Wacky Wrestling Theory 11.06.08: Why Wrestling Fans Shouldn't Believe in God
Posted by Jake Chambers on 11.06.2008
Let’s give wrestling fans some credit, they are secure enough to accept and love pro-wrestling as a predetermined art form, so then of course they’re not stupid enough to believe in ‘god’ as well, are they?
Raise your hand if you thought ‘God' was really going to appear at Backlash 2006 to be Shawn Michaels' tag team partner against Vince and Shane McMahon. Nobody right, because that would be ridiculous. Now, raise your hand if you think Chris Jericho legitimately beat Batista for the World Heavyweight Championship. Again, no one is that naive to believe that the Cage Match on RAW's 800th Anniversary Special was a real contest. Yes, I'm going to make the comparison: understanding that pro-wrestling is fake proves that there is no ‘god.'
Pro-wrestling was once thought of as a real sport. I'm not joking. These days when you see the rosters and champions out there, it's kind of hard to see how anyone could have ever bought that small dudes like Chris Jericho and CM Punk could be winners in a universe where The Big Show and Great Khali compete, but yup, it was once a pretty realistic pursuit. Sure there was a time when Frank Gotch, Lou Thesz, Bruno Sammartino, and maybe even Hulk Hogan, looked like they could legitimately beat anyone on the roster and made the matches as realistic as possible (given their era), but not even Kurt Angle or Brock Lesnar, the two most qualified real wrestlers in pro-wrestling history, could make anyone doubt the predetermined nature of pro-wrestling today. The ‘business' has been exposed. Maybe eighty years ago the world didn't have the technology to examine pro-wrestling closely enough to recognize that the moves and blows, in comparison to boxing, were staged, but now we can see all. To appreciate pro-wrestling is to value the craftsmanship of the wrestlers as great dramatists and gymnasts but not as real combatants. Well, I believe that the exposure of pro-wrestling as a phony sport is an excellent comparison to religion and faith, and how believing in an almighty deity, or supernatural force that is responsible for human existence, these days is just as ridiculous as thinking that pro-wrestling is a real sport. Pro-wrestling fans should be considered some of the most enlightened and sophisticated facets of the fandom cultural landscape because they can appreciate wrestling in spite of obvious predetermination. Therefore, it would be ridiculous for any pro-wrestling fan to still believe in something so obviously fake as ‘god.'
Let me write up a quick history lesson for you. Thousands of years ago, there was no way to communicate with the people on the other side of the hill, let alone on another continent. As the evolving humans strived for more communication, and thus more knowledge, they had to invent technology to accommodate these desires and make a better life for their children. Accumulated experience and genetics helped to push men and women away from hovels and into the houses. All along though, there were scary things like lightning and sneezes, which just couldn't be explained by ‘our' eyes. People created magic stories to satisfy their visual confusion based on a lack of factual information. Those oldies can't be faulted for explaining away their fears like this (I mean, most of us today still probably doubt the existence of multiple dimensions, although the mysterious shutting down of the Cern reactor has got to be scaring you at this point, but that's another story…) but thankfully now we can happily elucidate all of the once supernatural things of the world with science or logic, and no longer does anybody have to ‘die' because they stubbed a toe and pissed off some ‘god.' Smart people, although a minority, saw that hocus pocus religious beliefs were both cute and phony, or could be used to manipulate the remaining stupid people. Now pro-wrestling, on the other hand, was once a spectacle that improved on the failings/boringness of wrestling and boxing by taking the art of the combat and stretching it out into a profitable narrative. The intelligently gullible audience believed in it because it looked real and that visual information was a satisfying enough explanation. As television brought the eye of the audience closer, it was only a matter of time before the enlightenment of the audience began. As more people caught on to the fakeness, more bells and whistles had to be added to try and distract people, but again, either smart people appreciated the art of pro-wrestling or the stupid were truly fooled. Organized religion had to take up this same policy of exaggerated distraction, and as pro-wrestling fans we should be able to see right through it all. Instead of futility trying to just scare people into believing something super silly, religions increased all the superficial bullshit to try and distract followers from the reality that there is no ‘god' and make it more difficult for halfway intelligent people to succumb to the idea that a magic man created the universe. What was once a bunch of trustworthy and peaceful, poor people in robes praying for nice things to happen, not coincidently turned into the gaudy Vatican, televangelism and Christian rock. There is a whole lot of flash, and yet not a single quantifiable fact that proves prayers can be answered.
