Ask 411 Wrestling 08.13.08: Exaggerated Weights, Ratings Drops and...Electric Fans?

Posted by Chris Lansdell on 08.13.2008

Steroids, bisexuals, incest angles, free rehab, Roseanne, backstage heat...yup, definitely sounds like a 411 Staff Party.

Greetings, humanity! Welcome back to the improved and now all-definitive Ask 411! I am your host, the ubiquitous Chris Lansdell, and I'm recovering from a bumper weekend of posting. Between the Round Table, the Instant Analysis, the Brunch, and a special interview for the 411 MySpace page by none other than the legendary JT. I'm surprised I found time to sleep this weekend. Oh wait.

Got together with the guys on Saturday for my first poker game in several months. I made it to heads-up play and went all in on A-K suited. I was behind in chips but only by a little. My buddy Double G calls and has A-Q off-suit. Ace comes in the flop, and then the farking river was a Queen. $10 up the chute. Still, the air was blue with humour and a good time was had by all, especially the pre-match Rock Band jam with me banging seven shades of shit out of the drums on Welcome Home and When You Were Young.
 
But enough about me, let's talk about you, and all the wonderful things that you and I can do. I popped some cash and in a little bit of time, I showed the cash and the girl was mine. Sorry, flashbacks. BANNER!
 

 
From the peanut gallery…
 
 I get the impression that Lesnar and Batista may have faced off in OVW. I also feel like Jason Sensation played Owen Hart in the DX Nation parody. Not sure where I'm getting these feelings from though.
 
Um, no. The Light Heavyweight title was never unified with anything. The WWE just chose to ignore it because it had zero history and was held by freakin' X-Pac. It just disappeared and they only recognized the Cruiserweight title. No unification match happened. Yes, the titles were unified at SummerSlam 2001 but were once again split up.

Posted By: Jeremy (Guest)  on August 05, 2008 at 11:57 PM

Ummm, you say they were never unified, then say they were. Which is it? They most certainly WERE, because I have the tape right next to me where Kidman beat X-Pac to unify them.

The origin of the moss-covered three-handled family grudunza is taken from Dr. Seuss' "The Cat in the Hat". This is what makes Jericho EVEN fucking cooler. Though, I'm not sure about those new tights...
 
Posted By: The Doctor is in (Guest)  on August 06, 2008 at 01:04 AM
 
Actually I like the new look. He needed to distinguish himself from Y2J Jericho and the speedo look does that. Takes a bit of getting used to though.
 
One question I was wondering since reading Bret Hart's book is whether Bret Hart has ever faced Dusty Rhodes. They did mention that he came in to replace someone on a tour of Japan, but not that they ever faced each other. The only other time period that they could have faced each other was during the WWF Polka-Dot period, but as I recall, they were both faces.
 
You're doing a good job with the column, don't listen to the haters. I like how you faced the criticism head on and admit when you don't have an answer and turn it over to the readers.
 
Posted By: Scott NM (Guest)  on August 06, 2008 at 01:56 AM
 
Thanks for the support. Haters do not bother me, I find them funny. You should see the stuff that gets emailed. As for Rhodes facing Bret, they WERE both faces for the duration of Dusty's WWF run, and Bret was on Dusty's team at Survivor Series '90, in the same match that featured the début of The Undertaker. Some of Piper's lines on commentary on seeing ‘Taker for the first time were gold, my favourite being "No, he doesn't look friendly at all."
 
When you mentioned the referee messing up the count not and vacated title happening with Backlund-Valentine not happening today...
 
It did. Sort of. http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehistory/women/4598286
 
The story that buzzed around the internet was, that as had been mentioned earlier, the referees were told to make things more legit and less scripted (i.e. illegal tags and no off time counts like 1...2......3. I forget if either Victoria didn't kick out early enough or Melina didn't break up the pin. They then had Coach cover for it.)
 
Not positive if this is the truth, however, as I've never seen the end of the triple threat. As mentioned, it was the final day of the tour, so what better way to get people talking and back next run than title changes that wouldn't effect anything important or TV?)
 
