Ask 411 Wrestling 04.06.11: Cena Heel Turn, WCW Belt, Shaq, and more!

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Ask 411 Wrestling. I am, of course, NOT Matt Sforcina. I am instead his American equivalent, Ryan Byers, and I’ll be filling in for Matty-Boom-Batty for the entire month of April while he tends to some personal matters that he’ll tell you about if he deems it appropriate. I’ve filled in for Matt several times in the past now, and, when I do, about half of the feedback says that 5,000x better than the Aussie has ever been and about half of the feedback says that I’m the dirt worst person to ever write Ask 411. So, for those of you who fall into the former group, I’m glad to be back. For those of you who fall into the latter group, I’m deeply sorry.

Anyway, BANNER!

And what’s a good BANNER! without a good TWITTER!?

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Backtalking

No Backtalking this week, as I really don’t like the idea of responding to feedback for something that somebody else has written. However, when and if I screw something up this week, you can feel free to lambaste me in the comments or via e-mail and I will respond to it here next week.

Your Turn, Smart Guy

I’m a former WWE Tag Team Champion who has had significant legal trouble but recovered to seek political office later in life. In addition to that, when I wrestled overseas, I had a ring name which I never really used in the United States that I stole from a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.

Who am I?

Questions, Questions, Who’s Got the Questions?

Greg T. kicks my run off right by asking a question involving a ridiculous amount of research:

I apologize ahead of time for the legwork, but which Wrestlemania features the most WWE world champs (past, present, and future)? My guess would be WMXX with 23, almost every match has a world champ or two in it. I ask because it’s interesting to me just how varied the WWE world champs have been in the last 27 years.

Well, Greg, you got the right answer, but I question your work a little bit. By my count, it is in fact Wrestlemania XX that has the most past and future WWE world champions on the card. (By “WWE world champions,” I mean people who have held the belts currently referred to as the WWE Title and World Heavyweight Title, respectively.) However, I count 21 champs on the show and not 23. I suppose that if you throw the WWE version of the ECW Title into the mix you could get a couple more bodies to bump that up, but, really, does anybody consider that championship to be on the same level as the WWE Title/World Heavyweight Title anymore?

‘Mania XX is actually the only version of the show that has over twenty major champs on it. If you look through the history of the event, most of the early Manias have six to eight former champions on the card and then, around the time of Wrestlemania XVII the number jumps so that the average is around fifteen. Not surprisingly, the Wrestlemania with the lowest number of world champs in the first Wrestlemania, where only three men who have held the big prize (Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, and the Iron Sheik) are in the card.

You want to know what was really difficult about compiling these statistics? Remembering to count Justin “Hawk” Bradshaw and Blackjack Bradshaw. It’s hard to believe that guy, of all people, became a long-reigning WWE Champion.

Trashy actually has some class, contrary to popular belief:

Wasn’t there an incident where Bret went off on a swearing tirade against Vince live on Raw? I believe he had just lost to Sid in a cage match and was screaming as they began dismantling the cage.
One reason I remember it was since I was on the US west coast and we got Raw on tape delay, I was surprised it was left in.

You are correct, that did occur, specifically on the March 17, 1997 edition of Monday Night Raw, which was the go-home show for that year’s Wrestlemania. Sid Vicious was the WWF Champion, and he defended the title against Bret Hart in a steel cage match. Steve Austin, who was scheduled to face Hart at Mania, tried to interfere and actually HELP his rival win so that he could receive a title match the following Sunday. However, Austin’s interference backfired and caused the Hitman to lose to Sid, which is what resulted in the tirade during the cage deconstruction. Bret even shoved down Vince McMahon during the tantrum, which occurred well before McMahon was getting roughed up on an almost weekly basis.