Pro-wrestling is fake; that is a fact. I know there are a lot of people who still take offense to that statement in some kind of odd defensive posturing, but those are probably the same type of sad and conflicted people who are still clinging to the faith that a magic ‘god' exists. Well, I implore all present wrestling fans to accept that ‘god' is a work. The intention of pro-wrestling is to engross the audience with an artistic narrative: good vs. evil, justice, pathos, overcoming the odds, heroism, freedom, you could list the parallels to religious mythology all night. And of course they exist, because religion, just like wrestling, is a story meant to inspire people to do great things or feel good about the world. That's it though; it's all just a story. We know that Stone Cold Steve Austin, no matter how profitable an employee he might be, would never be able to do all that shit to his boss and still keep his job, let alone keep his ass out of jail, in the real world. Yet, the story of Stone Cold inspires us to take back a little of our self-respect against the corruption that irrationally controls the godless real world. There is no irony in the fact the Vince McMahon is the one who beat Shawn Michaels and ‘God' at Backlash that year. Truly Vince McMahon is the closest thing a pro-wrestling fan has to a ‘god.' The man's every human decision controls our actions and moods. When he does something terrible, like fire Matt Hardy, we go crazy with misery and chant as loud as we can, hoping with all our might, that he might hear our one collective voice and give us our heart's desire. Unlike ‘god,' Vince McMahon may really hear you and actually change something, like when he rehired Matt Hardy. Thankfully, we all know this isn't magic. Some (and even many online critics themselves) may like to think of wrestling fans as stupid, but I would argue the opposite. Pro-wrestling fans are at the top of the food chain. We can appreciate pro-wrestling because we readily accept the facts, understand the narrative, are knowledgeable about business and swaying trends, and we don't care when non-fans try to tell us that it's 'fake' because unlike religious people we are secure with the knowledge that what we love is not real. Therefore, we should be on the atheist frontlines of the battle for intelligentsia vs. ignorance, don't you think? Thank you, now worship me!
Wow, another awesome article from the IWC's greatest authority on everything (including multiple dimensions).
Not as good as your article about the 3 sided ring (that had 4 sides).
Hack.
Posted By: Chilly McFreeze (Guest) on November 05, 2008 at 11:33 PM
I tried not to be closed minded, and I gave your column a chance. I did, however find it offensive, and I'm sorry if you truly feel this way.
Posted By: DJS (Guest) on November 05, 2008 at 11:49 PM
I'm an atheist and a pro wrestling fan. But I also have sense, and this is a very stupid article.
Posted By: DG (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 12:54 AM
This article had an interesting premise, and you raised a few points worth discussing, but I think your understanding of organized religion is somewhat shallow.
Posted By: John M (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:28 AM
someone should stop writing articles. this has nothing to do with wrestling. ur just bashing things some people believe in and there is no need for it. wrestlings fake, therefore god is fake. thats your point. no one gives a shit. keep that crap to yourself.
Posted By: rohmark (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:30 AM
Good article....
I think it will upset a quite a few people but I think you prove a point very well.
The irony of it all is that if this wasn't about your personal lack of faith and instead about your real faith then it would be celebrated.
Either way you are doing us unbelievers a good job :-)
Posted By: Tony (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 02:06 AM
I dont mean any offense by this but i dont think that the argument can be made for pro wrestling because long before pro wrestling was as mainstream as it is today. People had things like movies and plays were they were forced to expand their disbelief. Like you know King Kong and shit like that
Posted By: Guest#8970 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 02:29 AM
To the people who are offended by this, please relax. Wacky Wrestling Theory is intended to make some rather stupid comparisons and bogus ideas. You must read this column with an eye to satire and sarcasm. If you can't, simply avoid the column.
An interesting read, as always, if a little bit too far out there for my personal tastes.
Posted By: Last_Rider (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 03:03 AM
while reading I instantly thought: "THAT is gonna piss some people really off"... I don't think your comparism is logical but I don't think it's "offensive" or anything like that.
