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The Wrestling Doctor 01.27.09: The Myth of Vinnie Mac and The Macho Man
Posted by W.S. Thomason on 01.27.2009



THE WRESTLING DOCTOR



THIS WEEK'S PATIENT: WHAT IS UP WITH VINNIE MAC AND THE MACHO MAN?
One of the most common topics of discussion, speculation, and rumor on the IWC is the status of Randy "Macho Man" Savage's relationship with Vince McMahon and the WWE.

The story goes like this (as far as anyone knows): Savage left the WWF in November 1994 after nine highly successful years in order to pursue an opportunity with WCW. Savage had been increasingly unhappy with the way in which the WWF had used him since the end of 1992, when McMahon decided to go with a New Generation of stars. Savage spent two years floating between the announce table and occasional mid-level feuds, but the Macho Man believed that he still had several good ring years left in him. Savage spent five years in WCW as a top star before pricing himself out of a renewal deal.

The reasons for Savage's departure from the WWF have been the source of the speculation. The common story is that Savage slept with an underage Stephanie McMahon. Vince found out about it, and banned Savage forever from the WWE Universe. Bret Hart stated that Savage quit the WWF via a drunken phone call. Certainly not the most tactful method of resignation, but there have been relationships in the WWF that have ended under much worse circumstances. Others have speculated that Vince was upset over Savage jumping ship to WCW.

What I have not seen discussed on the IWC regarding the situation is that McMahon publicly thanked the Macho Man for his years of service to the WWF on Savage's final episode of Monday Night Raw. It was in early or mid-November 1994, prior to Survivor Series. Savage was doing color commentary, and as the show ended McMahon acknowledged that he was leaving the company and thanked him for all that he had done for the WWF. The move was highly unusual for an era when the WWF never even recognized the existence of other wrestling companies. The moment was heavily discussed in the pre-IWC dirt sheets and wrestling mags for the uncharacteristic breaking of kayfabe.

So why would McMahon send the Macho Man off with pomp and circumstance if he was angry at his departure for WCW, or if Savage had quit via drunk dial? Vince certainly would not have given the Macho Man the time of day if he had slept with Stephanie. The gracious departure moment creates a significant problem for all of the commonly-accepted explanations for the McMahon-Savage tensions.

Possibly the Raw episode was taped (the WWF taped 2-3 weeks at once at the time), giving Savage the opportunity to later call Vince drunk, but that explanation is a long shot considering that Savage had obviously already given notice prior to the taping. The Raw moment kills the Stephanie theory, unless Vince found out about the incident after the Macho Man was safely in Atlanta. Even so, it was widely reported that Savage was negotiating with the WWF in the summer of 2000. Possibly the affair came to light at that time – hence the disintegration of negotiations – but it was rumored that Savage wanted far more money than the WWF was willing to pay for the services of an aged Macho Man. Eric Bischoff somewhat backed up such a story in his autobiography by discussing the Macho Man's increased demands at the end of his contract, as well as his increasing paranoia within the business.

Another big question would be why did Vince not press charges against Savage if he did indeed sleep with an underage Stephanie? Vince had just been acquitted in his steroid conspiracy trial in the summer of 1994, so possibly he did not want to provide any more negative publicity of the company or the business (Imagine the headline: "Wrestling magnate pimps underage daughter to talent"). The lack of charges also lends credence to the idea that maybe McMahon found out about the incident much later.

Of course, all of the Macho Man stories heavily circulated the nascent IWC in the mid-nineties, and anything that came off the web in the Monday Night War / Attitude Era is suspect. There was a lot more rumor floating around as fact then than now. Anyone remember The Giant's October 1996 US Title win over Ric Flair? How about Viscera's death in a car crash in late 1999? And do not forget that the reason for the switch to "Stone Cold" Steve Austin from The Ring Master was because WCW had planned to use the Stone Cold moniker for Kevin Nash.

The IWC is an interesting case study of internet-based communities. Like all sub-cultures, the IWC has its own accepted version of history as well as myths that have been repeated so often that they have become engrained in the fabric of the past. Somewhere in the early days of the IWC the gracious departure given Savage by the WWF in 1994 disappeared from the record. The internet provides immediate access to the past, but it also often removes those events from the original context, blurring the historical background. A lot of fans who got into wrestling during the Monday Night Wars may not even be aware of the moment (don't get your skid-marked briefs and Husky jeans in a bunch; that statement is not a knock on anyone.) The Raw moment is also in serious conflict with the intensity of Vince's reported hatred for Savage. The most likely explanation is a combination of the two, so that over the years the actual events got tangled up in the IWC mythology to the point where now the truth and rumor are inseparable.