The reason that the swearing and whatnot was left in on the west coast feed was because it was a planned part of the show designed to look more like a “shoot” than a lot of the other segments on wrestling TV those days. (Some thought that it was a legit meltdown at the time, but, if you listen to what Hart is yelling about, it’s all kayfabe stuff.) The segment, in which the Hitman complained heavily about how everybody in the World Wrestling Federation was trying to screw him over, foreshadowed the heel turn that would occur during the famous Wrestlemania match with Steve Austin and the awesome bad guy persona that he would carry with him until he left the company following that year’s Survivor Series.

Tidmore knows possession is 9/10 of the law:

Here’s a question for you. Does anyone know where the last WCW title physically is?

The “title” isn’t physically anywhere, because a “title” or a “championship” is an abstract concept. What you’re probably asking about is the title belt, which is a tangible object capable of taking up physical space and is used to represent the title.

(I’m kidding, I’m kidding. That’s just meant as a semi-rant about how ridiculous it is that WWE has banned their announcers from using the word “belt.”)

Anyway, this is one question that has me pretty well stumped. My understanding is that the original “Big Gold Belt,” which started off representing the NWA World Heavyweight Title, was still in play at least as late as 1992, when Ric Flair took it with him to the World Wrestling Federation and ultimately had to return it upon settling his legal issues with World Championship Wrestling. I have heard some talk of the original belt being replaced with a smaller version or a replica around the time of the 2000 incident where Vince Russo and Hulk Hogan “shot” at each other during WCW’s Bash at the Beach pay per view. However, I do not know where the original would’ve gone afterwards or whether it was even the original that had been replaced.

Most likely, though, unless the original belt fell into the possession of a wrestler somewhere along the way, it is sitting in some WWE storage locker given that they acquired all of the assets of WCW in 2001 and that belt would have been one of the assets if WCW still possessed it. The original belt certainly isn’t the one with a similar design used today for WWE’s version of the World Heavyweight Title, as that belt features a modern WWE logo emblazoned across the classic Big Gold Belt design.

If any readers can provide more details, feel free to drop a comment down below or shoot me an e-mail.

Jeff is on the road again:

Took my son to a WWE house show last night in State College PA for the first time in 20 years or so (his first!). I got to thinking afterward, we hear so much about Vince running the show from the back (or Triple H now, I guess) for the pay-per-views and TV feeds. Who is actually in charge at the smaller non-televised house shows? I mean, someone has to ultimately be the go-to guy, even for things like what to do if a talent is late or if more security is needed, or if two wrestlers get into a fight or something backstage. Who runs the show with enough stroke as Vince so that everyone listens when he/she gives an order? Thanks again!

Great to hear that you got your son out to a show. It’s a hell of a way to bond with your kids, and we sure need the next generation of wrestling fans to come from somewhere!

My understanding is that house shows are run by a rotating crew of road agents employed by WWE. At this point in time, that group includes former wrestlers such as Arn Anderson, Steve Lombardi, Dean Malenko, Mike Rotundo, Barry Windham, and even Jamie Noble.

If you keep a close eye on things when you’re at a house show, you can usually see one or more of those men hanging out either at ringside or in the aisles watching matches. Because house shows matches are often dry runs for things that the company wants to try out on pay per view or television and/or places where young talents have their first opportunities to work longer matches, the agents who are on the road regularly issue reports that go to Vince and the top brass about the quality of the shows and how certain things got over so that the folks in charge can keep tabs on things.

Jon from the Illadelph (whatever that is) has a question:

I was watching the 93 Royal Rumble where Yokozuna eliminated Savage to win. For starters, that had to be the LAMEST ending to a rumble match EVER. Savage knocks Yoko down with a series of flying ax handles from the top rope. He then inexplicably GOES FOR A PIN. Yoko kicks out and in the process throws Savage over the top rope to win. My question is… is there a backstory as to why it went down that way, That couldn’t have been the way they planned it… could they?

I’m virtually certain that was the planned finish, no matter how lame that it may have looked to you. If you watch the match, Savage was clearly exerting a lot of effort to get himself up and over the top rope, so it wasn’t accident, and it’s not as though any injuries or other limitations of the performers forced them into a situation where they had to do the finish that way.

