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 411mania » Wrestling » Columns
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Wacky Wrestling Theory 09.04.08: Full Penetration Sex
Posted by Jake Chambers on 09.04.2008



If we look to the future, we have to assume that what we consider ‘pornographic' sex today will start to assimilate into mainstream popular culture. The movie Shortbus and the television show Tell Me You Love Me are two examples that have already started to nudge that boundary in the serious drama category. The problem is that word ‘serious.' The core audience for pornography does not want to take a serious, intellectual look at sex, they just want to see girls getting fucked in as many wacky and dangerous ways as possible. The pornography that people buy is filled with abusive and humiliating treatment of women at the hands of tough and cocky muscular men. Sound familiar? You may see where I'm going with this, since this is a wacky wrestling theory, and the comparison has been commonly made before, professional wrestling and pornographic film share the same imagery, exaggerated style and visual symbols. Therefore, I believe that pro-wrestling will be the perfect place for pornographic sex to eventually penetrate into the mainstream.

Romance (or at least romantic overtones) often has a place in pro-wrestling mythology. Everyone remembers the touching reunion of Macho Man and Elizabeth at Wrestlemania VII, but of course this followed years of verbal and physical on-screen abuse by the Macho Man character. So truly, as much as the romantic pay-off may exist in pro-wrestling, it is the humiliation and degradation of women that actually connects with the audience.



Violence against women is common in professional wrestling. Whether it is the lust shown by the Dudley Boyz for putting women through tables, the aggressive Trish and Lita verbal feud, or Randy Orton RKO-ing his girlfriend Stacy Keilber to send a message that he will do anything to win; in most cases the lowest place a wrestler can go in order to ‘heel'-icize themselves is to attack women… or is it? The respect some segments of pro-wrestling fandom has for ‘artistic' heel performances are no different than the way the audience admires Al Pacino in Scarface or Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight. Therefore, if the heels were able to use another, common cultural method for symbolically ‘attacking' women, then what is to stop them from using full penetration sex in the ring similar to way it is used in pornography.

I don't know if you've seen any porn recently but certainly a majority of the content is incredibly brutal. Regardless of any feminist arguments that could have been made for pornography during its inception decades ago, these days there is little social redemption in the degrading and borderline criminal way women are abused by groups of men in some modern porn. Yet, the gag reflex continues to decrease in the throats of young women worldwide while the influence and market penetration of pornography increases. As was brilliantly dramatized in the recent HBO drama mini-series Generation Kill,the young people that are growing up saturated with violent imagery who do not feel any repulsion or disgust for these acts will simply accept them as normal, and corruption at the highest levels or society can encourage this kind of naive youth over those educated or moralistic. With the saturation of pornography in the Western world, we can assume that this means the youth of today will be as desensitized to seeing extreme penetration sex as I was to seeing hip gyrations of Elvis Presley. As these young people grow to take control of society in the future, the images that are required to shock them will need to be more extreme.

While this year we watched Chris Jericho unapologetically punch Shawn Michaels' wife in the face and were ‘moved' by the resultant swollen lip, could we not imagine that in a few decades we might see a similar scenario, only with the wife being sexually molested, fully penetrated and left in a cum-covered pile in the ring as a means to amp up the violence against a women that is so required to pull an emotional response from wrestling fans? Sound shocking? That's the point. Besides, it's not ‘real,' right? Although it may look and feel real, Jericho didn't really intentionally punch or hurt HBK's wife, so from an artistic standpoint, how would collaborative penetration sex be any more real?


Too far?

What would penetration sex add to the show that simply simulated sex could not provide? That's a good question, since we all realize that wrestling is not a real fight, why would they need to show real sex? The question then is: how real is pornographic sex? As I have discussed before, the sex in porno looks very different from the sex people most likely are participating in on a regular basis. Pornography shows ultra-exaggerated, hyper-real acts of near athletic proportion, much like the moves in pro-wrestling. Really punching a person in the face hard may be quick, sloppy and awkward looking, yet practicing and perfecting the ‘wrestling' punch is a main component in any wrestler's arsenal. Visual scenes of vaginal penetration, and the accompaniment of ejaculation, female ‘squirting', along with choking, slapping and spitting are all appealing, unrealistic visuals that are comparable to the chest chops, piledrivers, powerbombs, and submission holds that we see in wrestling. A pornographic sex scene, particularly where the men are larger than the women and able to maneuver and position them in extreme ways, as well as the force at which they are able to thrust and the effect that can have on the female body, can be a fascinating physical feat to watch. This fascination can be titillation on some levels but it does not have to be. Wrestling uses violent imagery with highly sexualized women, but I don't think that there are many people with their pants down in front of their TV, jerking off to the WWE or TNA Knockout division. The visual stimulation of seeing women's bodies and genitalia in exaggerated photorealistic scenarios can be one way for 'trash' or low culture to politically get a reaction from their audience.