Then again, maybe Vince invested heavily in Be A Man. If the WBF and XFL taught us anything, it is that he likes to get his money's worth

What we do know is that we will probably never know the truth, even if both parties come out and state their side, as both guys have a rich past of spinning events in their favor.

Of course, within a few years we may see the bastard child of Savage and Stephanie make his WWE debut in an attempt to gain revenge on his grandfather. If only…

Next week I will have some more Battle Bowl reloads along with the results of last week's poll on options for how to rebook the finale.


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Comments (44)

 
damn it that was a waste

Posted By: the masked guest (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 12:12 AM

 
 
Did Savage bang Steph regularly or was it a one-shot deal?

Posted By: guest (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 12:23 AM

 
 
Maybe he didn't screw Steph. Maybe he screwed Shane.

Posted By: Justin (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:04 AM

 
 
DIG IT!!

Posted By: One shot deal (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 03:43 AM

 
 
forget steph, forget shane, maybe he SCREWED VINCE!! the drunken phone call ended up in a drunken rape of vince

Posted By: dr love (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 04:03 AM

 
 
Stephanie did not screw Savage. Savage... screwed Savage.

Posted By: Brian (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 07:24 AM

 
 
Dunno about y'all but i think he diddled Linda! Either that or someone left spicy processed beef by-product wrappers under his bed.

Posted By: GovernmentCheese (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 08:10 AM

 
 
Snap into a Slim Jim.

Posted By: Lou Thesz (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 09:14 AM

 
 
this poor bastard writes this column

and these momo's just comment with gay jokes

sorry there w.s. thomason, i thought it was an ok read myself

america is dumb

i weep for the future


Posted By: pray for rain (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 09:56 AM

 
 
Does anyone remember a Smackdown magazine that was printed at the end of 2002 (maybe beginning of 2003) that featured an interview with Macho? Seeing as how he's banned from everything now (Legends of Wrestlemania, looking right at you), you would think he would not be featured in the cover story of their magazine. So, maybe something happened in the last six years.

You never know.. maybe it isn't Vince that banned Macho, if you get what I'm saying.


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:09 AM

 
 
Anybody, I mean ANYBODY, who believes there's an ounce of truth to the Savage-Stephanie rumors is a fucking retard who gets off on the idea of a scandalous story. Period. Nothing more to say there. Save your lame comments.

Glad you brought up the public McMahon thank you to Savage on RAW. Something else that people forget is that the week before he left, Savage did a run in to save someone (possibly an official) from Bob Backlund who was in his crazy man stage. The set up was supposed to have Savage become the latest victim of the crossface chicken wing the following week and probably a one-on-one match he would lose. Perhaps this was the last straw as Savage didn't want to sell for Backlund or show weakness by submitting to the CFCW on RAW? Not sure if Savage had legit heat with Backlund, but it might be one of the seeds that was planted in his eventual exit.


Posted By: Brad B (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:14 AM

 
 
"we may see the bastard child of Savage and Stephanie"

Did he sign a contract or is it a one shot deal?


Posted By: Guest#0175 (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:15 AM

 
 
Maybe, just maybe, McMahon doesn't want to work with Savage because he's got a limited upside and is a pain in the ass. It's not like Savage was Hogan/Austin/Rock to the WWF. McMahon probably figures that any income generated by Savage would be offset by his petulant demands and douchebaggery.

Posted By: Iron Knee (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:55 AM

 
 
My theory is that whatever happened happened **POST** WCW, when Vince was negotiating with everyone from WCW, maybe that's when he found out about Steph, maybe HHH didn't like him. Hey-- maybe Vince wanted to bang Elizabeth and blamed Savage for her decline & death....

Who knows?


Posted By: M:-X (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:57 AM

 
 
Wow, what exactly was the point of this? You could've trimmed some more fat off this article. "Hey fellas, you know that rumor about Macho Man and why he can't come back to WWE? Well, I don't know what's true and what's not! See you next week."

