches with Flair are regarded by many as the greatest matches in North American wrestling history. If you want to watch a great match, you can pretty much any Steamboat match and have your wish fulfilled. He was so great in the ring that he didnt need to cut killer promos or have undeniable charisma because he told a story in the ring that the fans could get behind.

15) Kurt Angle
There is no way to dispute the fact that Kurt Angle is simply awesome. Does he take unnecessary risks with his health and should he be at home instead of a wrestling ring? Hell yes. But even in his broken down state, he still manages to put on great matches. And what is scary is that the Kurt Angle of 6 years ago was even BETTER. From 2001-2005, there was no better wrestler on the planet than Kurt Angle. Angle could do everything, he could bring it to the mat, he could brawl, he could fly, he could bust out submission moves, he could cut a funny promo, he could cut a serious promo, he basically could do it all. Once his body started to deteriorate in 2006, it seemed like the end of an era, especially when the WWE released him. But he found a new home in TNA, which was more beneficial to him due to the lighter work load, but the more intense style of TNA seems to finally be catching up to him. As much as I love seeing Kurt perform, I hope that he hangs up his boots before he ends up like Dynamite Kid or worse.

14) Sting
I think that this generation of fans forget just how influential and popular Sting was during his heyday. Honestly, the only factors that kept NWA/WCW afloat during the WWE's boom in the late 80's and early 90's were Ric Flair and Sting. If it weren't for those two, WCW might have been dead a lot sooner before Vince bought it out. Sting had the type of energy that made the crowd go nuts anytime they saw him. Some of the loudest and most boisterious crowds I've ever seen were during Sting matches. He just had a way of getting the crowd completely into his matches and while he might not have been the greatest ring technician, his charisma made up for it because you couldnt stop watching his matches. His run in TNA has shown that he still has what it takes to get it done and his legendary status is cemented in history.

13) Randy Savage
There was something about Macho Man Randy Savage that just made him insanely cool. Whether it was his lavish entrance jackets or his blinged out sunglasses or his over-the-top gruff voice or how he would whisper one second AND THEN YELL THE NEXT, you couldn't help but be entranced when Savage entered your TV screen. The Macho Man had legendary showdowns with the likes of Tito Santana, Ricky Steamboat, Hulk Hogan, and The Ultimate Warrior which are still remembered fondly by fans to this day. Hopefully, Vince will one day squash whatever beef he has with Savage so we can see him get inducted in the Hall Of Fame and get the DVD set that he so richly deserves.

12) Harley Race
There is a reason why future legendary figures like Ric Flair and Steve Austin looked up to Harley Race and that is because the man was imply bad ass. He was a legit tough guy who would ground and pound you in the ring and expect the same in return. He took the NWA to new levels and his feuds with Terry Funk, Dory Funk Jr, Dusty Rhodes, and Ric Flair are still talked about to this day. Race was a one of a kind original and even though he's been retired for around 20 years, people still look back at his matches as examples of how a wrestling match should be conducted.

11) Dusty Rhodes
The charisma that Dusty Rhodes exuded on a night in, night out basis made him one of the most iconic figures this sport has ever seen. His promos are absolute classics and for a man his size, he certainly was no slouch in the ring. Anytime I watch a Dusty promo or match, I cant help but smile because the man had charisma oozing out of him. I dont think we'll ever see another wrestler who can connect with the fans as easily as Dusty Rhodes because all he had to do was enter a room, cut a 30 second promo, high five somebody and the crowd was instantly in love with him.

10) Triple H
I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flak from some people for placing The Game so high, but quite frankly he deserves it. Before HHH bashing became cool on the web, people were gaga over the guy and for good reason. He was a ring general that could put on an entertaining match with just about everybody. People act like he's a slouch in the ring, but outside of 2003 (which granted was a bad year for him) he has consistantly put on great matches. From Mankind to The Rock to Stone Cold to The Undertaker to Shawn Michaels to Kurt Angle to Chris Benoit to Batista to John Cena, the man has repeatedly put on classic match after classic match. So give The Game a break, he isn't as horrible as we all make him out to be. If you're still feeling some hatred in your heart, watch HHH vs. Cactus Jack from Royal Rumble 2000 and watch the hate ooze away.

9) Eddie Guerrero
In a family full of wrestling royalty, Eddie Guerrero shone through the brightest. His natural charisma made him a natural for the wrestling biz and his mix of mat wrestling and high flying made him one of the best talents in the world. From his early days in Japan and Mexico to his run in WCW to fulfilling his dream and becoming WWE Champion, Eddie always kept the fans entertained and developed a legion of fans that loved him like family. His untimely passing remains one of the saddest days in wrestling history because he was still entertaining us thoroughly when he was taken away from us. But at least we can rejoice that Eddie was able to overcome his demons long enough to achieve his ultimate dream and give us a few more years to enjoy his overwhelming talent.

8) The Rock
The Most Electrifying Man In Sports Entertainment. That pretty much says it all, doesn't it? The Rock was the picture perfect example of a sports entertainer as opposed to a wrestler. Don't get me wrong, The Rock could put on one hell of a show in the ring, but it wasn't due to a bunch of technical holds and mat work, but rather through sheer charisma. His promos have become the stuff of legend and his bouts with Stone Cold, Triple H, Hulk Hogan, Mankind, and others are certified classics. Nobody has ever had such a huge impact on the business in such a short period of time. The Rock was only a full-time wrestler for 5 years, but in those 5 years he crammed in a lifetimes worth of entertainment.

7) Mick Foley
Mick Foley is my favorite wrestler of all-time, hands down. How can you not respect a man who has put his body through such unimaginable pain just to please us bloodthirsty wrestling fans? But Foley was more than just a man who dove through tables and got seton fire. He was also one of the best talkers ever in the business. I'd even go so far to say that if Foley had a career as long as Ric Flair's (25+ years), he would probably be the best promo man EVER. Let the hate mail commence. Foley had that undeniable charisma that made him connect with the fans despite the fact that he was the complete opposite of what a normal fan favorite looked like. He wasnt muscular, he wasnt handsome, he wasnt flashy, but he sacrificed his body for our entertainment and the fans greatly respected that. Foley was one of a kind because I doubt we'll ever see anybody else willing to put themselves through such ridiculous amounts of pain to please us fans. Makes you appreciate him even more, doesnt it?

6) The Undertaker
Who knew that a gimmick that seemed so limited would turn into one of the most iconic characters ever in the wrestling industry? I think that is a testimony to the man behind the character as he has done everything in his power to make sure that The Undertaker character withstood the test of time. For about 17 years, The Deadman has dominated the squared circle. His undefeated streak at Wrestlemania speaks for itself and just gives a glimpse of how dominant he has been. A lot of people unfairly knock The Undertaker by saying he isn't that good of a worker which I think is absolutely ludicrous. I think that he is easily the best big man ever and the only one to even come close to him in that regard is Vader. When Taker is placed in the ring with a decent to great performer, he puts on one hell of a show. But I don't think even Flair, Michaels, Steamboat or any of the best workers this industry has ever seen would have been able to put on great matches with the likes of Giant Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy, and Heidenreich. The Deadman has been going strong for almost two decades and it there is no denying his place in wrestling history.

