Column of Honor: 11.08.08: Calling London, Part One
Posted by Ari Berenstein on 11.08.2008
Paul London was released from WWE and Ring of Honor MUST sign him right away. Also, results from ROH’s debut show in Montreal and round five of the reader voted CHIKARA vs. ROH best of seven series!
Welcome to the Column.
Ring Toss
-11/07 Montreal, Quebec, Canada Results
-Calling London
-Chikara vs. ROH Round 5
-ROH Call
-ROH News
-My Fave Five
-Honorarium
-ROH Preview: November 8th, 2008 in Markham, Ontario, Canada
-Ringtones
-Independent Buy In
-Get with the pROHgram
-ROH @ 411
-Honor Bound Links
ROH Debuts in Montreal—11/07/08 Montreal, Quebec, Canada Results
Matches
Preshow
-Stupefied defeated Excess, Dan Paysan and Green Phantom in a four corner survival match.
Main Show
-Erick Stevens defeated Eddie Edwards via pinfall with a Doctor Bomb.
-Jay & Mark Briscoe defeated Kenny King & Kenny Omega via pinfall on Kenny Omega with the springboard doomsday device after Kenny King leaves Omega in the ring.
-Necro Butcher defeated Brodie Lee via disqualification because of interference from The Age of the Fall.
-Jerry Lynn defeated Delirious via pinfall with the Cradle Piledriver.
-Davey Richards defeated Roderick Strong via pinfall after interference from Eddie Edwards and a Richards Tiger Driver (one of Strong's signature moves).
-Teamwork of Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries defeated The Age of the Fall of Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black via submission when Aries tapped Jacobs with the Last Chancery.
-ROH World Champion Nigel McGuinness retained his title by winning a Four Way Elimination Match against FIP Heavyweight Champion Go Shiozaki and ROH World Tag Team Champions Kevin Steen & El Generico. First Elimination: El Generico eliminated by Go Shiozaki following a low blow from McGuinness and a Go Flasher. Second Elimination: Go Shiozaki eliminated by Kevin Steen with the Steenshooter. Third Elimination: Kevin Steen eliminated by Nigel McGuiness via pinfall with a Jawbreaker Lariat.
Angles & Issues
-Kingship: Kenny King and Rhett Titus have some sort of partnership or friendship occurring, as King left Omega and high fived Titus who was waiting for him on the ROH stage (called this in the ROH Roundtable).
-Hart Breaker Lariat: In order to set up McGuinness as the heel in the main event (as if there was any doubt), McGuinness cut a promo mid-show basically blasting Montreal and breaking out his awesome take off of Bret "Hitman" Hart's famous line. When he claimed he was "the best there is, was and ever will be" oh so many years ago during his pure run, it was pure genius at the time. It's still gold even after all this time.
-The Beatdown is Go!: Go Shiozaki, Shane Hagadorn, Eddie Edwards and Davey Richards combined their efforts to rail on Roderick Strong four on one until Erick Stevens , former rival of Strong, made the save. Strong and Stevens stared each other down, but did not shake hands and left the ring individually.
-Falling Down and Over Each Other? Jimmy Jacobs continued to engaged Tyler Black in the blame game following another loss as a team since they lost the tag titles. Jacobs and Black left the ring without speaking to each other, thus foreshadowing future problems within that rebel outfit.
-After the main event, Kevin Steen and El Generico thanked the crowd, addressing them in French.
Return Date: April 17th, 2009
Calling London
Yesterday the inevitable happened and WWE released Paul London from his contract after months of absentia from television. And while it's never the best to be happy or excited about someone losing their job, the internet Ring of Honor fans all around the world read this news and likely shouted out in massive amounts of excitement and joy. One of the major talking points for ROH fans of the last four years has been what would happen in Paul London, one of if not perhaps the first true homegrown stars of the company, were to return and make another serious go?
This is just one reason why Ring of Honor must sign Paul London immediately. Quite frankly, Adam Pearce and Cary Silkin need to be on the phone with him right now, yes, right this very second, securing London's services. In this time of cost-cutting and changes in ROH booking, one thing is very exceedingly clear—ROH needs Paul London in the fold and the men behind the scenes should do what it takes to sign him up to an ROH contract.
