The Wrestling Doctor 02.17.09: Wrestlemania IX Reload
Posted by W.S. Thomason on 02.17.2009
The Wrestling Doctor reloads the worst biggest stage of all time, Wrestlemania IX.
THE WRESTLING DOCTOR
A few years ago someone asked me what was the one thing I missed the least about living in my home state of North Carolina. My response – in all seriousness – was not having to hear Mike Hogewood. Really, ROH? Mike Hogewood? Anyone who lived in the North Carolina piedmont in the nineties just threw up a little in their mouth when they read that news item. CA-RO-LINA KIA!
THIS WEEK'S PATIENT: WRESTLEMANIA IX RELOAD
The most maligned Wrestlemania of all time was the ninth edition, held on April 4, 1993. The show was the first Mania after professional wrestling had taken a significant downturn business-wise, and the event was held at a converted tennis stadium at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas. The venue and atmosphere were a significant step down from the pageantry of the stadium and big arena shows of the past, despite the WWF's cheesy attempts to put a classical touch on the event.
The biggest disappointment of Wrestlemania IX was the outcome of the main event. Bret Hart's WWF Title defense against Yokozuna did not carry the weight of previous events, and it was the first Wrestlemania main event to have been regularly run on the house show circuit prior to the big show. Hart had been pushed since October 1992 as the most fighting WWF Champion of all time. Hart was seen as the torchbearer as the first big step away from the WWF's 1980's line-up, so everyone assumed that he would walk out of Las Vegas with the gold intact. Hulk Hogan had returned to the company in February after a near-year hiatus to help Brutus Beefcake against Tag Team Champions Money Inc, but there was no indication that he would stay around for the long term.
Yokozuna defeated Hart for the title, becoming the first heel to win a Wrestlemania main event, and Hogan came out to assist Hart. Mr. Fuji challenged Hogan to an impromptu match, and Hogan won the belt in 21 seconds. Much of the wrestling world let out a collective groan of a volume that would not be rivaled until the end of Starrcade 97.
The main event was not the only problem with Wrestlemania IX. The line up was not bad, but the actual performances were sub-par for the talent involved. Every participant seemed to be at least a little off. The Las Vegas environment may not have been the best for the party-hard roster. There have been persistent rumors that Hogan and Randy Savage had a physical altercation over the weekend, and that Vince and Linda McMahon were resolving long-standing marital issues. Speculation aside, the wrestlers just did not perform well, as not one match from the entire show stands out. Even IX's bridesmaid, Wrestlemania XI, put one solid match on the table. With Wrestlemania XXV on the horizon, it is time to reload Wrestlemania IX.
As a refresher, my main criteria for a reload are that:
• The show was considerably disappointing if not outright horrendous.
• Changing the show, even significantly, would not radically alter wresting history. (For example, I would not rebook Survivor Series 1997 because of the Montreal Screwjob, but I would work over Super Brawl 93.) A truly mediocre show does not have any major long-term impact.
• The show has to re-booked within the context of its time. For example, Wrestlemania IX could not be re-loaded with an Attitude Era feel.
The main event options for Wrestlemania IX were not very attractive. Bret Hart had already run through all of the company's top competition. His challenger, Yokozuna, was devastating but had only been with the company for six months. Razor Ramon, who had been built up as the company's top heel since September, may have been a good bet, but Hart had decisively defeated The Bad Guy at The Royal Rumble. The best option for a reload would be to put the representative of the WWF's New Generation against the icon of its eighties heyday: Hart vs. Hogan, in a match to truly pass the torch from one decade to another.
Maybe this match could be set up at The Royal Rumble the same way that the real Wrestlemania IX ended. Money Inc. attacks a returning Brutus Beefcake at the end of 1992, resulting in Hogan appearing on the first Monday Night Raw. Hogan and Beefcake win by disqualification over Money Inc. in a tag title match at the Rumble. Meanwhile, Yokozuna beats Bret for the strap. Hogan comes out to tend to The Hitman, Mr. Fuji challenges him to an impromptu title match, and Hogan wins the gold. Hart naturally wants the belt back, and thus a match with The Hulkster is set for Wrestlemania IX.
