Ask 411 Wrestling 11.12.08: Out of Funny Subtitles Edition
Posted by Chris Lansdell on 11.12.2008
Why WWE drop the juniors, born midcarders, Indy guys who might make it, why Sheik hates Blair, the first appearance of Big Goldy, and more!
Greetings, humanity! Welcome back to Ask 411 Wrestling with me, Chris Lansdell. Are we all having a good week? I'm thoroughly rested after a day off (love those Canadian holidays) and completely ready to talk wrestling trivia. This week's shout-outs go to Ramon Aranda, coffee and inspirational notes on Facebook. Our musical accompaniment is Money for Nothing by Dire Straits. And this is a
BANNER!
Banner compliments of Benjamin Colon. See more of his work at soulexodus.com.
Cleaning Up
Regarding wrestlers in MMA: I have very little doubt that the people ridiculing my choices are bigger MMA fans than wrestling fans. I am the opposite, I've hardly seen any MMA. However, Low-Ki is a legit hard striker who has a ground game. Punk has a legit jiu-jitsu background. Danielson is a superb mat wrestler and also strikes hard. People like Benjamin and Haas are good on the mat but they don't have the extra dimension the others have. Would they be champions in MMA? Doubtful, especially in UFC. But they wouldn't embarrass themselves like, say, Triple H would.
Regarding Owen staying with WWE after Montreal: Vince did tell Bret he'd sue him (Bret) if he tried to talk Owen into leaving, but that doesn't say anything about Owen deciding what to do on his own.
Regarding what I should read: I've read the Riftwar Saga, or parts of it, and I may have to re-read it. I'd love to catch up with the Star Wars books, the last one I read was where Anakin died, but I can't be bothered looking up the chronology. Research on the internet is not so much fun after writing this column...
In Soviet Russia, 411 Ask You!
To the person who thinks the questions are too ambiguous: that's the point. Straight trivia questions have been killed by Google and the internet in general, so if I want any chance at stumping you guys I have to go with multi-layered ambiguous clues that would be almost impossible to google.
Last week's answer was, in fact, Maven. He fought HHH on Heat in a non-title match that was actually very good as HHH bumped his ass off for the youngster. He eliminated Undertaker from the Royal Rumble (certainly shocking, he was a nobody at the time), then got the tar beaten out of him (including getting his head rammed through a popcorn machine) without going over the top and being eliminated. As a result he got a title shot on Raw two weeks later, which he won in the Rumble. He also had a title shot against HHH as a result of the Team Orton victory at Survivor Series.
Another Who Am I question this week:
I've appeared on WCW and WWE programming. I'm a former champion in WWE who was involved with an obnoxious heel character for most of my run, but in WCW I was mostly comedy relief. I was involved in a group in WCW with several others that would go on to compete and appear in WWE, and one who would appear in TNA. I've also performed extensively in Japan under a typical Japanese wrestling name. Who am I?
Oh I got you guys this week. Right, ready for some questions? Then Let's Get DANGEROUS~!
Question Time!
Matthew is looking for the identity of a guy...
Who was that guy in a tank top in the front row of EVERY SINGLE WWF pay-per-view in the early and mid 90's? Did he like win the lottery or something? (that's what I'd do if I won the lottery)
Wow. I simply don't know. I ran through the list of known superfans (Hulk Hogan guy, Tie Dye Guy, Green Lantern Fan, Hat Guy, Sign Guy) but none of them fit this description. My DVD collection is a little thin on 90s PPVs and I do not own a working VCR (does anyone?). Anybody?
Chris, whose parents obviously have great taste in names, wants to know about stiffers. It's the 21st century, we don't judge.
In my opinion, you're doing very well taking over the reigns for this column.
1. Are there any stiffers left in the WWE today? if so, who's the most reckless and who's at the top of the ladder?
*checks news section for releases* OK, there are a couple still around. Hardcore Holly is still on the roster, as are JBL, Finlay and Regal. Holly and Regal were the guys who were normally used to punish people who got ahead of themselves, but obviously with Holly being in rehab that's not happening right now. None of these guys really qualifies as reckless, I presume you mean unintentionally stiff and reckless? I've heard that Mike Knox was sent back to developmental partly because he needed to work on pulling his shots, which is why he worked with Finlay as soon as he came back up, and there hasn't been any recent news regarding other careless talent.
2. I heard Vinnie Mac has beef with Vader. IDK why he would though, cause the only complaint about the guy i know of is that he stiffs and he doesn't wash his wrestling gear. why would he have beef with VKM?
Vader fell. At the end of October 2005, Coach announced that Golddust and Vader would be in his corner the next night at Taboo Tuesday. After performing a beatdown on Batista, the three heels made a quick retreat...at which point Vader slipped on the mats at ringside and fell on his amply-cushioned rump. He swore rather loudly and had to be helped up by Coach, Golddust and a forklift, drawing much laughter from the live crowd. After taking a spinebuster from Batista (subbing for Austin) at Taboo Tuesday, Vader has not been contacted by Vince since. Monster heels being helped up by comedy acts and laughed at by fans don't really work.
3. I noticed that those who filled as colour commentator in the WWE, whether it was either Jerry Lawler, Paul E., or Tazz! they were all Heel at a point in time. and i found it entertaining that they sided with the bad guy more than be neutral. why do they have to be neutral and cant sometimes side with the villain?
All the best colour commentators have been heels for the majority of their careers. I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who DIDN'T prefer the heel colour/face PBP dynamic, but like many other things it's been stopped to satisfy Vince's desire to make the product more realistic. Real people don't always side with the bad guy, so the announcers cannot always side with the bad guy.
Dan is going to rile up the Comments section.
