2 Raw, 2 Furious 09.14.09

Posted by Ryan Byers on 09.15.2009

It's the end of an era. Yes, Chavo Guerrero, Jr. vs. Hornswoggle is no more. Leave the memories alone.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to 2 Raw, 2 Furious, the weekly column in which Chris Lansdell of If I Can Be Serious for a Minute and I take a real-time look at all of the shenanigans which occur on World Wrestling Entertainment's flagship program.

Last week, we were headed in to Breaking Point, the submission-heavy pay per view which featured John Cena putting on a classic performance against Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase picking up the biggest win of their young careers. Though the Raw setting it up wasn't exactly the best, the pay per view delivered big time in many ways . . . will this edition of MNR keep the momentum going?



Pre-Show Scuttlebutt

Chris: How many Patrick Swayze references can we work in to the column tonight?
Ryan: Am I missing something? Why would we want to work in Patrick Swayze references?
Chris: He died.
Ryan: ah, haven't caught that story yet.
Chris: It's on the site.
Ryan: I honestly cannot recall seeing him in a single movie.
Chris: Dirty Dancing? Roadhouse? Ghost?
Ryan: Okay, I guess I did watch Dirty Dancing in high school when I had a girlfriend who was obsessed with it. I never saw the other two.
Chris: That's how most men saw Dirty Dancing. Ghost too, but I guess you lucked out there . . . like me with Titanic.
Ryan: I saw a lot of parodies of Ghost . . . does that count?
Chris: Did they have Swayze in them?
Ryan: No, not that I recall.
Chris: Then they do not.
Ryan: I can also honestly say that I have never seen Titanic.
Chris: I thought I was the only one who had avoided Titanic.
Ryan: No, I have a history of actually putting my foot down with significant others when it comes to things like that.
Chris: I have never seen a single movie with Leonardo DiCaprio in it.
Ryan: I definitely remember seeing Catch Me If You Can. I believe I saw the version of Romeo & Juliet he did and possibly What's Eating Gilbert Grape or at least parts of it. Titanic got him an undeserved rep as a teenybopper whose career is based only on his looks, but he does have some serious acting chops.
Chris: Quite possibly.
Ryan: Plus you've got to love that ZERO1 decided to book Kendrick as "Leonardo Spanky" when he first came in, complete with dance remix of "My Heart Will Go On" as his entrance music.
Chris: I remember reading about that. There IS a passing resemblance
Ryan: Moreso when Kendrick was younger and thinner. Yes, younger readers, he was actually THINNER at one point.
Chris: Of course if Kendrick could ACT as well as Leo, he might be a former champion now.
Ryan: He is a former champion! How soon they forget the scramble match.
Chris: The rules of which clearly state that interim title runs do not count as title runs
Ryan: Which really wasn't made clear until AFTER the pay per view.
Chris: Let me bask in the glory of being right instead of you for a change!
Ryan: All I know is that, somewhere out there on the internet is a screen capture from the pay per view displaying a chyron that reads "Current WWE Champion: The Brian Kendrick." Don't you try to take those glorious sixteen seconds away from me, mac.



Dave Makes an Announcement

Chris: Ladies and gentlemen, only in 2R2F can the conversation progress from Patrick Swayze to Brian Kendrick.
Ryan: And on from that to Batista's bionic arm.
Chris: They have the technology. They can rebuild him.
Ryan: Wrestling already has one Steve Austin. We don't need another.
Chris: Okay, so Batista's not retiring.
Ryan: I never really thought that. Perhaps he's just jumping to Smackdown.
Chris: Well he SAYS he's retiring. I give it two minutes until Orton.
Ryan: You know, I've been interested in this for a while, but I figure I'll pose it now while Orton saunters down the ring . . . why in the world is his logo a gas mask?
Chris: Cue smart guy joke about him stinking. As far as his entrance goes, I do believe that's three weeks in a row hitting the timing on the button. I need to buy a lottery ticket.
Ryan: Truly, you are the IWC's Nostradamus.
Chris: He never said he was retiring, he just said he was saying goodbye.
Ryan: Exactly.

(Batista announce that he's headed for Smackdown.)