There you go, free of charge for the WWEtard.


Posted By: lOoKaTmE (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 11:07 AM

 
 
In 94, Steph woulda been 18... He would have had to put it in her butt before then.

Posted By: Jimmy (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 11:28 AM

 
 
Savage left in October and wasn't in the booth when Mcmahon thanked him publicly as Vince pointed out his absence and then thanked him for his service. Thats why its not mentioned because thats not the way it happened.

Posted By: Guest#1088 (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 11:54 AM

 
 
As suspected, this article didn't shed any new light on the McMahon/Savage controversy. Bleh. I will give Thomason credit for mentioning that McMahon acknowledged Savage's departure from the WWF and McMahon said Savage was his favorite performer. The animosity likely came later and was likely Savage's own doing.

Posted By: NoirFan (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 12:05 PM

 
 
Besides the 1994 farewell, it seems as if most fans aren't familiar with the 2003 Smackdown magazine article about Savage. The writer even got a chance to talk to Savage himself. IIRC, they even added a recent pic of Savage for the magazine.

Now, I doubt Vinnie Mac would of approved it the Stephanie rumors were true.


Posted By: Talley (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 12:21 PM

 
 
fuck the slim jims, snap into stephanie!

Posted By: ladnf (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 12:42 PM

 
 
For the life of me, I'll never understand this situation until either party comes clean on it (Vince we know is nearly impossible to pry information from, has anyone ever asked Savage about it?) Every reason and detail I can think of has two sides to the story.

- That Rumor: Yeah, you'd think there would have been legal action taken. Then again, Vince thinks a lot of stuff can be solved in the realm of the WWE, as it seems that where real life begins and ends. (unfortunately this is why we see what people did behind the scenes manifest somehow on camera so often)

Savage jumping to WCW. On one hand I can see VKM taking that personally. On the other hand I want to say, so? A lot of people did that and later patched things up OK, including the one man we thought would NEVER do that (the best example there is, the best there was, etc. etc.) Others, however? (Who? I DON'T KNOOOOOOOOW!) Not so much.

Savage still being seen on 24/7. So? Other bridge burners appear there (Luger, Douglas...) Seems unless you kill your wife and cause a media firestorm, there's no strict policy against people on reruns there. But then again, Savage is starting to be seen on some DVDs as of late.

Savage not resigning/being too pricey? Well we can see it as another Warrior who didn't want to "crawl back," and we saw where that got him. But if it was that, wouldn't Vince think another Self-Destruction video would be in order instead of just silence? On the other hand, Sting never wanted to sign with WWF/E and is treated fairly well.

Did Hogan have Vince's ear due to the heat between him and Savage? Well then why didn't things improve in the times Hogan was on the outs with them?

Bottom line: this is complicated. And we're suffering for it if we're classic era fans.


Posted By: James (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:05 PM

 
 
BE A MAN, VINCE! Don't be SKURRED!
You runnin from payin Macho five million a match, thas wut I HURRD...

Wait, has anyone else actually listened to that song..?


Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:26 PM

 
 
Iron Knee probably has the explanation closest to the truth.

"Maybe, just maybe, McMahon doesn't want to work with Savage because he's got a limited upside and is a pain in the ass."

See his almost-phantom run in TNA. He's old and senile and wanting certain people barred from being around him.

"It's not like Savage was Hogan/Austin/Rock to the WWF."

He wasn't even on the level of Warrior back in the day, and during the end of his run, he was lower than Perfect, Bret, Razor, among others. Savage was an incredible draw and ring technician, but not the top of the company.

"McMahon probably figures that any income generated by Savage would be offset by his petulant demands and douchebaggery."

Take the above comment and add in two things:
1. Warrior, of all people, will be in an upcoming WWE project and will receive due royalties. He is notorious for standing firm on big-money contracts and being a pain to deal with.

2. Ted Turner's WCW wouldn't even pay the amount Macho what he felt he deserved. That right there says it most of it, especially considering people like Nash, Hogan and Goldberg could agree with WCW on some amount.


In the end, Vince probably said, 'to hell with it.'

At this stage, Savage would be a ton of money lost for the E (assuming they went with his presumably insane contract demands).


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:26 PM

 
 
Oh.. forget to add, that's probably why you won't see Savage on a DVD compilation or a video game probably ever again. Royalties and checks.

