411’s Buy or Sell 8.22.08: Hirooki Goto, Delirious in Age of the Fall, The Briscoes, and More!!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 08.22.2008

The 411 staff will look back at last weekend’s Ring of Honor shows and take a look at some Japan happenings as Samuel Berman battles Alex Mattis!

Welcome everyone to WEEK Seventy of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.


Week Seventy's Match-Up:
411's Resident The Cool Kids' Table's Samuel Berman vs. The Sunday Sparwler and Best of the Rest Writer Alex Mattis!

Hirooki Goto was booked to win the G1 Climax was so that the IWGP Title match on All Japan's 8/22 show will not overshadow the AJPW Triple Crown match.

Samuel Berman : SELL. I'm not as up on New Japan as I should be, so I went to The Cool Kids' Table's Brad Garoon for this one. His assessment was that Goto's victory made sense because he had already faced Muto, and so his involvement would be more reasonable for All Japan fans. Also, Suwama's defense against Taiyo Kea isn't really the most crucial defense for him, and with Muto being a bigger star than Suwama anyway, it really doesn't matter who the IWGP Heavyweight Title challenger is. Brad did want me to be sure to note that he did think Goto was an unlikely tournament winner, considering it was his first time in the field and he had been the 4th man down the challenger totem pole at best.

Alex Mattis : SELL. Now outside of NOAH I don't regularly keep up with too much in Japan, but am familiar with this situation and have a little to say on the subject. Just like my partner said Mutoh is a much bigger star in Japan's wrestling history that Suwama. So regardless of the IWGP heavyweight title being defended Mutoh's match would just be more important than Suwama's by default. But, like was said, Goto was an unlikely winner for the tournament so his victory and involvement in the Triple Crown match does help build the intrigue of the match, so I could see where one could Buy this claim.

1 for 1.

Necro Butcher's FIP return will involve some altercation with Tyler Black.

Samuel Berman : SELL. Though Ring of Honor officials have noted that the FIP-ROH relationship is stronger in 2008 than ever before, I don't necessarily think that they're going to unify the storylines to the level that ROH angles will directly advance on FIP shows. Necro has thus far had little issue with Tyler, and having them interact in Florida in a major altercation would thus advance that aspect of the Age of the Fall breakup too much outside of an ROH ring.

Alex Mattis : SELL. I'm just basing this opinion off of FIP's history in regards to their treatment of angles outside of their promotion. Just because they are tied to ROH doesn't mean they recognize the same feuds and what not, it hasn't been uncommon to see people that were feuding in ROH teaming together in FIP. I mean the only feuds in recent memory that stick out as going from promotion to promotion are the Homicide-Trent Acid and Chris Hero-Eddie Kingston feuds, both were amazing... but I digress. Necro's real problem lies with Jimmy Jacobs, so I don't see there being a need for a Butcher-Black altercation.

2 for 2.

Continuously booking Go Shiozaki for title matches is doing more harm than good for Shiozaki.

Samuel Berman : BUY. I really don't get this one from a booking standpoint. While Go has had a number of solid-to-good matches since debuting as a regular for Ring of Honor, he hasn't really done anything to establish himself as a title threat. And yet, somehow he continues to be positioned opposite ROH's various champions. As much as ROH continues to note that 'Shiozaki's tour won't be a success unless he wins gold', I just don't see how he can be ahead of half-a-dozen other competitors in the 'Should Win a Title' line. Furthermore, having him burn various title shots over and over in an attempt to work that angle only serves to make Shiozaki look like a loser, a label he may have trouble shedding later on.

Alex Mattis : SELL. Sell and sell again. Constantly booking title matches for any wrestler can do harm to them, and do harm to the image of the title they are going after. One - Go is losing and losing and losing, how can this be good for anyone that the company wants to get over? Two - when you lose your shot at the title shouldn't that put you back down at the bottom, thus starting your climb back to another shot? After a while it may seem to the fans like he is being handed title shots, and we already know what is going to happen. I understand the angle behind Shiozaki going after gold, but after awhile the long term effects on the character and the title may be more important than the current angle.

2 for 3.

SWITCH~!

Sweet N' Sour Inc's act has grown way too stale in Ring of Honor.

Alex Mattis : SELL. I may be a bit biased due to my love for Larry Sweeney, but as long as he is the mouth piece for this faction I don't see how it could "grow stale." It has served as the foundation of many stars and feuds as of late, and many of the company's top stars have had some sort of interaction with the faction at one time or another. I understand that too much of a good thing can eventually go bad, but as long as ROH is faction drive I see it having a place for Sweet & Sour Inc.

Samuel Berman : BUY. Though I see Alex's point about Sweeney being awesome (which he is), Sweet 'n Sour has gotten to the point where they're just shuffling the members and recycling the feuds. Roderick Strong is jumping through the same hoops right now that Claudio Castagnoli did a year ago, and that's not a good way to move to the future. The problem with Sweet 'n Sour is that ROH continues to have Sweeney himself be the end-all-be-all of the group, even when it doesn't make sense. For instance, Strong really doesn't have any issue with him, and should be completely focused on getting a match with Davey Richards. And yet, Strong was still trying to earn a match with Sweeney? Why? What might actually freshen up Sweet 'n Sour is to turn Chris Hero face and move Claudio Castagnoli into the group.

2 for 4.

Delirious needed to align himself with The Age of the Fall more than they needed him to join.

Alex Mattis : SELL. The AOTF is, and will to continue to be, doing fine with what they have. Delirious is still one of the top individuals stars in the company, and on the indy scene in general for that matter. I don't see why either would need to align with one another at this point. Not to mention, I don't see how the Delirious character would work well with anyone for an elongated period of time. I just don't see how it would work, and like I said I don't think it needs to happen in the first place.

Samuel Berman : SELL. I disagree with Alex in that I loved the move and think Delirious fits perfectly with the rest of the Age of the Fall. That said, neither needed the move more than the other, this was just the perfect confluence of events and a great move for everyone. With the development of Tyler Black as a technical talent over the past year, the inclusion of the Necro Butcher in the Age of the Fall had become something of an ankle weight for the group, as having him involved in any multi-man matches required an abrupt change in styles. Delirious, who can still brawl with the best of them, has no such issues, and needing a change of pace himself, works perfectly as the group's third man. Great move by Ring of Honor.

3 for 5.

The Briscoes part of the feud with The Age of the Fall will finally end at Glory by Honor VII.

Alex Mattis : BUY . Glory By Honor has always seemed to serve as the WrestleMania of ROH. Some of their biggest moments, matches, and feud payoffs have happened at the event. Memories that come to mind are Danielson finally winning the title from James Gibson, ROH debut in the Manhattan Center among other things. That being said, the Briscoes-AOTF feud has been one of the hottest, and biggest, feuds in recent history. Of course this is just my opinion, but I have truly enjoyed the work these two teams have put in. I think this great feud will come down to one great big "final encounter," and I believe that said match will take place at this year's Glory By Honor.

Samuel Berman : SELL . I actually think that Final Battle or Death Before Dishonor have been far more reasonable stand-ins for Wrestlemania over the years, but that's neither here nor there. The Briscoes' issue with the Age of the Fall has been going for nearly a year, halted by circumstance and injury at various points. Even if it wasn't the original plan, it's probably time for that feud to get laid to rest. Of course, given my penchant for calling this Age of the Fall vs. Aries/Briscoes/etc. feud completely wrong, that probably means it won't happen. I'd bet the Briscoes get pulled in to one more match down the line, possibly an additional elimination match once Necro Butcher is completely turned face.

3 for 6!


The Seventieth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 3 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.