Ryan: Well, that's one prediction for you and one prediction for me.
Chris: I think we called that last week. Smackdown desperately needs a top-level name and Batista has no fresh feuds on Raw.
Ryan: Absolutely. This makes perfect sense, and I think the world is ready for some more awesome Taker-Dave matches.
Chris: Feels good to be able to say that. The problem I have is that it doesn't make much sense in storyline terms.
Ryan: Yeah, one would think that he would like to stick around on Raw to get a bit more revenge on Orton and his cronies . . . but perhaps they'll give him enough tonight in this match.
Chris: He's already beaten Cena, HHH, and HBK, so Orton is really the only person that he has left to beat.
Ryan: He has beaten Orton, for the title, no less . . . in about seven minutes flat.
Chris: Yes, but Orton leads the feud. All the others he has a leg-up on. Orton put him on the shelf twice.
Ryan: Which brings us back to what I said.

Oh! It's Time to Rock and Roll! This Time Trish is in Control!

Ryan: Huh . . . Cole puts over Tortono as the home of WMVXII but not WMVI. Is that a sign of the crowd getting younger or a sign of them not wanting to give any level of credit to Hogan because he's got a new promotion?
Chris: It's a different building.
Ryan: Right, but they were talking about the city, not the building.

Chris: Trish is a brunette?????
Ryan: ahhh, reminding me of one of my favorite segments of the Mickie feud, when Stratus came out dressed as Mickie after weeks of Mickie dressing like Trish.
Chris: She doesn't want to toot her own horn . . . but I have one she can toot.
Ryan: Wow, heat for the Bob Barker reference. The crowd last week loved him . . . I guess that matches up with our reactions to the show.
Chris: That's because we have our fingers on the pulse.
Ryan: The Inside Pulse?
Chris: No, we have our heels on that.

Kofi Kingston & Primo Colon vs. Jack Swagger & Mike "The Miz" Mizanin

Ryan: Trish isn't getting the reaction I thought she would.
Chris: Kofi got a nice pop, though.
Ryan: I'm a bit surprised that he's still the champion after last night. I'm glad, but I'm a bit surprised.
Chris: So in case you missed lasy night, his legdrop has now officially been named the boomdrop.
Ryan: huh . . . that reminds me a bit too much of a long song by a little band known as the Flight of the Conchords.
Chris: Aren't they that New Zealand comedy group?
Ryan: Indeed they are. And they're awesome.



Chris: It's the special ed gorilla! And we might just have the whole Mr PotatoHead midcard in one match.

Chris: Did you notice that Kofi hit a ranhei last night? AND AGAIN TONIGHT!
Ryan: I missed that . . . well, last night.
Chris: He hits it well too.

Ryan: And it looks like we now have two official contenders for the US Title.
Chris: Swagger's been kind of anonymous on Raw though. I'm not feeling him as a threat.
Ryan: I like the potential dynamic of Kofi having to overcome the odds in a three way against two heels.
Chris: Especially when we just teased a little tension between them.
Ryan: I feel bad for poor Primo being left out in the cold, but at least he hasn't been canned yet.

Winner: Jack Swagger & Mike the Miz via pinfall
Ryan: For the last several weeks, Landsell and I have been complaining about the fact that the midcard guys on Raw are essentially interchangeable, trading wins and losses with nobody having a decided advantage, nobody breaking out, and nobody looking like a star. I suppose that if there is one positive aspect of this setup it is that the current crop of midcard guys is becoming very familiar with one another in the ring. As a result, their matches are becoming more entertaining, even if they are not resulting in anybody being elevated. This was a perfectly acceptable tag team affair for the time allotted, with Primo in particular highlighting the fact that he has among the best basics on the Raw roster. **

Alicia Fox vs. Gail Kim for the number one contendership to the Divas Title

Chris: Awww, Mickie and Trish have matching hair.
Ryan: Alicia vs. Gail . . . this could get real ugly, real quick.
Chris: That's not a good sign for Gail, no pop until Lillian said Toronto.

