2 Raw 2 Furious 12.07.09

Posted by Chris Lansdell on 12.08.2009

Byers and Lansdell make their return to give you the skinny on TLC's go-home show, dancing pecs and the potential in a crossover with a certain TV station.

Hello, good evening and welcome to 2 Raw 2 Furious, back with you after a real-life-enforced 2-week hiatus. Did you miss us? Presuming the answer was a resounding positive, we'll move right into the billionaire-hosted show.

BANNER!



Pre-show scuttlebutt

Lansdell:I never get tired of watching Muta impregnate Yingling
Byers: Thank god I know what the context of that is.
Lansdell:Walking around with an egg and everything
Byers: And that promotion somehow died.
Lansdell:The mind boggles.

Byers: Having not watched this show for two weeks, I feel really out of the loop.
Lansdell:You missed nothing important, except they elevated Sheamus and proved one or both of us right. I forget who said he was the next monster heel, and I also forget of the other person disagreed.
Byers: I am a bit sad that I missed that. I've liked the guy for a little while now . . . hopefully people are accepting him.
Lansdell:He's over. I don't know if he's ready for a Cena program, but he's over
Byers: The beauty of it is he doesn't have to be ready. DX vs. Jericho & Show will carry the PPV well enough that the WWE Title match doesn't have to do much.
Lansdell:We also have Taker-Batista, which is normally good for a trifecta of snowflakes. Raw?
Byers:: Raw.

Cuban to open

Lansdell:For a Nickelback song, that's not bad. It doesn't make me want to pierce my eardrums with a tuning fork
Byers: No, not bad at all. Though I was listening to "Across the Nation" for some reason the other night, and I miss that song now.
Lansdell:That fit the show very well. IT was a good tune too, I think it's on my playlist.
Byers: It even had references to drug use . . . perfect for pro wrestling.

Lansdell:They mentioned HDNet, home of RoH. That's surprising. It's not like he didn't have plenty of other resumé entries.
Byers: This is where the delusional indy fans start to think that Cuban will debut Bryan Danielson tonight.
Lansdell:Why on earth would they think that?
Byers: Because they're delusional, you see.
Lansdell:Just like I just told Randle: If he debuts on Raw I will eat my Kevin Steen shirt that he threw into the crowd at the first RoH Toronto show
Byers: If he debuts as anything other than "random dude on ECW with shitty name," I will subject myself to the tortue of watching Impact again.
Lansdell: I may hold you to that. I think he will get a good name.

John Cena vs Carlito

Lansdell: When did the champ change his name to Jeon Cena?
Byers: Je-on sounds like the name of a Kryptonian.
Lansdell:I thought it was a Japanese horror movie
Byers: Holy crap, Carlito is alive.
Lansdell:What's the betting that they don't mention their history?
Byers: Unless this is the triumphant return of Aaron Aguilera to WWE.
Lansdell:So not only is he alive, he also appears to have learned to be aggressive. And to not botch.
Byers: Prior to the run-in, they were having a nice little sequence there.
Lansdell:I may pass out. Did you just compliment Carlito?
Byers: That's classic Carlito, though: Motivated when in the ring with a main eventer, lazy as shit when doing anything else.
Lansdell:OK I love Sheamus's entrance theme. Just saying.
Byers:: I agree on the Sheamus theme. It's unique . . . something other than lame nu metal and sounds vaguely gaelic.

Winner: Geeeeeeeeee On Cena via pinfall (Attitude Adjustment)

Byers:: So do you want to try to whip out some witty variation of "BURIED~!" to describe Carlito's treatment here, or should I?
Lansdell:I was about to say that the result was exactly what it should have been. Carlito is back but not on Cena's level. He can hang for a while but he doesn't have the quality yet.
They needed to put that out there after the confrontation
Byers: I agree that it's exactly what it should have been, but boy does he look like a dumb shit when he gets the advantage of a run-in and still can't do anything more than get pinned clean in three minutes.
Lansdell:Against MVP, Miz, Evan Bourne or someone else on that level I'd agree. But this is Super Cena we're talking about. He gets handcuffed and beaten for 15 minutes and STILL wins.
Byers: I don't think it hurts Carlito at all given that he was already a nobody, but it certainly kills any belief I may have had that they wanted to make him into anything else upon his return. Which is good, because until the guy proves that he is going to be a team player, he shouldn't be anything but a nobody.
Lansdell:The hate flows through you young padawan. Be mindful of it, for hatred leads to the Dark side
Byers: What'd you just call me?
Lansdell:A Jedi trainee
Byers: I . . . see.