Posted By: guy incognito (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 03:15 AM
I don't understand the relivance of this article. i'm pretty sure that pro wrestling and something based on a person's faith are very different things. for one, wrestling is scripted;
i'm pretty sure life isn't. wrestling is a show; an event; entertainment. if someone chooses to believe in god, that's for personal and spirtual reasons and should never ever be called stupid for it. maybe next week you can compare football to the devil.
because both of them are real perhaps?
Posted By: Guest#0676 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 03:19 AM
Wrestling's not fake, it's predetermined. Huge difference. Kayfabe is mostly dead, yes, as someone who is in the business I can admit that, but we still get upset when people use the word fake.
Also, even I found this article a bit heavy-handed. I'm not sure if the point of your articles is to make genuine points or to rack up negative comments. You're obviously a good writer, technically speaking, I just think you should put your effort to better use.
Posted By: SeanAltly (Registered) on November 06, 2008 at 03:23 AM
I'm a 5th generation atheist, but honestly... I just don't see the point, that you are making.
Anyway, don't let anyones cries of 'offensive' stop you writing it.
Posted By: PaulOrndorff (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 06:25 AM
I think that's one of the best things I have ever read in the 10+ years I have been reading 411.
Poosibly offensive to some,but i don't give a toss,it was a damn good read. I take my hat off to you sir.
Posted By: Epic (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 06:56 AM
I read your article and found it to be offensive. Now, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to write it and I certainly didn't have to read it. However, I do want to caution you, and some of the other members of 411, on a couple of things.
First, I agree with the comment above that you have seriously oversimplied not only organized religion, but religious faith itself. But hey, that is your own belief. However, Idon't understand why you feel the need to belittle the faith of so many wrestling fans (and wrestlers)? That, not your argument, is the offensive part of this article.
2. What was the point? Too many articles on 411 are straying from wrestling and becoming the author's own personal rants. Again, that's fine. But I won't be reading your articles anymore.
Posted By: cpbasil (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:03 AM
I've never read you before and I didn't enjo what I read. I don't see why you wrote what you did? The yeta isn't real either and he's been in wrestling, why not write about him?
Posted By: Methoes (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:04 AM
Stop Writing you had a good article last time this time.......Just no.
DO YOU MR MORON Realize HALF of all wrestlers are Christians?
FUCKTARD get off my 411
Posted By: The Rev (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:05 AM
You're an idiot...
Posted By: /b/ (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:10 AM
You really need to just shut up and stop writing these offensive and waste-of-time articles! Just go away!
Posted By: Spyke (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:17 AM
This is the most ridiculous shit I have ever read. I will be skipping your artciles in the future, you retard.
Posted By: EdgeHead (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:45 AM
jake chambers...kill yourself
Posted By: guest53 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:55 AM
Making unqualified statements and showing yourself to be a complete jackass is not doing us unbelievers any service...I'm ashamed.
Posted By: Carnivore (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:58 AM
Well, in fact you didn't prove that there is no God, if anything, you have shown how messed up organized religion is. Well, DUH!!!!!
This is possibly one of the most offensive things that I have ever read on this site - yes, even more so than the ridiculous crap that AJ Grey is constantly posting.
If you're a non-believer, that's fine but I'm sick of non-believers telling believers to keep their mouths shut about their beliefs but, hypocritically, think they can go off anytime they choose telling believers that there is no God.
If you don't want to hear from us, keep your own ignorant trap shut.
This article has NO place on this site.
Shame on you, Larry (a supposed believer) for allowing this tripe to be posted.
Posted By: Guest#8400 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 09:10 AM
This reads like an 8th grader's philosophy essay. I don't believe in God, nor Jake Chambers.
Posted By: Andy (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 09:12 AM
Seriously? I have heard plenty of people try to argue against the existence of God, but that is the dumbest argument ever. That's like saying the sky is blue, NASA must be spraying Windex into the sky.
Everyone has faith in something even if it Science. I have to take a leap to believe that Jehovah has always existed and created everything. You have to take a leap to believe that there was this little speck of dust (which came from nowhere) magically exploded and just happened to create the universe.
I don't see the logic in not believing in God, but I don't go around belittling atheists. I don't mind someone trying to convince me to change my mind, but to treat me like I am stupid because you don't believe in someone who is very obviously there is just plain offensive. Atheists often complain about the intolerance that churches often exhibit (something that I as one of Jehovah's Witnesses can attest), but your complaint becomes moot when you are intolerant.