I think that in search of the next level of extreme physical, visual stimulus, the marriage of pro-wrestling and pornography is an obvious one. As wrestlers look to push the envelope, the penetration of the erect penis into the vagina and the subsequent pumping holds a certain violent cache that must be appealing to wrestling producers. Unlike a simulated dry-hump, the visual of full penetration is what draws people to porn because it is the ultimate demonstration of man's power over women. If this can be shown with force and violence, then the act becomes ever that much more dominant, shocking, and attractive to a carnal, male audience.

Just how soon can we start to expect to see this kind of imagery in pro-wrestling? I would have to say decades, at least, but some signs point to an even sooner possibility. First of all, there is the inception of an independent wrestling promotion Not Rated Pro-Wrestling (as was once evaluated here) starring and funded by porn stars. These men see the degradation of women as a daily, economic necessity, and how long will it take before they begin to book matches that involve winning a woman and having sex with her in the middle of the ring, rather than just splicing sex scenes in between the matches on DVD? The rich man's Evan Stone, Triple H, has not been one to often adhere to the current kid friendly image the WWE wants to pretend to project. Triple H, the character, mocked Vince McMahon for loving ‘cock,' stood beside Candice Michelle as both were apparently on the receiving end of oral sex until completion, and he literally ‘fucked' the brains out of the corpse of Katie Vick on live TV. Triple H, you have to assume, is a guy who may finds these sexual themes fun or funny, and thus with his position as a possible leader of the direction of the WWE in the long-term future, there is a good chance that we would be in favor of experimenting with pornographic images on WWE shows.

Although censors may have come down on WWE in the past for characters like Mohammed Hassan and Goldust, as the WWE increasingly becomes it's own distribution channel (we can assume that shows like RAW and Smackdown will eventually be exclusively available on WWE 24/7 in the future) control over content will no longer be regulated by outside bodies. As the WWE becomes able to script shows that are without boundary, like satellite radio, then I would imagine a switch away from the current (and horribly forced) ‘kid friendly' programming will move toward the equally as lucrative and more appropriate, ‘adult' dollars.

The visual imagery of penetration sex plays perfectly into the culture of WWE wrestling that likes to exaggerate physical pain and activity as well as use the humiliation of women at questionable levels of acceptability. Therefore, I would not be surprised, that in the lifetime of Vince McMahon, we will see full penetration sex in WWE rings or programming.



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Comments (87)

 
You're a smart guy, but please, change columns. Please.

Posted By: Matt Eli (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:34 AM

 
 
Please Mr Chambers, for the sake of those who visit 411 with the intention of being informed and entertained, go away.

You seem to gather further courage to write puerile crap with every comment justifiably aimed at your ignorance towards wrestling and the English language.

I can understand that most of the comments on this website are unfairly negative and stuck forever in a uroboric web of self-contradictory cynicism. But when readers urge you to quite writing for 411 and go back to playing SVR 2008 in your basement or perhaps tending to your pimples, I am sure that they mean well.

Perhaps the basement and pimples reference were too harsh. But seriously Jake, your articles are on the verge of being unreadable. And yes people might say, "hey moron, but you read it anyway" Well I do, hoping for some sort of improvement. But I haven't even seen the slightest bit of it.

For the sake of 411, IWC and wrestling, bid us farewell...please


Posted By: christy (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:42 AM

 
 
I really enjoy your column...and you did a very good job trying to make the connection. That said, the idea that there would be "in the lifetime of Vince McMahon, we will see full penetration sex in WWE rings or programming" is a little crazy. That's assuming he's alive (at most) 30 more years. Maybe 200 years, but no way 30.