Legacy want Orton's Cena-ban lifted

Lansdell:Strong segment last week with Legacy and Kofi
Byers: Speaking of playing up history, do they mention Orton RKO'ing Cuban a few years ago?
Lansdell:I have my doubts.
Byers: Here it goes.
Lansdell:Well now. Selective history for the win. Carlito and Cena's blood feud doesn't get mentioned, but a single RKO gets made part of a story?
Byers: Randy Orton, looking like a frat boy instead of a demon.
Lansdell:Shit-eating grin and all. Weird seeing him with hair.
Byers: Wait, they put Orton over Kofi last week?
Lansdell:After Rhodes and DiBiase beat him down before the match. Many shenanigans.
Byers: Hm. I suppose that works depending on how it played out.
Lansdell:They blitzed his leg, essentially.
Byers: Wow, Mark Cuban doesn't really know how to run a wrestling show.
Lansdell:Oh noes! Legacy have to fight the rent-a-jobbers! Smell the fear!
Byers: You don't punish a tag team by sending Evan Bourne and Primo after them. It may have been predictable when Eric Bischoff sic'ed Kane on whoever pissed him off every week for two years, but at least it was effective.
Lansdell:I miss 3 Minute Warning
Byers: They should bring those guys back….oh, wait.
Lansdell:They'd have Legacy dead to rights. Too soon?
Byers: Probably.
Lansdell:Ah well. Still, this could be a fun match

Legacy vs Evan Bourne and Primo

Byers: Oh, absolutely. Even if I'm going to have difficulty telling who's who when Bourne and Cody are in the ring together. Thank god for differing tights.
Lansdell:Cody has about 60 pounds on Bourne. That might help/
Byers: Facially, though, there's quite a resemblance.
Lansdell:Are you casting aspersions on the son of a plumber?
Byers: Black armband on Carlito tonight . . . wonder how many more of those we'll be seeing.
Lansdell:Primo, even
Byers: Yeah, that guy. The talented one.
Lansdell:And Bourne, for that matter.
Byers: Isn't Bourne's part of his regular gear?
Lansdell:I don't pay enough attention to answer that.
Byers: I think it may be. So…why did Cuban make Legacy wrestle a match that they could easily win, presumably resulting in them getting paid, before ejecting them?
Lansdell:This isn't TNA, they get paid anyway
Byers: Well, sure, in reality they do.
Lansdell:Well if we're going kayfabe, anything can happen in WWE. On any given night any WWE superstar can defeat any other WWE superstar.
Byers: I suppose they haven't visited the topic of kayfabe pay schedules in a while, but, last they did, I thought wrestlers were still getting winners' purses and that sort of thing. If we're going kayfabe, this is a sport, and a team that has had a 1-10 season is probably losing to a team that has had a 7-3 season.

Sheamus hype package

The Ghost Who Walks says:How To Build A Monster Heel In 3 Easy Weeks
Byers: Yeah, who ever would have thought that having a wrestler beat people up in a convincing manner would get him over?
Lansdell:Combined with some video packages from flattering angles showing said beating up
Byers: Cue some geek claiming that Sheamus should be made to PAY HIS DUES before he gets a title shot.
Lansdell:Nah, he's fighting Cena. Cue some geek claiming that they hope he injures Cena and forces him to retire.

Maryse vs Gail Kim

Byers: Wow, Kelly may have screwed up the pronunciation of Maryse's name worse than Cole usually does.
Lansdell:Best female heel in WWE, that Maurice.
Byers: In terms of character and not ring-work, I'd go as far as to say best female heel in wrestling.
Lansdell:Better than Velvet Sky?
Byers:Yeah. Sky and Love were a great package because of their chemistry, but Sky as a solo act isn't as good.
Lansdell:And there's Kong of course. And by the invoking of her name, I am contractually obliged to remind you that Kong kills bitches dead.
Byers:Again, character not ring work. Kong's character isn't a great heel in the classic sense . . . she just does what she does and the crowd reacts accordingly based on who her opponents are.

Winner: Maryse via pinfall (cheating)
Lansdell:That was a fine little match.
Byers: Perfectly acceptable 90 second television bout.
Lansdell:Kelly Kelly is stupidly hot. But Gail did her job and made Maryse look good in the time she had.
Byers: And Maryse didn't screw anything up, which, given her past performances, is actually an accomplishment.

DX sells you stuff

Byers: Wow, the DX Christmas skits are back
Lansdell:Oh no
Byers: Remember when these played into the awesome HBK-JBL storyline last year? I miss angles like that . . . haven't seen one in a while.
Lansdell:And suddenly, Hornswaggle. Because this wasn't banal enough.
Byers: Okay, WWE is actually going to convince people to buy shirts that say "WORLD'S SMALLEST MEMBER." This is proof that their marketing department is a group of geniuses.
Lansdell:And they are now turning a duo that tries to be cool into a pair of geeks that refer to Star Wars as if they loved it
Byers: But it's okay, because they don't actually know what Star Wars is! Wrestling is scripted, you see!
Lansdell: Oh how clever! How novel! They made an inside reference! Ha ha!