Since Jehovah gave you free will you have the right to express your opinion, but that doesn't mean you can't choose to be nice about it.
I look forward to hearing you give a well reasoned statement of your beliefs rather than the useless dribble you spewed in this article.
Posted By: guest (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:01 AM
This has nothing to do with wrestling. I come here for wrestling. Write about wrestling. Is it really that difficult?
Posted By: Jeremy (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:06 AM
This hack is still writing garbage? Way to attack other people's beliefs, dumbass.
Posted By: Guest#2665 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:07 AM
First of all if "jake chambers" is a tip of the hat to those who quest for the dark tower then say thankee! we are well met, Jake. long days and pleasant nights to you.
Secondly, your logic and methods for 'proving' anything are faulty and your reasons are aslo suspect. if you intend to (like the writers of 'south park') raise an issue for debate/discussion through odd or insulting techniques, you have only have half succeeded. if you are going to do this, something must be said about the issue in a clever or radically different perspective so as to make that point. (Jonathan Swift's "a modest proposal") To attempt this debate and not have that established perspective, is to set yourself up as an insulting bully, and that, I believe, was not your goal. If however, you were not attempting such high-minded discourse, then you are quite simply misguided in many ways.
Posted By: educated savage (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:10 AM
I tend to skip your articles because all of them tend to read like the musings of someone who smoked a lot of pot and stretched one or two sentences to a over-long article. But I had to read this just to feel superior to you.
And do I ever.
"Obviously fake" comments aside (which I don't even need to discuss because your smugness in that line and all over this article says it all), the closing lines here are so insane I've decided this column has to be a work and your brain can't really be seriously thinking this.
"Pro-wrestling fans are at the top of the food chain. We can appreciate pro-wrestling because we readily accept the facts, understand the narrative, are knowledgeable about business and swaying trends, and we don't care when non-fans try to tell us that it's 'fake' because unlike religious people we are secure with the knowledge that what we love is not real. Therefore, we should be on the atheist frontlines of the battle for intelligentsia vs. ignorance, don't you think?"
So wait, pro wrestling fans love something that's fake and that's okay. I follow. What on Earth does this have to do with being on the "atheist frontlines" though? People who enjoy something which know is not real are supposed to fight against people who love something which they think is "real"? "Therefore"? Really? You think that's a rational jump to make?
Assuming this is legit (which I doubt), perhaps you should care less about the ignorant masses and more about what simply makes people happy. GASP!
Posted By: Guest#7466 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Aaron Hubbard is going to shit a chicken when he reads this
Posted By: Dice Clay (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:27 AM
You never even consider a religous person's point of view. Keep the faith.
Posted By: hiiii (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Why would you have an article promoting Atheism on a Wrestling website!? Especially one that essentially boils down to "if you don't agree with me you are an idiot". Wrestling and Faith are exactly 0% related. It's absurd.
Posted By: Guest#0282 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Not a bad article but I dont think it proves a whole lot. Me,I really dont give two shits what anyone believes,you make your own choices about that. Just dont push your beliefs on me,thats all. Also,what would Hubbard think of this article?
Posted By: Tim (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Does 411 have get a nielsen rating? What I mean is that the "charachter" who has been writing these very strange articles for the past few months must just be writhing "contreversial" articlaes to get a rise out of readers of this web site. it like talk radio. Rush Limbaugh says something ridiculous to get listners to call in.
While I don't have a problem with discussion and cotriversy, the premise for these topics and the writing style are so poor that its just a wast of time.
Take a time out dude, get an idea, write it, reread it, rewrite it, double check it for making sense and then send it in to 411.
Just because you are screaming the loudest doesn't mean you are making sense.
Posted By: Big Dirty (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:03 AM
well, you just lost me as a reader for good, I will never click on your articles again
Posted By: OB1 Jabroni (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:12 AM
WORST ARTICLE EVER
Posted By: comic book guy (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:13 AM
I will say this: I don't believe in God, at least not as defined by the Bible, Torrah, or Quran (or Koran, however you spell it). But just because one thing is fake or doesn't exist, that doesn't mean something else (which has no bearing or correlation on the first thing) is also fake or non-existant. This article sucks. I usually like at least reading a decent argument, but what started as a somewhat promising "going against the grain" article has turned into "hey, I still write like a C-average high school freshman, yet I'm kept here and given headlines."