Ryan: JESUS. Somebody tell Alicia that you're not supposed to take bumps on your ass.
Chris: She almost killed Gail on the rana too.
Ryan: She's begging for back issues.
Chris: Alicia has some skills, though, I'm not cringing watching her.
Ryan: She hit a good looking northern lights suplex, I'll give you that. Alicia's got good natural athleticism but appears to still be working on getting that to translate to pro wrestling.
Chris: She seems to have an aptitude though, unlike some Jackie Gaydas I can name.
Ryan: It was scary in the opening, but this is turning around.

Ryan: "Kick to the back of the neck" . . . Cole really just needs to call things like they really are instead of calling them what they're supposed to be. That was clearly across the back.
Chris: Oh damn, that axe kick looked better with her doing it than Booker ever managed in WWE
Ryan: Well, Booker was trying to protect guys and it looked like Alicia just blasted Gail as hard as she could. That may be the difference between doing it over the head like Booker would and doing it in the back where Alicia is and where it's safer to nail people.
Chris: I'd just like to point out that Gail Kim channeled Kevin von Erich on that crossbody from the top.
Ryan: Indeed. That's probably the best Gail has looked since returning to WWE . . . definitely the best she's looked since she moved over to Raw.
Chris: For sure. And I'm about ready to give Alicia a seal of approval.
Ryan: Ehhh . . . those first few spots were enough to keep me from going gaga over her, but smooth that out and I'll be on board.
Chris: I'm not anointing her the next Trish, but I'd rather watch her wrestle than Kelly Kelly, the Bellas, Jenna Morasca, or Sharmell.
Ryan: Oh god yes. She's light years head of the Bellas. Khali might be better than the Bellas.

Winner: Alicia Fox via pinfall
Ryan: Chris and I basically covered this one with our comments above. Alicia Fox is coming along nicely as WWE television wrestler, and Gail Kim, who has seriously underwhelmed in her second WWE run, came off looking better here than she has at any point in recent memory. Of course, the fact that the match was a quickie precludes it from getting too many snowflakes, but, aside from the opening pair of spots, it was perfectly acceptable wrestling. *

An Odd Follow-Up to Raw, an Orton/Batista Package, and Jericho/Beth/Trish Meet

Chris: I have a question: how the hell do you show Borat on TV in the US? After editing it would be like 40 minutes long.
Ryan: I have no clue what they'll be doing with Borat, though they're letting cable networks get away with more and more these days.

Ryan: Hey, a Manu cameo!
Chris: Wow, I guess he wasn't useless!

Ryan: You know, watching them stand in this shot together, I would love to see Beth Phoenix team up with Jericho and Show.
Chris: Now I remember why Trish used to be awesome.
Ryan: She's been on all night.
Chris: And she may actually be hotter as a brunette.
Ryan: I would tend to concur with this.
Ryan: "Okay, that's good to know." PERFECT reaction to Jericho's line.
Chris: She can host every week.

Random Breaking Point Discussion

Ryan: They have really been putting this DX/Legacy match over hard as something important.
Ryan: That's exactly what was needed.
Chris: Sure. They have to, so that when DX kill them in a cell next month it doesn't hurt so much.
Ryan: ha, well, that's one way of looking at it.
Chris: I thoroughly enjoyed that match last night.
Ryan: I hope Legacy works that double submission spot in to the their regular repertoire for big matches. It's fairly awesome looking.
Chris: The whole PPV did something that not many WWE efforts have done recently . . . gave me memorable moments.
Ryan: Yeah, Cena/Orton delivered as well.
Chris: Much like Cena himself, there's a really strong division on that match
Ryan: The Punk/Taker finish I could have done without, but there had to be something screwy going on.
Chris: I liked the Dusty finish. The screwjob, not so much.
Ryan: I don't think that Undertaker should have won, and I don't think that Punk should have won clean . . . but there definitely would have been better ways to go about that.
Chris: I can't see a way that didn't require Taker tapping or passing out.
Ryan: I'd actually be fine with a situation in which you got somebody to run in on Punk's behalf and there was a legitimate non-finish. The match just ends with the run-in. Generally I HATE that finish, but it would have been better than the Montreal finish and I don't know what other realistic option they had.
Chris: But who would that be?
Ryan: Who is a fine question. They probably would have to have brought in somebody new or alligned Punk and Kane. Former ECW tag team partners, IIRC.
Chris: Well, tis done now.