Basil DeVito states in his Wrestlemania book that Caesar's Palace never truly believed that Hulk Hogan would not be involved in IX, though that was the original plan. Hogan's participation did seem rushed, and the tag match with Beefcake was not exactly of the same caliber build of his other Wrestlemania efforts. Giving Hogan's return more build would have certainly helped the show, though it may have involved substantial backstage maneuvering.
The biggest downside of the loss to Yokozuna at The Royal Rumble would be the weakening of Hart as champion. Hart won the gold in October, so the loss would have ended his reign after three months, in the middle of his build. The WWF could have spun the loss, however, by emphasizing Hart's heavy defense load as WWF champion even more so than they did during his first reign. There could be other mitigating factors – such as a kayfabe injury or illness, like the one that lead to his loss of the IC Title to The Mountie – to keep Hart strong for a win over Hogan at the big show.
The second option to build the match would be for Hogan to help out Beefcake with the same story as above, but without the win over Yokozuna at the Rumble. Hart goes into Wrestlemania as champion and defeats Hogan to retain the belt. The story is simpler and keeps Bret strong, but it does not give him as big of a bump as if he had won the gold off of The Hulkster.
Regardless of build, the Hart-Hogan match could only end one way. Hogan nails the big boot, goes for the leg drop, but The Hitman rolls out of the way. Hogan hits the mat hard, sells it like he did at Wrestlemania VI, and Hart slaps on the sharpshooter. Hogan submits, and Bret Hart is immediately elevated to a new level of WWF Champion. He would also have gained tons of kayfabe credibility, being the only man at the time with world title wins over both Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan (in reality, only Sting holds that honor). If Hogan did not want to job to Hart at Summerslam 93 as Vince originally planned, he most likely would have objected to putting Bret over on the biggest stage of them all. But for the purposes of this reload, I will delude myself that in the mid-nineties Hogan would do what was best for the company instead of for himself.
The ramifications of this reload would stretch into Wrestlemania X. Yokozuna's title reign in 1993 led to Lex Luger's face turn, which set up the Summerslam main event and failed Lex Express tour, which led to the Hart / Luger double Royal Rumble win, and multi-part Wrestlemania X main event. The X story is too good to change, especially Owen's opening match win over Bret, all of which would be in jeopardy if Bret holds the title throughout 1993. Yokozuna would need to get the title off of Bret. The King of the Ring PPV would be a good spot, with Hart first winning the tournament through three matches and then dropping to Yoko in a fourth. The story could be that Bret was essentially over-zealous in being a fighting champion. Jerry Lawler could have interfered, setting up the Hart-Lawler feud and setting the split with Owen into motion. Summerslam could be another option, with the Luger-Yokozuna angle occurring in the fall, though that scenario is not as attractive.
Championships – particularly world titles – did not change hands in the early nineties with the frequency of the Monday Night War era and beyond. Losing the belt at The Royal Rumble and then The King of the Ring could make Hart look like an unsustainable champion in the context of 1993, so a tremendous effort would have to be made to explain why Hart was losing the belt twice in six months. Despite this, Hart gains a bigger push by winning the belt off of Hogan at Wrestlemania IX instead of just retaining it.
The Hart-Hogan main event leaves Yokozuna out in the cold, but the perfect space for him to fill is against The Undertaker. Drop Giant Gonzalez from the WWF altogether – he really had no impact – and have Yokozuna feud with The Dead Man for the spring and summer. Their matches were much better than what even the UT could pull out of Gonzalez. Undertaker wins by disqualification at Wrestlemania.
The WWF Tag Team Title match open up because of Hogan's card shift, but The Steiner Brothers are there to move in. The Steiners feuded with and won the titles off of Money Inc. in the spring and summer, so this match is a natural. To extend the feud, book a Dusty finish akin to the ending of the original Money Inc. – Mega Maniacs match. The Steiners appear to win the belts only to have the decision reversed and the titles returned to Money Inc. on a DQ. The feud is extended through The Steiner's title win in June.
