Brooklyn Brawlin 9.03.08 : On Second Thought - Wrestlemania Matches That Were NOT to Be
Posted by Dan Torkel on 09.03.2008
The best matches on the biggest show... that never happened.
Greetings to everyone. Boy, a few weeks ago everything was safe in the world of wrestling. Now John Cena is out for 3 months and Shawn Michaels is facing a 4 - 6 absence after tearing his triceps muscle on Raw. The spill he took out of the ring was particularly nasty. Despite the injury, Shawn will go through with his match with Jericho at Unforgiven. THANK GOD. Because I need to see that match like YESTERDAY. I was at Summerslam in 2002 when Shawn and Triple H had their classic unsanctioned match, and I cannot even wait for this one. This is simply the most perfectly built feud in years, going through nearly 7 months of awesome promos and even better in ring action. With Shawn injured, I can only assume Jericho will win, although at this point he should really move onto to Punk and win the World Title. The Shawn injury could set up nicely for a Wrestlemania blow off.
And speaking of Wrestlemania blow offs, I was thinking about some of the biggest WWE matches ever: The Hogan/Andre's of the world. My friend and I were watching an old Nitro from 97 where they booked Hogan/Piper for Halloween Havoc, appropriately dubbed, "Age in a Cage," when my friend goes, "This really should've been the Main Event for Wrestlemania." When I told him they main evented all over the country in 1985 he responded with, "Yes, But fucking Wrestlemania." I think he made a good point. So I decided to come up with a list of Wrestlemania could-have been match ups.
Wrestlemania - 1985
- Intercontinental Title - Steel Cage: (c) Greg "the Hammer" Valentine vs. Tito Santana
This never made any sense to me. Valentine won the title and severely injured Chico in mid 1984 and Tito rehabbed and came back with one goal, destroy Greg Valentine and win back the coveted title. The thing that irks me most of all, was that the Steel Cage match Santana wins the belt back occurred literally a few weeks after Wrestlemania. With Vince unsure of the success for this huge first time event, why not blow off all the huge feuds. Instead Vince ran Tito out for the historic first win over the masked Executioner, and Valentine took a count out loss to Junk Yard Dog. JYD was hugely over and could have easily slid into Tito's spot in the opener.
- WWF Title - (c) Hulk Hogan vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
This one could go either way. Part of selling the original Wrestlemania was the involvement or Mr. T but a true one on one title match between hated rivals should've headlined the granddaddy of them all.
Wrestlemania IV - 1988
- WWF Title - (c) Hulk Hogan vs. "Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase OR Andre the Giant
This requires tossing away the LOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG title tournament, and the epic double referee angle from The Main Event. This is simply building to the either Hogan defending against his most hated rival who stands for everything he hates (Dibiase) or the biggest rematch ever against Andre. The rest of the card could've been redone like the Wrestlemania V card.
Wrestlemania VIII - 1992
- WWF Title - (c) Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan
This one harkens back to my very first column and is a huge missed opportunity for Vince and company. The two biggest stars of the 1980's should have highlighted the biggest show of the year. That would have set up...
- Macho Man vs. Jake "the Snake" Roberts: No DQ
This hot angle from the second half of 1991 should have been stretched out till Wrestlemania for the blow off.
Wrestlemania XI - 1995
- WWF Title - "I Quit" Match - (c) Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
I never understood this one. Owen beat Bret at WM X. Owen won the King of the Ring tournament in 1994, and lost a classic cage match by the skin of his teeth at Summerslam. With their vendetta tied at 1 - 1, they should have held off the Bret --> Backlund --> Diesel switch and had this epic blow off to one of the great feuds ever.
Wrestlemania 2000 (16) - 2000 DUH
- WWE Title - (c) Triple H vs. The Rock
One of the biggest gripes of the modern wrestling fan was all the McMahon-Mania that surrounded the main event of WM 2000. Each McMahon had a representative in the first ever Fatal 4-way and it ended with Vince turning on Rock to give the heel Triple H the huge Mania win. The Backlash main event complete with crazy overbooking should have main evented this event. Rock/Triple H was THE feud of 99 - 00 and needed to main event.