Ted DiBiase, Jr. w/ Cody Rhodes vs. Shawn Michaels w/ Triple H

Chris: Wow, how many people would be allowed to mock DX's entrance?
Ryan: Usually just DX.

Ryan: What the hell is going on with DiBiase's ear? I would guess cauliflower, but what pro wrestler develops that in 2009?
Chris: It looks like it was sliced off and scotch-taped back on.
Ryan: Well, at least it'll make him stand out!

Chris: Okay, I want to throw this out there now as it just popped into my head . . . I feel a double cross tonight. Batista aligns with Orton.
Ryan: Yeah, that I predicted last week. I think that it's still a possibility, but I'm not as confident as I was seven days ago. Dave is needed on SD.
Chris: He is, and he will still go.
Ryan: Then what exactly does an alliance with Orton do for anybody?
Chris: It sets up an interpromotional for Mania, it furthers the Orton-Cena hatred, it turns Batista for a feud with Morrison, Mysterio and Taker . . . and Batista has been a face solidly since he won the Rumble.

Chris: I bet Ted didn't learn that dropkick from his dad.
Ryan: No, he wasn't exactly a dropkick throwing guy. I seem to recall a few in his earlier stuff, but none from the Million Dollar Man era.

Chris: It's hilarious how a Canadian crowd has a shit fit every time Shawn gets a double leg.

Ryan: Wow, Cole brings the continuity acknowledging Shawn's past eye problems. Either that was an uncharacteristically good call for him, or he was fed the line.
Chris: Did someone flick a switch at WWE or something? Continuity, new moves, good wrestling . . .
Ryan: They've been capable of all of that for a while, but things seem to have really been clicking for the last twenty-four hours or so.

Chris: I've seen some commenters over those twenty-four hours saying that Canadian crowds will let go of Montreal as soon as Vince does.
Ryan: I would tend to agree with that. Out of sight, out of mind . . . and at no point has WWE really put it out of sight in the last twelve years.

(Everything breaks down in to a four-man brawl.)

Chris: DX are getting back that heat they never lost last night.
Ryan: "Rhodes is holding his own," says Michael Cole. There is a line that I never thought I would hear in a fight between Triple H and CODY RHODES.
Chris: Well, if it helps, it didn't last.

Ryan: Jesus, the camera man was taken out for the second week in a row.
Chris: I hope they're getting hazard pay.
Ryan: Two bumps in a week is at least twice as many as Hogan took in the first three years of his WCW run.
Chris: He was too busy walking in to dungeons.
Ryan: I literally watched every one of those Dungeon of Doom skits the other day, including the debut of BRAUN THE LEPRECHAUN~! It was glorious.



Winner: Shawn Michaels via disqualification
Ryan: The actual match prior to the schmozz was competently worked, but the two guys stuck to basics . . . which makes perfect sense given where they were going with the finish. As far as the brawl after the bell is concerned, I didn't mind it nearly as much as Chris seemed to. Yes, DX took the vast majority of the offense, but they were coming off of a clean loss and are presumably building towards a match in which Legacy will be booked as their equals. Given that fact, it was perfectly fine for HHH and HBK to get a little bit of an upper hand on the second generation team, especially since the outcome was left inconclusive instead of showing us DX standing tall over fallen adversaries. **1/2

Hype for Stratus & ??? vs. Jericho & Phoenix

Chris: I wonder which Cena Trish will pick.
Ryan: John Cena Sr., maybe?
Chris: I wonder if we let MVP into the country.
Ryan: You let him in for last night's show.
Chris: Yeah but that was Quebec.
Ryan: It's not like you've got to get him over the border again once he's in Montreal.
Chris: Most non-Quebecers would prefer that Quebec WAS over the border.
Ryan: How could they hate the province that gave them Carl Ouellet?
Chris: The fact that they consider themselves a country within a country is a start.
Ryan: Yes, those of us south of your border know how that fees. Just take a look at the US's relationship with Texas.