Posted By: Guest#8833 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:42 AM

 
 
If the comment was too harsh, fine...dont publish it... but I do implore thee 411 editor not to take lightly this criticism of Chambers.

Give a day and you'll know that I am not the only one.


Posted By: christy (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 03:02 AM

 
 
Jake Chambers - Shutting the IWC up one column at a time

Well done sir


Posted By: I dont know what to say (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 03:38 AM

 
 
ummm.....wow,just...wow

Posted By: casual_monday_mayhem (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 05:01 AM

 
 
Given that the over the top nature of the Attitude era, in the long run, killed the business, as well as the fact that the WWE have started to market towards kids, then I highly doubt it.

Posted By: Jase (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 06:42 AM

 
 
Its wacky alright. Interesting read but to me there is no way we are ever going to see actual sex in wrestling. People seem to tolerate violence but when it comes to sex people get up in arms.

Posted By: Darcy (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 06:45 AM

 
 
Interesting column. Whilst I agree with the similarities between the current violent trends in porn and how pro wrestling is portrayed, I think the integration of 'forced' sex or scenes of sexual assault would probably be a step too far for the majority of fans to take and accept. An example of this is the recent controversy in ROH with Bobby Dempsey and Allison Danger - the angle was not received favourably and was rightly dropped.

As a fan who has watched pro wrestling for the last 30 years, my own personal preference would be for a move away from the gratuitously shocking angles, involving whatever taboo Vince and co are intent on shoving down our throats (pun most definitely intended), and a concentration on building feuds in a more traditional manner.

Lets be honest - what would you rather watch - the current build between guys like Jericho and Michaels and the initial feud between Joe and Angle; or the incest angle that Vince is no doubt eventially going to finally manage to foist on us all?


Posted By: blacklodge (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 07:55 AM

 
 
So, your need to express your opinion that wrestling desires to include explicit pornography was catalysed by Shawn Michaels' wife taking a punch to the face?

Point One: there is no direct (or indirect) connotation between the two events to see. People who have WATCHED the event in question would know the context, involving a feud between two *MALE* protagonists. The female was an additional minor part to the charade, and the violence that you use as part of your argument was never directly targeted against her.

Point Two: the WWE certainly isn't heading in that direction while Vince McMahon is still alive- family markets are where the MONEY is at the most, especially in the increasingly pro-fundamentalist republic that is the US right now; the promotion of adult entertainment is certainly *not* on the agenda.

Point Three: the other instances you speak of occured under at least two different iterations of the WWE's "attitude" era, that the WWE's booking policy makes clear to be ancient history. Most WWE / wrestling fans in general could remember a large amount of the scene from 1987-2001, but not too much after that. It's often a struggle for the company to keep track of what happened the previous *month*, so if you're looking for a long-term sinister agenda... news for ya- it doesn't exist. They're not good at planning that far ahead.

Point Four - Wrestling pornography already exists, and is largely seen as the sh*ts-n'-giggles experience that mainstream porn is. Only much more amateurish.

Point Five - Whatever wrestling promoters can think of, Japan's probably done it already.


Posted By: Seph (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 08:14 AM

 
 
This has got to be one of the most retarded things I've ever read.

Posted By: wtf (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 08:18 AM

 
 
This column may just be the most absolutely disgusting thing I have ever read in my 7 years of reading 411 columns.

It will never EVER be acceptable for this kind of behavior to be displayed on Basic Cable TV... Shows like "Tell Me..." are on PREMIUM Channels that you need to pay EXTRA for.

And if you need further proof, One word for you:
"Nipplegate"

5 Years after the "Wardrobe Malfunction" seen around the world, and Broadcast TV has not been the same since.

No more Wacky Wrestling Theory for me.


Posted By: Guest#8606 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 08:43 AM

 
 
Uh...what?

Posted By: BDL (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 08:59 AM

 
 
What are you smoking and where can I get some of that?

Posted By: The Rev (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:00 AM

 
 
D:

Posted By: Jamal (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:04 AM

 
 
Seriously! This is the biggest piece of crap I've read on 411mania.com. You've got to be kidding! I'm pretty liberal in terms of TV, movies, etc. But porn & wrestling merging together!?! Didn't XPW try this a few years ago? And it was a disaster! Jake, you're off your rocker on this one!