5) Bret Hart
The Best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be. While I don't agree with that assessment, I don't think anyone can deny that he was damn close to telling the truth. I'm not going to lie, when I was a kid, I worshipped Bret Hart. I thought everything he did was cool. From the sunglasses to the jacket to the entrance music to the way he entered the ring to The Sharpshooter, Bret was THE MAN to me. As I got older, I started to favor guys with more of an edge like Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold, but there is no way I can deny how huge a Bret fan I was in my younger days. Bret was just a master technician and his matches were truly a joy to behold. Seeing Bret dissect a body part was like watching Michaelangelo creating a masterpiece or Beethoven compose his newest symphony, it was a work of art. It's a shame that Bret went to WCW when he did because I would have loved to see him work with the likes of Kurt Angle, Triple H, The Rock and others while they were all in their prime.

4) Hulk Hogan
For all the hatred that Hogan gets (much of it deserved) there is no denying that the man almost single-handedly revolutionized the sport of wrestling. He made wrestling cool and mainstream and expanded the wrestling audience to proportions never seen before him. He dominated the 80's and early 90's and was smart enough in the mid-90's, once his popular started to wane, to turn heel. That kept his character fresh for an additional 3 years until he eventually went back to the WWE for one more title run. Love him or hate him, Hogan is perhaps the most important figure ever in the wrestling industry and who knows if the WWE would even still be around if it wasnt for the boom he created during his heyday.

3) Steve Austin
I wonder how many times Eric Bischoff has kicked himself for releasing the man that wound up being one of the main reasons his wrestling organization went out of business? In the early 90's Steve Austin displayed the type of look, charisma, and technical skills that made it apparent that he was going to be a big star someday. It wasnt until he got firedand went to ECW that his potential became very clear. His brief stint in ECW gave the promotion a shot in the arm and got him noticed by the WWE. Once he got there and dropped the horrible Ringmaster gimmick, he was allowed to be himself which is what turned him into the biggest star in the industry. Austin was a kick ass machine that rebelled against all kinds of authority and the fans ate it up. His legendary feud against Mr. McMahon propelled the WWE to unforseen heights and kept the WWE at the top for good. There is constanly a debate of who was the bigger draw, Hogan or Austin and while I dont think that's a question that will ever be answered, it wouldnt be foolish to side with Austin considering the impact he had on the industry.

2) Shawn Michaels
The Icon. The Legend. The Main Event. The Showstopper. Mr. Wrestlemania. All of these have been used to describe The Heartbreak Kid and they are all well deserved. Shawn Michaels in his prime might have been the most exciting wrestler to ever enter a ring. I remember as a kid being in awe of him and idolizing him even though most of the time he was the "bad" guy. Even to this day, when I watch some old matches of HBK's, I'm left with my mouth agape at all the incredible maneuvers he pulls off. I mean the man was FLAWLESS. If Michaels had really retired in 1998 and never came back, he would still be regarded as one of the best ever, but the fact that he came back in 2002 and continued to put on classic matches makes him in a league of his own. While he may not be able to do all the flashy moves he did when he was younger, he makes up for it nowadays by displaying the type of ring psychology that hasn't been seen in the wrestling biz for a long time. The man continues to innovate and perform better than pretty much anybody else on the WWE roster today. Cherish him while you can because I have a feeling that we wont see another performer as great as Shawn Michaels for a looooong time, if ever.

1) Ric Flair
Was there any doubt? Ric Flair is without a doubt the most influential and respected man to ever lace up a pair of wrestling boots. The reason Flair is regarded so highly is because the man could do it all. He could give the type of promo that would make you get goosebumps and then he would go in the ring and put on a performance that left the audience in awe. He is the rare wrestler to be loved by marks and the IWC alike. It is very rare to find anyone that doesnt have something good to say about Ric Flair. Even people who feel he is overrated still admit that he is probably the best promo man ever. Simply put, Flair did it all and he carried an entire promotion on his back for nearly 2 decades. Flair is a legend is the truest sense of the word and I feel that even 50 years from now, people will still be looking back at Flair's matches and be highly entertained by them.

The Sign-Off


That's it for me people, but a quick announcement before I leave. Due to work and family matters, next week will be my last Top Ten column. But I'm going out with a bang as next week I present the 50 greatest matches of all-time. Until then, go wash your ass!


Post Comment (138)  |  Email Julian Williams  |  View Julian Williams's 411 Profile

  Send To Friend  |    Stumble It!  |    Digg It!  | 



Please add your comment below.
If you are registered, you can login and post under your registered name. If not, you can post as a guest or register.

* Please note that 411 moderates all comments. Your comment will show up on the site after it has been approved by an editor.
 
Name : 
Comment : 
Remaining Characters : 
2800
 

Comments (138)

 
Where is Superman Cena?

Posted By: Dude (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:11 PM

 
 
There is no way Sting should be higher on this list then Beniot. Sting's most popular years were when he didn't even wrestle. Sting was a better character but as a wrestler he doesn't come close to Beniot.

Posted By: Sean (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:12 PM

 
 
What criteria are you using? Because in ring only, based solely off wrestling skills, this list is fucked up.

Posted By: Meh (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:15 PM

 
 
There are days where it's sad to be an IWC member when you have nothing more than people bitching and complaining about EVERYTHING.

Then again, i'm whining right now. Excuse me, I apologize.

Great list though. Flair is #1 is a no-brainer.


Posted By: Kevin F. (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:16 PM

 
 
Despite his relative short career and lack of doing anything important in the grand scheme of things, I still think Bryan Danielson has proven himself worthy of being called one of the best.

Posted By: Guest#7828 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:17 PM

 
 
I definetly agree with the top 2, I would probably have mixed the others up a bit, but HBK and Ric Flair are definetly the best in ring performers ever. Fun article

Posted By: Dale (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:19 PM

 
 
Good list, couldnt do it better myself. Would have maybe put Andre the Giant in there but thats just me.

Posted By: Adam (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:19 PM

 
 
To speak the truth, when it's all said and done, Shawn will be number one.

Posted By: Jay (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:21 PM

 
 
Julian,

So sorry to hear you're leaving. You're columns have been something I look forward to each week, I can't wait until next week even though it will be bittersweet.

Thanks for all of the great columns man...all the best.


Posted By: dovetail9 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:23 PM

 
 
i dont relly agree with your list... here is my list of top 7... 1. triple hhh 2. ultimate warrior 3. hbk 4. hogan 5. yokozuna 6. steve austin (only cause of his mic skill and beer truck and cause he hates authority like me) 7. great khali... thats just my two scents...

Posted By: milky (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:23 PM

 
 
I'm sure someone else will or has already mentioned this, but this should really by the 25 Greatest American/Canadian Wrestlers of All Time". No Japanese or Mexican representatives is pretty inexcusable on a 25 Greatest Ever list.

Posted By: sullenjoe (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:26 PM

 
 
No one will ever be able to make a DEFINITIVE "in-specific-order" list of the best of all time. But wow, this is probably one of the more believable, realistic & agreeable lists I've ever seen. Kudos to you.

Be warned though: the puro & indy fans (& I love puro & ROH btw) are drafting bounties for your head as we speak.


Posted By: Smooth (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:29 PM

 
 
No surprise that Flair was chosen Number 1. I won't say he was overrated in the ring, but his forte was the microphone.

Posted By: dude11767 (Registered)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:29 PM

 
 
I like your list because you gave credit on overall talent and not just the workrate fanatics, but I think the WWE has done a great job of making us forget that a Bret Hart in his prime is just as good if not better than Ric Flair.

They've done a great job of making us forget about how much he and Dusty kept down talent that was better than them and used the "book" to make them and their buddies staples instead of doing what was for the best of the business.

Flair had it it all. He could work a great match and he had the promo skills, but I just finished watching Bret Hart vs Austin from SS 96, and honestly, I don't think Flair could have had that type of match.