Wrestlemania X-8 - 2002
- Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hollywood Hogan
Another one I discussed in a previous column, this could have been everything the classic that Rock/Hogan was and more given the personal history between Hogan and Austin. They could have played the Steve-a-mania clips from ECW all day long...OR
- NWO vs. Stone Cold and The Rock
They gave that main event away on Free TV...FREE TV!!! They could've ran a reverse Bash at the Beach 96 angle, where Rock and Austin, the two biggest stars in the company teased a 3rd man and they could've brought back Shawn or Foley as an uber-surprise guest.
Wrestlemania XXIV - 2008
- World Title: Fatal 4-way - (c) Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. Batista vs. Ric Flair
This was my original idea before Cena made his shocking return at the Rumble. Orton would've been challenged by former Evolution teammates, Batista and Triple H and Flair getting added to complete the Evolution reunion. Flair would have beaten Orton in a non-title "career" match to get added. This would work out to where Orton retired Flair rather than Shawn, to further add to his legend killer Age of Orton moniker.
Those are my Wrestlemania redo's. A brief note on Raw, Orton = Awesome. That was a totally killer promo from Orton, making a surprise return. Yes he ran down all the champs but c'mon lets look at this: CM Punk has lost several clean matches on Raw and is totally being made to be a "fluke" champion. Santino has 0 credibility and is booked as a total goof. The Tag Champs just got squashed in a handicap match by Cena and got the belts taken by Cryme Tyme, and Beth went from vicious champ to pussycat love bunny. So he was dead on balls accurate. That being said, The HONKA-METER may be the single greatest thing on Raw in a long time. If Santino makes it for 62 weeks, it will suck, but my god that is hilarious.
My quick Unforgiven picks: All Champs retain, Jericho and Simply Priceless so far. Stay tuned to the Roundtable picks coming later this week.
I actually thought the exact same match for the last one. It would have been a historic way to end Flairs career. But at the same time Orton really doesn't deserve to end Flair's career.
Posted By: Guest#6839 (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 03:46 PM
Hogan Flair at WM. When I think about it now I think "Why didnt they?". But looking back to when I was a kid watching WWF, Ric Flair wasnt a big deal in the WWF. Sure, Hogan coming back to win the belt from him would have been good, but WWF fans at the time would rather Sid and Hogan. I dont care if you love Flair or not, he just really didnt do much for most WWF fans and I doubt it would have drawn much more then what we got.
The opposite is true with Austin and Hogan. At the time thats what I wanted to see. But when I look back now Rock and Hogan match up too perfectly. Hollywood vs Hollywood, both the same size about and not the best in the ring. They built the feud ass backwards but still that match was the right choice.
Posted By: Champ (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 03:47 PM
"CM Punk has lost several clean matches"
Jericho, a fluke pin by JBL in a triple threat, and.....?
Posted By: Guest#2390 (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 03:51 PM
Whoa! Wrestlemania is not the "grandaddy of them all", that distincion belongs to Starrcade.
Posted By: JeremyL (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 04:02 PM
I agree with some of these, but I've got to disagree on some points as well. As far as I'm concerned, if they were going to do a Four Way in 2000, then the McMahons MAKE that angle, otherwise it's just a lame Backlash match at WrestleMania. I agree whole heartedly that it should have been Trips-Rock one on one though.
As for X8, I would have kept Rock-Hogan and done Triple H-Austin instead of Triple H-Jericho. It would have been so much bigger, and it was the match they had been building towards since the Two Man Power Trip. Just watch the 2002 Royal Rumble and tell me that that shouldn't have been the main event.
Also, WrestleMania 23. While I we certainly didn't lose out with Cena-Michaels, I think the Fatal Four-Way they had with Orton and Edge at Backlash might have been the better overall match. Here you had a four way feud that actually felt like it belonged at Mania, they might have capitalized on that and just switched when they did Cena-Michaels.
Posted By: Andy Clark (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 04:04 PM
Hogan/Andre at IV... DID happen, just in a crappy way. It was time to elevate Savage and have TWO megastars, pun not intended, though I do agree that Hogan/DiBiase never got a solid one-on-one at a big show.