Posted By: jcgextreme (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:06 AM

 
 
Your an idiot

Posted By: SYC (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:31 AM

 
 
There's a difference between pushing the envelope and going too far. What would Vince have to gain from this? It's not like it could be shown on television, and the backlash that it would gain if it was shown on PPV or anything like that would neglect any attention that it would get from the media. This is just a stupid concept, all-around. They don't even show graphic sex like this in R-Rated films, and you think that there's potential for it to exist in professional wrestling?

Posted By: Guest017 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:41 AM

 
 
Dude, you are crazy and the only reason I don't think your stupid is because you know how to type.

Posted By: Davis (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:46 AM

 
 
You wrote this dribble just so you could have another excuse to wack off to "gag reflex" porn. Besides the fact that you should be fired from this job for a poorly written article, now everybody knows your fascination with gross porn. Please, next time let 411 give you a topic instead of coming up with your own.

Posted By: guest (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 09:46 AM

 
 
The closest we got I think was Lita & Edge 'celebrating' winning the title on Raw. And frankly, I think that is the closest we will get. Is your theory possible? Of course. Though I find it highly unlikely. There is a tendency to push the envelope...and then have enormous backlash for it. Janet Jackson - Superbowl. 'nuff said. Once the backlash occurs, the envelope pushers tend to back down. As is the case with WWE. They took it as far as they could go....and are now backing away from that. They are going to more 'family friendly' shows. True, that may change eventually. I mean the NWA, WCCW, & WWF I used to watch with my grandparents when I was a kid back in the mid 80's was a completely different beast than the late 90's Attitude era WWE & WCW I used to watch with my college friends. I think the WWE is trying to find a happy medium between the two and will stay there as long as they can. They may have to kick it up a notch every so often, but due to inevitable backlash (and what I attribute to marketing strategy) they will pull it back before it gets too far.

Posted By: MydniteSon (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:01 AM

 
 
Newsflash homie: Sex isn't painful for women. In fact they enjoy it.

Posted By: Umm... (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:10 AM

 
 
Interesting theory. But I don't think full penetration will happen inside a WWE wrestling ring. Maybe an indy promotion tries it out sometime but NEVER in WWE. They're a publicly traded company.

Posted By: Guest#0246 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:22 AM

 
 
What a weird-ass article.

Posted By: Tim Haught (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:22 AM

 
 
Wow... Just wow. Where can I get some of wht your smokin?

Posted By: Jeremy (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:53 AM

 
 
Hey look, someone linked to this one on Fark:
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3847835


Posted By: Guest#0677 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:53 AM

 
 
not in front of a live audenience though and wwe would lose merchandise sales

Posted By: Ian (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:57 AM

 
 
How exactly is a person who disagrees with this article able to say anything that won't be met with complete and utter dismissal as being misogynistic?

Not too often does someone put someone else in checkmate before any sort of response.

The fundamental flaw with your argument is that you allow no way to respond without seeming to fall into the " carnal, male audience"

You use shock value terms to make a point that can be explained in a much more refined and dignified way.

So, go on now. Explain how we are going to move from physical contact into full fledged in ring sex. I am quite interested in going down this slippery slope.


Posted By: TMM (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 11:05 AM

 
 
are you on f*ckin crack???? what the hell are you smoking??? you actually think that will happen? you need serious help my friend...

Posted By: NJXWF (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 11:12 AM

 
 
You are so goddamn wrong, it's not even funny.

Posted By: Guest#0703 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 11:16 AM

 
 
Yet another pointless column.

Posted By: DaveJuk (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 11:21 AM

 
 
um dude, it already happened with edge and lita remember?

Posted By: johnny (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:18 PM

 
 
Given the recent move to make all five hours of their first run weekly television PG, and business being very strong world wide I'm afraid your theory is based in fantasy (no pun intended). Also pointing to characters like the Dudley Boyz, and Lita who are characters from the WWE's last boom period which was based much more in adult theme's makes it look like you haven't done your research. That was almost ten years ago. Oh, and it's a publicly traded company! Jericho missing his Shawn Michaels and hitting his wife in a storyline meaning they're headed toward full penetration is a pretty big leap.