The Steiners' original IX opponent, The Headshrinkers, could be booked into a six man win with Bam Bam Bigelow over The Nasty Boys, who were on their way out of the company, and Kamala. The Headshrinkers and Nasty Boys had a wild brawl on a March edition of Raw, so the feud was already set up. Bigelow and Kamala were originally scheduled to wrestle on the card, but the match was cut due to time restrictions.
I would not make substantial revisions to the rest of the card. Wrestlemania IX was not a bad show on paper, but the performances in many matches left the show flat. Something is in the water when Shawn Michaels, the early nineties Steiners, and Mr. Perfect are all blowing multiple spots in one show. Maybe the weekend in Las Vegas was party heavy, or maybe it was the outdoor setting, but something was not quite right with the roster. The best reload for these problems is not to change matches but to address the backstage issues that showed up in the ring.
The reloaded Wrestlemania IX looks like this:
• Bret Hart over Hulk Hogan to win the WWF Title (18:27)
• The Undertaker over Yokozuna by disqualification (7:33)
• Lex Luger over Mr. Perfect (10:56)
• Tag Team Champions Money Inc. over The Steiners by disqualification (14:22)
• Razor Ramon over Bob Backlund (3:45)
• Doink the Clown over Crush (6:28)
• The Headshrinkers & Bam Bam Bigelow over The Nasty Boys & Kamala (8:17)
• Tatanka over Intercontinental Champion Shawn Michaels by count-out (16:13)
Not the best Wrestlemania by any means, but with a little attention the ninth edition of the biggest show of the year may not have ended up being the worst.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Would have been a great finish seeing Hogan tap to the Sharpshooter, but the day hogans taps to Bret Hart, I'm U Thant!!!!
Posted By: Frizost (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 11:10 AM
all u did was change the main, which anyone could have done and then put yoko vs UT n added the 6 man..how bout perfect vs hbk or steiner vs razor n bam bam
Posted By: lame (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 11:34 AM
I was 11 years old when I saw this live, and I remember the moment right after it ended - it was the first time I was really kind of disgusted by wrestling. I loved Bret, but to see him lose like a chump and have Hogan win in 10 seconds was obscene. Shortly thereafter, they started shoving "Lex Luger, American Hero" down our throats, at which point I was finished with wrestling until about 1996.
Posted By: s1rweeze (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Looks good, at least much better anyway. The only changes I would make are less DQ's. I hate disqualifications on PPV, but mainly on the biggest stage of them all.
I'd also replace Tatanka with Marty Jannetty, just because I feel the feud was Wrestlemania worthy. I don't remember where their feud was at that point, but still.
Otherwise, looks much, much better.
Posted By: Hugo (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Bret Hart was simply not a good champion and it's clear that Vince didn't think so either. Business dropped off tremendously during Bret's first reign and as soon as Hogan was back in the picture, Vince put the belt on him immediately. Business continued to fall with Bret at the helm and ratings and buyrates shot up almost immediately when Bret finally left the company in '97.
Posted By: Bob (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:09 PM
"I'd also replace Tatanka with Marty Jannetty, just because I feel the feud was Wrestlemania worthy."
Maybe, but Tatanka was undefeated at the time and was on a huge roll. I remember REALLY looking forward to Tatanka/HBK.
"Business dropped off tremendously during Bret's first reign"
Bret deserves maybe 15% of the blame for the drop off. Wrestling had been dropping off the map very steadily since 1990, mostly because of burnout and a lack of new guys to get attached to.
Posted By: s1rweeze (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:16 PM
"Hogan won the belt in 21 seconds. Much of the wrestling world let out a collective groan"
Really? It sounded to me like the live crowd was cheering wildly.
Posted By: soopersizeme (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:24 PM
It is easy too look back 16 years later and say the outcome of Wrestlemania IX was disappointing. All the smarky IWC nerds trash the show because their darling Bret Hart was "buried."
But most smarky nerds who think they know wrestling weren't even old enough to watch Wrestlemania IX in 1993. They're applying their own whiny IWC standards of 2009 to a 1993 show. The closing to Wrestlemania IX was a blast and a shocker back then. It was an unprecedented close to a WWF pay-per-view. I know the IWC brats will forever cry about this show, but McMahon gave the fans what they wanted. Live with it and get over yourselves.