Granted, Savage going for a pin was a little bit weird given that he wasn’t exactly a rookie and the battle royale wouldn’t exactly have been a new concept to him. However, I think the idea behind the finish was to make Yoko look as strong as humanly possible. Savage did just hit a series of flying axe handles. Immediately before Yoko tosses him, the Macho Man actually connects with the big flying elbow, his finishing maneuver. After that he goes for the pin and gets bench pressed out of the ring. From watching the footage back, it appears that the whole point was for Yokozuna to look like an unstoppable beast because he not only took Randy Savage’s legendary finisher and was still fighting but also because, after taking that move, he managed to catapult the Macho Man high up into the air and over the top rope.

Oftentimes the simplest explanation is the correct one, and I have a feeling that’s what we have a case of here. The simplest explanation is that the finish they did was the finish they planned, and there’s no real evidence to the contrary.

Greg T. is rude to the rudos:

What is the kayfabe reasoning for a heel to compete in a twenty minute match, only to cheat at the very end to win? Do some heels (*gasp*) actually have confidence in their ability to win?

That would depend on the specific heel and the specific match. Sometimes, the story is that the heel wants to wrestle the match clean (or as clean as a heel ever does) and gets so frustrated with his inability to beat the babyface that he just hauls off and pops him with a chair or starts blatantly choking him. Sometimes, the story is that the heel has intentionally worn down the babyface for an extended period of time with his solo efforts and then has a bunch of his buddies run in so that he can really put a hurting on him. Sometimes the story is that the heel has been cheating throughout the entire match but finally does something heinous or has finally committed so many infractions of the rules that the official has no choice but to bring the match to an end.

Of course, these days there are also plenty of situations where a heel wrestles a straight match for twenty minutes and then gets disqualified in the end with no explanation whatsoever, just because the people putting the show together wanted to do a DQ finish and a long match and couldn’t figure out a way for them not to be in the same segment. I have a feeling that’s what Greg was referring to, though just because that’s the current trend it doesn’t mean that all DQ’s after a lengthy bout are nonsensical.

Ossie (OI!) would like to rumble in a royal fashion:

I was wondering how much scripting goes into a battle royal? Obviously the winner is predetermined, and probably the last 4 or 5. Beyond that, are the wrestlers pretty much free to ad-lib the order of elimination, or is there a structure? What about in say the Royal Rumble: I’d imagine that Vince has at least determined the exact order of entry from 1 to 30, as well as the last 4 or 5 and maybe a long spot – “Rick Martel, you’re going 45 minutes, Bushwacker Luke, you’re coming in & getting tossed right back out in 1 second for comedy value……” etc. But do they plan the exact elimination order from start to finish, or is it partially up to the wrestlers? I’m asking because obviously it would be hard for 30 guys to wing it without knowing roughly where they are supposed to fit in the entire match.

My understanding is that things are essentially how you describe them. Key spots are planned out in advance and wrestlers are sent with instructions regarding the highlights of the match, whether it’s somebody getting the vaunted “Diesel push,” two wrestlers who are being built up for a future singles match staring each other down, or the comic relief spot of a wrestler getting tossed out as soon as he hits the ring. However, the exact order of elimination is a bit up for grabs outside of those specific spots, and they’re certainly not micromanaging which wrestler ties up with whom and when.

The other aspect of putting the match together that a lot of people don’t necessarily think of is the fact that there are usually several referees surrounding the ring during a battle royale. As with normal matches, the refs are wearing earpieces allowing them to get messages from officials in the back, which they can relay to the wrestlers. This is particularly helpful in a match where there are so many bodies and where there’s a lot of room for error and potential mistakes to cover up.

(In a related and interesting side note, there were reports which came out after this year’s Royal Rumble match which indicated that the staredown between Diesel and the Big Show after Nash’s elimination was not a planned spot but rather one that somebody backstage came up with and communicated to the wrestlers through a referee after Diesel got a large reaction that might justify bringing him back.)