Posted By: Vince Averill (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:28 PM

 
 
In the context you mentioned, it would be graphic depcitions of simulated rape. Don't give the E any ideas, nor certain viewers any hopes.

Hypothetically, I see where you are coming from; twenty years from now, XXX action may be mainstream. Seriously, though, there is something very wrong about any of these notions. I read every word of the article and I wonder if it was just a hypothesis; is there a place somewhere inside that you want to see this take place on TV? Just to see some Diva poon?


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:37 PM

 
 
And hey, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here. It's something I've wondered before, because we know the WWE is willing to welcome bad taste and lowbrow drama. Because of that, and because of where our cultures are going, I got a very sick feeling from reading this becuase I can actually see this happening twenty-thirty years from now.

Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:40 PM

 
 
wow
this is one of the god damn dumbest things i've ever read


Posted By: steiner (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:40 PM

 
 
You sir are a JACKASS! Did you read any comments last week? I was hoping you let someone put you in the figure four and they broke your leg.

This "writer" SUCKS!


Posted By: tim (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:46 PM

 
 
No offense buddy. But what the hell did I just read?

Posted By: kjr1984 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:51 PM

 
 
You are a sick sick man commit yourself now before you can do any more damage to society.

That and this column has disrespected the art of pro wrestling.


Posted By: The Rev (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 12:59 PM

 
 
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Posted By: Matt McCarthy (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:04 PM

 
 
The favorite thing about Jake Chambers is not even the asinine columns he puts out on a weekly basis, but how he comments on his own column with fake aliases. Wait and see. The initial reaction to his weekly assaults on common sense and the English language is always harsh and negative, as we are seeing here, and then toward the bottom of the comments, there will be one or two short comments about how insightful his thoughts are and how great of a writer he is. Give it up Jake. We know you are complimenting yourself in a pathetic attempt to justify keeping your writing gig. Let me guess next week's topic, the next logical progression for the wrestling industry is to have one wrestler actually murder another as part of an angle. That sounds like something you'd write.

Posted By: Rob (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:20 PM

 
 
This column reminds me of a forum post I read on another forum where this teenager admitted to sniffing his sister's panties just to 'see what it was like'. He wondered if there was anything wrong with it. He rightfully got admitted by his family (after they heard about his post) to see a therapist.

Seriously, I've been thinking about this article all day. Jake Chambers, dude, this article was almost like reading a defense for humanizing rape porn. Seriously, I got sick reading it becuase how the hell anyone, even McMahon, would show this on live TV (just so, let's say, Jericho could insult Michaels) is insane. Not in that funny Joker way; in that 'ehhh, want some dirty peektures?' child molester way. All in the name of hypothesis.

We are smarter than the lowbrow crap we watch every Monday night; we know when someone is writing from experience. Read between the lines of this article.

And no, I wasn't joking about seeing this stuff on mainstream cable in the future. Thirty years? Too soon. fifty. Maybe. We'll see. The reason I think it could happen, though? Because of minds behind articles like this.


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:35 PM

 
 
Rob:

Dear God, you may be right! Watch and behold, as next week we shall see, on a June 2107 episode of Raw, a century-in-the-making look back as a wrestler, greatly revered, murders a cruiserweight and diva in the middle of the ring. You know, as a show.


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:39 PM

 
 
We already had sex in wrestling. It was called XPW and it failed miserably.

Posted By: Harry (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:55 PM

 
 
Vince would love to be able to have hardcore sex on his shows, but those darn censors won't allow it :P

Posted By: CK2005 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 01:57 PM

 
 
I still don't see how people make the connection between wrestling and sex. The last thing on my mind when watching Edge vs. Undertaker or what have you is the urge to bang my girlfriend.

Posted By: His Bubbliness (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:04 PM

 
 
F*UCK the haters. They are all just jealous because they cant write for 411mania. Well done Jake

Posted By: Frank (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:27 PM

 
 
I agree with Chris Warrior. The scary thing is we may see something like this in the future. The problem is that the subculture is slowly going to become the dominant culture.

Not with our generation but those 17 and under who dont know any better.

This is the day and age where oral sex has replaced kissing so dont put it past networks to exploit that.