Posted By: Jimmy (Guest)  on August 06, 2008 at 05:06 AM
 
The Valentine-Backlund thing was more a case of the referee awarding the match to the wrong person than a botched count. Two botched counts that come to mind in the last few years: the ending of the Hardcore Battle Royale at Mania 2000, with Hardcore Holly pinning Crash as time ran down and the ref slapping the 3 before the buzzer; and the Kurt Angle-Undertaker match where the three count and Taker tapping out were supposed to be simultaneous...and weren't.
 
There is a guy who works for Atlas Security, the security guards who worked for ECW and on the first One Night Stand PPV, who looks almost exactly like Don West. I was confused about it myself for a while, but if you watch some of the real ECW's final shows (last year or so) you can see the guy working the crowd. I couldn't tell you what his name is, but he has a lot more grey hair than West which illustrates the difference.
 
Posted By: 333 (Guest)  on August 06, 2008 at 12:35 PM
 
A few people pointed this out, thanks to all of you. I can see that I am going to have to start paying attention to security, crowd members, paramedics and the like to keep up with these questions! I already pay attention to theme music, weights and towns, commentary slips and the like, so it won't be anything new. Where's JP when you need him?
 
The WCW Hardcore title was retired even before Vince bought the company when WCW put it on Haku/Meng while he was out of contract and Vince promptly signed him.

Sadly Vince signing Meng never lead to the epic feud with Rhino... Bush vs Gore.

Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest)  on August 06, 2008 at 12:55 PM
 
Have you learned nothing!!!??!!one!??!1!! Russo reads the intarwebz for his story ideas! He also has Consequences Creed under contract! DO YOU NOT FATHOM WHAT YOU HAVE DONE???question mark?
 

QUESTIONS

Mike H has a story of meeting Matt Hardy, and a question we'll get to later.
 
I feel I may have indirectly contributed to the downfall of Hardy/Lita and here's why. SummerSlam 2004. Matt Hardy fought Kane in a brutal match, despite the fact that his knee was injured and he would be having surgery, putting him out of action for some time. Now it was common knowledge that he had this injury, and I remember reading here on 411 how many people backstage were praising his great effort. So the next night RAW was taking place in my home town of London, Ontario, and like many fans I went to the arena in the afternoon to watch the wrestlers arrive and get autographs. I was standing against the guardrail beside a friend of mine when Matt Hardy and Lita were going to walk by. I noticed Matt had an obvious limp. Now I KNEW that he was injured, I had read it the night before. But all that passed through my mind at the time was that he had just gone through a brutal match with Kane the night before and was walking by all these fans. I figured he was maintaining kayfabe. So I lean over to my buddy and said "He's probably faking it." Well I guess I must've been a little louder than I thought because Matt stopped in his tracks and shot me the biggest death glance EVER. He then proceeded to storm in the arena while ignoring Lita who was trying to calm him down. That night he ran out to a huge pop and gave Kane a Twist of Fate with more gusto than I've ever seen. This was the last time we would see him before all the drama would happen, including his break up with Lita...looking back I can't help but feel that maybe I contributed by pissing him off so that he ignored Lita. Who knows, maybe they got into an argument inside the arena after that and he pushed her away! I don't know but I can't help but feel guilty. It is my goal to someday apologize to him, and hope that he doesn't punch me in the teeth.

Yeah I can understand his reaction to that. I think you can rest a bit more comfortably about helping the split though. Lita and Edge were seeing each other for a while before the story broke. And don't worry about your apology – if Matt is as big into the internet as he used to be, you just KNOW he reads 411mania!
 
On to the questions! Josh offers a theory about TNA and their static ratings:
 
Everyone cries about how TNA needs to do this to compete with wwe, or that to compete, they're stupid for not doing this to compete.  I offer this for your approval, Maybe They're Not Trying to Compete.  Honestly, perhaps the smartest thing they can do is realize that they're always a number 2.  Kind of an Arena League versus NFL, if you will.  They're making a profit now and are on a night where there is traditionally no tv shows opposite them.  Do I wish for a better product? Yes. Am I going to boycott TNA because Russo is there? No. Discretion is the better part of valour.
 