London may be the best free agent formerly from WWE on the market right now and you can probably expect TNA to show interest in signing him up, as they usually do when WWE wrestlers are released. ROH has signed its far share of ex-WWE wrestlers as well, including James Gibson back in 2005 and Brent Albright in late 2006. However, Paul London is more similar to Spanky / Bryan Kendrick in that he began to make his name for himself in Ring of Honor back in 2002. Kendrick had a good start working in Japan at the time, but London truly rose from the bottom to the top in ROH. In two short years he became a top flight athlete and a true beloved fan favorite in the company. In fact, the infamous "please don't die" chant originated from a London match—and at the time it was meant in earnest and not any sort of sarcastic remark on a high risk move about to be performed. That is the extent to which the fans cared for and appreciated London. He excited the fans with his aerial skills and his almost fearless attitude in hitting those big time moves.
Fan excitement, name value and fresh matches are the major positives of signing Paul London. He can make the audience, especially the ROH crowd, really care about his actions in the ring. It is that emotional reaction ROH needs to have in the fold, especially as they look to 2009. ROH finds itself at the precipice of change in the promotion, and that means new stars such as Tyler Black mixing it up with some of the best wrestlers currently in the promotion. Paul London provides the best of both worlds, being someone ROH fans are already knowledgeable about but also someone who hasn't been in ROH for quite some time.
London also has name value coming from WWE, even with his absence from television. London actually had a very good run in WWE despite a history of not having the favor of those in power backstage. London was a cruiserweight champion, often highlighting Velocity with some really good matches against the likes of Jimmy Yang. More famously he and Brian Kendrick teamed up and were given a full year run as the tag champions for the Smackdown brand. While they were sometimes snubbed in terms of Pay Per View matches, whenever they wrestled it was clear that they shined brightly in comparison to the other tag teams in the company. Unfortunately London seemed to piss off the wrong people and the wrong McMahons at the wrong time. He was kept off of television these past few months, even when he could have been a really good asset to the Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels feud. Lance Cade was backing up Jericho, and London playing off against him as both being star pupils of Shawn Michaels would have provided an excellent program even more depth and nuance. Unfortunately WWE, often doesn't go for such extracurricular subtleties and so London was jobbed out quickly by Cade and Jericho and then disappeared off the face of the earth. The final slap in the face was when Layla El was given the last name "London" to go hand in hand with her new role as William Regal's valet. At least WWE didn't change Paul's last name to Garrison or Gregory while they were at it.
ROH can capitalize right now with the signing of London, especially in any new efforts to get the word out to wrestling fans about their shows. He is a known name and an attractive commodity that can be used to sell tickets and bring new fans into the product, which right now is basically going to be a "jumping on point" for new viewers as the programs from 2008 head into their last phases and the company enters '09 with a new booker, a slightly updated style and new hopes for success. London can and absolutely should be a big part of these efforts.
There are so many new pairings you can do with London, including the hot up and comer in Tyler Black, Austin Aries, Claudio Castagnoli and the list goes on and on. London's in ring skills took a backseat in WWE, but long time ROH fans know that London has the chops to be on the main event level of the promotion. Of course, another match against current main event talent Bryan Danielson would be incredible. The two out of three falls match between Danielson and London from The Epic Encounter show in 2003 still holds up after all this time. What would a match between the two be like in 2008?
Ring of Honor has to strike now and strike fast. Even if London has a 90 day non-compete clause in his WWE contract, ROH still needs to act and make sure that if London is going to continue to wrestle that he will do it for them. I can only guess that TNA would be very interested in signing London, but like many new acquisitions, it would be a short honeymoon and an even longer viewer's remorse. TNA has a proven track record that it can bungle any sure thing. It scares me to even think of how badly they could waste London's potential, perhaps even more than WWE ever could. In Ring of Honor, London can perform to the best of his abilities, play a very valuable part in helping to promote the product and since ROH does have a track record of using talents successfully you can almost guarantee they wouldn't mess up his return and any future programs.
May 2009 is going to be a chaotic period on the wrestling landscape. A lot of ROH contracts will be up and I'm assuming negotiations will soon be underway for renewals and the like, that is if ROH is going to continue with its current model of contracting wrestlers. Some TNA wrestlers like Christian Cage could be on their way out of the promotion. No, Paul London doesn't have the name value of a Christian Cage, but he does have a lot of worth for ROH right now. It would behoove ROH to add some security right now to their talent pool by signing London to a contract and ensuring that they have a marquee name for their brand, just in case there are any losses in talent in the new year.
ROH, call Paul London now. Sign him up before TNA does. This could be the best thing at the best time for all parties involved.