Evan Bourne & Hornswoggle vs. Chavo Guerrero, Jr. & Carlito Colon w/ Rosa Mendes

Chris: So I guess Rosa is no longer Beth's protege?
Ryan: That's not been played up in a couple of months now.
Chris: She was accompanying Beth though.
Ryan: Again, not for a couple of months. They've tagged, but that was just because they're heel divas and heel divas tag all the time for no reason other than that they're heels. They didn't play up a relationship.

Ryan: And Chavo's losing streak goes on.
Chris: Oh God. There's that image of Vince wetting himself again.

(Chavo declares that he's giving up against Horny.)

Ryan: Hey, the angle is actually moving forward . . . or ending . . . I can't tell which that was supposed to be.
Chris: Of course that would have been so much better about four weeks ago.
Ryan: I'll go with eight.
Chris: Also acceptable.

Ryan: The question now becomes what Evan Borne gets to do . . . assuming it's not just returning to his role as the one guy the midcard heels are allowed to consistently go over.
Chris: I think he's the next Mysterio. That's why he's paired with the leprechaun.
Ryan: To be the next Misterio he would have to, you know, win.
Chris: He's beaten Chavo a couple of times, and I think first they want to see if he can hook the kids before they push him.
Ryan: I think that was already made clear when he was teaming with Misterio.
Chris: But some of that could have been reisdual. Horny is over with kids but not to the same degree.

Winner: Evan Bourne & Hornswoggle via pinfall
Ryan: Despite the inclusion of two extra bodies, this really didn't differ too horribly much from your standard Chavo Guerrero vs. Hornswoggle match. Bourne tried his hardest to throw in a couple of athletic spots that you won't see anywhere else on an episode of Raw these days, but that was really all there was to care about. *

John Cena Gets the Stick

Ryan: Cena's cutting a damn good promo here. Usually I have to say, "Cena did a good job once he cut through all of the ridiculous comedy that was written for him," but they actually let him be completely serious for once, and it worked.
Chris: You know what though? It doesn't matter. Cena could do anything at this point and no fans would be swayed one way or another.

Chris Jericho & Beth Phoenix vs. Trish Stratus & Montel Vontavious Porter

Ryan: huh, here's an interesting choice for Trish's partner.
Chris: It was really the only choice other than Cena, and this way MVP gets another rub.
Ryan: Right, but I figured Cena was a lock.
Chris: I did until the promo.
Ryan: At least this makes it less of a reply of Stratus' last mixed tag guest appearance.
Chris: That too.

(Commercial break.)

Ryan: God, that Cena/Orton commercial for the replay made the match look MORE awesome than it actually was.
Ryan: I honestly think that, twenty years from now, that will be one of the defining matches of Cena's career that we're seeing on his DVD sets . . . or sets of whatever has replaced DVDs by that point.
Chris: I think the Umaga match at the Rumble will be up there.
Ryan: Oh, absolutely.
Chris: Umaga doesn't need to be carried by anyone, but Cena adapted to him perfectly and got one of the best I Quit matches I've seen.
Ryan: Plus it helped that Umaga was actually PROTECTED going in to the match and didn't spend years in the midcard exchanging wins in meaningless matches with a bunch of other guys who weren't going anywhere . . . which seems to be something that WWE has forgotten when it comes to actually elevating wrestlers.

(Getting back to the match.)

Ryan: Well, so much for that continuity we were talking about earlier. "Trish and Beth weren't in WWE at the same time!" Cole notes. They were, and they've wrestled before.
Chris: Yes. In fact, didn't Trish bring Beth in to counter Mickie?
Ryan: Yes, that was the storyline . . . at least before Beth's jaw got busted.

(Hey, a disqualification! And a restart!)

Chris: Ah, Trish, that's how you GM. No crappy finish in her match!
Ryan: You know, if they ever decide to go back to a Jack Tunney style authority figure who only appears once ever six months in person and mainly does pre-tapes, I would fully endorse Trish getting the role.
Chris: As long as she wrestled from time to time.
Ryan: I don't even care about that.
Chris: I can live without, but if it's on offer I'll take it.

Ryan: BREAKING NEWS: Nicole Matthews of the Canadian Ninjas to debut with ROH on October 9.