I see what you're getting at, but I don't agree. Substitute RoH for TNA and sure, you have a point. TNA though have done everything they can think of in order to try and beat even one WWE show consistently. I do agree that they should realise that they cannot beat WWE though. At least, not yet. With the slump that the economy is in, there is little room for anything to grow, and wrestling is not exempt from that. Maybe when things turn around financially they can make a move and become a serious threat to WWE, but now is not the time.
 
Diablo4ever99 wants to know about people who are not liked, and one other question.
1. Who was/is the most unpopular guy backstage? I've heard in the past that Grandmaster Sexay / Brian Christopher and the Jackyl / Cyrus the Virus were two very disliked superstars who were constantly harassed by locker room enforcer, Bradshaw. Any confirmation on this or any other guys?
 
The Wrestler's Court and hazing procedures these days normally do a pretty good job of beating any sort of unlikeable shit out of new guys, with the notable recent exception being Randy Orton. Orton has had heat (before proofreading, that sentence read "has had head", which raises a whole new set of questions) with almost everyone outside his circle of friends, mostly young guys who came up with him. Since getting married he has settled down a great deal. Grand Master Sexay was disliked because he was a practical joker whose jokes were not funny (unlike say, Owen Hart who always made sure his pranks were harmless. Mostly.), and because he thought being Jerry Lawler's son entitled him to a lot more than he was getting. Callis was just plain arrogant. Shame because he was entertaining. Matt Hardy confirmed that Callis had a lot of heat in his (Matt's) shoot interview, and mentioned a couple of things he was told to do by Bradshaw as a joke. In fact when asking for his release Callis cited the treatment he was getting from the other guys. Other people who had heat? Ultimate Warrior was always isolating himself when he became champion, even more than people like Hulk Hogan did. This led to virtually everyone waiting for the moment he left. Shawn and HHH were pretty much wanted men after the Screwjob, particularly by Undertaker, Rick Rude and Vader. 

2. Has Triple H ever beat the Undertaker?
 
Yes, a few times. HHH and The Rock beat 'Taker and Angle by DQ at a house show in Norfolk, VA on January 29, 2002. He teamed with Maven (!!!) to beat Taker and Angle by DQ in February of that year as well. He pinned him clean at Insurrextion, a UK-only PPV, in late August of 2002.
 
While researching that question, I came upon the HILARIOUS result of Chyna defeating Undertaker and Triple H for the #1 Contendership, 9 years ago last Saturday. Which leads smoothly into our nest question from mrkatapat:
Did Chyna ever took advantage of the WWE rehab program?
 
Not yet. The door is open for her to do so, but when the policy that allowed former talent to go into rehab on Vince's dime was announced, she was already committed to the Celebrity Rehab show. It's an indication of her state of mind when she'd rather go on a reality show to get better than do it in private, for free. So far Sean Waltman, Scott Hall, Jake Roberts and Ron Simmons have taken advantage of the program.
 
C'mon back Mike H!
 
A business partner of mine who was involved in the wrestling business recently told me that it is common knowledge within the industry that Vince McMahon is actually bi-sexual. He even referenced that something went on between Vince and Pat Patterson! Have you ever heard anything of this nature?
 
Let's look at what we know about Vince. On one hand, he's a noted lecher who has hit on everyone from Moolah to Melina. He has made out with Trish Stratus in front of his semi-aware wife. He has 2, sorry 3 children and is a genetic jackhammer. He puts on bikini showdowns and bra and panties matches for his own personal enjoyment.  On the other hand, he tossed Big Show's salad on pay per view, we know he loves cocks, he hired a large Samoan in a thong to shake his ass at the camera and grind it into people's faces, he has his own personal ass buffer and has forced numerous men to kiss aforementioned ass. It's a safe bet that he enjoys shopping on both sides of the street.
 
Lots of things are "common knowledge within the industry" to people who actually have no knowledge of the industry. In all seriousness, Vince has a long marriage to Linda and 2 children besides. As Gorilla Monsoon would say, "Highly unlikely." Besides, why would he hide it? We're talking about Vince McMahon here, the guy who would do anything to sell tickets. In today's permissive society, if Vince was bi he would be proclaiming it from every rooftop. Hardly anyone would believe it. They'd be proclaiming it a work, and they'd all be watching to see what he did next. I can guarantee you it would be announced LIVE on Raw. Until we get a former lover coming out in the press, we'll file this under "No chance...no chance in hell."