Posted By: More than an opinion (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Again, WM IX was not the worst. Not even close. Yes, the ending fell way flat. But I'd put any of that show's marquee matchups against anything on the WM IV card and WM IX will win almost every time.
With the exception of Savage being crowned at the end of the show, WM IV has the distinction of being a ZERO MATCH SHOW! Not one "good" match on the entire 4-hour card.
Posted By: Jason S (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Wrestling had been dropping off the map very steadily since 1990, mostly because of burnout and a lack of new guys to get attached to.
Posted By: s1rweeze (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:16 PM
_______________________________________
Not true. Wrestlemania VII, which featured Hogan, Savage and Warrior in top matches, had more buys than any WWF PPV at that time. Business fell off in 93 because they all left or in Savage's case, semi-retired.
Posted By: Guest#2648 (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 01:07 PM
Wrestling had been dropping off the map very steadily since 1990, mostly because of burnout and a lack of new guys to get attached to.
Posted By: s1rweeze (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 12:16 PM
_______________________________________
Not true. Wrestlemania VII, which featured Hogan, Savage and Warrior in top matches, had more buys than any WWF PPV at that time. Business fell off in 93 because they all left or in Savage's case, semi-retired.
Posted By: Guest#2648 (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 01:07 PM
Not true. Wrestlemania VII was not a success. They switched venues from the LA Coliseum to the sports arena due to the attendance being low. They used the excuse that there were death threats on Slaughter at the time, but that was just an excuse to make the location switch.
Posted By: Anthony (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 02:13 PM
Hogan should have been decapitated for this stunt.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 02:30 PM
Good job overall, but one thing... who wins the 1993 Rumble? If Yokozuna defeats Hart and they rush the Hogan switch to that night ala WM 9, then who wins the Rumble? They could have had Hogan return and win the Rumble in a shocking return, and then in the main event have Hogan come in and get his title shot right then and there.
Posted By: Dan Torkel (Registered) on February 17, 2009 at 02:31 PM
Anthony, what does changing venues have to do with the number of buys for Wrestlemania VII?
Posted By: XL (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 02:58 PM
Where are you seeing this huge buyrate for Wrestlemania VII? Every website I've run into after googling "wrestlemania buyrate" is saying it got a 2.8, which is down from even the Royal Rumble that year, let alone every other Wrestlemania.
Posted By: s1rweeze (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 03:11 PM
"Good job overall, but one thing... who wins the 1993 Rumble?"
yes...
Posted By: Mark (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 03:26 PM
Anthony, what does changing venues have to do with the number of buys for Wrestlemania VII?
Posted By: XL (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 02:58 PM
Nothing. But while we are on the subject, the buyrate for WM7 was lower than the previous 6.
Posted By: Anthony (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 03:46 PM
Personally I hate the bad rap WM IX gets... its NOT that bad... its gotten a bad rap for a lame finish but I think its become "the cool thing" to degrade this show. And thus, most label it the worst WMania because everybody else does.
WManias 2 and IV are worse shows overall...you could argue that 7 was pretty bad... and in retrospect, XI, 13, XV, 2000, and X8 were also questionably booked... yet still IX ends up being almost unanimously voted as the worst...
I strongly disagree. For my money, 2 and IV are clearly worse... IX may be near the bottom of the list, yet I'd definitely not call it the worst.