There goes the Sarcasmatron again.

Byers: As opposed to that midget diving off of a Christmas tree at them, which was a total shoot and not part of any script.
Lansdell:Flying double clothesline from the Christmas tree! BAH GAWD KANG HE BOKE THEM IN HALF!
Byers: Trainers, EMTs, referees down.
The Ghost Who Walks says:How do ya learn to fall of a damn 12-foot Christmas tree, that's what I want to know!

More Sheamus hype

Byers: You know, I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't come back with a Sheamus/Lawler match.
It would've been predictable, but there are very few people who could sell being brutalized by Sheamus as well as Lawler could.
Lansdell:I'm surprised they didn't feed Bourne to him. Bourne bumps as well as Rey.
Byers: Bourne bumps as well as Rey did fifteen years ago.
Lansdell:High praise indeed
Byers: I honestly don't think there's anybody on their roster as good as putting others over as Bourne now. That's why I'm perfectly fine with him remaining a job guy.
Lansdell:Finlay?
Byers: Okay, Finlay's a good counter . . . though it's a different variety of making guys look good.

Kofi Kingston vs Randy Orton, Mark Cuban is guest referee

Lansdell:I really don't see this match happening tonight. They'd be crazy to have it straight up
Byers: I think it would be fine to give Kofi a win in a way that doesn't make him look weak but gives Orton the out of "you only won because of Cuban." Though then you would also have to put Kofi over in the blowoff to the feud so that his ONLY singles win wasn't due to guest ref hijinx.
Lansdell:I just don't understand why you have a pay per view match on Raw 6 days before the PPV
Byers: Ah. I didn't realize they were doing this on the PPV.
Lansdell:I don't think they've announced it, but it seems likely
Byers: If they're doing it here and do put Kingston over, it would almost be better to skip it on the PPV and do the blowoff a couple of weeks from now.
Lansdell:Man is Kofi over or what?
Byers: Absolutely.

Winner: Kofi Kingston via pinfall (super fast count)

Byers:Okay, that is NOT what I meant by giving Kofi a win.
Lansdell:Oh that valiant face, overcoming the odds to win a match clean
Byers: They just split the crowd, because, even if Orton is a heel, a part of the audience isn't going to react well to somebody being screwed over no matter what.
Lansdell:They're calling it revenge though. And the crowd seem happy. Anyone but Orton and it wouldn't have worked.
Byers: If Kofi is really pissed off by what happened last week, why would he want a cheap win as revenge? Wouldn't he be more interested in beating the holy hell out of Orton?
Lansdell:Seems more like Cuban is the pissed one, referring back to the RKO 6 years ago.
Byers: Which would be great if the match they were building up was Randy Orton versus Mark Cuban.
Lansdell:It's not as bad as I thought, but I still dislike it
Byers: The crowds have been so heavily behind Kofi for so long now that I don't think it will hurt him in the long run, but you're always playing a risky game when you start giving good guys fluke wins . . . especially if they're not put over clean in the long run.
Lansdell:I'm not going to hang on the fact that Cuban screwed Orton. He did that to even the score both for the RKO and for Kofi getting ambushed last week. I know what you're saying about Kofi wanting to annihilate Orton for that, but he gets his "winner's share" and still gets to kill Orton on PPV
Byers: Hopefully gets to kill Orton on PPV.

US Title Match: Mark Henry vs The Miz ©

Lansdell:Verne Troyer was horrible, by the way
Byers: I'm not surprised. The only thing I've seen him in outside of Austin Powers in which he did not completely suck was the Surreal Life.
Lansdell:You know, even with Miz holding gold he really is in limbo right now
Byers: NICE spot there with the dropkick off of the apron. Yeah, I've often said that holding a title doesn't mean anything if the title isn't booked well. And, in this case, it's not being booked well.
Lansdell:I think the issue is less the booking of the title and more the makeup of the roster. He has nobody with whom to feud.
Byers: That's a big part of it as well.
Lansdell:That WAS an impressive counter and win though
Winner: The Miz via pinfall (World's Strongest Slam countered to a DDT)