Posted By: AndrewCrow (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:18 AM
I liked this edition of WWT. I can relate to it as I'm a wrestling fan and Atheist. Boosh
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Just when I thought you couldn't get no lamer, you grace us with THIS?
Posted By: Private Sticky (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Jake Chamber = EPIC FAIL
Hey Jake, it's better to leave your muoth shut and be thought an idiot than to speak and erase all doubt.
Posted By: stonecoldstunner (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:55 AM
The Matt Hardy firing was a work, just like the rest of the Hardy/Edge storyline. Here's another newsflash, the Montreal Screwjob was a work as well. You're also a work...everyone is. I'm the big booker in the sky.
Posted By: God (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Sir, you are a good writer and do have the freedom to express yourself as you like. However, your analogy is a poor one. Im a Christian and take no offense to your view as you are certainly entitled to it. However, this doesent seem to be the correct platform for this type of rhetoric.
This is "the wrestling" section of 411mania, no? Lets keep it like that. Also realize, many fans who read the site, as well as many wrestlers are Christians themselves. Again, I personally have no Heaven or Hell to send you to myself, so your opinions don't offend me. But I can toss you some links to several forum boards where this conversation would be relevent. When it comes to wrestling..It is not.
Posted By: Corey Phillips (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 12:07 PM
"If you don't want to hear from us, keep your own ignorant trap shut.
This article has NO place on this site.
Shame on you, Larry (a supposed believer) for allowing this tripe to be posted."
The guy posted an article outlining a theory connecting organized religion to wrestling. You expect Larry, who is a believer, to not post an article simply because he may or may not agree with it?
America is a country founded on freedom of religion. Even if that religious freedom leads to no religion at all. We also have freedom of speech. So whether you agree with Mr. Chambers or not, which I don't personally, you attacking him for his lack of belief is no better than him "attacking" us for our abundance of belief. He does have a right to state his beliefs. Get over it, move on. All the believers should damn well know that things should be forgiven. We are not the ones to judge, that job belongs to someone else.
Posted By: Toddo (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 12:31 PM
How does he have an article? I do not wish bad on you Jake. I just wish good on this site and they get rid of you!
Posted By: T-Mac (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:02 PM
Another thing I did not think you could top that "make blading" part of the story. You know nothing about wrestling and now that I think about it I wish bad on you.
Posted By: T-Mac (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Your an idiot and I will never read one of your articles again!
Posted By: BamaHog (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:24 PM
Jake Chambers is a work.. his real name is WARRRYAH WARRRYAAAAAAH!!!
WARRRYAAAAAAAAAH!!!
Think about it... who hates queerin' cenas and women wrestlers
INTELLIGENTIA IS THE 'WARRIOR WORD' FOR THE DAY
yes, god is really waaaaryaaah... we still believe in u waaaaryaaaah! we feel the power of the ultimate waaaaryaaaah!
WACKY WRESTLING THEORIES = WARRIOR WARRIOR THEORIES
Posted By: I still believe (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:27 PM
Looks like someone just watched religulous. Seriously dude comparing faith to pro wrestling [and then Vince to God] is ridiculous. But that was your point wasnt it? Somebody has been kicked off of one to many forums for his "God is stupid" diatribe. I usually skip your article anyway, so I am sure you are going to clam victory when you see that people who disagree with you are posting a respose to your " oh so fucking brilliant " heel promo. Dont get me wrong,i am not a Jesus nerd by any means, But your argument was intended to piss people off. Are you that insecure that you justify drive by atheism with a snarky little comment like "worship me"? Im sorry to tell you that you have changed no minds. If you want to convert people to your cause you should try reason and logic instead of "Your an idiot and heres why"
Posted By: guest (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 01:48 PM
Horrible, offensive, and dumb! Someone's trying to be "cutting edge" and they're 30 years too late. No redeeming quality what-so-ever in this complete waste of time. I won't make the same mistake with this "columnist" again.
Posted By: Brad K. (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Great column as usual, Jake Chambers.
Once again, you've outdone yourself coming up with a outlandish and completely assinine topic that brings out all of the I'm-smarter-than-you-know-it-alls that come to this site and their hate mail.
I laugh whenever I read the comments sections and see how riled up some of you buffoons are. Get a life for God's sake.