So maybe he is not 'banned'; he's just overpriced to the point of all future deals being off.


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:28 PM

 
 
Who knows what the beef is between those two, but odds are the day The Macho Man is inducted into the hall of fame or seen in a video game (How petty is Vince? Savage is just as much a part of Wrestlemania as Hogan is!) is probably the same day the cubs win the world series. Which means it is never going to happen

Posted By: Michael (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:37 PM

 
 
And then I just read this:

Just because the Ultimate Warrior is in WWE's new Legends of Wrestling video game doesn't mean the two sides have worked out their differences. ..The likely reason that Warrior got into the game is that he probably reached a settlement with THQ, the maker of the game.."

So who knows. I guess they could throw whatever Macho footage they wanted on a DVD without paying him anything (like with Warrior). Does anyone know the technical details? I know they own the footage.

Not to get too off topic:
Wouldn't WWE have the final say in Warrior (or Macho) being in a game (any product, for that matter)? I remember very clearly that Big Show was demanded removal from N64's 'No Mercy' back in 2000; and of course, Benoit from 'Smackdown 2008'. What if it was Randy Savage in that lawsuit with THQ?


Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:44 PM

 
 
maybe Macho just slept with Linda instead of Steph. therefore: no trial but still a VERY upset McMahon.

Posted By: guy incognito (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 01:54 PM

 
 
I remember that RAw when Vince thanked Savage. I got it taped somewhere. I'll have to look for it but I'm pretty sure that it was at the beginning of Raw and then some one else (Petingil?)Did commentating with him the whole show.

Posted By: Knotslip (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:13 PM

 
 
Be a man, Stephanie! (Come on, don't be scurred / Ya runnin' from Macho, that's what I heard)

I love that record. Too bad I'm the only one who ever bought a copy. The rest of you are missing out on some seriously hilarious photography in the linear notes.


Posted By: Nick (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:21 PM

 
 
Don't worry. Mean Gene frequents a bar that I am connected with. Mean Gene likes to get a little loosey-goosey after a few. I got my boys there ready to ask him about Savage-Steph when he's good and bombed.

Posted By: Big Fat Fag (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:27 PM

 
 
Maybe he boned Steph then threatened to KILL Vince and his family if he went to the authorities then got him to thank him publically just to fuck with him.Could happen...that'd make a good film actually

Posted By: The Twisted World of the IWC (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:27 PM

 
 
And Also In The 1st Hogan dvd, Hulk Still Rules, I Think There's Something in there Hulk says about Savage calling him in the middle of the night and then them going to some gym with a bunch of beer till 5 am. And they "finalized an agreement with Eric" As For Steph/Savage...Get Real Ppl!

Posted By: Knotslip (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:31 PM

 
 
Hebner screwed Savage..no wait that was Bret Hart...Savage/Steph sex tape for the IWC would be bigger than an RVD return to the 'E!

Posted By: It was... (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 02:59 PM

 
 
That's the Problem when all parties are tight lipped. I tend to go by Bret Hart's comments on the issue. But since this is the world we live in, The theory almost fits the facts/Non facts. Until Vince opens up, We'll never really know.

Posted By: Tony Forever (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 03:32 PM

 
 
If Savage had relations with Steph, do you honestly think his likeness/matches would be featured on any videos or DVD's?

Take a look at the Saturday Night's Main Event DVD that's coming out next month; it has a grip of Savage matches. Not to mention, HE'S ON THE COVER!!!

Again if the Steph reports were true, I think Savage would be battling Benoit over that "He who shall not named" moniker.


Posted By: If I Can Be Serious... (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 04:08 PM

 
 
Just as an aside.. I believe that Randy Savage, Owen Hart, and Nailz are the only three performers that are "off-limits" for Jakks Pacific to approach about a Classic Superstars figure, according to the person that signs that talent. Not sure what the deal is with Savage.. but it seems odd that Vince will let Jakks work with Warrior, Luger, Bret, (hypothetically) Douglas, Bruno, Ivan Koloff, and so many others where there is some sort of bad blood, y'know?

Posted By: Blackbird 13 (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 04:23 PM

 
 
I really miss Savage. He's the first performer in the WWE(F) or wrestling period that I ever considered my favorite. Of all my favorites since (Angle, Benoit, Jericho and Finlay), none have come close to bringing me the joy and excitement Macho brought.