Posted By: appl_jacks (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:28 PM

 
 
I have a sick mind and I've seen all sorts of filth.....and even I'm offended by this

Posted By: MichiyoYoshiku (Registered)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:29 PM

 
 
I read this column like I read every column on thsi site. I rarely let the topic bother me and I try to have on open mind. But this column is just plain insulting to me as a wreslting fan of over twenty years. It insults me on other levels but especially as a wreslting fan. Despite all the sports entertainment stuff I and most wrestling fans want to see WRESTLING. Maybe that should be your next wacky wrestling theory: A wreslting show with just wreslting.

Posted By: nanoman (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:35 PM

 
 
I fail to see the connection between verbally abusing or accidentally hitting women to what I assume would be rape. Its one thing for Chris Jericho to hit Shawn Michael's wife, but are we to believe that Shawn Michaels or anyone else for that matter would sit around and allow her to be raped. If the sex is consensual then where would it take place in the ring or backstage. IF you think people complain about the wrestling now you have no idea how much that would increase. How many people do you think would attempt to stop a sexual act occurring in the ring?

Wrestlers certainly aren't all conservative, but how many of them would have a problem with sex being performed live backstage or in the ring. Bringing Triple H's propensity for angles that push the envelope doesn't help because these have been some the worst angles, sketches, skits, etc of the last ten years.
The WWE has always pushed the envelope and when pushed they withdraw back.

Despite the more mature nature of television in the last fifteen years this country is still very conservative and it has become increasingly more. I see NO WAY that pornographic content will be allowed on anything but premium channels.

Wrestling fans are already viewed a little funny. How about a column that will actually improve the product and open it to new fans not one that will make wrestling fans pariahs and outcasts to society.


Posted By: nanoman (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:40 PM

 
 
How could the censors, editors, whoever allow this column to be put up on the site. It's just an insult to all wrestling fans.

Posted By: ace*1 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 02:47 PM

 
 
Another good one, Chambers.

Why does everyone get so upset at his columns? They're entitled "Wacky Wrestling Theories" He's not making a sound argument, suggesting anything, or advocating a certain stance. He just comes up with something goofy and writes an article about it to provide this website with something different.

And people really need to stop attacking his writing. He's actually one of the best writers, in terms of structure and pacing, that this site offers. Of course when 80% of complaints can't spell and CONSTANTLY use the word "your" for "you're", what can I expect?


Posted By: Matt_Telthorst (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 03:18 PM

 
 
These columns have to be parodies. there is no way anyone could write pretentious drivel every week that appears only to provoke the auidence.

Posted By: Skintymcedger (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 03:25 PM

 
 
This is just plain stupid and idiotic, Csonka or whoever's in charge of wrestling in 411 fire this moron.

Posted By: Michael (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 03:38 PM

 
 
Not sure how I feel about this article.

Offended? Not really. Confused? Yeah.

Oh well, it gets hits. *shrugs*


Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered)  on September 04, 2008 at 03:43 PM

 
 
Stop with the bold. Please.

Posted By: Tyler (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 04:04 PM

 
 
As a longtime 411 reader, this is the first I felt a column has spit in the face of the wrestling fan.

Sure, shock factor, free speech and all that, but this is wrong.


Posted By: Shane (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 04:13 PM

 
 
I say this cause I don't stay on the boards much and am a huge wrestling fan...but what the hell is the IWC? I know someones gonna say your stupid cause you don't know, but I live a very rich outside life and I am sure alot of people don't know.

Posted By: JamesX (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 04:45 PM

 
 
if vince can make money off of it, he'll try anything

Posted By: josh (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 04:46 PM

 
 
yeah but after they do that whats next rape or worse full penetration gay sex, i mean the next step to Y2J/HBK feud would turn into cade and jericho attacking HBK in the shower American History X style

Posted By: Ramirez (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 04:53 PM

 
 
Two words 'Nine songs'.

The guy who writes this clearly watches too much porn but his column makes sense.

I just hope the Iron Shiek and Pat Patterson don't introduce this new era.


Posted By: Rob~! (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 05:11 PM

 
 
What the f is up with the randomly bolded words? Is that what you beleive passes for style?

Posted By: Grammar Police (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 05:12 PM

 
 
Folks, it's called the WACKY Wrestling THEORY, not the Ernest Wrestling Analysis! Settle down!

Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered)  on September 04, 2008 at 05:12 PM

 
 
You just fucking suck. Pretentious bullshit that can't stand up to any scrutiny. Go write elsewhere... I sure won't be reading anything from you again.

Posted By: Satan (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 05:51 PM

 
 
How would this even work? People can suspend their belief and accept that wrestlers can attack each other without punishment, but it would make absolutely no sense at all to show rape either in a taped angle or especially as part of a live, in-ring performence. People wouldn't stand for it.

Posted By: Guest017 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 06:21 PM

 
 
EPIC F A I L!

Posted By: Kristopher (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 07:48 PM

 
 
Not sure how I feel about this article.

Offended? Not really. Confused? Yeah.

Oh well, it gets hits. *shrugs*

Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered) on September 04, 2008 at 03:43 PM

Of course you wouldn't understand, it dealt with (in a whisper) "SEX". And that doesn't include what you do with Rosey and her 4 finger friends while watching reruns of Faithville.


Posted By: Evolution>Creationism (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 07:51 PM

 
 
Violent crime and Rape has gone done significantly since the rapid availability of porn and violent imagery has increased. They are outlets for our naughtiness. No one degrades porn stars, they choose to degrade themselves for money and even that's subjective. More on topic, I felt really sleazy watching HLA on raw, I tend to think the two (porn wrestling) are best kept separate.

Posted By: Tom (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 08:48 PM

 
 
I'm surprised by the angry reactions here. Sure, the concept of wrestling doing full blown pornography is a little silly (hence the WACKY in the title) but the basic points ring true. Who here can deny that pro wrestling presents an ugly, juvenile, and often hateful view of women and sex? Is the mentality of someone who gets a kick out of seeing a three hundred pound guy powerbomb a scantily clad woman through a table all that different than the mentality of someone who gets off on aggressive hardcore porn?

That's why I'm fine with WWE trying to go TV-PG, and that's why when it comes to porn I stick with the classics.


Posted By: Chopper (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:23 PM

 
 
Seph is correct. It has already happened in Japan. There was a "Loser gets gang-banged" match that was on the'net. Seriously.

Posted By: Guest#8514 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:44 PM

 
 
oh my god...i think...yeah, this column got me aroused

woah


Posted By: Guest#0177 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 10:57 PM

 
 
Matt_Telthorst = Jake Chambers....nice try to justify your own columns

Christopher Warrior = Comments RATINGS...you've hit the nail on Mr Chambers' head

I have watched Ichi The Killer and sat through it, but this column is a different beast altogether.

It's not shocking, just that it's miserably written


Posted By: Guest#4784 (Guest)  on September 04, 2008 at 11:25 PM

 
 
This article is disgusting, though, the fact that he has got over 70+ comments for it is pretty impressive.

It's X-Pac heat, but it's still heat. I haven't seen this many people bitch about a writer since a Fact or Fiction a while ago... with Jake Chambers...


Posted By: Guest (Registered) (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 12:35 AM

 
 
Finally! I thought I was alone! :)

Posted By: Anthony (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 01:20 AM

 
 
Jesus Christ,stop your whining,no one cares.....my view is that if you watch WWE,you have no right to say what's right or wrong,as they have used the most racist,sexist and plain horrible storylines over the years(Katie Vic anyone?).All you people are proving is that you're a bunch of hypocrites.

Posted By: Madmax (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 06:42 AM

 
 
As a serious point, its ridiculous. As a comedic/satirical column, it isn't funny.

For sex there was XPW and there are plenty of other "tasteful" groups catering to that market too (Apartment Championship Wrestling or whatever its called).

For violence you draw from HBK v Jericho and HBK's wife being punched?! Lu Fisto was damn near crippled in a deathmatch where her back was driven down onto two steel chairs... by Necro Butcher, how is a punch worse than that?

There is a line between "wacky" and crap, you just found it.


Posted By: King Nikolai (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 06:51 AM

 
 
As a serious point, its ridiculous. As a comedic/satirical column, it isn't funny.

For sex there was XPW and there are plenty of other "tasteful" groups catering to that market too (Apartment Championship Wrestling or whatever its called).

For violence you draw from HBK v Jericho and HBK's wife being punched?! Lu Fisto was damn near crippled in a deathmatch where her back was driven down onto two steel chairs... by Necro Butcher, how is a punch worse than that?