Chikara vs. Ring of Honor BEST OF SEVEN SERIES Round 5
The survival of the fittest continues here between CHIKARA and Ring of Honor in week five of the Column of Honor best of seven series. Last week, CHIKARA pulled ahead once more in a split decision between Brodie Lee and Necro Butcher. CHIKARA's Big Rig pulled out the win in a close and maybe controversial call. However, this week proved to be a clear swing of momentum in the other direction and Ring of Honor has once again come back to tie the series. We'll discuss that and more as we head into the crucial deciding matches that will guide our cross-over fantasy series towards its finale.
The best part of this series is that THE READERS DECIDE WHO WINS. That's right, be sure to vote at the bottom of the page in the comments section or send me an email me with your vote about who you think would win each fantasy match. I'll post results in the following week's column.
Last week we had some of the biggest guns in Ring of Honor—The Briscoes, Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson—unleashed against one of CHIKARA's most vile and tyrannical trios in F.I.S.T. and their partner for the match in Claudio Castagnoli. A lot of crazy action can happen in an eight-man tag match, but the right strategy and game plan can certainly help to guide one side to victory over another. Which side did the fans take? Let's hear from the readers:
Guest#5771: Not only would Team ROH win, they'd be in the showers after less than five minutes.
Matt Short: Lots of people are looking past F.I.S.T and Claudio. The fact is that Icarus and Akuma are a lot more well traveled than people give them credit for and have beaten top teams from all over the world. They even have a win over The Briscoes. Chuck Taylor is a wild card, but is more than capable of hanging with anyone on Team ROH. Claudio is the wild card since he's a technico compared to F.I.S.T.'s rudo ways and he might not get along with them all. BUT looking at past history Claudio does have experience teaming with them as members of the FULL Kings of Wrestling stable. I pick Team CHIKARA in a massive upset.
Chad: Team ROH you dont have the best in the world and not win!!
Chris: ROH easily takes this round. They have best tag team in wrestling today plus two of the top 5 Indy workers on their team.
Guest#0060: No brainer. Team ROH. F.I.S.T and Claudio are good no doubt about it and Icarus and Akuma did beat the Briscoes before(only to be destroyed afterwards) but not in team ROH's class.
Curtis: I say RoH takes this, even though FIST beat the Briscoes in CHIKARA I dont think they would win this match . . . Although this loss highly favours CHIKARA in the long run as 4 top RoH guys are out and CHIKARA still has their true top talent remaining as the previously mentioned Quack, Hallowicked and Kingston.
D.P.: Team ROH gets the W,easily.
CHIKARA did get a good amount of support for this one and some called for the upset, but it wasn't enough. The clear winner, by a majority decision is TEAM ROH. Danielson, Aries and The Briscoes combined and had too much firepower and too much previous experience to let themselves be fully aggravated by F.I.S.T.'s actions. Even if we take Danielson and Castagnoli out of the equation, say by having them brawl around the ring and to the back, The Briscoes and Aries still have enough in their arsenal to take out Team F.I.S.T. They'd clear the ring and isolate one man, likely Taylor, and unleash a bevy of finishing moves until the "Sexy" one was a quivering mass of Jell-O. Aries brainbusters Taylor and floats over and up so that Jay can hoist him up for the Springboard Doomsday Device. That's enough for the pinfall and the win to the dream team of ROH.
Here's the scoreboard as it now stands:
22
The Series-at-a-Glance:
Rnd 1: The Colony defeat The Vulture Squad (unanimous decision) CHIK 1 ROH 0
Rnd 2: The Age of the Fall defeat The UnStable (unanimous decision) CHIK 1 ROH 1
Rnd 3: Brodie Lee defeats Necro Butcher (split decision) CHIK 2 ROH 1
Rnd 4: Team ROH defeat F.I.S.T. & Castagnoli (majority decision) CHIK 2 ROH 2
Once again we have a tie ball game. It's down to the proverbial best two out of three. There are some big names on each side left to square off, but something Curtis mentioned in the reader comments does concern me. Did ROH use all their ammo on one match, losing track of the bigger picture in order to secure the tie? Do they have enough left to go up well against some of CHIKARA's bigger names that are left? We'll have to wait and see how the match ups form., but Round Five will test that very thought, a six-man tag set for one fall with Lucha Rules (no tags necessary) in effect:
ROH World Tag Team Champions Kevin Steen & El Generico & Roderick Strong (ROH)
-vs.-
CHIKARA Campeones de Parejas The Osirian Portal (Amasis & Ophidian) & Eddie Kingston (CHIKARA)
I was always going to put the tag champions from each promotion against each other. When I began this adventure, the Super Smash Brothers were the campeones de parejas, but all of that changed when rookie upstarts The Osirian Portal struck and snaked their way to the titles. Ring of Honor actually just presented Steen & Generico vs. The Osirian Portal on their Ring of Homicide 2 show, so this match needs a little bit more "oomph". That "oomph" comes from none other than the wild card himself, the dangerous, violent, dark and brooding "Last of a Dying Breed" Eddie "F'N" Kingston! Now Eddie doesn't really care about anyone else but himself and feeding his own hunger for unleashing violence on the world, but if that means he has to team up with The Egyptian and The Snake, so be it. Steen & Generico would need to respond in kind, finding someone to team up with who can unleash hell and do it without any remorse. So these men turn to Roderick Strong, messiah of the backbreaker and chopmaster 5000 extraordinaire. Well, really, Steen had to do the convincing; Generico mostly stood there and said "ole!" a lot. Strong and Kingston will no doubt butt heads in this match, but who will win it?