While I don't buy the Stephanie rumour, there's no question there's some money to be made off of a Savage appearance. When have we known Vince to turn down money? At this point Savage doesn't have that much more going for him (at least not publicly that we know of). How much could he really be demanding?


Posted By: MachoManFanStill (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 04:38 PM

 
 
Maybe he fucked shane intead of steph. maybe he didn't want to fuck steph cuz she is a nsty fat ho

Posted By: groot (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 08:07 PM

 
 
Hey Stephanie you were awesome in bed can we do it again?

Posted By: Randy Savage (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 09:58 PM

 
 
Nearly all of the head guys in WCW have come to the WWE (Nash, Hall, Hogan, Flair, Rhodes). Sting with his Christian beliefs being the lone hold out. Macho Man is much more popular than most other wrestlers. He appears on morning radio shows, he was in the Spiderman movie, was the main spokesperson for Slim Jims and still to this day people know him. Vince over looks a lot of shady things that wrestlers have done. Jimmy Snuka killed a groupie in a motel room (allegedly) and still kept making appearances. Iron Sheik and Jim Duggan get busted for drugs and broke kayfabe and Vince still takes them back. Iron Sheik is still a crackhead and he still shows up on tv from time to time. I seriously doubt Macho Man priced himself out of the market. It's been a while since he's been on TV and I'm sure he could use a few paychecks and the bump to his popularity. Vince is pissed about something Macho Man did. I don't know if it's the Stephanie thing, but it is definitely something personal. No DVD compilations, no Hall of Fame, no mention of Macho Man period. We all know wrestling is a business first and foremost, if there is money to be made Vince will do what it takes to make it. I find it strange that none of the other wrestlers have said anything about it. If it was the Stephanie thing it makes sense. Vince could send word to everyone that if they say anything they will be black balled from the company as well and Macho Man surely doesn't want to admit that he had sex with an underage girl.

Posted By: Ghost of Marlon Brando (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:30 PM

 
 
Glad to see that some other points of reference are being considered. Some really good points from Bischoff and the McMahon send-off, and another about the internet community having their accepted version of history (partly because it is so provocative). I'd explain the McMahon on air send-off by either A) They both expected to eventually work together again, and the relationship was not totally broken at that point...or B) The relationship was totally broken, but McMahon was basically kayfabing the whole thing, partly because he didn't want Savage showing up in WCW to come as a surprise that would have generated ratings (as Luger, Hall and Nash would later do).

Bischoff's take? He thought -everyone- was a pain in the ass at some point. Savage, Flair, Nash, Hall, Jericho, Russo, Vader, Austin, Foley, etc...everyone except Hogan, and the only reason he doesn't say so is because him and Hogan still do business together.


Posted By: ScottNM (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:38 PM

 
 
JUST when you started getting interesting and talking about subcultures and putting some intellectual theory to use...you go and end the column. I feel like you raped me intellectually. I got nothing out of that at all. Hope it was good for you!

And here I thought it was going to be a lot longer than it actually was, with the scroll bar on the right being mere millimeters in size, but then it ended and we're left with IWC idiots making gay jokes. Well they can suck it. Just cuz you tried to sneak some brain in the back door doesn't mean that everything coming out of their mouths has to be homosexual innuendo. That really gets my goat!


Posted By: The Dude (Guest)  on January 27, 2009 at 10:54 PM

 
 
Hey Stephanie you were awesome in bed can we do it again?
Posted By: Randy Savage (Guest) on January 27, 2009 at 09:58 PM

You're dead meat Randy


Posted By: Triple H (Guest)  on January 28, 2009 at 01:34 PM

 
 
If Savage did indeed rape Stephanie, wouldn't he be in prison right now? Also, Savage would have been blacklisted from every wrestling promotion, including WCW.

To those who insist on following the "Savage raped Stephanie" BS, here's a link that provides another theory why Savage is on McMahon's shitlist:

http://realwrestlecrap.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=wrestling&a
ction=print&thread=170096

Short story: When Savage signed with WCW, he took the Slim Jim sponsorship-- a major provider of ad revenue for the WWF at the time-- with him.


Posted By: DuoMaxwell (Guest)  on January 31, 2009 at 11:19 PM

 


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