Also, for those that doubt Chambers value to the site. See how many comments he receives compared to other columns. Numbers don't lie bitches.
Have a good weekend and for the record, the column was a little weak compared to past work.
Posted By: Angry Bear (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 02:20 PM
This is not a brilliant article. It is poorly written garbage by a writer lacking in creativity.
Posted By: Don (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 02:30 PM
This article needs more in-ring full-penetration-rape-blading. That was at least perversely entertaining reading.
Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 03:55 PM
Another "shock" column. If the only way to get attention is by writing these attention seeking articles, just give up already. Do all of us a favor and come up with a new format, something different that sets you apart, not this disaster you have going on each week.
Posted By: JcJames (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 04:11 PM
There were some pretty big logical holes there, Jake, mostly due to the REALLY broad brush you used to paint religious people. So, all religious leaders used to be constantly-berobed do-gooders who set out to inspire and now they're all sinister advertising executives in big, funky hats, huh? Generalizing has NEVER done any favors for the quality of an essay... not if the reader is paying any attention anyway. Speaking of readers who probably DIDN'T pay much attention, and probably don't like books very much, I thought this was comment was hilarious...
"DO YOU MR MORON Realize HALF of all wrestlers are Christians??"
What's funnier than someone passionately presenting an irrelevant and clearly made-up "fact", and with such conviction?
**LISTEN, MOTHERFUCKER: do you KING JACKASS STUPIDFACE realize a THIRD of all professional hockey players HATE MEXICAN FOOD?!?!**
Yeah, that'll show you...
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered) on November 06, 2008 at 04:13 PM
I hope your attempting to be a satirist.
Don't think that you know more about what pro wrestling symbollicly means or it's values than the actual wrestlers.
two of my favorite wrestlers, AJ Styles and Shawn Micheals are very much practicing christians!
Until you can out awesome AJ Styles, Wrestling is a thing that should be fore the faithful!
Posted By: Davis (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 04:43 PM
Failure. There is absolutely nothing in here that makes God and pro wrestling the same thing.
Gross oversimplification. Bad generalizations. Gratuitous fishing for a reaction. Your moveset isn't working for me here. I wish you well in your future endeavors.
Posted By: The Glide (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 04:48 PM
You seem to have gotten religious discussion in my wrestling. Please get it out. I will say that Jake Chambers is great at what he does. He has a real talent of writing shitty columns that piss people off to get attention. That's why he already has 50 comments. Also, good job pissing off atheists. I'm going to assume that you are a religious person who is trying to make atheists look bad.
Posted By: AnonScalia (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 04:51 PM
I will be skipping any columns you write in future. If your an atheist thats fine but as a wrestling fan and a christian I do not enjoy being insulted because of my faith I don't mind gentle good humor and can joke and laugh about most aspects of my faith at times. But this column was neither clever or funny.
Posted By: Britishfan (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 05:37 PM
Boy I wish HBK could read this one.. Anyway, I am a Christian, and do believe in God. You are entitled to your opinions and your column, but this read is very far-fetched. I became a Christian at 4 and a wrestling fan at 5. As I got older, I knew wrestling was fake...it is "entertainment". Just like anything you see on tv, it is meant to entertain.
By your theory, if we watch tv and realize that everyone is an actor, there is no God. That is just absurd.
I'm not gonna be immature here, as you are entitled to your freedom of speech, and I'm sure some ppl do buy into your theory.
What I will do however, is say a prayer for you. I will pray that somehow you will realize that you are trying to place the entire entertainment industry in the hands of non-believers, and that is just too broad of a theory to even comprehend.
God Bless you...
Posted By: Skiddy (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 05:40 PM
Pretty ignorant stuff.
Posted By: Hero (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 05:49 PM
Besides. Wrestling is staged, not fake. I'm sure a lot of people in the business would agree.
Posted By: Hero (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 05:57 PM
Good stuff as always Chambers. And it's pretty funny how many rubes say they'll never read another one of these, and yet there's always a pile of comments when a new one comes out. You dorks love Jake Chambers. You need Jake Chambers. If only to have someone to get irrationally angry at.