Kevin Steen & El Generico & Roderick Strong
Strengths: Steen & Generico are the tag champions and at the top of their in-ring game right now. Both men have the right moves and the right attitude towards winning. The idea of being the winner gets them passionate (especially Steen) and fires them up to push beyond their limitations and achieve. Steen loves to annoy his opponents both with his witty banter and his quasi-arrogant actions such as snot-blowing and being rude. He may not look the part, but he is also a great motivator, especially for his best friend, sometimes rival and partner in championship excellence El Generico. The masked Luchador is lean but plucky. He is like a Timex watch, keeping on keeping on after taking a licking. No one can doubt his offensive firepower, including the running Ole boot and the brainbuster. As for Strong, he can unload a ton of stiff strikes and boots as well, but what often gets overlooked is his technical wrestling ability. He doesn't have to rely on it because his trademark moves often get the job done, but Strong can wrestle with the best of them. The question is will he be able to use those skills to overtake his opponents here, or will he get suckered into a strike fest with Kingston and have to take his chances at landing "the best punch". Weaknesses: Like last week, the wrestlers representing ROH do often have a short temper, especially Steen and Strong. However, except only Kingston on the CHIKARA side really focuses on antagonizing an opponent to the point of losing cool. The Portal focus on other psychological factors, such as scare tactics. I doubt Steen or Strong is afraid of snakes, but you never know. Generico? He may be a weaker heart, but one slap from Generico and he'll "man up" and take the lead. If there's one real weakness it would probably be overconfidence, again from Steen and Strong. Both men may downshift if they see the match is clearly in control, and that could lead to a massive upset. Generico meanwhile, fights from behind with gusto, but that means he has to take a beat down first, and that could be too little, too late, especially when Kingston is on the other side of the ring. Best moves: Steen: Package Piledriver, Steenshooter, Steenalizer; Generico: Ole boot, brainbuster, brainbuster from the top rope; Steen & Generico: Splash / Swanton combination, Packaage Piledriver into brainbuster combination; Strong: chops, back breakers, Strong Hold submission, Gibson Driver, Double Knees into Rib Cage.
Video by: ringofhonor
Video by: ringofhonor
The Osirian Portal (Amasis & Ophidian) & Eddie Kingston
Strengths: The Osirian Portal may only be first year rookies, but their tag team chemistry and cohesive goes way beyond that time frame. They have the ability to work together, see where the other is coming from and use that positioning to their advantage. They also have a massive amount of double team moves and unique ones at that. Most wrestlers have not encountered their tag combinations such as the arm drag into shoulder tackle in the turnbuckle, or the charm dancer that has hypnotized just about every opponent. That means their moves are tough to anticipate or to counter, and when you can't counter moves, you get overwhelmed to the point where you can't come back. Misdirection and intimidation are also one of their greatest strengths. Amasis may be a "funky Pharaoh" but he has a hard heart and his juke and jiving is only there to lead an opponent into a false sense of security. Meanwhile, Ophidian's snake like form and behavior serves to throw off any opponents with a phobia of snakes. It's a creepy act and truly is unorthodox. On the other hand, Eddie Kingston intimidates through pure brutality. He isn't going to play mind games so much as smack your mind upside your head with a vicious punch or boot. Kingston has a mean streak two miles wide and uses anything at anytime to get the advantage. Not only can he lay a vicious ass whupping on his opponents, he also can take a hefty amount of offense and come back for more. He has quick recovery time from big impact moves and has really good stamina for a guy who doesn't look like he's running marathon s… I hope he doesn't read that comment and comes looking for me. Weaknesses: Kingston can take a punch or chop or two, but can Amasis and Ophidian? Their young and ready to rumble, but I don't know if they can handle some of the higher powered impact moves of guys like Steen and Generico. In fact, we already saw them lose to them in a tag match. Would that loss play into their heads when facing off against the top of ROH once more? Kingston, for as much as he loves to inflict violence, also comes across sometimes as a question mark. He may be so far off the deep end that his partners can't count on him not doing something over the line and causing a disqualification. Kingston's bloodlust is both his blessing and his curse. Best Moves: Amasis: Twist of Funk, 450 Splash, Flying split & spin leg drop; Ophidian: flying V leg splash in turnbuckle, Death Grip, Diving Knee Drop; Ophidian & Amasis: snake-charmer, totem-pole superplex, simultaneous flying splash and leg drop; Kingston: backdrop driver, spinning back fist, lariat, running big boot.