I know we're going to get some that call me crazy for going against the grain, but I think we far to easily put Ric Flair in that greatest of all time category when actually, he wasn't better than a prime Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Curt Henning. I think either he was right on par with them in the ring or they were just flat out better than he was.

Can you picture Curt Henning as Mr. Perfect in the NWA/WCW with a 7 year push like the one Flair received? Where would he have been if he held the book, or if one of his friends of daddy held the book?

Just a thought...


Posted By: Industry (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:29 PM

 
 
Are you kidding me right now? That list is a joke just on the basis that Bret Hart isn't #1. Ric Flair was great, but almost all of his matches were the same. Bret always brought something different depending on his opponent.

Bret Hart also is a much better WRESTLER then Hogan and Austin. Hart most certainly is The Best There Is, The Best There Was, and The Best There Ever Will Be!


Posted By: Pier (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:30 PM

 
 
My top five
1. Mitsuharu Misawa
2. Kenta Kobashi
3. Ric Flair
4. Bret Hart
5. Manami Toyota


Posted By: VErdu (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:30 PM

 
 
this site is biased towards wwe wrestlers. where is the roh representation? not only that, but where are the japanese workers? epis flail

Posted By: Guest#6563 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:32 PM

 
 
No Great Khali!? For shame...

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:32 PM

 
 
the rock is number 8? EPIC FAIL

Posted By: hound89 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:33 PM

 
 
There's no way in hell the Undertaker is top 10 of all time. He's a total gimmick wrestler...his American Badass period when he was just himself let to horrendous matches, bad angles and plummeting ratings when he was in the main event.

How someone could put the Undertaker ahead of the ROCK or Sting or Randy Savage blows my mind. Just because he's been around for 2 decades doesn't mean he's better than any of those 3.

And man, how would Foley feel? Foley SAVED Taker's career in 1996.


Posted By: O'Dog (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:34 PM

 
 
I stopped reading after #23. He should have been at least in the top 3. And is this list only include wwf and 1 awa guy ?

Posted By: Guest45782 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:36 PM

 
 
Laughable.

There is a WORLD out there beyond mainstream US wrestling.


Posted By: Guest#2713 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:41 PM

 
 
Angle got robbed.

Posted By: Guest#4571 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:48 PM

 
 
Yup, as I crept down the list I was dreading it more and more and then there it was... the senile, over pushed, and disgustingly flabby (at least in his later days) Ric Flair. Flair has been neither relevant nor entertaining for ten years. Plus if you pay careful attention to his promos, he never says anything different. The same thing for 25 years, and his fans can't help but felate him with words whenever a list like this comes along. Yes, Flair was good in his Heyday, but he has pretty much ruined Raw for me in the last few years stumbling around the ring completely out of shape. Again, just my opinion. Not trying to take away from his contributions to the biz... ten or fifteen years ago...

Plus, Shawn Michaels over Bret Hart, The Undertaker, and Eddie Guerrero? Thats just sick


Posted By: Anthony (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:49 PM

 
 
Great list Julian. Hopefully you won't get too much hatemail from the assclowns who will either b**ch about too many WWE/WCW stars on the list instead of their beloved indy favorites, or the people like "Pier" below who insist on continuing to fellate Bret Hart. The guy was good, sure, but he has turned into a bitter, self-centered person with WAY too high of an opinion of himself.

That's not say that he might have plenty of reasons to be bitter, but GOOD LORD eventually you need to move on. There's more to life than how you were thought of at your former place of employment.


Posted By: Jackie Treehorn (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:52 PM

 
 
No love for The Phenomenal One? :(

Posted By: m8 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:52 PM

 
 
HA! Pier, are you kidding me? Did you just say that Bret always brought something different to his matches?!? That's like saying Hogan comes around every now and then just to graciously put over young talent and then bows out.

Anyway Julian, great job! Sorry to see you go as I have enjoyed your column for a long time now. Good luck to you and I wish you the best in all your future endevours ; )


Posted By: Susan (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 03:56 PM

 
 
I agree with your list just because the 2 greatest wrestlers of all time in the history of the business not just the WWE but the entire wrestling world are in the top 2 how ever i would have put HBK at # 1 flair may have been "the sixty minute man" but shawn was and is Mr.consistency not to mention ALOT!!! of superstars have had or have said there best match was against HBK no disrespect to flair however bottom line in the ring and on the mike heel or face no one even comes close to HBK even vinny mac has said so who else comes back after time off for injury or other reasons and comes back as if he never missed a day no one but HBK

Are you kidding me right now? That list is a joke just on the basis that Bret Hart isn't #1. Ric Flair was great, but almost all of his matches were the same. Bret always brought something different depending on his opponent.

Bret Hart also is a much better WRESTLER then Hogan and Austin. Hart most certainly is The Best There Is, The Best There Was, and The Best There Ever Will Be!

Posted By: Pier (Guest) on August 12, 2008 at 03:30 PM
WATCH THE ENDING OF ALMOST EVERY HART MATCH AND THEN TELL ME ONLY FLAIR DOES ALL THE SAME THINGS


Posted By: HBK4LIFE (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:01 PM

 
 
Mick Foley is ranked higher than uncle Eddy, Randy Savage, Kurt Angle, and Chris Benoit? Did I wake up in Bizarro World?

So Chris Benoit loses points for going Chris Benoit, but Foley still ranks even though he stuck around far too long as Commissioner and annoyed the hell out of everyone with his cheap pop bullshit (not to mention ruining his retirement after a month with a mediocre WM match). Totally weak...


Posted By: Pizza Delivery Jones (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:02 PM

 
 
Get the hell outta here...Hogan is #1.

Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:03 PM

 
 
Pier, for you to suggest Bret Hart should be number 1 is solely your opinion, which you are entitled to.

The problem is, you debunk Flair for "every match being the same", when its been well documented that Bret was a control freak that insisted on ending every match with the same move sequence.

Also, I feel Bret was a great talker that could really get an American crowd to hate him. Flair however is simple the best promo man I've ever seen in my life. From swank, stylin' and profilin' flair, to pissed off intense flair, to cocky arrogant flair, they were all awesome. Bret, while easily one of the best mat technicians I've ever watched, was only serviceable as a holier than thou canadian heel on the stick.


Posted By: jbone (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:03 PM

 
 
No Great Khali!? For shame...

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:17 PM

 
 
Mick Foley shouldnt be in the top ten. while he does deserve to be on this list the highest i would rank him is 15. but good list this is my top 5
1.Ric Flair
2.Shawn Michaels
3.Bret Hart
4.Stone Cold Steve Austin
5.tie-Undertaker/Sting


Posted By: RJ (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:17 PM

 
 
Excellent list, Andre should be on there somewhere, but hey its pretty damn good. Little light on puro and mexican guys but I dont speak mexican or japanese so I don't really miss it. What some people miss sometimes is that half of wrestling is the promo work. Work rate freaks are going to bemoan Bryan Danielson not being on there but honestly, what has the guy done so far? Keep up the good work, love the article.

Posted By: Truffles (Registered)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:18 PM

 
 
Don't call it a top 10 list and then list 25, coward

Posted By: Guest#9199 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:19 PM

 
 
is this YOUR top 25 or is this the list that you think people wanna see cuz there is some glaring issues with your rankings son no arn? no verne?

Posted By: sfh (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:21 PM

 
 
No love for The Rock? He should be in every discussion when talking about the best promo men of all time. Hogan and Austin as well. More charisma among those three than the rest of the list combined.

Posted By: JG (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:21 PM

 
 
What Julian is going to do the 50 greatest matches of all time? Because he hasn't already done the best 50 matches of the last 10 years, 20 years, 5 years, WWE matches, Attitude Era, Wrestlemania, WCW, SummerSlam and all of the other redundant lists.