There is a line between "wacky" and crap, you just found it.


Posted By: King Nikolai (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 06:51 AM

 
 
If you judge by the effect that this column had on the people posting in the comments section, this column would seem like a success.

This is titled "Wacky Wrestling Theory" and the thought of their being authentic "Live Sex Acts" taking place in the ring is not that far-fetched even going back 10-12 years ago.

Chambers is trying to give us something different than top wrestler lists, the same news regurgitations, and boring us with his personal life issues that we get from other columnists. It's something different. Maybe not always good, but different.

For the record, I am not Jake Chambers, and I didn't care for this column. In fact, the only reason I read it today was due to the fact that I'm killing 30 minutes at work and it was either this or the Fink's Payload.


Posted By: Angry Bear (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 10:12 AM

 
 
Madmax, don't be a retard. Watching the Katie Vick crap was bad enough; but to see actual xxx penetration to simulate a rape scene, for the sake of one wrestling insulting another, takes it far beyond.

Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 11:06 AM

 
 
"Unlike a simulated dry-hump, the visual of full penetration is what draws people to porn because it is the ultimate demonstration of man's power over women. If this can be shown with force and violence, then the act becomes ever that much more dominant, shocking, and attractive to a carnal, male audience."

If THIS is all it comes down to, then there are already porn fetishes that cover both MALE and FEMALE forced sex. If you TRULY feel that men watch porn to watch the "domination of penetration" then I HIGHLY suggest that you seek INPATIENT professional help QUICKLY. But PLEASE stop writing. Youre scaring the kids, and not in a GOOD way.


Posted By: CM Wolf (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 11:36 AM

 
 
I think IWC stands for Internet Wrestling Community.

Posted By: not 100% (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 11:55 AM

 
 
At first I thought Chambers was aiming at mere shock value, but then again I realied that we can't put anything past the mind of one Vince McMahon. Remember this is the guy who once made "God" no-show a PPV. He's spoken of incest angles with Stephanie, and has always preferred T&A over actual wrestling. So whos' to say that he wouldn't go that far?

The only question is what wrestler would be willing to do such a thing to get themselves over.


Posted By: Orlando (Guest)  on September 05, 2008 at 02:45 PM

 
 
Heidenreich was already all the way there with Michael Cole.

Posted By: Blahha (Guest)  on September 06, 2008 at 05:49 AM

 
 
Judging by the massive reaction of people in this column responding to it, good or bad, I think Jake's hit on an interesting idea - I mean, if it wasn't something to talk about there wouldn't be over EIGHTY comments about it so far.

As far as seeing pornography actually occuring in the ring once in a while, I also would have to say it'd be at least 30-50 years away from occuring. WWE would require their own channel or a deal with a satellite provider that could grant them exclusive content terrestrial radio and TV cannot show. Also, with most of the girls in wrestling posing nude and several BEING in pornography (Salinas, Candice Michelle, Chastity, etc) of any sort I could actually see at least one or two girls agreeing to it for a big fat bonus. Far as it happening in most of our lifetimes, I don't think so. Unless WWE's next Attitude era is pushed way, way to the brink when the kid advertising fails. And you know it will, 1980's was a one-time-only deal!

Makes you think though, the responses alone indicate at least it'd give a LOT of exposure to the WWE "product" by offering something like this. Besides, all they do is screw the fans anyway, might as well let the fans see actual sex in the ring for a change instead of watching Big Show vs Great Khali part 2.

And btw: They already did have a match in Japan in which a female was forced to participate in a gang-bang (naturally pre-approved) with several males in the ring after the match - the loser, of course, had to do it as a stipulation and it was posted in Newton Gimmicks old column a few years back. So yes, it has already been done in Japan.


Posted By: Black Scorpion (Guest)  on September 07, 2008 at 12:51 AM

 
 
Three things:

1) How long would a transition from 'kid friendly' (and remember, they've only just started the PG programming toallow all ages to watch) to adult take, and more importantly why would the WWE want to make this change when the child market is so lucrative?
2) Is there a danger that, like storylines in today's climate, the pornography would completely over-whelm the wrestling and it would be left to yet another alternative promotion to pick up the pieces for old-school wrestling fans?
3) Would we have to see JBL and Pat Patterson get involved?