Saying Bret/Owen was 1-1 is only if you count X and SummerSlam, as they had more matches on free TV as well, including the final match at the debut Action Zone, as seen on Bret's DVD.
I totally agree with Flair/Hogan and Savage/Roberts though for VIII, as well as Austin/Hogan for X8 as the biggest "almost happened" ones.
Posted By: CyclopsScott (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 04:12 PM
Dan, I want to see Santino make it to 61 weeks and just when he's about to secure 62 weeks, the Honky Tonk Man comes out and blasts him over the head with his guitar. Perfect ending.
Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 04:17 PM
The Hogan/Flair WM8 match was actually booked and even advertised on Superstars briefly. I'm guessing Hogan's decision to leave and standard refusal to job led to the change of plans. And after Flair's Royal Rumble performance months earlier, I know I was excited for it.
As for WM4, I take it you weren't a Savage fan or are among those who hated the tournament. I loved it. It was different and fun, and once Hogan was out the excitement was huge. Besides, technically we DID get the Hogan/Andre rematch. It was Steamboat/Savage 2 we were denied.
I'm shocked you left out HBK/Bret at WM13. That was a case of fate intervening, but still a huge missed chance.
Orton running down champs is just one more way of the writers saying "we know we're doing a terrible job, but have no intention of improving so deal with it". No wonder Vince was irate.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 04:47 PM
I don't know about Hogan/Dibiase, but it's a crime that Savage/Steamboat II didn't happen in the 2nd Round of the WM IV tourney. If it did, and they went 10-15 minutes (I forget what the time limit was), most everyone would look at the event and Savage's title run more fondly I think. Stupid 80's bad guys vs. good guys rule...
Posted By: Greg (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 04:55 PM
I would almost put Lesner v. Goldberg on here. Yes, it was at WMXX, but these two were on their way out, and they didn't give a shit about putting on a good show. Instead, it wound up being infamous for all of the wrong reasons.
HBK v. Hart at WM13 was another almost-was. However, HBK "lost his smile" and they rebooked to give the title match to Sid & UT (who stunk up the place) and had Hart face Austin in an iconic match.
Hogan/Warrior II at WM7 was another lost opportunity--maybe. The first match was about as good as those two could have done, so I wonder if the rematch might have tainted our memories of the first one (much like the rematch when it finally happened). Instead, we got Hogan/Slaughter in a better-than-expected main which forced the show to move to a smaller venue.
I agree with most of the matches, with Flair/Hogan being the most baffling, although understandable given the backstage politics (Hogan wanted to take time off, and McMahon was not going to put the title on him).
Bret v. Owen was another lost opportunity, especially because the Hart/Backlund match was so disappointing. In fact, I believe the entire WM11 I Quit match was shorter than the amount of time Bret was in the crossface chicken-win in their Survivor Series encounter.
Posted By: Michael L (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 05:02 PM
How do you leave off Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels for Wrestlemania 13. I know we got the classic Hart/Austin submission match, but I don't think there was ever a more anticipated rematch
Posted By: jeff (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 05:30 PM
i dont remember cm punk loosing several times maybe twice if that and please stop comparing his title run to reys atleast he looks strong in the ring when he wins or loses
Posted By: Guest#2129 (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 05:41 PM
My opinion:
Wrestlemania III : WWF Title Hulk Hogan(c) Vs Andre the Giant. Winner: Andre the Giant.
Wrestlemania IV : WWF Title Andre the Giant(c) Vs Hulk Hogan. Winner: Hulk Hogan
Posted By: rock.malboro (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 05:45 PM
"NWO vs. Stone Cold and The Rock
They gave that main event away on Free TV...FREE TV!!!"
Nobody gave a shit about Hall or Nash by then...not even Hall or Nash.
Posted By: Stanley (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 06:52 PM
Just a few more I thought of -
Wrestlemania 21 - If Orton hadn't turned face so quickly in 2004, he would have main-evented against HHH instead of Batista.
Wrestlemania 22 - They should have kept Cena and Edge away from each other after Edge cashed in MiTB (with Cena losing his title shot) and having them fight at Wrestlemania.
Wrestlemania 24 - Should have Cena vs Orton - 1-on-1, Cena getting revenge on Orton.