His 50 greatest is just going to be rehashing the same comments in the same order he has for the last year or however long he's been doing these repetitive lists.

I'm glad Julian is leaving. Maybe we can get someone in here with an original idea or two.


Posted By: Guest#9109 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:23 PM

 
 
good list... mostly i agree with this.. however i think 25 (or at least honorable mentions) should go to Edge. This man is a fantastic performer (workrate, promos, the total package). other honorable mentions should go to AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson, John Cena, CM Punk, Batista, William Regal, & Randy Orton.. All bring something different to the table, all phenomenal talents (pun intended).

Posted By: matt (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:30 PM

 
 
I like the list but I think the Great Muta should at least be mentioned along with these guys for the simple fact his NWA run was very sucessful and his NJPW run was legendary. Not to mention his the japanese crowd believed in his character and at times were scared shitless of him. He also had a very unique style of wrestling by being able to combine storytelling with good wrestling. Thats just me giving an opinion but overall it was a good list. Good luck with everything.

Posted By: mike (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:42 PM

 
 
Ok, so you're going to do your final top 10 list next week and it's a top 50. After this week's top 25... I think this about sums you up... your writing is appalling and this site will be much better without you. Please feel free to take a number of the other writers with you, in fact, everyone except Meehan, Dunn and, purely for workrate if not talent, Czonka.

As for the "best wrestlers of all time", I put to you:

Mitsuharu Misawa
Kenta Kobashi
Toshiaki Kawada
Jushin Liger
Keiji Muto
Manami Toyota

as absolute no-brainers and, given your writings about Hogan as "wrestler", you should really have considered Antonio Inoki, Giant Baba, Atsushi Onita and the like - not incredible workers but massive draws. Riki Chosu, Shinya Hashimoto, Steve Williams, Stan Hansen, the list goes on and on...

You are aware that there are other countries than America, right?


Posted By: Guest (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:46 PM

 
 
where are kevin nash and scott hall? the steiner brothers?

Posted By: kurt (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:50 PM

 
 
Not complete without Sean Waltman. Stone Cold is number one in my book though.

Posted By: MBD (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:57 PM

 
 
You should have really stated Top 25 North American wrestlers, but even that would be wrong because you left a lot of great luchadors and The Hooker himself Lou Thesz. A real top 25 would probably be at least a quarter Japanese. Though I applaud you for putting up The Funker. I think a lot of people forget Terry Funk in regards to lists like these. His brother is still the better overall worker though. Plus you're missing Dean Malenko, Andre the Giant, and John Cena in the Honorable Mention.

Posted By: Guest#1234 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 04:59 PM

 
 
While we can all quibble on the order, there is not a wrestler on that list I can argue against. Good job.

Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:03 PM

 
 
Brian Pillman and Dean Malenko should at least be Honorable Mentions.

Posted By: Guest#1552 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:07 PM

 
 
Your kidding right?

Your picking the top 25, and no mark henry in sight?
Have you actually watched wrestling in the last 10 years. Mark henry is the most over wrestler/entertainer EVER!!
Let me Help you out a little...
5. Jake The Snake Roberts
4. Bruiser Brody
3. The Honkey Tonk Man
2. Barry Windam
1. Mark Henry!!!

Your killing me with laughter on that mick foley, yeah, he was great.

How about an honorable mention for either bill or randy mulkey.


Posted By: Handsome Ray Bronson (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:07 PM

 
 
Bochwinkle WAY too low. Foley, Jericho, and Guerrero too high. No Lou Thesz, El Santo, Antonio Inoki? However, I do agree with your top 5.

Posted By: Brad K. (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:10 PM

 
 
i love the olympics as well. i am not some USA homer. i love watching the lesser known sports on nbc.com like handball and archery.

as for the list, yes flair is number one. but as other have stated. what about stan hansen, carlos colon, great muta, and gory guerrero. there is life outside of US wrestling.


Posted By: rey (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:17 PM

 
 
Posted by Pizza Delivery Jones: "So Chris Benoit loses points for going Chris Benoit, but Foley still ranks even though he stuck around far too long as Commissioner and annoyed the hell out of everyone with his cheap pop bullshit (not to mention ruining his retirement after a month with a mediocre WM match). Totally weak..."


SO...you're comparing refusing to retire due to becoming a parody of oneself to committing a real life double-murder/suicide?

I was as big a Benoit mark as there was, but..."totally weak."


Posted By: Smooth (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:22 PM

 
 
John CENA shud be no 1, 4ever, with Great Kahli and Mizark Henry close behind. ur list was incorrect

Posted By: Guest#4699 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:23 PM

 
 
It's too bad that Kurt Angle left WWE in such a bad manner, because people have forgotten (or chosen to forget) how many incredible performances he has had (and continues to have) in his career.

If Hulk Hogan is number three, I'm assuming you're using some sort of drawing power as criteria...but then bushleague WCW mainstay Ric Flair as number one? Doesn't make sense.


Posted By: BH (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:23 PM

 
 
No! (smacks Julian's nose with newspaper)

Posted By: David (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:30 PM

 
 
The list is clearly based on the total package due to Hogans placing & in that case i cant argue with Flair, HBK & Austin as the 3 in that order.

Also happy to see Vader in there, not only a great big man but a great wrestler full stop.


Posted By: jbardo (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:32 PM

 
 
Have you ever heard of Lou Thesz ? He was the greatest of all time. Lou could beat any of the men on your list in a shoot . Some of the people you list are sports entertainers , not pro wrestlers. Anyway , Lou Thesz was number one. You need to study wrestling history.

Posted By: Guest#4212 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:33 PM

 
 
It should of been
1) John Cena
Because Superman wears his underwear, nuff said.

BTW John Cena is awesome


Posted By: Guest#1795 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:40 PM

 
 
i totally agree with the taker's position, good call. i probably would have overlooked him if i were doing this

of course, my list would have read
#1 Bret Hart
#2 JBL
#3 The Rock

and a lot of other shit people would disagree with


Posted By: benwrobinson (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:41 PM

 
 
I think I finally get it. You purposely write tripe to get the hits.

*smacks self in the head*

Man you are a genious. (I am not canadian.)

Its an ok list. You should watch some more Jap+Wetback wrestling though.

But to honest as much as I love Flair, HBK has been putting on clinics with damn near everyone for the past 6 years.

Then how many great matches HBK has had in that 6 year run, and think to when Flair was that age... in that 6 year run how many great matches had Flair have?

I am officially saying that HBK is the greatest entertainer of all time.


Posted By: The Fuj (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:53 PM

 
 
Awesome list. Agree all the way. Sorry that some people like to complain in the comment section. Don't feel bad, though. They go and complain about other peoples columns as well - that is how they spend their days.

Posted By: Nature (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:56 PM

 
 
HBK can't and never could draw. So I feel that he should be below at least Hogan and Austin (I'd have him lower myself, but I respect the sheep'sopinions when they all baa at once)

Posted By: Stealer (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:56 PM

 
 
I agree with what you are using as criteria. If you are going by technical ability; Benoit, Henning, Angle, Jericho and Hart should all be up higher. If you are going for character/charisma; Jericho and Angle should be higher.
I don't agree with a lot of things you have. HBK should be lower, as he is so overrated. Bret Hart should be at the top. He carried the WWF during a shitty period and had the toughest schedule. He is by far the greatest technical wrestler of all time, and could cut great promos. He revolutionized wrestling as much as anyone else, showing that you don't have to be a big guy or just a character, you can get to the top by being the best.