Are there any plans for Christopher Daniels to go back to his Fallen Angel gimmick? So far as Curry Man he's been over with the crowd but booked to lose most times he wrestles. Daniels has the talent to be more than a side show and I think it's a shame that he gets pushed nowhere. He was a staple of the X division and with the right booking and with his old gimmick he and other could make the X Division mean something again.
Before I saw the push that Eric Young is getting without his mask, I would have said no. Now I'm pretty sure it's coming soon. TNA seems to be undergoing a rather serious shift in tone, with all the cartoony stuff being dumped in favour of the Main Event Mafia story. Eric has already changed, we haven't seen Shark Boy and the return of Daniels would seem to be the best bet. Whether they unmask him on-screen or bring him back without mention of Curry Man (the announcers haven't mentioned Super Eric) remains to be seen. The only stumbling block I see is that the Young Lions have Young, Creed, Lethal and Petey as X-Division guys, and I think Daniels is above them. Perhaps they tag him up with someone (NOT AJ again, as awesome as they were AJ needs to stay in the main event) and let them go after the Guns?
Todd is questioning the greatest moment in the history of shoot interviews:
What caused Iron Sheik's long-standing beef with B Brian Blair?
In the event that there are still some people who don't know where this beef is mentioned, I present to you the greatest shoot interview segment ever:
That never gets old. Ever. Anyway, the reason for old Sheiky Baby's tirade is twofold. First, and most important, Sheik saw Blair as a Hogan stooge and had no time for him. As you may be able to surmise from his comments about B Brian Blair's partner Jim Brunzell, who trained under Verne Gagne with Sheik in Minnesota, Sheik resPACK the wrestler who come up through the ranks the old (country) way: hard training, paying dues and hard work. He perceived Blair as only being in WWF because of Hogan, who himself only got where he was because of his physique and charisma. The second issue, which may well have a lot to do with the first, is Sheik's perception of Blair's sexual preferences, warranted or not. This is visible throughout the video above. Of course, there are some who believe that all these Sheik rants are a work and that he does it to stay relevant. This being the Internet, you can find someone who will believe anything.
Our friend jack the ripper is back with three questions:
1. Are some wrestlers made at to be mid carders for life? I look at guys like Mr. Perfect, Razor Ramon, Rick Rude and Roddy Piper. I know they're old wrestlers but it seems in WWE they all held IC belts and in WCW the U.S. Title but never the World Titles.
Excellent question, although it bears pointing out that Rude was a world champion in WCW at one point. All the guys you mentioned, with the exception of Razor Ramon, had the tremendous misfortune of being very talented, very over guys in the Hogan era. If you weren't a monster or Hogan for the vast majority of that time, you weren't getting near the belt. You can add Ted DiBiase and possibly Jake the Snake Roberts to that list as well, although Ted was a tag champ and had some title shots, as did Mr Perfect. Razor was just getting pushed to the world title when he left with Nash for WCW. He did have a shot against Bret Hart before leaving, but once in WCW he was way down the pecking order. I don't believe any of these guys were made to be midcarders, but they were forced there due to circumstances, not for want of ability. The are some guys who DO fit that mould however. A perfect example is Dean Malenko – buckets of talent, but not enough charisma or size to ever go higher than the middle of the card.
2.Why does TNA get so much heat for signing old WWE stars? Seems like some become better utilized. I think of guys like Raven, Rhino and Christian who all were former TNA Champs yet in WWE none came close.
TNA gets heat not for signing former WWE guys, but for constantly putting them over the established, popular "home-grown" talent like Samoa Joe, AJ Styles and company. Bringing in people with name value is actually a great idea since people might tune in to see this guy they enjoyed in WWE, but when that guy wins the title almost immediately (especially if they were never on that level in WWE) and without fail, it makes TNA look second-rate. Neither Rhyno nor Raven was ever near the world belt in WWE, yet they won them very soon after coming to TNA. Christian was on the cusp of greatness, and Angle was already there, so they get passes. Regardless of what the IWC think of their skills (and frankly, I never bought Raven or Rhyno as champ material), the majority of wrestling fans only see them the way that Vince portrayed them.
>3.What's up with John Morrison's push? The dude is awesome and while I like him tagging with Miz I think he should be getting in the main event or at least upper U.S. title level. Any reason why or shall I use the common phrase "Who did he piss off?"
It's more like what did he piss out. Morrison's push died with the Signature Pharmacy scandal when he lost his ECW title to CM Punk (ALL HAIL!) before being suspended. Since coming back he has remained over and his team with Miz is one of the best things on WWE TV right now, so breaking it up would serve no real purpose.
Just Adam tries to do what many others have managed to do, that is stump me.
Let's see if i can stump you here, cuz i sure as hell am...
When exactly did the Big Gold Belt make its début? I know Flair was the first to hold the belt, but was it during his first or second reign? Was it at the beginning of one of those reigns, a la the Spinner Belt for Cena? Was its début at any particular pay per view or was it a more out of the blue switch from the Gold Dome to Big Goldy?
Big Goldy débuted February 22, 1986. Ric Flair kayfabe introduced it to demonstrate his style and flamboyance, but in reality it was introduced because the NWA felt the dome-globe belt was old hat. According to officially recognised title reigns that would put it in Flair's fourth, but if you include the Midnight Rider, Jack Veneno, Victor Jovica and Carlos Colon it's more like his eighth.
Josh has a couple of questions:
1. Are there or has there even been wrestling groupies? I've never heard of any, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were.
My goodness yes. The old territories were FILLED with mat hags. I remember talking to Sailor White (former Moondog) a few years ago and he told me of one woman in particular who kept a record of each one she slept with in a notebook. According to him, his name was between Leo Burke and Dr D. The sluts looking to bang wrestlers phenomenon has cooled a bit but there are still groupies, mainly for indie feds, who will follow their favourite promotion everywhere. At the RoH show in Toronto I met people who had been to every show east of Dayton in the past 5 years, and quite a few west of that as well. Oh, to have that sort of time and money...