Pat Patterson is involved in several sleazy urban myths, but one of the more popular (and likely) ones is that he is/was involved with the Brooklyn Brawler. I cannot see Vince and Pat being involved somehow.

Jason provides us with our weekly dose of old school.
1. i remember a Storyline with Goldberg back in WCW that Goldberg would have to match his Undefeated Streak in order for him to get a Title Shot but if he Lost a match along the way he would be gone from WCW. i believe Russo made that Stipulation. anyway when Goldberg Lost to Luger and Bagwell with the help of Mace i might add when he Lost to them at WCW Syn in 2001 he was to leave WCW, my question is this. if WCW didn't go out of Business did WCW have Plans to bring Goldberg back in some way or was he gone for good?
 
Goldberg needed shoulder surgery, so the loss was merely a way to get him off the air while he had the surgery and rehabbed. Of course, the sale went through in the interim and scuppered any plans that Russo had. Not that Russo ever planned beyond the next week.
 
2. I know this is Probably a Stupid Question but do u think Scott Steiner Used Steroids back in WCW to get his Arms as Big as they were?
 
Yes. Yes I do.
 
3. Brutus Beefcake was to face the Honky Tonk Man at SummerSlam 88 for the IC Title but because Beefcake got injured form Ron Bass he couldn't fight at SummerSlam. instead the Ultimate Warrior took Honky up on his Challenge and beat him for the IC Title. but why did WWF decide to go with the Warrior to take the Strap of Honky rather than Beefcake?
 
Beefcake's injury was a work, and it was done to facilitate the change in challengers. Vince had this immensely popular phenom on his hands in Ultimate Warrior, and he knew that he had to put a belt on him ASAP before the fans lost interest. There are only so many times you can have a guy demolish a jobber before people lose interest. Right, Mark Henry? Having decided to take the IC belt of Honky, it was the obvious place for Warrior to be slotted in. Plus, Brutus sucked and only had his spot because of Hogan.
 
leufpot (seriously guys, include a name in your questions so I don't have to go by email addresses) is looking for alumni info:
Why was Nidia fired?
 
Nothing sinister, it was just one of WWE's (in)famous "fire sales" where they purge a whole ton of talent that wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. How Val Venis, Funaki and The Highlanders have escaped so far is a mystery to many. It was seen as something of a surprise at the time, as was Maven's release when that happened. Personally I think they were both talented.
 
Why did Booker T job to Triple H at Summer Slam' 07? Or whatever match it was before Booker T went to TNA.
 
It was indeed SummerSlam 2007. Hard to believe it was only a year ago. The loss was as much to do with Triple H returning and needing a win as it was to punish Booker for the Signature Pharmacy deal. Booker didn't leave WWE officially until October. HHH was just returning from blowing out his other quad and Booker had been referring to himself as the King of Kings since winning the triple threat champion vs champion vs champion match at Cyber Sunday AND the King of the Ring AND taking out Jerry Lawler. HHH took exception. I would have though HBK would too, what with the King of Kings being someone else in his eyes, but what do I know? I just watch the stuff.
 
A very talented man who rejoices in the pseudonym  Big Sexy Jude Terror, The Rock N' Roll Icon, has two questions and a shameless plug. He included flattery, so the plug gets printed. It's not hard, folks.

1. When is Chris Hyatte coming back to 411wrestling? Isn't he due for a return? Can you track him down or something?
 
I referred this question to the one and only Larry Csonka, who owns all our souls here in the Wrestling Zone and lets us out for writing and an hour of exercise a day.
 
Larry says:
A. Never.
Larry says:
2. No.
Larry says:
IV. Likely, but there would be no need to.
 
Larry Csonka, ladies and gentlemen. Contrary to popular belief, a man of few words.

2. Counting the viewers of both RAW (7s and 8s) and Nitro (3s and 4s) during the high point of the Monday Night Wars, wrestling in general was scoring 10-12s in the ratings on a weekly basis. I understand that some of these people were casual fans attracted by the hype of wrestling at the time, but seriously, the audience has dwindled to a third of what it once was. What do you think was the most important factor in wrestling's decline into mediocrity? What's your guess on when the next boom will come? Mine is not until after Vince is retired - I think his time is done, at least in a creative control role.
 