Angle should also be much, much higher. Like you said yourself, he has it all. Why would you rank him lower then someone who is worse in many areas, like Sting or Savage.


Posted By: Shawno420 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 05:57 PM

 
 
the crybabies are cracking me up!!
everyone listing the japanese wrestlers... we get it, you like japanese wrestling, and although I've seen it (always looks like fat guys kicking each other) I never heard of them, no one really has, so how do they revolutionize wrestling?
Danielson?? maybe in a few years but we get it, you like ROH, so do i, but he maybe would be in the top 50 right now.
very cool list-- I'll let the crybabies continue...


Posted By: wahhhh! (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:00 PM

 
 
Fuck this list, I stopped reading it when I saw the child-murderer was on it.

Posted By: EZMark (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:04 PM

 
 
According to ANY criteria this list makes no sense. You should have just said "my top 25 personal favorite wrestlers everrr lolol1111"

Posted By: poffo316 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:05 PM

 
 
Good list but way too top-heavy with names from the Attitude/Crash TV era. Some other names for consideration:
Terry Gordy, Ted DiBiase, Dory Funk Jr, David Von Erich, Steve Williams, Jushin Liger, The Great Muta, Dean Malenko, Verne Gagne, Barry Windham, Bobby Eaton, Ricky Morton, Owen Hart, Dynamite Kid, Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, The Iron Sheik, Bob Backlund, Pedro Morales, Rick Rude, Tully Blanchard, Arn Anderson.


Posted By: MistaBitchez (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:10 PM

 
 
No he's not. Grow up.

Posted By: MBD (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:15 PM

 
 
I agree with the comments regarding a top 10 list containing 25 entrants. I also agree that Julian has done just about all that can be done with lists.

The biggest complaint I have with this list is that Andre the Giant was not included! He was the 8th Wonder of the World, booked as Undefeated for 15 years(wwe only as he had a couple of actual losses and no contests outside of the wwe). He is part of wrestling history and the Slam Heard Round the World. He was drawing millions of fans wherever he went BEFORE Hulk Hogan EVER came on the scene! He was the king of the battle royal and no one today has even come close to winning as many battle royals as Andre did. He is the greatest "Big Man" wrestler of all time - there will never be another Andre(as hard as Big Show tries). To not have him mentioned is shameful!

I remember the poll that 411 did a while ago where all the fan got to vote on the greatest of all time (I think the list was 100 - not sure). The top 3 went as follows(if I am remembering correctly)
1: Ric Flair
2: Bret Hart
3: Andre The Giant.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions Julian, but I think your list really missed the mark on so many levels. Mick Foley as a great wrestler? It does not even make sense - I agree with Ric Flair on Foley being a glorified stuntman - to be ranked above Eddie, HHH and The Rock - what an insult. My top 3 would have been the same as the results of that poll. I am a huge Bret Fan, but Ric Flair gets the slight edge if for nothing else than longevity. He always made it look easy.

Good luck Julian and good luck to your replacemnt.


Posted By: AndreFan (Registered)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:16 PM

 
 
What?????????? You didn't even mention Dbl. A, The Enforcer, Arn Anderson.
He was always in Flair's shadow even though he was the superior of the two.


Posted By: HoosierJim500 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:16 PM

 
 
flair is number 1. but kurt angle just might be the greatest wrestler EVER!!! he is in the amateur wrestling hall of fame and an olympic gold medalist.

then he moved on to a fake sport and completely DOMINATED in all facets of the industry.

on a side note, i think he should retire as well.


Posted By: jd (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:17 PM

 
 
No Ed "The Strangler" Lewis?!? Or even "Classie" Freddie Blassie? Double A? Booker T, the most decorated man in wrestling history? Jerry Lawler? Bad Bad list

Posted By: andy (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:29 PM

 
 
Mr. Perfect is in the top 20 but Ted DiBiase, Jake the Snake and Edge are left off the list completely? For shame.

Posted By: Bob (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:29 PM

 
 
You really should have called this list the best 24 wrestlers since 1980 and Bruno Sammartino. It's true that Sammartino was the best known champ between around 1970 and 1980, but he's hardly the greatest of the territories era, and there are many guys from back then who should rank ahead of many of the guys you list. I won't go negative here and pick out the guys I think you over rated, but I will mention some of the earlier stars you left off. Ed "Strangler" Lewis, Lou Thesz, the true "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers, Antonio Rocca, Johnny Valentine, Bobo Brazil, Pat O'Connor, Andre the Giant, Killer Kowalski, Dick the Bruiser -- well, I could go on and on, but I hope you get the point. Pro wrestling didn't start with the WWF on USA era; in fact, it could be argued that great pro wrestling ended when McMahon and Hogan and "sports entertainment" became ascendent. I have no problem with you younger fans and writers trying to pick the best of your era, but I do find it irritating when you call these guys the best of all time, because they aren't. If you didn't know, now you know.

Posted By: truthsayer (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:39 PM

 
 
Beniot was good but not in the league of Sting...to say that Sting hit his peak in 97 with the rafter gimmick is selling the man short on his popularity in the late 80's and mid 90's. His fueds with Vader, Koloff, Rude and others were always the top programs on the NWA/WCW card.

Posted By: taco stand (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:47 PM

 
 
OK you damn virgins, shut the fuck up. EVERYBODY here doesn't watch old and new Japanese wrestling tapes and the MAJORITY of us grew up watching North American wrestling.

To the fuckin' idiot who names all japanese guys (I guess he wanted to look "different", where are your mexican and cuban wrestlers?)

He made a fuckin' list based off of what the MAJORITY of us grew up watching. Top (whatever)list are made so people can bitch and moan and have discussion anyway, and how can you have discussion if the list is full of mutha fuckas that nobody in this country has ever HEARD OF, SO in closing.... shut the fuck up, accept the list for what it is and go get some pussy you weak ass idiots....

And stop with that "Epic Fail" shit... it just solidifies the fact that your a bitch...


Posted By: Industry (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:49 PM

 
 
Not top 10 wrestlers.

Great Muta, Hayabusa, Misawa and a number of Japanese and Mexican wrestlers I'm not thinking of.

Good list though you just need to think outside of NA


Posted By: Colin (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:54 PM

 
 
not sure were youd fit them on the list but.....Andre, Pillman, Jarrett, Van Dam, Dibiase, Malenko, Owen, Rude, Backlund

Posted By: Guest#5015 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:56 PM

 
 
What about RVD and AJ Styles?? Most entertaining to me. And RVD likes to burn the green....

Posted By: GWhite420 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 06:57 PM

 
 
No Japanese, Mexican, ROH, Indy to a lesser extent

Seriously this list is a little too pro-mainstream US wrestlers.


Posted By: Kalvin (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 07:03 PM

 
 
This came off more as a "personal favorite" list instead of a "best ever". I wont complain though, if I were to make a list a lot of these same names would have been on display.

Posted By: K. Bett (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 07:20 PM

 
 
Posted by Pizza Delivery Jones: "So Chris Benoit loses points for going Chris Benoit, but Foley still ranks even though he stuck around far too long as Commissioner and annoyed the hell out of everyone with his cheap pop bullshit (not to mention ruining his retirement after a month with a mediocre WM match). Totally weak..."

Posted by Smooth: "SO...you're comparing refusing to retire due to becoming a parody of oneself to committing a real life double-murder/suicide?

I was as big a Benoit mark as there was, but..."totally weak.""

