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 411mania » Wrestling » Columns
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Tim's Take 09.16.08: TNA's Shoot-Style Blues
Posted by Tim Livingston on 09.16.2008



This whole idea of mixing mixed martial arts and professional wrestling...it's been done before. The mentality of the shoot-style matches have been etched in the mind of pro wrestling fans for a long time overseas in Japan, as Antonio Inoki strove to have matches that introduced basically all different kinds of fighting styles. In New Japan, his style of fighting was seen as a way of mixing the shoot-style that started to become prevalent in Japan and the professional wrestling style that his company employed. He was able to make it work, because he knew what in the shoot style world could work inside a wrestling ring. People like Akira Maeda, Nobuhiko Takada and their counterparts found their shoot-styles welcomed in the ring and used in many different ways to emphasize their strengths to work against pro style workers.

What Frank Trigg and AJ Styles did Sunday night is not even close to the view that people like Inoki, Maeda and Takada had. In essence, it was a way to present MMA on a pro wrestling show, but it wasn't done in pro style. It was done in an actual shoot style. Trigg tried to make a match like it was more MMA than pro style. It was apparent from the fans in attendance that this was not what people wanted. This was not the way to do it.

Back at Lockdown, when Samoa Joe defeated Kurt Angle, it was presented as a match more MMA than pro wrestling. This was lost on the fans. The reason a lot of those matches in Japan worked, when it was a pro style wrestler against a shoot-style wrestler, was that it was a complete contrast in styles. When Joe and Angle locked up, it was supposed to show a mat superiority for Angle, but what ended up happening was that for the most part, they tried to make it look like a shoot fight more than a wrestling match. You can't do that and have it be successful.

There are two matches that spring to mind for me when it comes to a match-up with MMA/shoot influences. The first one occurred the day I turned 2-years-old on June 12, 1986 between Tatsumi Fujinami and Akira Maeda. It was presented as a match between someone trying to use pro wrestling techniques and someone who could overwhelm the other with shoot-style techniques, but there was a balance. Someone like Frank Trigg doesn't understand that it doesn't have to be all MMA when he's in the ring. He needs to realize that it's pro-style, not shoot-style, and that while you can still bring shoot elements to the match, you have to confine it to the pro-wrestling ring. It has to be aesthetically pleasing. People know it's not a shoot, so when you DO start shooting on someone and you give someone an injury (like that mouse under AJ's eye) the thought gets lost on the fans.

With the influx of Trigg and Kurt Angle's increasing tendency to be a part of the MMA world, TNA seems to want to lean more towards the MMA line as a way to get an "upper hand" on their competition. What TNA fails to realize is that while they go in that direction, it seems that their competition has adapted to key losses and are putting their best foot forward, without having to sacrifice the core of what SHOULD make them great. They promote athleticism and a bunch of different styles, but they have to remember that they are a professional wrestling company.

If the "Match" that Frank Trigg and AJ Styles had at No Surrender is a step in the direction that TNA would like to go when it comes to mixing styles, then they are in more trouble than they'd know. It's one thing to have an influence, but it's another thing altogether to try and be something that you can't be in the first place.


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Comments (14)

 
AJ is a spotmonkey and is a putz in a mat based match..

No wonder he's not getting pushed... HAHAHAHAHA You Lose


Bourne > Kofi > Morrison > Kendrick > AJ


Posted By: Juggalo Champion (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 02:51 AM

 
 
Sorry Juggalo, but IMO:
Bourne > AJ = Morrison = Kendrick > Kofi


Posted By: LegendKillerRKO (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

 
 
AJ is a spotmonkey and is a putz in a mat based match..

No wonder he's not getting pushed... HAHAHAHAHA You Lose


Bourne > Kofi > Morrison > Kendrick > AJ

Posted By: Juggalo Champion (Guest) on September 16, 2008 at 02:51 AM

Have you seen his early ROH matches?


Posted By: Jaime (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM

 
 
HOW DARE THEY TRY DIFFERENT THINGS!

Posted By: Evan (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM

 
 
Joe/Angle at Lockdown WAS successful :/

Posted By: El Nahamocola (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 11:09 AM

 
 
I think you're selling the Joe vs. Angle cage match short. It was presented with some shoot elements, but it also had a story behind it and two guys who could make the style look reasonably well. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's like talking night and day when compared with AJ vs. Trigg.

Posted By: Matt Short (Registered)  on September 16, 2008 at 11:24 AM

 
 
"HOW DARE THEY TRY DIFFERENT THINGS"

No, Imma have to agree with this article, actually. I think he hit the nail on the head. It's okay to want to incorporate an MMA style fighter into wrestling. But at the end of the day, the audience paid their money to see wrestling. While you may have your wrestling fans who appreciate MMA, i think we can all agree that wrestling is more pleasing to the eye. In pro wrestling, you have guys leaping over and off the top rope, running around the ring, throwing drop kicks and putting their opponents in intricate and theatrical submission moves. While in MMA its more ground and pound and the only aesthetically pleasing thing about it is the occasional knockout strike. The Trigg/Styles match would've definitely gotten over if they let AJ work his style and get his offense in. Plus, the fans in Canada wanted to see the Phenomenal AJ Styles be phenomenal. They wanted the Pele kicks, the leapfrog>dropdown>dropkick>pose spot, the rope flip, the spiral tap, and everything in between. What they got was a bunch of leg kicks, short jabs that didn't connect, and two guys rolling around on the mat.


Posted By: bighustle (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 02:18 PM

 
 
Conversely, they could have had Frank Trigg incorporate some MMA submissions but with all the theatrics of a pro wrestling match. Frank Trigg could shoot the half, get in a good mid ring leg submission and have AJ flailing desperately trying to reach the ropes. In MMA this would result in either a scramble or a quick tapout. But in wrestling, you have to remember that its all about the performance. AJ could've sold the submission work of Frank Trigg putting him over as a submission specialist and someone who's ground work is damaging to any wrestler that steps in the ring with him.

Posted By: bighustle (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 02:23 PM

 
 
Shoot fighting is lame. Joe/Angle didn't get good until the very end when it became what it should have been in the first place, a pro wrestling match.

When I see people wearing Tapout shirts, I fantasize about putting them in the camel clutch and making them humble.


Posted By: AnonScalia (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 03:35 PM

 
 
Bourne, Kofi, Morrison & Kendrick are not in the same league as AJ Styles, the ridiculous things I read on here. =\

Posted By: Guest#2131 (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 03:36 PM

 
 
Bourne, Kofi, Morrison & Kendrick are not in the same league as AJ Styles, the ridiculous things I read on here. =\

Actually I think Bourne is on the same level, and Kofi and Morrison could still put on a 4 star match with him!


Posted By: Davis (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 08:49 PM

 
 
"HOW DARE THEY TRY DIFFERENT THINGS!"

Booking a staged MMA fight for a wrestling ppv =/= good idea.

Hell, TNA has a hard enough time trying to give the fans a decent wrestling show.


Posted By: Ricky West (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 10:58 PM

 
 
Much like the many "boxing" matches that have taken place in various feds, I'm left wondering exactly who these matches are booked for.

Posted By: Rachet (Guest)  on September 16, 2008 at 11:00 PM

 
 
Having "Juggalo" in your name gives away the fact that your opinion is worthless.

Posted By: King Nikolai (Guest)  on September 17, 2008 at 04:15 AM

 




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