Ryan: Beth standing up to MVP and begging off as soon as she's in trouble is just about as awesome.

Chris: Tandem ballin'?
Ryan: MVPescado! Hell of a tackle by Henry!
Chris: Good grief. They are really hyping Henry.
Ryan: As they should be.
Chris: Well that argument could have been made a few times over that last, what, 12 years? It's just that now they finally understand what to do with him.
Ryan: I don't care . . . the cards have been so stagnant lately that I'm excited when they get behind ANYBODY and actually run with them.
Chris: Well if it isn't their number one priority, it damn well should be . . . but with a face holding the title, who do they give Henry to cement his push?
Ryan: Show in a singles match comes to mind.
Chris: That works.

Winner: Montel Vontavious Porter, Mark Henry, & Trish Stratus via pinfall
Ryan: This match repeated the pattern of the show to date, as it was inoffensive but never quite moved beyond that level. Trish looked as good as she ever did in executing her trademark spots, which was good news, because she was quite literally the only thing in the first 90% of the match that we had not seen several times before. However, once it was time for the finish of the match, thing really kicked in to high gear. MVP's dive, followed by Henry's tackle, followed by Trish's two trademark spots and the pinfall was an AWESOME finish that made all three of the individuals involved look like major superstars, which, of course, was the point. **1/2

Dave Batista vs. Randy Orton

Ryan: Did Batista have some his tattoos redone, or am I just forgetting what he looked like before he was injured last?
Chris: I don't see anything obviously new, but I don't really scrutinize.

Chris: There seems to be some energy to this match that was lacking from ther previous matches
Ryan: Well, they can go harder because it looks like this won't be lasting long at all unless there's an unusually lengthy overrun.
Chris: Well they're three minutes in as it is.
Ryan: "No holds barred match continues! Batista wins!" What a bizarre call.
Chris: From Cole? Never!
Chris: I'm glad my prediction was wrong, though.
Ryan: Ditto. SD needs a top face far more than they need a top heel, so turning him doesn't make much sense at this point. Of course, I say that now and they'll probably do it on Tuesday.
Chris: lol
Chris: They don't really have a program for him as a heel right now, so I think he's safe for the moment.
Ryan: I can't wait for Batista vs. MIKE KNOX!
Chris: Knox has been awesome recently.
Ryan: Actually, sadly, I have a feeling that they'll start him off against Kane, unless they want to make the World Title program in to a three-way.
Chris: Giving them an out for Punk to retain?
Ryan: That would be one way to do it . . . Batista and Taker implode in HIATC and feud with each other, while Punk moves on to the latest babyface challenger, who I assume would be Rey . . . the only problem with that is you overshadow the title feud with a program involving bigger stars.
Chris: Nah, Morrison is next in line for a title shot.
Ryan: That only works if they're going to race through the Ziggler program in a month.

Winner: Dave Batista via pinfall
Ryan: This was a five minute long no disqualification match, so it wasn't going to be any great shakes. However, as far as five minute long no disqualification matches go, this was about as good as you could get. The two guys kept a breakneck pace, especially for Orton, and they were both taking some great bumps. The finish was a little bit predictable, but it was exactly what needed to happen in order to both send Batista to Smackdown looking strong and to further the John Cena/Randy Orton feud. **

To Sum It All Up

Ryan: This was a very middling episode of Raw. None of the matches were standouts, but none of them were horrible. None of the promos really hooked me for upcoming matches, but none of them turned me off either. What stuck out most in my mind about this show was just how little the company now seems to care about promoting its pay per view events. The top three programs heading in to Hell in a Cell are D-Generation X vs. Legacy, Chris Jericho & Big Show vs. MVP & Mark Henry, and Randy Orton vs. John Cena. On this show, two of those three programs had to play second fiddle to other storylines that WON'T have a direct impact on the pay per view. Orton vs. Cena was overshadowed entirely the build for Batista jumping to Smackdown, and the tag title feud was completely downplayed in favor of allowing Trish Stratus one more opportunity to shine. The result was television that held my attention for two hours and didn't necessarily frustrate me, even though it was probably not the best marketing tool for the next major show, which is only three weeks away.

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