Thanks
Posted By: Guest#9968 (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 05:01 PM
not bad... i'm impressed.
not that michaels vs. tatanka on paper was that bad, but neither had their a-game. i would've substituted jannety for tatanka, but that would've negated the push tatanka was getting at the time, and i don't think the michaels vs. jannety thing ever had a proper burial. but i still think that this particular ppv is underrated because this was the first wrestlemania that had to step out of the shadow the 80's put upon the 90's. they put on a decent show, even given the fact that EVERYBODY on the roster had an off night. it's not like they had a great roster of talent. they made the most out of what they had regardless of how much better the angles or matches themselves should've been. but you have to give the finish it's due credit on the basis of how unbelievably unprecidented it was at the time, especially for the biggest show of the year. but... you can hardly change the finish without severly altering the future. if bret doesn't drop the title at IX(regardless of who they hotshot the belt to), bret doesn't win king of the ring. if bret doesn't win king of the ring, there's no fued with lawler. if he doesn't fued with lawler, it doesn't set up the match at survivor series that year(regardless of lawler being unable to compete and michaels taking his place). if that doesn't happen, it doesn't set up bret vs. owen.
without the tag match vs. the quebecers at the '94 rumble and it's subsiquent finish, bret probably wouldn't have been put over luger in the dual rumble winner situation. there wouldn't have been a dual winner, it would've just been luger. bret wouldn't have gone on to take the title from yokozuna at X, and would've negated his 2nd title run(the run that his first should've looked like), thus majorly altering history.
Posted By: j22 (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 05:19 PM
The only problem here is that never once do you mention who would WIN the 1993 Royal Rumble or what would become of his title shot at WM9. Maybe Beefcake's beatdown at the hands of Money Inc. could take him out of the Rumble match, and the Beefer could ask Hogan to take his spot, resulting in Hogan winning the Rumble and challenging (unsuccessfully) Bret at 'Mania..?
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 05:49 PM
I think Perfect should have either won or at least put over Luger cleanly, since this is basically where this feud ended.
Crush should of demolished Doink. This match destroyed Crush career. He was fast becoming a fan favorite (and maybe a future main eventer?) He never recovered and all of the gimmick changes he went through after this proves it.
I have to disagree with the guy who said WM 2 is bad. The two tag team matches on that card I feel are underrated classics.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 05:53 PM
i would have hogan return at the rumble and get the win to set up bret - hogan at wm9. I also like the marty - hbk idea for a match and perhaps have razor fighting tatanka instead of backlund.
however as yoko got a monster push at the rumble i would use the macho man against yokozuna with yoko winning in style.
my line up would be-
bret hart - hulk hogan
yokozuna - the macho man
undertaker - gonzalas (rubbish i know)
lex luger - mr perfect
money inc - the steiners
razor ramon - tatanka
doink - crush
shawn michaels - marty janetty (clean hbk win)
Posted By: sitheman (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 06:02 PM
my thought has always been, savage wins the rumble, and puts over Bret in a 25 minute classic. That match would be much better than Bret-Yoko, as Savage could still work. Taker vs Yoko, and the rest can stay the same
Posted By: brs316 (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 06:21 PM
In response to Jason S:
THANK YOU for expressing my sentiment. I was watching the 'Manias in order and I fell asleep watching Mania IV. 4 hours and only one "decent" match (Steamboat/Valentine) in the bunch. That was an AWFUL show and 4 hours of my life that I'll never get back.
Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered) on February 17, 2009 at 07:08 PM
The rumble winner didnt go to wrestlemania until 94
Posted By: Deano (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 07:32 PM
Saying that Bret has to take the WWF Title off of Hogan would give him the better rub I think is false. The old expression goes that keeping the title is harder than winning it.
With Hogan in kayfabe being "better" than Ric Flair one would argue that Hart beating Hogan would be huge especially as champion. Also if he wins it comes as a huge suprise because with Bret holding the title preparing to face Hulk back then it is set up in the fans eyes for Hogan to get the belt back because of the way Hogan was booked throughout his entire career "to defy the odds using the power of Hulkamania" and what not. Also Bret as champion going into the show facing Hulk could have had great build as they could have played up Bret's potential in following in Hulk's footsteps since Hogan "retired" a year earlier. Hogan would obviously be built as "the man" who helped make the WWF what it was up until 1993 much like he was booked the year before at Wrestlemania VIII.
I think personally it would have been the perfect time to turn Hogan heel since his luster was gone or at least make him very heelish since baby face main events were a rarity and avoided.
It could have been easily done with Bret going over and ultimatley gaining "Hulk's respect" as the new guy to lead the WWF. It woulda made huge money and the ending would have been 1993ish and a very classy way to end Wrestlemania IX.