2. What is CM Punk's thing with Pepsi?
Umm...he really, really likes it? It could be worse, one of my predecessors on this column is addicted to Mountain Dew. Basically he got the tattoo as a joke because a lot of his buddies were getting beer tattoos, and of course Punk does not drink. If you ask him, he'll tell you "I like Pepsi." If he's not in a bad mood.
411mania's own Ty Huston is asking about Billy's long-lost brother:
Hey Lansdell, keep up the good work with Ask411. It is definitely a workload. Anyway, here's my questions:
Just got done watching Halloween Havoc '92 on WWE 24/7, and I got a pretty big laugh out of the opening match. It featured Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton and Michael "P.S." Hayes against Tom Zenk, Shane Douglas and Johnny Gunn. What the hell happened to Johnny Gunn? The guy had a good look but sucked in the ring, and even though he was billed from Philadelphia (where the PPV was taking place), he got booed to all hell when he pinned Hayes with the Thesz Press. Well, that's what Jim Ross called it. It looked more like Gunn was dry humping him into submission. In case anyone else wants to catch the show, this is also the infamous Havoc where Sting fought Jake "The Snake" Roberts in the "Spin The Wheel, Make The Deal" match. It amuses me that it turned out to be the single worst gimmick match on the wheel, even beating out the "Prince of Darkness Match," which we know is simply a blindfold match.
Where do you guys come UP with this stuff? I actually know the answer to this without looking it up. Zenk and Gunn were a regular tag team in WCW before he went to ECW and won the ECW tag titles with Tommy Dreamer. You might have seen more of him in WWF as Salvatore Sincere and then Tom Brandi, which were probably his best-known gimmicks. Brandi bought the Patriot gimmick from Del Wilkes and as recently as March was using it on the US Indy scene. I'd rather not think about him dry humping Hayes, and I mean that...sincerely.
Garyhas three questions, none of which pertain to the airspeed velocity of a swallow. More's the pity.
I have 3 questions. One is what is with McMahon's thing about dropping the "Jr." off the names? Guys like Ted DiBiase, Chavo Guerrero and Rey Mysterio all had "Jr." at the end of their names before they debuted for WWE and but Vince always drops them .Does he think it makes the guys wusses or something?
The "junior" does carry with it a connotation of youth an inexperience, of being second-rate and unoriginal. Of course Roy Jones Jr and countless others would beg to differ, but in this case the guys are all following their ancestors into the business. You'll notice that when Chavo's father had his run a couple of years ago, they called him Chavo Sr instead of calling his son Chavo Jr. Just another case of Vince thinking that wrestling fans, sorry the WWE Universe is too dumb to judge someone on anything other than first impressions.
Second, I've heard from a lot of my friends who's been to TNA shows and they all say the same thing, "Alex Shelley is a prick. One I talked to said he's TNA's version of Kenny Dykstra backstage. Ouch. What have you heard about his rep?
I have not heard that, but then I haven't been to a TNA show. I don't see how someone who went to a TNA show would know what Alex is like backstage. Shelley and Sabin had been in the doghouse with TNA for a while because of their attitude, but seem to be out of that now. Has anyone met Alex and can confirm or deny this?
And the other has to do with The Undertaker. Now we all know how Vince likes to keep him in the kayfabe mode out of the ring (like at the HOF ceremonies and how he's not allowed to go to them or other out of the ring events to ruin his gimmick) so I was curious to know how you think they're gonna pull it off when he gets inducted in the HOF and he has to do his speech? Will he be "normal? "I'm curious to see how they do it.
It all depends on when he gets inducted. If they wait until he's retired, he'll be out of character I'd presume. If they do it while he's still active, like before Mania this year, then it could be tricky. Frankly I don't think anyone else will be inducted while active, that honour was given to Ric Flair and nobody else today deserves it, although Taker and Michaels come closest. If I'm wrong (it has happened), I still can't see him accepting the honour in full black garb with the spooky voice. They could solve the whole thing by making him BikerTaker again, but I'm not that lucky.
As an aside, it's not Vince who mandates that Taker maintain kayfabe. They both agree it's in the best interests of what has become the most enduring character in wrestling.
Rex wants to know about the US Indy hierarchy:
I'm not in the US and we don't get anything here but WWE and TNA. I know about some of the others from reading this site, mostly Dunn's reviews and sometimes yours, you need to do more! Anyway, is Ring of Honor any good? Aside from them, who's big? Do indy guys work for lots of promotions? Lastly, what indy guys would be good in WWE?
Ring of Honor is very good if you like wrestling. If you like sports entertainment, it's not good. They recently changed bookers (as I'm sure you know if you read the site) so it remains to be seen what will happen with the company from here on in. Other big indy feds are CHIKARA, PWG, SHIMMER and I suppose IWA-MS. Recently RoH has signed some of its top performers to contracts as opposed to paying per appearance, but they generally only prevent talent from performing for TNA or WWE. Most of the top names appear for the three big indies (RoH, PWG and CHIKARA).
There are very few indy guys that I can see succeeding in WWE. Nigel McGuinness, Claudio Castagnoli, Brodie Lee, Chris Hero and possibly Tyler Black and Kenny Omega are at the top of that list. Many indy fans will now scream at me for omitting Bryan Danielson, Austin Aries, the Briscoes and the like, but their style and look will not fit with Vince's preferences.
Another Chris wants to talk about the venue change for Mania VII. I swear none of these questions are coming from me.