Video by: mailingitin
Video by: mailingitin
Video by: matthewhack
Video by: BLKimbo
It's a tag team clash of titans and its now made that much more intense with the addition of Kingston and Strong on each side. So who wins this week? Comment below with your votes and send in those emails and we'll find out…next week!
We'll be back in a few for PART TWO of the Column of Honor!
Kingston misses the match due to "personal problems". Team ROH beats the hell out of Snake & King Tut. The crowd looks to the entrance way expecting to see Kingston. Kingston sits on his couch and snorts a rail. Team ROH wins.
Posted By: skinner (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 01:16 PM
If you're a fan of Paul London, you should be hoping to see him land in TNA. I know, I know, everybody on the internet loves Ring of Honor and thinks that Ring of Honor's opening matches are better than Steamboat vs. Savage, Flair vs. Funk, Michaels vs. Hart, and the Midnights vs. The Fantastics combined. Here's the thing, though - RoH's sense of self worth is a little over inflated.
They're a nice niche, and nothing else. When all is said and done, they're still playing to small crowds on a regional level and putting out ppv's recorded months in advance to buyrates that would be dwarved by a PPV with a main event of Festus vs. Santino Marella in an Ironman match with Mike Adamle as special referee. Seriously. I'm not a huge WWE fan, but it's the truth.
London needs to go to TNA for his own good. Rip them all you want for lack of creative direction, but they're on television every week, pulling in reasonable crowds at house shows, and their ppv's are actually LIVE. There's a ton of guys for London to work with in TNA that are just as good or better than the potential opponents in Ring of Honor. AJ? Curry Man? Lethal? Williams? Shelly? Sabin? Joe? Christian? Angle? Homicide? Ring of Honor doesn't offer London anything that TNA doesn't except the opportunity to wrestle for an hour in a gym.
If you're a fan of Paul London, you should want to see him go where the crowds are bigger, the paychecks are more substantial, and you can see him on television every week.
Asking him to go back to Ring of Honor would be like saying the Cardinals should send Albert Pujols to your favorite AAA team because you're a fan of his and it's what best for him. It's self serving, ridiculous, and just plain wrong.
Posted By: A fan of London (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 01:16 PM
My vote this week goes to Steenerico and Strong.
But to comment on what 'A fan of London' said: it's all well and good to say that London should head over to TNA, but you're forgetting that TNA are in the midst of cost-cutting. Not to mention the fact that TNA barely have time to work angles relative to their CURRENT roster.
I'd also like to point out the success that has met Austin Aries back in ROH since he bailed from TNA.
The choice is a very simple one: LONDON TO ROH
Posted By: TAT (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 01:39 PM
LONDON IS FREE!!!SCREW YOU VINCE FOR TREATING LONDON LIKE A PIECE OF SHIT
Posted By: Paul London is Free aka This Guy (Registered) on November 08, 2008 at 02:18 PM
I can understand London going to TNA if they can offer him the big money. He has to make a living, it's not like he's banked away money like Foley. That being said...
"A Fan of London," you're rather far off on your claims. ROH fans think that opening matches are better than the classics you listed? You're making shit up, which means you're desperate from the beginning.
TNA has live PPV's? Yep... and they draw about what the average ROH show draws. It's been proven time and time again - TNA can only draw a large crowd when the tickets are free.
London will be on TV every week? Yeah, right. He'll make it somewhere in that 20 minutes of wrestling we get (if we're lucky). TNA can't use the talent they have now, so how do you expect to add someone else to the mix? Especially when you have Foley and the Middle-aged mafia / Senior Citizens of Wrestling taking up at least half the show?