Little Naitch throws us a softball:

Do you have any information about Honky Tonk Man’s girlfriend Peggy Sue? Who was she, where did she come from, why did she leave and where is she now?

Peggy Sue was “Sensational” Sherri Martel in a blonde wig. There’s really not much more to the story than that. I’m assuming that you know what happened to Sensational Sherri, but, in case you don’t, her professional wrestling career basically came to an end when her late 1990’s run with WCW wrapped up. She was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2006 in her last real appearance in the major leagues, and, in 2007, she was found dead as the result of a drug overdose.

Darren has a question that just won’t rest in peace:

One thing has always made me wonder during wwe tributes to fallen wrestlers or retirements (Owen Hart, Eddie, Flair etc.) I understand kayfabe and trying to keep with it but I have never seen the Undertaker out there during it. I know they build him as a dead man and tough and all that, but in these sad events you see the true emotions of wrestlers heel or not, why can’t undertaker be out there? Does he just sit in the back during it while everyone else is out there? In these rare occurrences heel or faces it just dosent matter at the end of the day in my opinion.

Regardless of how you feel, the Undertaker isn’t out there because the Undertaker doesn’t want to be out there. Does part of it have to do with wanting to maintain his character? I’m sure it does. However, when you’re talking about something truly serious like a tribute to a dead wrestler, I’m not going to say that anybody should be forced to attend if they don’t want to. People mourn in a variety of different ways. Some people want to be among friends and family when somebody close to them dies. Some people want to be left alone completely. Some people go to funerals. There are other people who can’t stand funerals and won’t be seen at one no matter who has passed. Given that, I’m not going to fault Undertaker for not appearing at those events. It’s not my place to. He should be allowed to deal with the deaths in the manner that he deems the most appropriate, just as we should allow any individual to do.

Plus, regardless of the above, there’s something that I find just a tad insensitive about having a guy who plays a character that is essentially a zombie or a mortician (depending on the year) hanging out during a serious ceremony for somebody who has just tragically died.

New Zealand’s third biggest rap star, Steve, writes:

In regards to the ten-man main event of Survivor Series 2001, what was the (non-kayfabe) reason that Big Show replaced Vince McMahon? I mean, other than the obvious reason that Big Show is a, you know, actual wrestler.

This goes back to one of the earlier answers in which I stated that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. They pulled Vince McMahon out of the match and replaced him with the Big Show because the Big Show is an actual wrestler and a match in which the stakes were that high was going to work out a lot better with an actual wrestler in that position as opposed to a then-fifty-six year old man. (Granted, Shane McMahon was still in the match, but it’s easier to work around one non-wrestler than it is two, and Shane was athletic enough that he could hide his shortcomings as an in-ring performer.)

Another reason could’ve been a desire to rebuild the Big Show, who, for those of you who don’t remember, spent the majority of the Invasion angle as a complete and utter jobber in a miserable tag team with Billy Gunn. (Yes, the Show Gunns.) Putting him into the main event and having him go toe-to-toe with top guys while being portrayed as an equal to the Undertaker or Kane put him back on the level of a main event wrestler, a push that continued through early 2002 when he had a series of matches against Steve Austin in a role as Ric Flair’s hired gun.

My Damn Opinion

Mike from Palatine wants to bring a new Irishman to WWE:

I know most people are going to groan at this but just think about it. If Shaq announces his retirement from basketball in June after the playoffs I think the WWE should sign him for like a nine month deal. Hear me out . . . they make a secret deal where Shawn would train him in secrecy until the Royal Rumble in 2012 where he makes an unexpected appearance in the Rumble. He does relatively okay until some mid card or high mid card Raw wrestler eliminates him.

So for the next month he chastises and gloats and makes fun of Shaq cause he took him out finally in February Shawn makes an unexpected appearance on Raw and we have a stare down between Shawn and the wrestler. This all lead up to a match at Wrestlemania in 2012. Their match would be in the middle of the show.