It is widely accepted in the IWC that the then-WWF moved Wrestlemania VII from Memorial Coliseum to the smaller Sports Arena because of low ticket sales and not for fear of a sniper attack as was reported at the time. Do you think this was the case? If I remember correctly, Wrestlemania VII had a larger PPV audience than any other Wrestlemania up till that point, including 'Mania III. It seems unlikely that such a buzz wouldn't translate to ticket sales. But even assuming that the WWF was unable to sell out the Coliseum, would it really be worth it to change locations? They had already sold 40-50,000 tickets when the change was made, which far exceeds the capacity of the Sports Arena, meaning they had to turn away and refund tens of thousands of fans. They also had to do away with all ads for the Coliseum and re-advertise for the Arena. Seems like a lot of time, money and expense just to avoid a few empty seats, no?
The Coliseum holds between 97 and 100 THOUSAND for wrestling. Had they managed to fill the stadium they would have shattered all sorts of records. The attendance at the Arena was 16,158 which was a sell-out. You rightly pointed out that switching venues would have been expensive, but running WrestleMania in an arena that was less than half full would have been both expensive (costs more to rent and run the Coliseum) and disastrous from a marketing standpoint. If they had only sold 85,000 they might have sucked it up and papered a few, but as it stood they really had no choice. IF the numbers are correct.
With that said, I have no reason to doubt the official story of a security threat. The USA has produced some extremely zealous patriots, moreso than most countries, and they are rarely more zealous than when they are confronted with one of their own who supports the evil foreigners. Slaughter was playing an Iraqi sympathiser at this point and has confirmed on numerous occasions (and not always when talking about Mania VII) that he was getting death threats. It's a lot harder to carry out these threats in an indoor arena. Both stories are plausible, and I personally believe it's a combination of both that lead to the change.
Geoff has an AWESOME question:
I was wandering through the wrestlecrap site the other day, and it got me thinking about the world of jobbers. I know jobbers have fallen out of fashion since the early 90's, but before then was there ever a jobber who successfully made their way up to the main event. I know the WWF attempted to break a few jobbers into the midcard, particularly Steve "the Brooklyn Brawler" Lombardi and Terry "the Red Rooster" Taylor, but did anyone successfully go from jobber to main event without changing companies or radically changing gimmicks? (I'm thinking the Hardy Boys with that one).
It's a tough one to answer because jobbers didn't tend to have gimmicks when they still existed, making it hard to meet your restriction. Take John Cena, who débuted against Kurt Angle as a vanilla guy and only got a gimmick after dressing as Vanilla Ice for Halloween. The Hardy Boyz didn't have a gimmick when they first started as jobbers, but Jeff at least has kept the same "emo grunge rocker" gimmick throughout, despite changing companies. The changing of gimmicks is virtually essential if you want to push a former jobber, because you have to reinvent the person in the eyes of the fans. Not many wrestling fans today will remember that JBL was Justin "Hawk" Bradshaw, for example. The closest I can get is Sean Waltman's initial WWF run, when he got a title shot against Bret Hart as the 1-2-3 Kid.
The Way I C It…
Ben is looking for some fantasy booking:
I have seen postings already that have stated the obvious. WWE needing to sign Karen Angle. My question is does the potential for this "angle-wise" seem as huge to you as it does to me? I mean, imagine a stalking or "sexual assault" angle practically daring Kurt to respond?
No, I can't see it at all. Karen Angle would bring nothing to the WWE product. She hasn't wrestled, she's not that good in interview segments, and there is no way Vince will want to bring in anyone who will cause fans to think of Kurt. In the days of competition this would have been a gritty move that could have toed the work-shoot line, but today's Vince is more interested in entertainment and less in burying other companies. I hope they don't try and sign Karen.
Well boys and girls, that's the column this week. This is the part where I tell you that Bayani, someone pretending to be Small and the Fact or Fiction guys are in tomorrow. Stay Cool, Rock Hard.
Raven did not win the belt in TNA very soon after joining...it was actually like 2 years later.
Posted By: Nick (Guest) on November 11, 2008 at 11:41 PM
why does my question never get answered. oh and great column
Posted By: Antman (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:21 AM
I went to a live event in texas and afterwards, we all saw the wrestlers leaving in cars. the first one we saw was roxxi and we decided to get behind them for a better look and we accidentally cut shelley off. he pulled up beside us blaring his horn and shooting us the finger. i think he might be a prick, even tho it was our fault. Sabin didnt even look at us. we felt bad cuz we pissed off the murder city machine guns. great experience tho.
Posted By: rohmark (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:26 AM
I nominate Scott "Super Dragon" Norton as the answer for the question.
Posted By: Edward (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:30 AM
It's not that i don't believe you, because i do. I'm just curious as to where you actually found that bit of info on Big Goldy.
Posted By: Just Adam (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Is it Mike Awesome??
Hardcore Champ - WWE
Obnoxious Heel - Ecw
That Seventies Guy - Comic Relief ECW
THE GLADIATOR! - Japan
Whats my prize
Posted By: The Jasten (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:12 AM
Oh yea...
Team Canada, and he was in TNA for a brief period.
I should write this column.
Posted By: The Jasten (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:15 AM
Mike Awesome is the answer..at first I thought it was Saturn, but Eddie Gurrero didn't fit the "obnoxious" heel just right.
Posted By: ArkansasDudeman (Registered) on November 12, 2008 at 01:31 AM
I think the answer is Juvi!! Juvi Juice bro's!!!
Posted By: Al Hammer (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:44 AM
Mike Awesome does seem to almost fit, but the line "a former champion in WWE who was involved with an obnoxious heel character for most of my run" doesn't really seem to match him. I can't really come up with a better answer, as anyone I think of that fits some of the criteria doesn't match all of it. Honky Tonk Man, Jimmy Valiant, Shannon Moore, or members of Three Count, Yung Dragons, the Flock, or the Dungeon of Doom all come to mind, but none quite fit the bill.