Bret could still lose the belt to Yoko at King Of The Ring. Have Bret defend and keep the belt in the semi main event against Lawler, since he didnt want to be "outshined" as King on the show "named after him", fighting for the title would be a logical move for Lawler. Then have Yoko win the tournament and have Fuji challenge Bret imeediately for the title. Lawler could help Yoko win to extend that feud or have Fuji help Yoko in the way he actually did at IX. This way you set the wheels in motion to have Bret chase for the belt.
MONEY, MONEY, YEAH YEAH!!
Posted By: Justin (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 08:14 PM
The rumble winner didnt go to wrestlemania until 94
Posted By: Deano (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 07:32 PM
Yokozuna won the rumble in 93 and went to face Bret. Not sure if you were reading this article...
Posted By: Guest#9605 (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 11:03 PM
How about re-booking WrestleMania IV as a straight up Wrestling Card, no tournaments. The main event:
WWF Title Match
Ted DiBiase (c) vs. Randy Savage
Build Up: DiBiase wins the title from Hogan on the MAIN EVENT Special in January (instead of February) with help from Andre, Virgil and the evil ref. A few weeks later they have a contract signing for the rematch at Wrestlemania. DiBiase signs first. Andre, DiBiase & Virgil attack Hogan before he can sign the contract, injuring him. Savage makes the save. A week later President Jack Tunney announces that Hogan is too injured to participate at Wrestlemania. Hogan then rambles on about the attack. DiBiase, Andre & Virgil make their way to the ring to gloat. DiBiase even says he can defend the title against Virgil at WM. Hogan angrily grabs the mic from DiBiase and says he has a surprise for DiBiase. Pomp & Circumstance plays and out comes Savage & Elizabeth. Hogan introduces DiBiase to his opponent at WrestleMania IV. Savage quickly signs the contract as DiBiase, Andre & Virgil yell at Tunney and leave the ring enraged. Then at Wrestlemania: Savage def. DiBiase for the title with Andre & Virgil in Ted's corner and Hogan in Savage's. Hogan was leaving for a little while to film No Holds Barred anyway so I don't see the point to even have him wrestle at WMIV.
Posted By: EVIL (Guest) on February 17, 2009 at 11:05 PM
What if Daveyboy had comeback? Im sure that wud of been interesting seeing them fight in a rematch for the title. If people think they know what would of been good for mania lets see them predict a mania 9 card.
Posted By: steven1977 (Guest) on February 18, 2009 at 07:57 AM
Frizost - Tapping was not around back at WM IX. Verbal submission only!
Posted By: T-Mac (Guest) on February 18, 2009 at 08:11 AM
How bout a Undertaker vs. Bret Hart wrestlemania? Taker would win the Rumble, then the belt, and that would set up for their future matches at the 96 Rumble, and esp Summerslam 97. McMahon relied on them heavily to carry the company. I liked the Mr. Perfect vs. Shawn Michaels idea, that would have been a great match. And Bret Hart didn't put the WWF in a slump he was an awesome champion and wore the belt better than anybody, plus the other wrestlers looked up to him and respected him behind the scene. The steroid scandel, lack of talent and later WCW's formation of the nWo which helped WCW ratings skyrocket and almost impossible to catch until '98 is what kept the WWF down. Hogan vs. Hart would be a dream match it's too bad it didn't happen and although his name himself brings a big draw, I think if Hogan didn't want to pass the torch and job to Bret the WWF should have just released him and focused on more committed newer talent (Hogan was one of my fav wrestlers when I say this too). As far as belts go, Hart loses to Taker at WMIX, Taker loses to Yoko at the Rumble, co-winner Rumble still even though nobody wanted Luger as champion(he was somewhat popular for his mere patriotic stance than as a wrestler), and Hart defeat Yoko at WMX. That way Yoko has from October '92 and all of '93 to be built up as a top heal squashing the competition until you pretty much have to put the belt on him, then the Hitman finally brings him down.
Posted By: Brett Wangsness (Guest) on February 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM
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