Posted By: Scott B (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 03:12 PM
1. WHOOO! I too want to see London go to ROH (or PWG, whichever one). I really want to see him v. Steen one day. If he's goes to TNA i'd be disappointed.
2. Steenerico and Strong, definatley.
Posted By: Whoblehwah (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 04:02 PM
Listen, I'm a fan of London, and I wouldn't want him in TNA, because I wouldn't be watching him in TNA...because I don't watch TNA anymore. If he's not in WWE, then I'd want him to go in ROH or work in ROH because that's where I would be more likely to see him and enjoy his work. If he gets a great offer from TNA and takes it, great for him. But I'd rather have him as a part of ROH because as an ROH fan I would get to see him at the shows.
All that is a complete aside from the main point of my column, which is that RING OF HONOR should be making all attempts to sign London right now, and before TNA can do so. It's in ROH's best interests.
Posted By: Ari Berenstein (Registered) on November 08, 2008 at 04:04 PM
I will freely admit I'm probably the biggest Kingston mark walking the earth, so I'm voting for the egyptians and Kingston. I think the key to this match is that Amasis and Ophidian have now wrestled Steenerico and should be able to have and advantage, or at least neutralize each other. I'd pick Kingston over just about anyone, the man can go toe to toe with Necro Butcher, Samoa Joe, Toby Klein, and Chris Hero. I think his enforcer skills tip the balance
Posted By: Last_Rider (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 04:33 PM
London should go to ROH instead of TNA jus t because of the freedom it gives him to go anywhere he wants in Japan and all over the indies. PWG will be calling him soon as will every other indie on the planet. Also who doesn't want to see the REAL Epic Encounter II.
Also, Team ROH goes over easy in this one. The Portal just get spanked by Steen and Generico while Roderick breaks the King in half.
Posted By: Seaneb14 (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 04:42 PM
Steenerico and Roddy are just too much for the Chikara guys to handle. team ROH with the win. I agree that London can do alot more things in ROH,Japan and the indies.
Posted By: D.P. (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 06:59 PM
In the first meeting of the Egyptians and Steenerico the Portal probably had nerves due to being in their first ever ROH match, since then they became the Tag Champs and will likely have more confidence, coupled with the fact that Kingston is teaming with the Portal in the upcoming Cibernetico, it would give them more time to prepare. Also I'm pretty sure Steen is afraid of snakes, they don't get too many in Canada.
Posted By: Blanky (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 07:11 PM
TNA ppv's draw "about the same" as a typical Ring of Honor show? Really?
Seems to me that Bound for Glory had an attendance of 5,500 with 4,500 paid. The last Ring of Honor attendance I saw on Google was "about 250" for a show in Connecticut. Now, is comparing a pay per view to "just another show" for Ring of Honor unfair? Probably. But I wasn't the one that made the initial comparison.
TNA house show numbers might be a better indicator, but those numbers vary from anywhere to 500 people in Lowell, MA to over 2,000 people in Corpus Cristi, TX.
You can deride TNA for their lack of creative direction all you want, but it would appear from the last two weeks of programming that they have a definite long term direction, and they're getting plenty of guys involved in it. It's made for much better programming for the last two Impacts and the pay per view tomorrow looks outstanding.
TNA is finally getting that healthy balance of featuring established guys with younger guys. Sure, Sting, Angle, Nash, Booker, and Steiner are getting television time. But two weeks ago on Impact, the MCMG's were involved in SIX segments. Even if TNA is seen by "only" 1.1 million people every Thursday night...that's roughly 1,095,000 people more than would see Paul London in ANY given week with Ring of Honor and whatever other indy feds he wants to subject himself to.
With TNA, London will have a greatly reduced travel schedule and a lighter workload in general which will only serve to lengthen his career as opposed to driving 300 miles five days a week to wrestle for sellout crowds of 200 people.
There are people who love WWE for the same reason people only watch UFC for MMA and think Madden is the only football video game to ever exist - their brand name has become equivalent with what they represent to the public. There are also people that hate WWE for the same simple reason.
There are people that only watch TNA because they're NOT WWE and it's a way of being slightly counter culture but still getting to see guys like Angle, Styles, and Cage.
Then there are RoHbots, who hate everything mainstream and think that Bryan Danielson vs. Necro Butcher has the chance to be anything other than a *1/2 mess. Obviously not every RoH fan is like this, but there are more than a few.
Me? I'm a fan of diversity in wrestling. Let WWE succeed, let TNA succeed, let RoH succeed. I've been to shows for all three companies, driving a significant distance to see Ring of Honor.