Posted By: Jeff (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:46 AM
Who Am I: Johnny the Bull
Hardcore Champ in WWE
Obnoxious Heel in WWE with FBI
Comedy Relief in WCW as a Mamaluke
In Natural Born Thrillers in WCW, most of who went on to WWE, while MIke Sanders went on to TNA
Typical Japanese name - Redrum or Rellik or Crimson Blood
Posted By: Mark (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:47 AM
To answer your question about the WWE super fan, his name is Vladimir and yes he did seem to appear at practically every major WWE event.
I even got the chance to meet him once at Wrestlemania 2000 in Anaheim. Nice guy by the way,
Posted By: Reid (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:50 AM
My favorite fan is Hulk Hogan guy. Watch HBK vs S Benjamin. When HBK hits that sick ass S/C/M, Hogan guy's reaction is the BEST SHIT EVER!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkUR3EdE8Wc
Posted By: NickNitro (Registered) on November 12, 2008 at 01:52 AM
is it virgil?
Posted By: joe blow (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:54 AM
LOL yeah there are "rats" that just come to the shows for just the boys. Shelly was great when we booked him. He wasn't an ass at all to any of the fans during or after the show. ACW-NWA-Wisconsin and the old MAW(of the Milwaukee area) brought you Ken Kennedy, CM Punk & Hornswoggle. I think Silas Young and Colt Cabbana deserve a chance as well as Skullkrusher.
Posted By: Guest#9445 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:58 AM
WRESTLING GROUPIES. I work in Camden, NJ and a lady i work with, who is about 54 years old was a wrestling groupie. Her and 3 friends always followed, stayed, and slept with wrestlers. She was one of Superstar Billy Grahams main squeezes. Has some of the best stories you'll ever hear.
Being inside a food store at a gas station while some big dude grabber her ass twice, and said both the Wild Samoans gripped the guy up outside and told him they'd chop his 'little baby head clean off' if the dude didnt apologize. which of course he did.
and some not so good ones, like Ric Flair getting drunk and falling in his hotel room, knocking on her door naked and asked to get bandaged up. (She noted that Flair was hung like a horse. like HUGE.) More info then most of us wanna know, but its still funny.
Funny ones like driving with Hulk Hogan and smoking weed in the car with him "while he was sayin "Fuck McMahon, i want that belt right now. 2nite."
If you ever get a chance to talk to a former wrestling groupie, then do it. They have the best wrestling stories you'll ever hear.
Posted By: NickNitro (Registered) on November 12, 2008 at 02:02 AM
Johnny the Bull looks to me like the best answer so far. Did anyone ever notice that Rellik is Killer spelled backwards?
Posted By: Jeff (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 02:05 AM
So I'm currently reading through the Star Wars: New Jedi Order books and...Anakin dies?
A spoiler tag would have been nice!
Posted By: StereotypeA (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 02:33 AM
:::Did anyone ever notice that Rellik is Killer spelled backwards?
OH MY GOD BACKSLANG IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW VERY CLEVER
Posted By: Guest#3636 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 03:00 AM
Someone from Raven's Flock? I don't know enough about Japan or what people were renamed over there but most everyone who came into WWE from WCW held at least the Hardcore title for a cup of coffee.
Posted By: y2jdingo (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 03:03 AM
For some reason I thought of Kevin Nash as an answer to the question....
Posted By: AH (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 04:48 AM
I am Shane Helms?
Posted By: ftw924 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 05:11 AM
maybe Billy Kidman
Posted By: ftw924 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 05:13 AM
is it Mr Perfect Curt Hennig?
Posted By: jacish23 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 05:56 AM
Re Taker staying out of public eyc, IIRC he was at Brock's UFC debut and was shown on the screen as the Undertaker ... as Was stone Cold .. not sure if they will be back for the Natural fight ...
Posted By: Northants Grecian (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 06:30 AM
"Karen Angle would bring nothing to the WWE product. She hasn't wrestled, she's not that good in interview segments."
How is that different then any of the other Divas? At least she has name value already. More so then the GoDaddy girl ever had. She could make a great Scary Sherry type escort for someone as well.
Posted By: Champ (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 07:45 AM
Years ago I co-wrote a story for a wrestling fanzine on the switching of venues for WMVII. From the info I received, the change of venue was purely a financial decision. The story of security concerns was at best a face-saver. The WWF had sold nowhere close to 50,000 tickets when the decision was made to go with the Sports Arena. In fact, they'd sold just about the capacity for the Arena (around 17,000). When it was announced that Wrestlemania 7 was to be at the Coliseum (at WM6), Vince was confident that he'd have signed Ric Flair from the NWA (as they were calling themselves) by then and could headline every fan's dream match - Hogan vs Flair. Of course, he was out by a year.
Posted By: APinOz (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 07:49 AM
for all other fans in the uk if your interested in the indies check out the fight network available on sky i think they at least still show ring of honour at times. Also A merchandise is a company run by some british wrestlers it sells ROH, FIP and Shimmer dvds plus some British wrestling dvds
Posted By: britishfan (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 08:03 AM
I watched that Royal Rumble with Maven eliminating the Undertaker last night, coincidentally. You're wrong though. Taker got back in, tossed Maven through the ropes, chair shot, then he threw him back in again and actually tossed him over the top before leading him up to the popcorn machine.
Vader (96) would tell you that elimination doesn't count, but Giant Gonzalez (93), Booker T (07) and Kurt Angle (05) would all say differently.
Posted By: Hawkeye (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 08:22 AM
My guess is Virgil.
Posted By: Guest#6456 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 08:53 AM
The superfan's name is Vladimir. I still see him at ROH events in NYC. WWF magazine even ran a story on him back in the day.