I know people hate gimmick matches but he has the talent for the mic and to do promos. I enjoyed his appearance as a Raw host a while back. I mean he may give us some gold promos. I mean who can forget him asking Kobe how his ass tastes. Plus if he trains in secrecy from June to January who knows how well he would do wrestling. I know this is a big if but I think it would probably bring in some seats. Some people may get annoyed with seeing him on TV for three months but there has been worse with Floyd and from what I heard LT did not do that bad against Bam Bam Bieglow.

I think that, overall, the idea of getting Shaquille O’ Neal to wrestle a match, especially at Wrestlemania, is a great one. There are always going to be a few smart marks who complain about that sort of match, but the fact of the matter is that the goal of pro wrestling is to make money, and, when used correctly, celebrities have made wrestling a lot of money. The first Wrestlemania was built on the backs of Mr. T and Cyndi Lauper, and the most successful ‘Mania in history was headlined not by a wrestler but rather by Donald Trump.

I think that your scenario could work, but I would tweak two things. The first is that I would NEVER have Shaq appear on a wrestling show, especially in the Royal Rumble, as a surprise. As noted above, the point of professional wrestling is to make money. If you have something that is more likely to make people buy a show – like, for example, the in-ring debut of Shaq – you shouldn’t make it a surprise when you could just as easily advertise it in advance. The second tweak is that I wouldn’t necessarily have Shawn Michaels do the training. Granted, HBK has produced some great students, including Bryan Danielson and Spanky. However, he doesn’t currently have a training camp up and running, which might handicap his ability to train one student. I would perhaps instead send him to a camp that is up and running and has a reputation for producing good wrestlers, perhaps Ohio Valley with Danny Davis and Rip Rogers, Harley Race’s World League Wrestling, or the Funkin’ Conservatory of Dory Funk, Jr. Heck, even though it doesn’t have a long track record yet, Lance Storm’s school would also probably be a good option.

Otherwise, yes, absolutely, WWE should probably do everything in its power to line up Shaq for next year’s Wrestlemania.

Greg is a three-time champion at the international Tom Selleck look-alike competition:

How big could Magnum TA have been if it weren’t for his career ending injury? He was a solid wrestler,the ladies loved him and he had amazing charisma. Could he have been WCW’s answer to Hogan?

I think that Magnum TA could have been a very big babyface and could have headlined for Jim Crockett promotions for quite some time. However, I don’t know that I would put him on the level of Hulk Hogan. He was a solid promo but didn’t quite have the charisma of the Hulkster, and, though he was obviously in shape, he didn’t quite have the freakish physique of Hogan, which was very unique at the time and a big part of what made him stand out as a top flight attraction. Plus, as much as I hate to make this a factor, there was something very “southern” about Magnum for lack of a better term. He was definitely a good old boy, and there is something about that sort of persona which doesn’t always play well in major northern media markets like New York and Chicago. If you don’t work out in markets like that, you’re pretty well sunk.

However, Magnum definitely could have become somebody like Sting or Randy Savage on the next tier down from Hogan.

Anonymous wants to kill the goose that laid the golden egg:

I’m curious as to how you would book a John Cena heel turn. Me, I always pictured he’d end the Undertaker’s streak, but you?

It’s a bit difficult to answer this question, because I honestly don’t think that John Cena should be turning heel at this point. The guy is still consistently drawing in television ratings at roughly the same level he always has as a main eventer, and he’s still moving a ton of merchandise. In my mind, you should hold off on the heel turn until his popularity starts to dip a little bit, because it’s the kind of thing that could bump him back up to the pre-dip levels or even make him more of a draw. Because I can’t say what the WWE landscape would look like at the time that John Cena’s heel turn would make sense, it’s hard for me to say exactly how I would book it.

With that being said, if I were going to turn John Cena heel in a WWE where things look roughly like they do now, it would go a little bit like this:

I would start the heel turn with a match being booked between Cena and an up-and-coming babyface, somebody who isn’t on the level of Cena or Randy Orton but somebody who is just a few steps shy of being there and needs a couple more accomplishments to put him over the top. Almost any babyface in that position could work, though if you were going to have this scenario play out in present day, John Morrison would probably be ideal and I think you could get Kofi Kingston there in a couple of months with a more consistent push. For the sake of clarity in my writing, I will use Morrison’s name, but, as I said, you could do this same basic storyline with a lot of different guys who are at the same level as Morrison.