Well, with Raw (3.3 or so), Smackdown (2.4) and ECW (1.2), WWE alone pulls almost a 7, which is over half. Impact gets another 1. That said, it's undoubtedly true that wrestling ratings are in a slump. The biggest factor in my mind is the lack of a star that transcends wrestling, an uber star if you will. There is no Hogan, no Austin, no Rock right now, and who knows if there ever will be again? I can tell you that when two of that person show up, the boom will follow. One on their own is no good: he needs a foil of the same magnitude. If you have mediocre talent, you will have mediocre ratings. There's more to it than that, but it's a whole article to itself.
 
An old friend of Lansdell columns, JLAJRC has a couple of questions:

Who was the fake NWO Sting?
 
He went by a number of gimmicks, first as Lightning in the short-lived muscle-bound tag team of Thunder and Lightning. They mainly fought on WCW International and actually looked pretty impressive. His next gimmick was as JTTS Cobra, before donning the paint and trench coat. Dude's real name is Jeff Farmer.
 
Recently, someone reviewed Summerslam 88 on 411mania. During the British Bulldogs/Fabulous Rougeaous match review, he mentioned a backstage feud between the two teams. Can you give us more details on this?

I can. The heat backstage was based on Curt Hennig talking Dynamite into slapping the taste out of Jacques Rougeau's mouth, saying that Jacques pulled a prank on him (it was in fact Hennig who did it). Rougeau had had enough and socked Dynamite in the mouth, causing him to lose some teeth. Dynamite is and was the kind to hold a grudge, so he planned to get his own back in his last WWF match at Survivor Series 88. Both teams were in the 10-man elimination tag, on opposite sides, and Dynamite had plans to shoot on Rougeau. Word got back to Vince and company, who arranged for Bret Hart to pin one of the Rougeaux in the opening minute of the match. The Bulldogs were one of the last teams eliminated, and by the time a livid Dynamite got back to the dressing room, Jacques and Ray were high-tailing it out of town. The whole incident is outlined in Bret's excellent autobiography.
 
David has an obscure one for me:
 
So, as a kid I watched a video on which there was a segment featuring Roddy Piper, where he was either told or he told someone else that all their fans were outside. Upon opening the door, Piper/other person found that someone had set up a load of electric fans. I remember finding it very funny, but cannot recall the details of who else was involved or on what show it occurred. Any help?
 
Oh my God I remember this! It was funny at the time, that's for sure. Hulk Hogan's Rock n Wrestling, my friend. The only place you could get away with the bad guys all being foreigners. Well, mostly. Fuji and Andre were gold. Bonus random fact: The voice of Hulk Hogan in the cartoons was none other than "Everybody Loves Raymond" co-star Brad Garrett.
 
Robbie reminds me of something that I had hoped to forget:
 
Feel free to tell me that I am crazy but in the back of my mind, I could swear that in the lead up to either WrestleMania VII or WrestleMania VIII, they were advertising an appearance by the domestic goddess herself, Roseanne.  I have never been able to find anything to confirm it, but I remember Mean Gene mentioning it in one of the weekly updates, most likely on Superstars of Wrestling.  Is this completely fabricated in my mind or was she ever promoted at any point as being a special celebrity guest?
 
This is tied to Roseanne's memorable performance of the Star-Spangled Banner in September 1990. WrestleMania VII was the following spring and the talk was that Vince wanted to bring in Roseanne as a joke to do America the Beautiful. He ended up going with Willie Nelson instead since at this point, he still had control of his mental faculties. We're just lucky this didn't happen in the last 5 years, or he might have brought her and Carl Lewis in to do a trio with Jillian. There was never any promotion around it, but it was considered.
 
MHSRebelFootball, which I presume is a reference to an American high school football team, has two questions.
 
I have two questions.
 
Told you.
 
remember when Beth Phoenix first debuted on RAW, she was involved in a storyline with Mickie James and she kept screaming "You are not going to get away with this Mickie!" What did she get away with?
 