Posted By: Ben (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:13 AM
Chavo's father was not referred to as Chavo Sr. but Chavo Classic!
Posted By: Correction (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:28 AM
Ever since the Fight Network bought TWC it's been really hard to get hold of decent US Indies in the UK. You used to be able to see loads of US indies stuff, Shoot interviews, Joshi and other cool stuff. Now 90% of their programming is two scary bald cockneys talking about 3rd rate MMA.
Posted By: BlueMeanieUK (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:30 AM
Johnny the Bull Stamboli
Posted By: Toddo (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:38 AM
"Are some wrestlers made at to be mid carders for life? I look at guys like Mr. Perfect, Razor Ramon, Rick Rude and Roddy Piper."
That's weird; just last night I was making a mental Top Ten list of the greatest mid-carders ever (and by "ever" I mean since 1985, or the year 0 AM, or "After 'Mania").
So far my list includes Curt Hennig, Owen Hart, Jake Roberts, Ted DiBiase, Goldustin Rhodes and Razcott Halmon. Ricky Steamboat would be as shoe-in for this list if he hadn't had that little program with Flair in '89 that a couple people might remember.
Anybody want to add to the list?
P.S. - I don't consider people who had multiple main event programs, such as Roddy Piper, to be mid-card. He was at the top of the food chain, under Hogan, even if he didn't have the gold to prove it.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:41 AM
Oh, and the bloke in the tank top is called Vladimir - they did an article about him in the WWF magazine way back when
Posted By: Groinman (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:44 AM
CM Punk has said in interviews his Pepsi tattoo is based off of a Coca Cola tattoo one of the original members of Minor Threat (hardcore band that coined the term Straight Edge) had. In interviews with the band when asked about it, he would say "I like coke." Hence Punk's go-to response "I like pepsi"
Posted By: Shaun (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Lansdell, you're in Toronto? I was at the ROH event at Ted Reeve. That main event tag team match was hard core. I was right there to pat the guy on the back who back flipped off the barracade onto the guy covered in so many chairs. ROH was the best $12 entertainment value ever. Do they go that hard every night?
Oh, and the answer to the question is Justin, shit I can't remember that guys last name. Oh yea, Incredible.
Posted By: Dawson (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Benoit?
Chanp-Heavyweight
Heel-JBL or HHH
comic relief in wcw
I think Malenko was in TNA
Beniot wrestled in Japan under the name The Pegasus Kid
Posted By: Raidersfan (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 10:37 AM
I saw Alex Shelley at an Indy show in Ontario and though I didn't approach him personally he was rather close and he was pretty cool with the fans that did talk to him. Sabin was with him and would have to say the same for him. Though this was before the Guns gimmick.
Posted By: Blasphemous (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Check out Brian Blair's page on wikipedia. Vandalize much?
Posted By: HBK's Smile (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 10:59 AM
I know the guy you're talking about, he has glasses and wore a tank top!
Chris watch wrestlemania X he is wearing a tuxedo top he is in the first row...
Posted By: Guest#0891 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:02 AM
CM Punk doesn't have any legit jiu jitsu training. Its like when the commentators comment on his "martial arts" strikes. Its just him kicking a dude, doesn't require much martial arts training to do.
Posted By: Chico (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:13 AM
oh and the guy with the tank top and glasses is on Halloween Havoc 92 as well...
Posted By: Guest#2435 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:15 AM
I met Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin once at the Hard Rock Hotel in Orlando. They both seemed really cool and down to Earth. They were with a couple of the TNA girls, who were pretty much huge bitches.
Posted By: Awesomeness (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Terry Taylor was definitely not a jobber.
Posted By: Anotherguy (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Bob Backlund
Posted By: Chi town Blue (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Eddie Guerrero. He was involved with an obnoxious heel character (Vickie Guerrero) for most of his run as he was married to her.
Posted By: Guest#1710 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM
"Who was that guy in a tank top in the front row of EVERY SINGLE WWF pay-per-view in the early and mid 90's? Did he like win the lottery or something? (that's what I'd do if I won the lottery)"
C'mon Chris, that's VLADIMIR. He was at basically every event from like '88-'97
Posted By: Guest#6613 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:14 PM
It's Mike Awesome, Elix Skipper is the giveaway with the TNA line.
Posted By: Brett (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM
I guess Johnny Stamboli is right, although I would have guessed Bill DeMott.
The fact that it said "comedy relief" instead of "comic relief" kinda threw me off, though it might mean nothing... He was Hugh Morrus and General Hugh G. Rection in WCW, both of which would classify as comedy. As General Rection, he was involved with the Misfits In Action, which included Rey Mysterio (unmasked at the time) and Booker T (as G.I. Bro), both of whom went to WWE, and also with Lash LeRoux (Corporal Cajun), who had a short-lived stint in TNA. He also wrestled in Japan as Crash the Terminator. However, I have no record of him ever winning WWE gold, but I'm guessing as just about everyone had a cup of coffee with the Hardcore Title back in the time, he might have had one of those ridiculously short reigns.
So it's probably not him , but still, I wanted to get my theory out there.
Posted By: Guest#0224 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 12:39 PM
While not a true jobber in the A.W.A. Leon " the Baby Bull" white jumped to Japan and became Big Van Vader.. The single most awesome heel ever..Of course thats before MR.Ego kicked out of the Vader bomb and ruined the gimmick
Posted By: rorschach77 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:16 PM
I've met Alex Shelley at a Detroit Show. He's a Grade-A Ass. He's got a load of talent, but he's an arrogant shit. Sabin on the other hand, nice guy.