Oh and I kinda hoped that they would have ended the Hardy-Edge feud at WM22 too.
Posted By: AH (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 07:26 PM
You would have killed Hulk Hogan (and probably the WWF's) momentum cold if you had Andre beat Hogan. Especially if you waited a year for Hogan to get the title back. WrestleMania is remembered so fondly, and is probably the greatest WM ever, because Hogan defied all odds and beat Andre the Giant.
Posted By: The Man (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 07:35 PM
How about:
WM III: Andre wins by Countout or DQ, Hogan cleans house afterwards and stands tall.
They feud through the summer, Hogan never winning and Andre finally winning the belt via Heenan family shenanigans on a hugely hyped SNME late summer/early fall.
They build towards WM IV, with doubts about Hogan, who has never beaten or slammed Andre...but does and wins the strap at WM IV.
Afterwards, they could do a program with Dibiase, and eventually Savage, perhaps at WM V.
Posted By: ZZZ (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 07:38 PM
After WM 4 Hogan had to go and make the movie masterpiece No Holds Barred, so he couldn't have main evented the show. Vince wouldn't put over a man who's leaving for 4 months and Hogan wouldn't have jobbed to ANYONE, especially DiBiase, especially at WM.
Also, Bret had to job to Backlund at Survivor Series 94. Like Hogan, he was off to Hollywood, in Brets case he was starring in Lonsome Dove the TV series.
As for an Evolution, who cares. All four of them suck.
Posted By: Lenny Lane (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 07:53 PM
HBK vs The Undertaker.
I have been seriously looking forward to a WM blow-off match since they match up in the RR a few years ago.
Posted By: Guest#7003 (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 07:54 PM
Wrestlemania 14 - Bret vs. Austin
Had Bret not left in 1997 he could have held the title until Wrestlemania and been the guy Austin beat for his first title. There was never really an end to the Bret/Austin feud and Austin actually never got a clear cut win over Bret in any of their matches in 1997.
Posted By: Mark K. Faybin (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 07:58 PM
god I hope Santino does not hold the IC title for 62 weeks, it's pure torture watching him wrestle. That will be the death of the belt.
Posted By: Marty (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 08:01 PM
I LOVE the WM 8 suggestions. While Savage/Flair was a classic championship match EVERYONE wanted Hogan/Flair and a big PPV Blow-off to Jake the Snake/Savage would have made sense on the undercard. Of course, Hogan just HAD to refuse to do the J-O-B and screw up everything.
As for Hogan/Austin, instead of taking away the Rock/Hogan classic from WM 18 why not DO IT AT WM 19? Austin was still with the WWE when WM 19 rolled around, and so was Hogan. Of course, in VERY SHORTSIGHTED BOOKING McMahonagement decided to waste Hogan in a very forgettable feud with Vince himself (that almost NO ONE cared about) while Austin had a 3rd rematch with a newly turned Heel Rock. Had they done a Hogan/Austin face VS face feud at WM 19 it COULD have gone down as one of the most memorable in history, especially since Austin is probably the ONLY Superstar who could cheap shot/"Kick wham Stunner" Face Hogan and STILL get cheered for it. Better yet, they could have also done Rock/Goldberg at WM 19 (as originally planned) if they had only managed to ink the deal a month or so earler. But instead, McMahonagement got VERY lazy and shortsighted (as it was for most of 2003), costing everyone the Austin/Hogan Epic Classic That Never Was and bumping Rock/Goldberg (as BRUTAL as that turned out to be) to a secondary PPV that NO ONE cared about.
Posted By: Guest#6215 (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 08:43 PM
Wrestlemania X: Lex vs Bret, the 2 top faces in the company, for the WWE title. Lex could have beaten Yoko, then lose to Bret. Bret could even pull a very good match out of Lex at that point as well, and the crowd would have been hot for that match.