We never found out. Before the storyline could develop, Beth took a nasty shot to the jaw on one of her early appearances doing a run-in to save Trish Stratus and was out for months By the time she came back, Mickie had turned face so Beth was left as a heel, and whatever they had planned didn't fit the face-heel dynamic they had in place at the time. The popular opinion was that Beth was going to play either a jilted lover or someone that Mickie had held down to get her spot in WWE.

Does Vince McMahon still want to do an incest storyline with Katie Lea and Paul Burchill? Because it seems they are not leading towards that storyline any more.
 
Vince has wanted to do an incest storyline for years. He pitched the idea to Ken and Ryan Shamrock, and Ken turned it down. He's also wanted to do one with Stephanie, allegedly, even considering revealing her as Hornswaggle's mother and using the incest thing as a reason for his dwarfism. Thank God THAT one never saw the light of day. Katie and Paul were initially slated for the incest angle, along the lines of Cruel Intentions (a movie containing far more hot than should be allowed). The thing is with such a controversial angle, it has to be VERY subtle and very careful, or the FCC and parents' groups everywhere will be on him like Small on Khali. I would be shocked if Vince had dropped the angle, and if you pay close attention you can see subtle hints to the forbidden love between the two when they cut promos. They probably could have done better with a few short vignettes for the pair (instead of some of the interminable recaps), but hindsight is 20-20.
 
I have to answer Jack the Ripper's questions. He scares me.
 
1.Does WWE bill their wrestlers different from their actual weight? I look at guys like CM Punk, Jericho and John Morrison and though pushed as heavyweights look like they could compete in the cruiserweight division as they all look like their under the 225 lbs mark and I believe that's the maximum weight for a cruiserweight.
 
The traditional cruiserweight limit is 100 kilos, or 220 pounds. To answer your question though, they certainly do tend to fabricate weights. If you pay close attention, wrestler's weights rarely change when they are announced. Triple H was announced at 275 long after he started looking…Well, and Hogan was 303 for almost his entire uber face run. You've also got guys like Michaels who MIGHT be 210 soaking wet with a brick in each pocket being announced at 220. When they still announced his weight, I don't think they do now. It's not uncommon in sports to do this– Charles Barkley was billed at 6'6 for most of his NBA career, but was really around 6'4.
 
2.Do you see Evan Bourne ever being the WWE's version of AJ Styles?
 
I don't know if you've seen any ROH, but Styles actually had a big influence on Sydal/Bourne's career, both kayfabe and for real. The major difference between them is that Bourne has a smaller body in a company where bigger guys are favoured, whereas Styles came to prominence in a fledgling TNA who had never really had a giant champion (even today their biggest champ is Abyss) or a lot of big guys on the roster. Plus AJ's bigger frame and more convincing punches make his matches more believable and less hyperactive spotfests, which is something of which the RoH Sydal was guilty. I can't get ECW here at a sensible hour, so I haven't seen a lot of his WWE run and I keep forgetting it's online. Bourne can go places and do things if he can overcome the handicap of his size. He's connected well with the fans, from what I've heard, and that's a great first step…but how many titles has that won the Hardy Boyz? I can't see him succeeding to the extent his former partner AJ Styles has succeeded, or becoming the WWE's version of him, but he will do well.
 
3.There was an incident during the time when Evolution was around where Ric Flair on a segment referred to Tajiri as a "Jap". >From what I hear it's a derogatory statement for Asian Americans. Now I'm not trying to play no race card by any means but I was wondering was any action taken and do main event talent get more le-way with stuff like this than someone that's lower card?
 
No official action was taken by WWE for this incident, at least none that was released to the public. As for the boys in the back and the Wrestler's Court…I would doubt it. Flair has the respect of virtually every wrestler to ever step in a ring and is likely immune to the peer punishment that is prevalent in the WWE locker room.
 
As for main eventers getting more leeway than the lower card guys…absolutely they do. You've got guys like Randy Orton busting up hotels, constantly injuring himself, getting spared from his second strike on Wellness and generally being a douche, and he gets title runs. Robbie McAllister gets caught on camera at Impact and is not seen on TV for months. I'd be very, VERY interested to see how many Wellness tests Batista has taken and passed.

And with that, I bid you a fond adieu boys and girls. Keep the questions rolling, I still have 31 to answer but I will gladly accept more. Until next week, keep Asking 411!

Lansdellicious – Out.