Why not? I'm pretty sure that the list was "Top 25 Wrestlers", not "Top Ten Husbands and Fathers." If that were the case, I'd have no problem with Foley ranking higher. A list of the BEST should actually be a list of the BEST, not a list of the PRETTY GOOD.

While Chris Benoit may have committed a crime against the Benoit family, Mick Foley's non-entertainment value as commissioner is a crime against humanity...


Posted By: Pizza Delivery Jones (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 07:43 PM

 
 
I agree that someone like Muta and Liger should both be featured on the list. But seriously...Steamboat AND Savage aren't even in the top 10!?

Both are responsible for one of THE most WM moments of all time and Steamboat put on clinics with Flair in the late '80s. How can they be below Foley? I'm a big Foley fan but that's such a biased call man, really. He's a great character, a great performer, but in NO way top 10 material. And if that's the case, The Rock in no way should be top 10. Great character, lots of charisma and great on the mic, but top 10 wrestlers? WRESTLERS? no no no no no no no

Couldn't hold a candle to Steamboat, HHH, Savage, Piper...anyone else he ranks over. Athletic, yes. Popular, yes. But NOT top 10


Posted By: mossby (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 07:52 PM

 
 
As much of a Cena mark that I am, he is correctly off the list, because he hasn't been around long enough, but he'll wind up being a major force on a list like this by the time he retires. Also, thanks for including Rey. He really deserved it. The problem I have with lists like this is that you can't really narrow it down to 25. It should have been at least 50 if not 100. This list is a good one, a real who's who.

Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 08:20 PM

 
 
I thought the list said the besr WRESTLERS.

Posted By: Deano (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 08:24 PM

 
 
Number 15 for Kurt Angle??
Are you crazy man? thats just stupid, and i'm sorry to say that.


Posted By: Chris D. (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 08:28 PM

 
 
good list but you might want to include some people from the old school. Examples like Lou Theze, Dick The Bruiser, The Shiek, Georgious George. People who surpased Henning, Savage and Jericho in skill and importance.

Posted By: rob P (guest) (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 08:36 PM

 
 
Where's Goldberg?

Posted By: Julian Williams is NEXT (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 08:37 PM

 
 
I think its criminal you left out Cena.... screw Dusty Rhodes... Cena is the total package... sure he panders to the younger audience but thats what he is told to do... he has been the most consistent worker in the Biz for the last 3 years... and without doubt one of the most interesting unique performers of all time.... CENA is WWE since 2005 no matter if you love him or hate him he gets a reaction like no other... and I bet if he was gone... every hater out their would miss him.

As much as I love Ric Flair.... no one comes close to HBK... not only is he the most innovative wrestler of all time, he has been consistently the 'best' worker of all time. Flair even says it himself.... by the time Shawn officially retires he will go down as the best ever, period.


Posted By: Andrew Barbarash (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 09:03 PM

 
 
No reason why Sting should be that high. Over Bruno? COME ON. Nor should he even be on it if this was really an "all-time" list instead of just a late-60s (although Bruno was around before that this was his peak) to now list.

Chris Jericho doesn't belong it as well. Never drew serious money anywhere.

I'm glad you keep Backlund off the list. He's such an overrated piece of garbage.


Posted By: Guest#8632 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 09:23 PM

 
 
Rock is a bit high (for a guy who's entire career from debut to retirement was about 5 years). He's a modern day Magnum TA only Magnum was a far better wrestler. (IMO)

The list seems very attitude centric, but its still cool, there could never be a definite list because there are always those who worship/detest certain wrestlers. Picking a best wrestlers is like picking the most delicious flavor.


Posted By: Grand Cosmo (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 09:43 PM

 
 
Where is Tully Blanchard, Arn Anderson,Ricky Steamboat,Magnum TA, Arn Anderson.These guys are better than half the people on this list.

Posted By: chuck (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 09:56 PM

 
 
Anytime a list will come out, it's only purpose is to be debated, but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway, Bret/Flair/HBK should always be the top 3 in any list. Also Dynamite Kid belongs at least in the top ten.

Posted By: psych (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 10:29 PM

 
 
no offense but if your gonna do a list of the greatest wrestlers, tag teams, etc it should be done by era's not of all time

Posted By: JLPrime (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 10:39 PM

 
 
Where's Barry Horowitz?!?

Posted By: Guest#8248 (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 10:54 PM

 
 
For the most part this is just a list of famous wrestlers in the US. You should do a top 25 for indy wrestlers and one for puroresu, and maybe one for luchadores to represent all the non-mainstream wrestling.

Also, I'm glad to see Vader made it on this list. A lot of people don't realize how huge he was globally.


Posted By: Chris (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 11:16 PM

 
 
Where is EDGE? unquestionably the best all around performer in the WWE today.

Posted By: Superstar (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 11:28 PM

 
 
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. But if you think Cena should be on this list, then I'm of the opinion that you're a fucking idiot.

Posted By: MBD (Guest)  on August 12, 2008 at 11:50 PM

 
 
Great work from you as always. Good luck in the future and don't be a stranger around here. Maybe they'll let you do a Fact or Fiction each week.

Posted By: Rust (Registered)  on August 12, 2008 at 11:50 PM

 
 
Pizza Delivery Jones: a double murder suicide is just a crime against a family, but failing to entertain you as a wrestling fan is a crime against humanity? Do us all a favor, and stay in your mommy's basement. Decent human beings shouldn't have to deal with someone as fucked up as you. And that's the truth, because truthie says so.

Posted By: truthsayer (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 12:06 AM

 
 
The British Bulldog!!!!!

Posted By: Guest#7697 (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 01:11 AM

 
 
" Due to work and family matters, next week will be my last Top Ten column."

work and family matters? Sounds more like Working on FAMILY MATTERS! You son of a B, how did you land that job!? Did you convince Larry Johnson to come back as the grandma?

Oh, right, column. Good list, definitely. My personal favorite is Shawn Michaels, so I would have him at one, but really that's just picking nits. I never much got into Flair, but it's more than obvious that he's one of the best of all time.

And I don't remember who said it, but it was not just based on in ring work. For Angle, he mentioned how he was the total package with promos, not just in ring. And The Rock #8 for only in ring work? Nah, just not gonna happen.

I also half agree with the guy who said Bryan Danielson should've been on the list. He's one of the best wrestlers in the world, and he's a HELL of a promo man now, as he can let his intensity and passion for the business really shine through. But the fact that hardly anyone knows about him really screws that whole thinking up. I'd say in 5-10 years, if he doesn't get badly injured, and if he never does end up taking a WWE contract, his work alone will get him main stream attention. Benoit was the exact same way. And I've never really heard a bad thing said about Danielson, either. I know he's a student of HBK's and Regal's, so they'll push for him to be in WWE forever, but if you have those two guys' stamp of approval, it's inevitable that more and more will jump on the band wagon, main stream wise atleast.


Posted By: All Around Wrestling Fan (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 01:23 AM

 
 
I'll also always be offended until The Destroyer is acknowledged as one of the best workers and best heels of all time. Good God that guy is as amazing as he is butt ass ugly. And he is the very definition of butt ass ugly.

Posted By: All Around Wrestling Fan (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 02:13 AM

 
 
You're showing your age and/or lack of knowledge regarding wrestling history. Ever heard of Buddy Rogers? Freddie Blassie? Lou Thesz? Ever heard of the countless numbers of great wrestlers from Japan? This list must've been written by a WWE mark....

Even at that, how the hell can you put Sting ahead of Kurt Angle or Benoit? Mick Foley ahead of Harley Race? Mick Foley shouldn't even be in the top 20 if you ask me.