Posted By: Chopper (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 06:04 PM
I'll be a sheep and give you hits and comments to laugh at for writing something provocative :D
However if you beleived half the crap you just wrote, it would make clear 3 things : 1 - you've never been in a real fight, and you think bigger people win because they're bigger (jericho skooled goldberg in a backstage shoot ffs), 2 - you're just as closeminded and arrogant as the other spoonfed 'interlectuals' who think they're enlightened by science journals, 3 - you don't goto church xD Suck hackdom it's getting funny on here now
Posted By: Sheep (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 06:14 PM
Look, I know you're writing this just to get a rise and because you can't think of anything better to write about. But, if Richard Dawkins cannot hold up a decent case against the existance of God, then I find myself doubting that a writer for a website can. If you find some comparison between a KNOWN work of fiction (wrestling) and a non fictional worldview (theism), then perhaps you should take a class in philosophy, because even a die hard atheist who knows their stuff wouldn't compare these two. In fact, by your comparison, wrestling fans would be the same thing as religious folks today. Personally, I have a subjective (personal) experience of God, so I guess you could say that's like seeing an actual FIGHT between two WWE superstars, for real :)
Posted By: Kaze101 (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 07:25 PM
I don't even know where to start.
First of all, I cringe a bit thinking that your next column will start off with "Boy, did I piss off everyone with my last column!", making a fairly obvious play for controversy and attention successful. Regardless, if that was your intent, you have, in all fairness, succeeded. Nearly 70 comments. I give you credit for getting people talking, but that's pretty much where it ends.
Insulting your audience is never really a good idea. You either did this intentionally or you assumed that everyone who clicked the link was a non-believer (in the words of the late, great Gorilla Monsoon - "highly unlikely." Referring to believers as "stupid" is probably going to cost you some credibility - even on a wrestling site. These taunts, coupled with your need to ignore some grammar rules (not capitalizing God is a grammatical error - even if you don't believe, it's still a proper noun) are really showing a serious lack of subtlety. You don't believe in God - that's your right. But intelligent points don't have to be made with a sledgehammer.
Belief in God is based on faith. Many have never seen him, but we choose to believe for our own reasons. Those don't necessarily include a penchant for being brainwashed. Perhaps we feel His presence. You said "Raise your hand if you thought ‘God' was really going to appear at Backlash 2006 to be Shawn Michaels' tag team partner against Vince and Shane McMahon." He may not have been Shawn's partner, but who is to say that He wasn't there, ensuring that the combatants remained safe?
I don't see the validity in a legitimate comparison between the predetermined nature of wrestling and faith. I understand the satirical nature of the column, but it just seems like an attempt to get some material out about your personal beliefs. You are also, as mentioned before, painting a lot of people with a broad brush. I honestly have to wonder if you stereotype ethnic groups the same way that you do with persons who choose (their right) to be of faith.
As I said before, you've certainly succeeded in getting the masses talking. Congratulations on that. But for all of your faux high-minded claptrap, I don't find your article offensive....just cliche.
Posted By: The Yak (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 08:01 PM
Man is this gnna wrestle some feathers...
I see the comparison, considering they;re both cathartic "opaites of the masses" (to borrow a quote from Marx). While I lean towards your theory, on the other hand, I don't believe in dogging people for their spiritiual faith.
And who's to say there isn't a higher order out there? (And keep in mind I'm an atheist).
Posted By: lilwayne1 (Registered) on November 06, 2008 at 08:03 PM
"I see the comparison, considering they;re both cathartic "opaites of the masses" (to borrow a quote from Marx)."
I have every Richard Marx CD ever made and I for one, sir, have never heard that lyric. Hold on to the Nights.
Posted By: A River Runs Screw It (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 09:22 PM
I honestly can not finish reading this arrogant piece of garbage. Now I will not take away your right to say what you want, but who the hell really thinks God has anything to do with this? I have my faith in God and I believe in His works, but how can you honestly think that because Chris Jericho wins a cage match against Batista that he doesn't exist. God exist because of the faith we have in Him and if you don't, he still there. I agree where God wouldn't show up to Backlash and team with Shawn Michaels, but you have to think more logically, if you consider yourself a logical person, and if you had a less biased opinion, you would know from the bible that He will not come back until the rapture. But be honest with yourself that wrestling and God have nothing to do with one another and the predetermination that there is in professional wrestling is not affected by God's existance, but rather by one's talent or ability to entertain the audience, fans, idiots(as you call us), etc. Just really don't be such a moron. GOD BLESS YOU!!!