For the money, the workload, and the exposure, though, TNA is the best place for London. You're free to disagree, but you'd be wrong.
Posted By: A fan of London (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 07:39 PM
London wouldn't want to go to TNA unless he's offered big money. TNA may have a bigger audience and platform but they can't utilize talent right. AJ only got out of the lackey role, Joe was failure as champ thanks to TNA's booking.
The X-division is nowhere near when London last wrestled for them. Having your champion from Sabin to Bashir is a big big step down. ROH would treat him well and he can still wrestle for other indies which would allow him to make just as much money as being jobbed on impact.
Team ROH wins again. The ROH tag champs just beat the portal and will probably take them out so it's 3 on 1 on Kingston. Too much for Kingston
Posted By: Guest#4712 (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 08:26 PM
Again, this isn't even close. You're talking about three top-level ROH contenders against an unproven tag team and Eddie Kingston. The King of Diamonds can talk all he wants. Trouble is Roddy will be breaking his back in the process. Team ROH again. With Nigel still waiting to emerge, this battle is over.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 09:11 PM
Free to disagree, but I'm wrong?
I'm sorry, I thought I was talking to an adult, not a child. I apologize for mistaking you for someone with more maturity.
Posted By: Scott B (Guest) on November 08, 2008 at 09:31 PM
I don't agree with "A fan of London" but the dude makes his points clear and concise so there's no need for anyone to be a dick to him.
London absolutely have the same amount of potential matches for ROH and for TNA. Some better, some worse. But who comes through more when it comes to "potential"? In my mind, it's been ROH without a doubt. TNA seem to be turning it around and that's A-OK with me. I don't want them to suck. I want to watch their show with consistency and not constantly want to change the damn channel. I don't know how it'll be with Pearce, but I can watch ROH much more than TNA and have chosen to do so.
The live crowds TNA gets compared to ROH really doesn't compare. If ROH wanted to be on TV, they would have been a long time ago. They've had the opportunities to do so. With Gabe gone, that's probably going to happen a lot sooner than later. But because they don't yet, ROH just simply cannot draw the same group of people that TNA can due to TNA A. Being on TV B. Having superior advertising (Seriously, this is like one of ROH's biggest downfalls. It doesn't work if you only pimp your shows to people who already go to the site in the first place and watch the shows anyways) and C. Don't have the names TNA does.
Does that mean they can't get to that point? No, not at all. Right now, ROH is definitely a niche product, but the possibility for change is there. They've been implimenting more storylines and angles to go along with the great matches they have. They need way better production, but again that's also steadily improving.
TNA vs. ROH is like the turtle and the rabbit. TNA is running fast and is way out in the lead, and there's some starts and stops. But they move forward in such quick bursts, they have time to slow down. ROH is always moving forward, and it might not always be by a lot, but it's steady and never stopping improvement.
Is ROH or TNA better for London? Who knows? Paul London. Totally not us. We don't know what he wants for a schedule, if he's financially secure. For all we know, he could've saved his money like a mother fucker and doesn't need a bigger TNA contract. Working indies could be fine and dandy for him.
And also, he wouldn't work 5 days a week and travel that whole time. Nobody on the indies works 5 times a week unless you're constantly doing overseas tours, and those are hardly indies. If he stays in the US, which he really doesn't have to do, he'd work 3 days a week, tops.
Whatever's best for him, works for me. We've done without him in both TNA and ROH forever. I can't imagine him completely saving either company, so it's more a matter of what he wants and what he thinks will be the best choice for him.
Posted By: All Around Wrestling Fan (Guest) on November 09, 2008 at 02:23 AM
Scott B,
Granted, the end of London fan's posting is smart a$$y, but he raises a lot of good point. And the only response youu make is the old adult/child arguement??? If its not the "WWE is the only promotion that exist" marks then its the "Holier than the creator" ROH wanks. Yet TNA sucks??? Just sad!!!!!
Posted By: PJ (guest) (Guest) on November 09, 2008 at 02:28 AM
What it boils down to is essentially what is more important to London right now; making money or being able to wrestle to his maximum potential. A lot of released WWE superstars these days seem to cite that their final days with the company affected their passion for the business (see: Harris, Chris), so if he wanted to reconnect with that passion, I would have thought the best bet would be to sign for RoH and be able to wrestle a wide variety of opponents without the restrictions of TV. A choice that would possibly be made easier by the money I'm sure he's saved over the past 5 years.