Posted By: brsams (Guest) on September 03, 2008 at 09:17 PM
Wrestlemania 4: Hulk v Dibiase (winner: Dibiase)
then summerslam Dibiase v Macho (winner Macho) to then build WM5's Hogan v Savage. Dibiase should have at least had the transitional championship reign that Iron Sheik had
Posted By: Dan (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 08:01 AM
Someone here mentioned Cena/Edge, that definitely should have been the main event. I don't agree about IV & VIII though-- you're taking BOTH of Savages title reigns away from him?! The guy completely earned his title run, and did a LOT better job than Warrior of carrying the ball after Hogan dropped the belt. I remember thinking the Savage/Dibiase feud was actually FUN, unlike Hogan... god I still hate him LOL
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 08:03 AM
You're talking about changing months of storylines for one match. i agree on some, but not WM IV. I'm not sure if you are old enough to remember the tournament, but while it may not hold up all that well, at the time, it was so dramatic. Besides, I heard it was to placate Davage, who threatened to shoot on Honky-Tonk if he didn't get to win the IC title. So you never know why these matches didn't happen, but usually it's something like that.
Posted By: Crow (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 10:37 AM
I would've preferred to see Austin-Angle at WM X8 than Austin/Hall and Angle/Kane
And HHH/HBK HAS to happen someday, in my opinion anyway
Posted By: Anon (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Wrestlemania II - Nikita Koloff vs. Hulk Hogan
It was supposed to happen, they were in negotiations, but Nikita wisely got cold feet at the prospect of being turned into a joke. Too bad because given that we were at the peak of Reaganomics and Hulkamania, having a virtuous American hero taking on an evil Russian monster would've been huge. And probably better than the Bundy/Hogan alternative that we did end up with.
Posted By: Rob S. (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 12:51 PM
"How about:
WM III: Andre wins by Countout or DQ, Hogan cleans house afterwards and stands tall."
There's no way you could finish a show of that magnitude with a countout or a DQ. There's just no way.
Posted By: Kid Cairo (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 01:17 PM
Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff inside a STEEL CAGE @ WrestleMania 2 instead of King Kong Bundy. I would have used the NBC Saturday Night's MAIN EVENT finish that Hogan & Orndorff were involved in then continued the feud with the blow off @ The BIG EVENT in toronto with 70,000+. The Hogan/Orndorff rivalry was better than Hogan/Bundy anyway & would have served the WrestleMania franchise better in the long run. They could have fed of their WrestleMania 1 rivalry & the partnership/betrayal that developed afterwards. Classic feud that should have been timed better. Just my opinion.
Posted By: " Mr. # 1 derfull " (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 01:34 PM
I'm not quite old enough, but just from watching WM III and some of the events that led up to it (such as Andre I believe elminating Hogan in a Battle Royal on SNME) that there was quite a bit of doubt that Hogan could beat Andre. Not in the same sense, but I guess kind of like Rock/Austin in WM 17 when you really weren't sure which way it would end up. The whole feud Hulk/Andre itself didn't even start til late 86/early 87. It's definitely hard to see, but if they had Andre win and Hogan keep the belt, then drop it and chase all the way to WM IV it would have been something.
Posted By: ZZZ (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 03:38 PM
Wrestlemania X: Lex vs Bret, the 2 top faces in the company, for the WWE title. Lex could have beaten Yoko, then lose to Bret. Bret could even pull a very good match out of Lex at that point as well, and the crowd would have been hot for that match.
Fail for giving Lex Luger a World Title win at WM of all places. Luger/Bret would be probably Lugers best match ever, but you honestly want him claiming to be a WWF Champion for, oh, 1.5 hours??
Posted By: Guest#7373 (Guest) on September 04, 2008 at 10:46 PM
On WrestleMania 2000:
It all came down to money basically, and it was a smart move to have it happen the way it happened. Everyone and their dog was watching wrestling at the time, and WWE already knew that everyone was going to get WrestleMania and it would pop a huge buy rate.
So why not save the Rock/HHH blowoff until Backlash? That way instead of everyone ordering WrestleMania and then half that number ordering the B-show next month, everyone ordered WrestleMania and Backlash got a much bigger buyrate than usual.
Posted By: Guest#4424 (Guest) on September 05, 2008 at 08:08 AM
Great stuff here. I think I agree with every one but the Bret-Owen WM IX one. I'm a mark for tournaments and so I loved WM IV, I see where you were going with what you said.
Posted By: Mark (Guest) on September 05, 2008 at 02:29 PM
