411’s Buy or Sell 9.26.08: Steen and Generico, Low Ki, Jerry Lynn, and More!!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 09.26.2008

This week, the 411 staff looks back at RoH's Glory By Honor Weekend and the happenings of Japan as Ryan Byers battles Michael Bauer!

Welcome everyone to WEEK Seventy Five of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.


Week Seventy Five's Match-Up:

The guy smart enough to stop watching TNA Ryan Byers
vs.
Your host with the most in Buy or Sell Land Michael Bauer!

Ending Takeshi Morishima's GHC Heavyweight Title reign was a sign of over-reaction.

Ryan Byers : SELL. I've heard two rationales for Morishima losing the title. The first is that NOAH was afraid he was going to sign with WWE. The second is that he was not getting over to the extent that he should have been. In either event, I do not think that the promotion overreacted. If you're looking at the WWE rationale, it does seem a little bit bizarre that Morishima still lost the title AFTER news that WWE wasn't too interested came out. However, the fact of the matter is that WWE has often proven fickle in the past, with their opinions on particular wrestlers flashing hot and cold more often than a menopausal woman. Given that, Mori could be snatched up at any point, almost regardless of what McMahon and co.'s first impression of him happened to be. If you're looking at the "Morishima is a cold champion" rationale, you're also not looking at an overreaction. You're looking at the truth. Despite a significant buildup, I don't see how Mori could be seen as anything other than a disappointment both in the ring and as a drawing card since he got the Global Honor Crown. His matches against Sigiura and Rikio were far from spectacular, and so were the crowds that they drew. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Kesuke's reign is going to reignite the stagnant puro world, but he's probably a hotter act than Takeshi at this point and definitely a better worker.

Michael Bauer : BUY. Say whatever you want, but with the WWE pretty much saying Morishima was not going to be signed, you can not use that logic at all. So you have to look at Morishima in Japan and what he has done. And honestly, I'm not sure how much you can hit the panic button when the guy had all of two title defenses in at least six months as champion. Yes, being the man to unseat Misawa puts a lot of high expectations on a person, deserved or not. However, when the only two title defenses were against Sigiura and Rikio, I just can't see how the crowds were supposed to be for those. If Misawa got a rematch, the crowd would be as high as ever. So judging him on those two matches alone, quality not withstanding, just seems to be a little unjust. It's like basing the quality of CM Punk's title reign on everything before his clean win over JBL at Summerslam.

0 for 1.

Bryan Danielson's GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title reign will end on his tour in Japan next month.

Ryan Byers : SELL. I say this mainly because I see nobody else to put the title on. Throwing it back on Kanemura does nothing more than make Danielson's win look like a fluke and/or a political move to maintain the ROH relationship. KENTA and Marufuji could always credibly win the title, but they've both had a taste of the heavyweight division now and almost seem too big for the junior championship. (Figuratively, not literally.) Everybody else seems to be too far down the totem pole. All in all, the division seems painfully stagnant. Almost regardless of who you throw in to the ring for a title bout, the resulting match will be good, but there's no hot contender to get behind in a chase and no compelling stories to tell whatsoever. ROH fanboys will still consider the championship an important one just because it's around the waist of one of their poster children, but the fact of the matter is that the NOAH juniors are dead in the water right now.

Michael Bauer : BUY. Trust me, I would love for American Dragon to keep the belt as long as possible as Byers clearly points out. But the fact remains that the "foreign" wrestlers never get to hold these titles for too long. The Briscoes had the Junior Tag Team Gold, just to drop it in a week. The exception to this rule would be Tomko and Giant Benard, because they don't work the US Independants like Danielson does. Yes, Danielson winning the belt looks like a political move regardless, but I think that he at least has earned a small taste of Japanese Gold. I think to get the most out of your own title, you need to have it on someone who will be in Japan for most of the year and can defend the title on your own turf, NOT a Ring of Honor squared circle.

0 for 2.

Low Ki winning IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title was a bigger surprise than Bryan Danielson's title win.

Ryan Byers : SELL. I say this primarily because Low Ki, unlike Danielson, is currently an American wrestler without a home promotion in the United States. He voluntarily walked out on TNA and appears unlikely to go back. He burned his bridges with ROH for whatever reason. WWE hasn't shown any interest in him in years. Danielson, on the other hand, regularly works for ROH and was recently once again on WWE's radar. As such, Ki is far less likely to bolt in the middle of his title reign and far more likely to make every date he needs to make on a particular tour or tours. Looking from things from an ease of booking perspective such as this one, Ki's win comes as much less of a shock.

Michael Bauer : SELL. I have to agree for everything he stated, however, I think the two are just as equal shocks. Low Ki not being tied to anything over than maybe PWG is a huge benefit for him, as well as not being scouted by any of the Big Two of United States Wrestling. While I was shocked to find out he won a title in Japan, Bryan Danielson definitly has earned a shot with gold, so the shock factor should also not be that great.

1 for 3.

SWITCH~!

Ring of Honor made the right decision by making Jerry Lynn a regular member of the roster.