Posted By: Bruno (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 02:16 AM

 
 
The problem with this list is the same problem all your columns have - there is no methodology. The Top 25 wrestlers based on what? In ring abilities? Drawing power? Charisma? All 3? Are they all equally weighted? With those questions left unanswered, this column came off as more of a personal favorites list than anything more meaningful.

Posted By: Bob (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 02:23 AM

 
 
I used to really enjoy this column but at this point it's really the same thing every week. Top 50 matches next week? Great, can't wait to read about the same matches you talked about in the Top 21st Century Matches column and the Top 50 Matches of the 90s column and the Top Ric Flair Matches column.

Posted By: jimmy (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 02:31 AM

 
 
oviously a wwe fan here
1) edge? 1 of the greatest promo men ever and honestly i belive theis generations shawn micheals with his ability in the ring
2) no aj styles or chris daniels?
3)angle should be higher for ability alone
4) whoever put great khali down please never watch wrestling again


Posted By: evin (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 03:54 AM

 
 
you serious?? No Nash you must not been paying Attention the last 12+ yrs

Posted By: Ph3o (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 04:03 AM

 
 
Ric Flair in the number one spot? Wow, didn't see that coming. I wish writers on this site would think for themselves for a change. Flair was great, but terribly overrated.

He was not a transcendent figure. He did not revolutionize wrestling. And in my opinion, he was not the greatest worker that we've ever seen.

If we're talking about the most transcendent and wrestlers awe-inspiring wrestlers of all-time, we're talking about Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Andre the Giant. If we're talking about the most revolutionary of all time, the conversation steers toward Stone Cold Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and more of Hogan, Andre, and The Rock. One might even throw in The Outsiders because of their involvment in the biggest angle in wrestling history.

If we're talking about workrate, I would put Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Macho Man Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, and Ricky Steamboat above Ric Flair.

I don't mean to put down Nature Boy. He had parts of each of those elements that I named. He is also a 16 time world champion. I won't take away the classics he had with Funk, Steamboat, Sting, Savage, and Michaels. Those were iconic matches. But I still feel that with all of that said, he's not number one. In fact, I don't even know if he should crack the top five.

My picks would be:

5. Shawn Michaels

4. Andre the Giant

3. Hulk Hogan

2. Stone Cold Steve Austin

1. Bret Hart


Posted By: Kris (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 04:35 AM

 
 
i thought triple h should have been number 1 or 2 at the most..he is a 12 time champion..and with all due respect to all hhh haters..i dont give a crap about what u think..hhh has made wwe what it is today..u cant compare guys like foley or eddie to triple h..triple h was one side of a coin in the attitude era..the guy is a genius..he was a bodybuilder since he was young..he worked hard all his life..he became a wrestler and addapted..and look at what he became..look at the matches under his belt..no one can match his accomplishments..his reputation as a ring general is absolutely justified..all the people u named in there have been with him in the ring and will admit that hhh is the best..ric flair and hbk say that hhh is the best..who else is there left to argue..hhh was a leader of dx and evolution..he made orton and batista..gave benoit a title run..jobbed to batista and cena at wm 21 22 respectively..all u see in wwe now and all that kids love is what hhh brings to the game..right now why is smackdown gaining so much importance?..coz of the game..he is the reason why alot of people are watching wwe..his attitude is above everything else..why do we miss the rock..or stone cold..the attitude..hhh was just about as great then..now he has climbed up as the king of kings..the guy has come back after 2 injuries which definately would have finished his career if he was a football player or something..but then again..hunter came back..and he proved that no matter what it is..he will be back..and he is a 12 time world champion..with a few more to come..look at how he raises the standard of wwe..

ur rankings are crap..edge is not there..edge has done it all..and he is more accomplished than hbk..not as much as undertaker and hhh only in the entire wwe today..edge gets no credit..hes done so much for wwe over a decade now..

benoit y2j and kurt angle are alot lowly ranked in that list..we shudnt forget that these guys rised through the ranks when alot greater wrestlers were dominating wwe..they worked hard all their lives and benoit managed one world title run while y2j 3..

angle is excepional..he is better than eddie and now people rate him as high as bret hart


Posted By: sid (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 05:26 AM

 
 
You obviously missed:
ANDRE THE GIANT, JERRY LAWLER, TULLY BLANCHARD, ARN ANDERSON, SGT SLAUGHTER, JAKE ROBERTS, ANTONIO INOKI and

Mr. Underated...

BOOKER T why he never gets on these lists i do not understand.

Tons of tag team gold, WCW champ, WWE champ, been on TV for a LONG time back to GCW on ESPN, yet he never gets on these lists.

GIVE BOOKER SOME LOVE


Posted By: Guest#4791 (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 06:18 AM

 
 
The whining these lists always generate never fails to justify creating them in the first place.

Posted By: Dr Domino (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 06:23 AM

 
 
Like the WWE Hall of Fame, this list is a joke because it doesn't include the Dynamite Kid.

Im biased, but most people who saw him would say he's Top 5 all time asily. i'll put it down to you not seeing any of his matches. Try the Tiger Mask series from the early 80s, or if you cant deal with the Japan stuff, check out Dynamite v Bret Hart from th British Bulldogs video. the match is from 1986 but could easily be from 2006. It's miles apart from the matches WWE were putting on at tha time.


Posted By: Pure dynamite (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 08:35 AM

 
 
What's wrong with child murderers?

Geez, people. Calm yourselves already. Benoit is dead and he murdered his family. It's done. It happened. Get over it and move on. Everyone but you internet dorks has.


Posted By: Frankie (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 08:56 AM

 
 
now I also disagree with the list BUT this is HIS opinion so everyone should stop complaining

Posted By: cj (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 09:18 AM

 
 
Why is Eddie on top 25 lists? On this list he is top 10! The man was the Andy Van Slyke of wrestling, a good steady producer that you can hit in the middle of the line up but not one to build a franchise around.

You don't build around Eddie, he just enhances the product.


Posted By: thegunisgood (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 09:29 AM

 
 
How is Austin above Hogan?

Hogan > Austin


Posted By: Burt Price (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 09:34 AM

 
 
A lot of you "ITZ ALL ABOUT THE ATHLETIX!!!!" types need to realize:

You are wrong. VERY wrong.

You need to accept this and move on.


Posted By: Truthspeaker (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 10:29 AM

 
 
Good list, Julian.

Your top 5 is dead on. You jackasses need to realize that everything is not based on workrate/in-ring skill. The truly GREAT ones need to be the best in their era at being entertaining in and out of the ring. That's why the Japaneese wrestlers aren't included. What the fuck are they saying? How can the be completely entertaining if you don't know what they're saying? That's also why your boy Bret Hart isn't #1. Excellent in the ring, boring with a mic (and I've seen all of Bret's career - post Stampede). The fact that he's #5 is a testament to how good of a in-ring talent he is. Hogan, Austin, HBK, and Flair were better total packages, no doubt. Hell, if this was best in-ring wrestler, Ricky Steamboat would and should be number one.

I gotta question Eddie in the top 10. I loved the guy (and miss the shit out of him on my TV), but I'm not sure about him above HHH or Big Dust.

And to the Jackass saying no Japaneese or Mexican wrestlers, last I checked Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio are mexicans. ODELE !


Posted By: Angry Bear (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 10:47 AM

 
 
wow bring jericho and angle in the top ten move flair and hbk out of the way what the hell r u thinking

Posted By: jerad l (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 10:50 AM

 
 
This is his personal opinion and it is the top 25 "wrestlers" of all time, in his eyes. You could argue that this is more than just in ring performing, but also cutting promos, having charisma to get a fan into you, and just enjoying watching the stuff that particular star puts out. No one could make me believe that Hogan was a better in ring performer than Benoit, Jericho, or Steamboat, but what he did for the sport and what he did as far as entertainment in that ring can't be denied.