Posted By: peep (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:17 PM
With regards to the "Who Am I", the answer isn't Virgil/ Vincent is it? I don't know if he ever had a championship run or wrestled in Japan, but the rest fits. I dunno, just thought I'd throw that one out there.
Posted By: drunk_n_bewildered (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:29 PM
Where exactly is it stated that CM Punk has any Jiu-Jitsu training whatsoever? Besides on the WWE site which we all know is kayfabe BS. I've watched 3 different shoots (by himself, with Joe, nd with Colt) and he never once mentions being trained in BJJ. You would think he would mention it if he had a legit BJJ background wouldn't you?
Posted By: WholeFnMachine (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:39 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention, I've talked to Alex Shelley several times, he's never been anything but cool to me.
And yeah, Valdimir, I thought everyone knew him.
Posted By: WholeFnMachine (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:41 PM
My guess is Lance Storm.
I love the Saskatchewan Hardcore International Title (S.H.I.T) was the bomb! LOL
Posted By: ermacpd (Registered) on November 12, 2008 at 01:44 PM
I might be wrong, but I want to try and guess John "Earthquake" Tenta.
*He was in both WWE & WCW.
*Former Tag Team Champ & had Jimmy Hart as his manager(obnoxious heel character).
*Was part of Dungeon of Doom which also included such people link Meng, Barbarian, Kamala & The Giant(all was in WWE) And Luger(was in WWE and appeared in TNA)
*Was in Japan as a sumo wrestler with a typical name "Kototenzan" before joining All-Japan Pro Wrestling.
Posted By: whitewolf44621 (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:47 PM
woow at the guy that said it was Benoit.
just wow.
umm on second thought it just might be Johnny the Bull.
But I'll stick with Mike Awesome.
Posted By: The Jasten (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 01:48 PM
I think the who is it is Mike Rotunda, also known as IRS or Michael Wallstreet
Posted By: Billy (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 02:01 PM
For some reason I keep thinking of Scott Hall as the trivia answer ...
Posted By: =EF= (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 02:01 PM
I was at a JAPW show a few months ago when The Machine Guns were the special attraction. During intermission Sabin and Shelley were taking pictures and signing autographs during the intermission. The line was too long that I did not get up to the front before intermission time had expired. Shelley walked right by the remaining people on line and rushed backstage without a word. Sabin, however, gave us all handshakes and told us to wait after the show if were wanted autographs. That's not enough evidence for me to say Shelley is a bad guy, but from that experience I like Sabin a lot more.
Posted By: Bernie (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 02:41 PM
I have met Alex Shelley on like four different occasions.
-The first one was at an Indy show and he was really quiet
-The second was at a house show for TNA and he was an ass ignoring the fans
-I conducted in interview with him in 2007 and he came across like an arrogant ass who hated Orlando Fans
-At the BFG Fanfest, he and Sabin ignored the fans and just talked to each other
I have been told by many different guys in the locker room that Shelley has a horrible backstage attitude. Unless he is pushed heavily (sometimes when he is) there is always a situation arise where Shelley makes comments that get him in trouble
Posted By: Talon (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 02:54 PM
I saw Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin at an idnie show and both were very cool. Even during their times as heels, they shook my nephews hand and complimented his sign. A friend of mine also wrestles for the promotion and said that they and aj styles are legit nice guys. they were very interested in the matches and basically let the indy guys script the match and they just filled it in. they even stayed after the show and was bs-ing for awhile.
Posted By: ifightfires (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 03:10 PM
Lest we forget Barry Horowitz turned from jobber to Bodydonna Skip pinner back in '95.
Horowitz Wins! Horowitz Wins!
Posted By: JackHartFan (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 04:12 PM
I met Alex Shelly at a TNA house show a couple of years ago, and he was a pretty chill guy. He was making jokes about how he introduced Minor Threat to CM Punk.
Posted By: Grantimus (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 05:13 PM
The answer is obviously Eddie Guerrero
Posted By: Walter Sobchak (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 05:41 PM
"Razor was just getting pushed to the world title when he left with Nash for WCW."
Uhhh no he wasn't, Ramon was jobbing to Vader, Goldust and HHH right before leaving.
Posted By: Bob (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 06:08 PM
DEFINITELY SCOTT HALL
Posted By: MEL (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 07:03 PM
curt henning was a world champ in the awa. and didn't dibiase buy the world title from andre?
Posted By: henning mark (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 07:43 PM
in scott hall's last wcw match he wrestled in a three way dance for the world title against jj and i think booker or sid.
Posted By: hey yo (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 07:46 PM
Isn't Mikey Whipwreck in ECW the classic 'jobber to main event' story?
Posted By: Banz (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 08:16 PM
IS IT LANCE STORM???
Posted By: Ej (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 08:31 PM
I have met Sabin, and I can personally say he is a class act. I have seen him giving autographs to fans for free when others were charging a few dollars. Shelley I have not met, but I know some guys who have worked with him and there were no complaints. I am a pretty humble guy, but if someone cuts me off, or does something stupid to endanger me in the ring or on the road, I would be a dick too.
Posted By: Indy (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:14 PM
damn i was thinking steven richards
Posted By: boae (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:32 PM
"Excellent question, although it bears pointing out that Rude was a world champion in WCW at one point. All the guys you mentioned, with the exception of Razor Ramon, had the tremendous misfortune of being very talented, very over guys in the Hogan era. If you weren't a monster or Hogan for the vast majority of that time, you weren't getting near the belt."
You're a retard if you don't think Hall can't work...
Posted By: DP (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:52 PM
Scott Hall has several shoot interviews where he says WCW wanted to put the World Title on him during the final years but he didn't want it.