Michael Bauer : BUY. Clearly, this move made some sense for several reasons. First off, Jerry Lynn gives Ring of Honor a recognizable name that they can market to the newer and smaller auidences. Secondly, Jerry Lynn is a veteran, a guy who can work with the younger rising stars and improve them in the ring as well as with maintaining everything out of it. And lastly, Jerry Lynn adds another body to the roster, period. He allows for better cards just for the simple fact that he is there, able to compete, and is apparently willing to put some of the younger guys over like he did for Chris Hero on the Pay Per View Taping. Jerry Lynn will probably never be a champion in Ring of Honor, but he will be a solid performer who can have a decent feud or two and help push the next stars of wrestling.

Ryan Byers : BUY. I'm buying this, but I'm buying it for completely different reasons than Mike. I like you, Mikey, but you're dead wrong on a lot of your points here. Jerry Lynn will not help in marketing ROH. Jerry Lynn was an ECW upper midcarder TEN YEARS AGO. His name barely meant a thing in terms of drawing when he was at the height of his ECDub run, and, now that people have had ten years to forget about him, he's going to be less of a draw, not more. Also, I've always thought that the "Jerry Lynn will work with younger wrestlers and help them improve" argument that has been around since his days in the X Division is pretty ridiculous. Lynn is good at what he does, don't get me wrong. However, if you think he's any better in 2008 than a Chris Hero or a even a Mark Briscoe is, you need to go back and actually pay attention to some of Lynn's matches. Simply put, he's just as prone to the same obnoxious spot-fu and abandonment of logic in matches as most of today's twenty-something indy wrestlers. He's not going to help them improve when he's still committing one of their biggest sins decades in to his career. However, I still do agree that Lynn should be brought in. Why? Even though I think that he's a bit overrated in terms of his "veteran" status, the guy is still an above average professional wrestler and a hell of an athlete, particularly for his age. ROH can always use another good hand, and this is particularly true given the fact that, when you look on the horizon for up and comers carry the promotion over the next several years, the pickings are slim. Indy wrestlers on the level of Bryan Danielson, Homicide, Low Ki, Samoa Joe, and the others who built ROH on their backs just don't exist anymore, and almost no up and comers seem like the could reach the same level. (With Claudio Castagnoli perhaps being the exception that proves the rule.) As such, using a veteran like Lynn to fill the gap while we wait for that next generation of top level indy guys to show up is not the worst of ideas.

2 for 4.

With The Age of the Fall seemingly done with the Briscoes, the group will be broken up within the next six months.

Michael Bauer : BUY. I am buying this for the simple fact that I do not see what more The Age of the Fall can do as a unit. Tyler Black is already more over than Jimmy Jacobs and has the most potential out of anyone in Ring of Honor. I can see, sooner rather than later, that Tyler and Jacobs will split over them losing focus of their goals because of Austin Aries. Tyler Black goes solo and at 21 or 22, he can go nowhere but up and a amazing feud with Jimmy can not hurt that. Right now, he is just the second fiddle to the puppetter of The Age of the Fall and he is much better than that. Delirious is the wild card now, because as confused as he is, I doubt he would know what to do without the support around him. I'm sure though that he could easily be straightenedout as fast as he went Emo.

Ryan Byers : SELL. I see plenty more that the group can do together. Chief among those things is an actual feud with Kevin Steen and El Generico, to whom they recently dropped the Tag Team Titles. Though the match and the change occurred, there was never a protracted rivalry between the two units, and the title switch could serve as the impetus for just that. Also, if the goal is to take the group out of the tag team division and push Black as a single, the unit does not necessarily have to be dissolved in order for that to happen. You simply make Black in to the "crown jewel" of the team (for lack of a better term), make Delirious in to the guy who does jobs as part of angles that set up Black's matches, and transition Jacobs - who is a better talker than a wrestler anyway - in to a role in which he's 70% mouthpiece and 30% worker. There are plenty of different options for AOTF in the last quarter of 2008 and through 2009, and breaking them up at this point would be lazy booking and a waste of the massive buildup that they came in with last year.

2 for 5.

Kevin Steen and El Generico will still be RoH Tag Team Champions after Final Battle 2008.

Michael Bauer : BUY . These guys better be champs for at least 4 months after chasing the titles for most of a year and a half. Their first defense is against The Briscoes in a match that reminds of me and Homicide's first RoH World Heavyweight Title defense against Samoa Joe, who he had also had a bad track record against. Homicide beat Joe and Steen-erico will beat The Briscoes in the first title defense. After that, I can't see The Age of the Fall winning back the titles, so there will not be many more teams who could reasonably pose a threat to the belts at this time. By the beggining of 2009, that could easily change as another team gets built up correctly, much like Steen-erico.

Ryan Byers : BUY . Bauer hit the nail on the head here when he noted that a hotshot title change after the big Steen/Generico buildup and win would do the team a disservice and likely piss off a good deal of fans. It's such a painfully obvious proposition that I really have little else to say about it.

3 for 6!


The Seventy Fifth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 3 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.