The match would be on free television and would not be particularly noteworthy at first. There would need to be a good kayfabe explanation as to why this babyface-babyface matchup was happening seemingly out of nowhere. For example, it could be a part of a tournament or a Beat the Clock challenge where they just happen to be paired together. There would be no animosity between the two headed into the match and no reason to believe that the match would lead to anything after it takes place.

In the match, Morrison would pin John Cena cleanly. It would not be a straight, decisive pin with his finisher, but rather it would be the result of a rollup or catching Cena off guard with a rarely used maneuver. After the bell, Cena is surprised that he’s been beat but plays it off like he’s not upset and shakes Morrison’s hand. However, on the next show, Cena cuts a promo in which he says that he would like a rematch against Morrison a couple of weeks down the road because he thinks he can beat him and wants to prove it. Perhaps in the buildup to the second match, Cena makes an offhand comment about the first win being a “fluke” or something less than an indication that Morrison was the better man, which could result in Morrison taking some offense -though nothing to the level that would result in either man turning away from a babyface role. Also in the weeks leading up to the second match (which would preferably be on pay per view), Cena and Morrison would have matches against other opponents, which they would both win cleanly and convincingly.

When match number two between Cena and Morrison occurs, both of them continue to work as straight up babyfaces. After a series of close nearfalls where each man comes close to winning the match, Morrison would finally seize an opportunity to hit one of his trademark moves and would win the match with it. In the weeks after the second Cena/Morrison match, Cena would make mention that he is frustrated with his inability to beat Morrison but still wouldn’t quite turn.

All of this would lead to a third match between the two wrestlers, preferably on free television. The match should get a fair amount of time. Cena would wrestle a “rougher” style than what he normally does, not necessarily breaking the rules but also not giving a lot of clean breaks and generally being fairly aggressive. The rougher style puts him in the driver’s seat for most of the match and Morrison even appears to be injured at one point. Cena takes advantage of the injury for all it is worth and targets the bad body part, but he still can’t do quite enough to put Morrison away. In the final minutes of the match, Morrison is getting in virtually no offense, but he is still managing to kick out of everything that Cena throws at him.

Finally, John Cena has had enough. He’s reached his boiling point and breaks down, grabbing a chair or some other foreign object and blatantly brutalizing Morrison with it in front of the referee. Cena is disqualified and Morrison technically beats him again, but the real story this week is that John Cena’s frustration and jealousy has pushed him over the edge and turned him into a full-fledged bad guy. Due to his “injuries,” Morrison stays off of television or about a month and a half while heel Cena has a feud with another babyface, which he wins in the end. All the while, the announcers are still talking about Morrison and there are plenty of vignettes hyping his rehab and training to return to the ring. At the end of the month and a half, Morrison would make a triumphant return and start the build to the first heel/face match between himself and Cena.

That’s how I’d do it, anyway. I think that there are two manager benefits of going this route. The first is that, by playing Cena off of somebody who the fans are willing to accept as a main eventer (but haven’t really done so just yet) you kill some of the possibility that Cena’s die-hard fans will continue to support him after the heel turn or the possibility that the current Cena haters will turn into Cena supporters. (Because, let’s face it, Cena’s last heel character had a fair number of people giving him a face reaction.) The second is that, instead of accomplishing the singular goal of turning Cena heel, a storyline like this one simultaneously accomplishes two goals, i.e. turning Cena heel AND elevating a new babyface from the upper midcard to the main event level.

And, with that obnoxiously long bit of fantasy booking, we are done for the week. I will be back in seven days. In the meantime, shoot some questions my way while Matt is out of town, because I need to pad out the list of questions that the Aussie gave to me.