Posted By: NastyRud (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 10:37 PM
i met shelley about two years ago at a ROH event in NYC. I was outside the event before it started watching as the wrestlers came in..... Shelly came in earlier than others... as he passed i noticed him and said "Shelley", did his sign from back then and tap him on the back, he then proceeded to say, and i quote," get your fucking hands off me you motherfucker." ... yea so to answer ur question, he is def a asshole.
Posted By: fuckShelley (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Does Sheik fart in that video?! Seriously, right at the 2:46 mark, mid-stammer! Take a listen, please!
Posted By: Sam! (Guest) on November 13, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Virgil had a title run when he became million dollar champion.Think its Awesome though
Posted By: Mr Wheal...Wheal! (Guest) on November 13, 2008 at 12:42 AM
I was gonna Gregory Helms but he didnt compete in Japan.
Posted By: RedVexx (Guest) on November 13, 2008 at 01:10 AM
""Excellent question, although it bears pointing out that Rude was a world champion in WCW at one point. All the guys you mentioned, with the exception of Razor Ramon, had the tremendous misfortune of being very talented, very over guys in the Hogan era. If you weren't a monster or Hogan for the vast majority of that time, you weren't getting near the belt."
You're a retard if you don't think Hall can't work...
Posted By: DP (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 09:52 PM"
Hall could work quite well as long as he didn't have to carry the match himself.
Hall can't work anymore, but the booze will do that.
Posted By: Darth Mortis (Registered) on November 13, 2008 at 02:27 AM
Vladimir aka Tanktop guy also makes an appearance on ECW ONS 2005 (or 06, im not sure).
Posted By: AlexXx (Guest) on November 13, 2008 at 08:11 AM
Maybe Shelley just doesn't like fans. From all accounts he seems fine in the locker room but doesn't like being bothered, I don't think that makes him an ass.
Posted By: Curtis (Guest) on November 13, 2008 at 11:32 AM
The Answer is Paul Roma. It is Always Paul Roma.
Posted By: atiatei (Guest) on November 13, 2008 at 05:02 PM
curt henning was a world champ in the awa. and didn't dibiase buy the world title from andre?
Posted By: henning mark (Guest) on November 12, 2008 at 07:43 PM
If you're really a mark for the guy, you should at least get his name correct. It is Curt HENNIG, not Henning.
On another note, I was feeling pretty good while reading the comments, just because it was beginning to look as though I wouldn't have to see yet another post from the super-douche who calls himself Darth Mortis. Just as I getting towards the end, BAM! - that annoying fucker showed up once again. I should've known it was too good to be true.
Posted By: Hillelman (Guest) on November 14, 2008 at 08:14 AM
Mr. Perfect, Razor Ramon, Rick Rude, Roddy Piper, and Ted DiBiase were never world champions because they were around in an era when you had to PAY YOUR DUES and weren't just handed a world title after the WWE pulled you from the developmental league in desperate hope of finding the next Stone Cold or Rock. In today's era, Mr. Perfect, DiBiase, Rude and Piper would definitely be world champions. I mean look at the lesser talents the E has put the strap on: JBL, CM Punk, The Great Kahli, Kane. Even poeple like Rey Misterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Booker T, Mankind, Randy Orton, Edge wouldn't have gotten a run with the world title back in that era.
And are you kidding me??? Razor was not even CLOSE to getting pushed to the world title when he left with Nash for WCW. He wasn't even in the IC title picture. He was jobbing to other midcarders and his career was going nowhere. He was only in the world title picture a little bit after he came in '92 when he challenged Bret Hart at the '93 Royal Rumble. After that he stayed in the IC title picture, but in '96 (the year he left for WCW) after he dropped the title to Goldust at the Royal Rumble he was a mid-level jobber and didn't SNIFF the world title.
Posted By: Guest#0780 (Guest) on November 14, 2008 at 03:56 PM
John Cena did NOT have the Spinner belt at the beginning of his WWE championship reign. When he won the title at WrestleMania 21 from JBL, it was the old undisputed WWE title that was introduced after Trips beat Jericho for the WWE and WCW titles.
Posted By: Guest#6926 (Guest) on November 14, 2008 at 04:12 PM
The Undertaker is "the most enduring character in wrestling"?? I hope you mean today b/c CLEARLY "Ric Flair" and "Hulk Hogan" surpass the Undertaker's 18 year run (as probably do many others).
Posted By: Guest#3871 (Guest) on November 14, 2008 at 04:30 PM
I seem to remember in '91 the WWF saying (at least on TV) WrestleMania VII was changed from Memorial Coliseum to the smaller Sports Arena because of security reasons due to the Persian Gulf War...
Posted By: Guest#1394 (Guest) on November 14, 2008 at 04:38 PM
Terry Taylor was NOT a jobber. Before he came to the WWF, he was TV champion in the UWF. When he came to the WWF he was turned into the Red Rooster. Although he rarely won, he was a midcarder not a jobber.
Now Edge was a jobber in WCW as "Damon Stryker". But he obviously switched promotions before he got to the main event. What about Ron Simmons in the NWA/WCW?
Posted By: Guest#7660 (Guest) on November 14, 2008 at 04:48 PM
"Maybe Shelley just doesn't like fans. From all accounts he seems fine in the locker room but doesn't like being bothered, I don't think that makes him an ass."
-Curtis
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Doesn't like the fans eh?
I guess that makes sense because everyone knows that the "fans" have nothing to do with wrestling.
I mean, they only buy the tickets, wear the t-shirts, watch the dvd's, buy the PPV's, visit the websites, oh and, GET THE WRESTLERS OVER!!!!
If a wrestler doesn't like wrestling fans then, yes, that does make him/her an ass. A HUGE ONE!!!!
Posted By: VOZ (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 06:10 PM
You used the term "Mat Hag", I think the correct term is Ring Rat. :)
Posted By: BigAl6a (Guest) on November 21, 2008 at 06:37 PM