Posted By: danny (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 09:24 PM
Let me present an exact parallel to your argument that shows why it is bad.
Fish don't exist - they are fake! Wrestling fans are experts at determining fake things. Therefore, wrestling fans should realize that fish don't exist: Fish are a work!
Or the parallel argument:
Unicorns don't exist - they are fake! Wrestling fans are experts at determining fake things. Therefore, wrestling fans should realize that unicorns don't exist: Unicorns are a work.
In other words, unless you start by assuming that God doesn't exist, there isn't a work for wrestling fans to be detecting. And if you do assume that God doesn't exist, there's no need for the argument.
Posted By: Pat Shepard (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:33 PM
"There is a whole lot of flash, and yet not a single quantifiable fact that proves prayers can be answered."
Jake, imagine that you are God for a minute. Now, someone goes around bashing you all day, saying you don't exist, and that you are a joke. Are you gonna help them? In Zechariah 7:13, God says "I called, and you did not answer. So, when you called, I did not answer." Also, just because God didn't answer your prayers the way you wanted him to, doesn't mean he didn't answer them. Think of a 4 year old asking their parents for icecream for dinner. When their parents make them eat vegetables, the kid throws a fit and claims he hates them, just because he didn't get what he wanted.
God helps those who call his name. Any of you atheists ever ask him for something? try it.
Oh, and having faith doesn't mean knowing all of the facts. Its about trust.
Posted By: Jordan (Guest) on November 06, 2008 at 10:37 PM
You're an F'ng moron..... save stupid shit like this for your high school. This whole thing about 411 "hiring" anyone really has to change. What a waste of space this article is.
Posted By: THE Zachariah Zantabulator (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Well Jordan, you just painted god as very simple, very human, and really kind of pathetic. I mean, if you're an omnipotent all powerful being, are you really going to be mad if some people talk shit about you?
And did you really ask if atheists' prayers are answered? You seem very confused, bud.
Posted By: Chopper (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 02:22 AM
When will this trash be put to sleep?
Posted By: King Nikolai (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 03:51 AM
This article was soooo stupid that I'm not even going to address it with a comment post. Atheistic idiot.
Posted By: The Holy One of Israel (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Don't you people GET IT?!
This article is the 411wrestling's anser to the Colbert Report.
Of COURSE he doesn't believe what just came out of his mouth... but he's doing it to entertain us and spark crazy discussion...
And judging by the HUGE stream of comments he leaves behind him after every article... he's doing his job.
People taking this seriously are the real idiots... not Chambers.
Posted By: Rollz... (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 12:22 PM
I didn't even read your column because there is no relevancy between God (or the lack thereof) and wrestling.
I think all you faithful should just keep your traps shut and stop being hypocrites. It is freedom of speech and he can write what he wants in his column. Why do you think they hired him anyways.
Posted By: Talon (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 04:57 PM
Jake Chambers, please find a new job.
:)
Posted By: Ray A (Guest) on November 07, 2008 at 09:13 PM
I may think the points were useless drivel...but dayum...You got enough talent to score some comments sir. That is to be commended.
Posted By: Carnivore (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 12:05 AM
This article just wanders around and isn't cohesive -- but some of the comments were interesting. I'm confused why people are offended by it to some degree. I don't see anywhere that he boldly states "You Jesus people are morons"
The question in my mind to some of the folks that commented here is:
Is it not cool to say to a believer that their belief in God seems silly to me and that I might view it as a personal character flaw on your behalf?
To me, that seems like a fair and reasonable opinion to voice and I don't see why anyone should find that offensive, so long that obscenities and name calling stay out of the conversation. Faith in general lends itself to skepticism in the absence of facts or evidence and I personally think it's very reasonable to call it to question.
Posted By: Rob (Guest) on November 09, 2008 at 01:01 PM
this has to be the worst article i have ever read. it lacks substance, its more or less an ignorant ramble. you should REALLY know what you are talking about if you want an opinion on something. get this through your head...WRESTLING IS NOT FAKE...its predetermined. are movies fake? is broadway fake? are tv shows fake? NO they are REAL.
in all honesty, i think jake chambers would could be a decent writer if he actually knew what he was writing about.
Posted By: mikecheck (Guest) on December 14, 2008 at 10:44 PM