However, given the current economic state of things, I totally wouldn't be surprised to see him sign for TNA for a guaranteed higher earning contract. He might not be wrestling the type of unrestricted matches he wants, but he would be making money and staying on TV and (initially at least) getting a push as well, so basically, it all depends on where London's head is right now. Remember, it's no guarantee he'll go to either anyway, as I'm pretty sure it was noted earlier this year that he had signed onto a modeling agency and so could very well decide to head down a different career path altogether. At this stage, we simply don't know what the future holds!
As for the Chikara vs RoH series, Steenerico/Strong for the win, definitely.
And I'm calling it now...after last night's show, the I Quit Match grand finale of the Aries/Jacobs series is going to see Black throw in the towel for Jimmy even though he doesn't want him to, leading to Jacobs blaming Tyler for the loss and for undermining him, causing the split to happen and a feud between the two of them...and whilst I'd prefer Jacobs to win the feud with Aries, I do look forward to seeing the Black/Jacobs feud happen, if only because it'll keep Black out of the World Title scene for a while longer, and I'm still not convinced he's ready to win the gold just yet.
Posted By: mrjontastic (Guest) on November 09, 2008 at 06:49 AM
A lot of the criticism leveled at TNA is absolutely justified. They do something right for a few weeks and then go to crap for a month, undoing any progress they had made. I'm optimistic about the current direction, but I won't get my hopes up TOO much.
That said, shoddy booking wasn't the downfall of Samoa Joe as TNA champion. Samoa Joe, for all he can do in the ring, is very limited. Every feud, every promo, every interaction from Joe is the same. We get it. He's intense. He doesn't like people. He's going to beat somebody up. They gave Joe a chance with the belt. They put him over Angle, Booker T, and Sting - three established stars that fans still get into, and it just wasn't working. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that tonight, AJ Styles will get his chance.
AJ hasn't been a flunky for months now. I didn't understand that regression of his character, but apparently TNA booking realized they were doing something awful and have been working to restore him to Phenomenal-ity.
I agree that if you take 250 RoH fans vs. 250 Impact Zone TNA fans, there is no comparison. The people in the Impact Zone are casual fans, wandering in from doing something else, and don't get all that wound up for TNA. Even TNA's fans from the Asylum were better. Heel Section, anybody? RoH's fans at live shows, though, are loud and they're constant. Even for crappy matches, I was amazed at how into them people were when I went.
If RoH is pressing for a television deal, it's hard for me to envision it happening on a national level right now. TNA landed a 3pm on Friday AFTERNOON spot on Fox Sports, and that was only coming off of a somewhat successful run of weekly pay per views to show that there was some sort of fan base there that was even willing to PAY to watch the product. Ring of Honor can only point to relatively small crowds and DVD sales. I'd imagine they could land a regional television deal in the Northeast and build from there. Then again, maybe that's what they need to test the waters.
People are down on the X Division because right now they don't have guys like AJ, Daniels, Low Ki, Lynn, and Red. In fairness, though, they've been trying to find guys to elevate to that level with Bashir, Petey, Creed, Lethal, and Dutt. Kazarian probably would have been that guy had he not gotten hurt. London could DEFINITELY be the guy to "re-establish" the X Division title.
Again, this is all based on opinion. Personally, I think London would be better off in TNA financially and physically. Where ever he lands, I wish him well.
Posted By: A fan of London (Guest) on November 09, 2008 at 09:49 AM
On the Paul London subject, I am happy with wherever he goes. He made me a fan of indy wrestling back when I saw him on the weekly TNA PPV's. Be it TNA or RoH he will be somebody I will pay money to see.
For CHIKARA vs RoH, I will actually go with CHIKARA. Yes, Steenerico and Roddy are more established, but never forget, Kingston is the top student in CHIKARA and he does not want to let his home promotion down, the guy is crazy enough as it is and I think he would defend CHIKARA to the death. Throw in two of the top rookies on the indy circut and I think they can just pull it off.
Posted By: Curtis (Guest) on November 10, 2008 at 02:48 PM
Man this is a close one Ari. I do like Strong and Steenerico together as I have seen them do stuff in PWG together I am sure and they gel really well.
Though The Osirian Portal is a well oiled machine, the crazy one is Eddie. He could be a single man army when he wants to be but I don't see him doing well with a team outside of BLKOUT.
If you had put in BLKOUT I would have hands down picked that team but I have to side with ROH on this one man.
Good stuff as always. Keep it up man.
Posted By: spawnsyxx9 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:01 AM
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