Posted By: Botts (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 11:18 AM

 
 
Now that you're done clowning around, where's the link to the REAL list???

Posted By: Darren (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 12:28 PM

 
 
Greetings,

I don't know who you leave off of the list, but if there was a best of the rest list Edge needs to be on it.


Posted By: JJN (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM

 
 
Where is Jake Roberts?? How many times do we get subjected to a bad DDT? HOW Many??? I guess by that standard Tim Horner for his school boy should fit in the top 25 huh.
Would make just as much sense.
Vader???
Oh brotherrrrr...


Posted By: Shannon (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 01:46 PM

 
 
lol, this list sucks kangaroo balls. The only one you got right was #1 and that was a given. LOL @ Shawn Michaels being #2. You sir, are a young, ignorant, WWE mark.

This column has now lost the little bit of credibility it had left.

Thank you and good day.


Posted By: Guest#0658 (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 02:56 PM

 
 
"like watching Michaelangelo creating a masterpiece or Beethoven compose his newest symphony"...what type of gay nonsense?

Posted By: Guest#5672 (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 02:58 PM

 
 
poffo316 summed it up...good riddance Julian

Posted By: Guest#3387 (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 03:14 PM

 
 
If you consider workrate, drawing power, mic skills and effect on the industry Flair HAS to be number one. HBK I'd put at #2 because he shares Flair's ability to get something watchable out of any old sack of spuds.

The thing about a lot of the Japanese guys mentioned is that all their best matches were against each other. Misawa/Kobashi vs The Holy Demon Army may be a fantastic match, but I don't see Misawa getting something watchable out of El Gigante. Or anyone at all now he's fat, grumpy and has reduced his moveset to little more than elbows.

I'd certainly have included Cuddly St. Mickles, any aspiring wrestler should be forced to watch Anti Hardcore and Cane Dewey while learning how to promo, he's had some fantastic matches and he's been consistently over despite not having the perfect physique for wrestling.

And whether you're a mark for old school, a zombie for whoever Vince pushes or a purotaku who won't watch anything in English... go find some stuff outside your comfort zone and try to enjoy it.


Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 04:36 PM

 
 
Well first of all great list, seriously great. But you know like others I would also say the same thing, you know by the time HBK winds up, he would be there on the top spot. All respect to Naitch but come on HBK has out on some really great matches and I know Flair carried a company in his shoulders but HBK did the same in a lesser extent with e when wcw was exploding in 94. Plus he was one of the pioneers of the attitude era. He has fought in all sorts of matches like ladder , HIAC. I remember falir fighting in one ladder match and I dont think he ever fought a HIAC match. So thats my opinion, HBK can even fight a scarecrow and out a 5 star match. His promos are funny as well as well as there are the serious promos. He makes a great face and greater as a heel. i would love to see HBK do a heel run before he retires. Good luck Julian and thaks for a great column

Posted By: Nash (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 04:59 PM

 
 
Add Andre, Jerry Lawler, Stan Hansen and the Road Warriors to that list and it would make the greatest Royal Rumble EVER!!!

Posted By: David Burcham (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 05:05 PM

 
 
Sorry to say but this list is really bad.I say Benoit and Angle should have made the Top 10.I agree with Mick Foley and Shawn Michaels.Undertaker should have be #1 and Ric Flair should have been #3.I would remove Hogan from the Top 10.

Posted By: Mark (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 05:24 PM

 
 
The top ten American based World Champions ever. Ranked based on importance:

1. Hulk Hogan
2. Ric Flair
3. Lou Thesz
4. Strangler Lewis
5. Frank Gotch
6. Bruno Sammartino
7. Steve Austin
8. Farmer Burns
9. Verne Gagne
10. Buddy Rogers


Posted By: rafiki (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 08:54 PM

 
 
Appreciate the article, Julian. Who cares what some of the posters say. I always like thinking about things like this, but after I read the list, I was pretty sure it focused on US/Canadian wrestlers, but like others have said, the criteria is not clearly defined.

For me, the criteria is based on how good, diverse, and talented they were in the ring, and how good they were on the mic. Because we're talking about the mic, we cannot really include the Thesz era. No disrespect to Thesz, who I freely acknowledge as the greatest hooker of all time. The current day equivalent of Thesz would probably be Fedor Emanilenko of today/Royce Gracie in his prime in a WWE ring.

To me, HBK is the best of all time. I've always thought that Kurt Angle in his prime was the greatest wrestler who ever lived, and I still do, but I'm really enjoying "old" HBK now, because he's bringing this type of psychology that I haven't seen in the ring in a long time.

I think a great topic for discussion would be something akin to this: In their absolute primes, who was the greatest wrestler of all time? You already know my answer. What's yours ?


Posted By: KrusDef (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 09:51 PM

 
 
Cena Not On there Cause He Can't Wrestle, Although i am the huggest foley fan, When it comes to Wrestling... enough said, yeash he's hardcore, but i dunno, Hogan was a great entertainer but he actually wasn't the best wrestler, cudos for Falir @ #1 there the totally [package

Posted By: Nicoteen (Guest)  on August 13, 2008 at 09:55 PM

 
 
Agree with the many on the list especially number one position-but shouldn't Barry Windham be somewhere on the List?

Posted By: Guest#3044 (Guest)  on August 14, 2008 at 12:31 AM

 
 
Weird list. Is it about "wrestling ability", overall-total package stuff, the ones that were most over or the ones that were the most important? If "most important" or "most over", Hogan would definitely be number 1. If "wrestling ability", he wouldn't be in top 10. As "total package", Kurt Angle as #1. Flair or HBK in top 10, sure, none as #1 in neither category.

Also unless you've got any evidence or voting or whatever, don't try to force your choice on people as "the best ever", they're just your favorites.


Posted By: Guest#1102 (Guest)  on August 14, 2008 at 01:31 PM

 
 
you should do top ten royal rumbles if you get the chance

Posted By: aj (Guest)  on August 15, 2008 at 08:11 PM

 
 
C'mon, another writer who believes that his opinion counts, if this writer could write in his 2 cents then so could I. Dude seriously Austin over bret, dude, Austin fought funny he fell funny, I give Austin credit, he has his attitude. Ric Flair oh my god, Ill pass my comment on that one.
1)Bret Hart
2)Kurt Angle
3)Shawn Michaels
4)Austin
5)Hogan
6)Undertaker
7)Randy Savage
8)Sting
9)Flair
10)Jericho
HHH SUX, here is my opinion


Posted By: REBEL (Guest)  on August 19, 2008 at 04:49 AM

 
 
You dont agree or not but the others may, here is my top 10 list
1. Undertaker
2. Stone Cold
3. Rock
4. HHH
5. Batista
6. HBK
7. John Cena
8. Ric
9. Hogan
10.Jeff Hardy


Posted By: honey (Guest)  on October 29, 2008 at 12:47 PM

 
 
1. Steve Austin- The highest grossing wrestler of all time. The best wrestler draws the most money, therefore Steve Austin is number 1.
2. Ricky Steamboat
3. Ric Flair
4. Shawn Michaels
5. Bryan Danielson


Posted By: Johnny (Guest)  on August 28, 2009 at 09:17 PM

 


www.41mania.com
Copyright © 2005 411mania.com, LLC. All rights reserved.
Click here for our privacy policy. Please help us serve you better, fill out our survey.
Use of this site signifies your agreement to our terms of use.