Byers: They could have turned this Henry thing into a program, but they basically blew it off in two weeks.I agree the win is impressive, though you have to wonder what they do with Henry from here. Maybe it's a prelude to a heel turn.
Lansdell:Again?
Byers: I think he could be a decent opponent for Cena to kill some time before the build to Wrestlemania.
Lansdell:Haven't we seen that before?
Byers: Have we? I honeslty don't remember. I'm sure the match has occurred, but I don't remember the two having a progrma.
Lansdell:Hmmm....I could have sworn they did, because if not then he must be the only big guy that Cena hasn't beaten. Well, until he ends the Streak that is
Byers: I don't think we'll be seeing Cena/Goldberg anytime soon.
Lansdell:The other Streak
Byers: Jack Swagger? They killed that a while ago.
Lansdell:Forget it. You'll go to a Ray Stevens reference next…

Chavo Guerrero and Jillian vs Eve Torres and Hornswaggle

Lansdell: Wow. A midget-diva vs man-diva tag match?
Byers: Surely this isn't even the first time they've done this in the Chavo-Hornswoggle feud. Which, by the way, I can't believe they're going back to.
Lansdell:No, I don't think they have. And to think we were so happy when Evan Bourne came into the picture.
Byers: Evan/Chavo could've been an awesome singles match. It just never materialized.
Lansdell:Absolutely. But they'd rather have him fight a little person. Because midgets = ratings!
Byers:Well, if you think about it, it's probably better to have somebody who's talented fight the little person. Could you imagine how godawful the feud would have been if Chavo were replaced with somebody like, say, Chris Masters?
Lansdell:Stop, please. I need mental floss now. And it looks like you awoke the woof Gods.
Byers: Now we've got Masters saving Horny from Chavo. Didn't we have Chavo saving Horny from Masters two months ago?
Lansdell:We did. But we're not allowed to remember that
Byers: Okay, Masters' pec dance leading to a comeback = NEW GREATEST THING EVER.
Lansdell:Ladies and gentlemen, do not adjust your sets, that really WAS a "Where's your bra?" chant
Byers: Yeah, because wrestling fans are people who have a lot of room to accuse Chris Masters of having man boobs.
Lansdell:Isn't it crazy how the dumbest things get over? They tried everything with Masters, and it's his pecs that do the trick
Byers: It makes sense if you think about it. He's not a good enough wrestler or promo to get over based on those qualities. His best attribute is his body, and people aren't going to get behind a guy just because of his physique in the twenty-first century. A goofy comedy gimmick is the only thing left for him.
Lansdell:Oh sure it does, it's just that I never would have thought about it before seeing it, and anyone who says they did is a liar and quite possibly a terrorist.
Byers: It doesn't have legs, though. It's like Charlie Haas' impressions . . . it'll be funny for three more weeks, and then it'll completely lose steam.
Lansdell:Speaking of Haas...he still employed?
Byers: I believe so.
Lansdell:Poor guy. All he needs is a gimmick.
Byers: Or a tag team partner. He's the perfect partner for a guy who is a flashier wrestler or who is significantly more charismatic.
Lansdell:Like, say, Bryan Danielson?
Byers: Just ask Shelton Benjamin or Rico. I don't think Danielson would work. Haas is bigger, so, based on WWE booking philosophy, he would have to be the "star" of the team. Haas isn't meant to be the "star" of anything.

DX vs Chris Jericho

Lansdell:Wow, look at the front row behind Jericho. Plants, maybe?
Byers: Okay, Jericho making sure to position himself so that he's right in the middle of the sea of "Jericho sucks" signs for a perfect photo op just goes to prove how awesome he is.
Lansdell:20-foot ladders? Solid oak tables? Exaggerate much?
Byers: Why doesn't the chair get some kind of wacky embellishment?
Lansdell:Lead-coated? Solid platinum?
Byers:THRONES. "Triple H, I will put you through a solid oak table and hit you with a THRONE."
Tell me that doesn't soud more menacing than "chair."
Lansdell:Gilded throne. Might as well go the whole hog.
Byers: I like it. The last time we saw a throne used as a weapon in wrestling was Jerry Lawler attacking Bret Hart after King of the Ring 1993, IIRC. And that was awesome.
Lansdell:King Booker must have done it
Byers: I say bring back thrones . . . make it a TLT match.
Lansdell:But then you can't cross-promote with the TLC channel
Byers: If they actually intended to do that, it would be better than any throne-related match. Seriously, what would be better than a WWE-18 Kids and Counting crossover? THERE is a guest host. Get the wacky family from that show on Raw.
Lansdell:Jon vs Kate in a Plus-8berjack match. Check and mate.
Byers: If the story picks up steam again, I could actually see WWE doing Jon vs. Kate in a style similar to Trump vs. Rosie or Barack vs. Hillary . . . which is exactly why I didn't mention it.
They don't need to be encouraged.
Lansdell:So we have 10 minutes plus overrun left. How do they drag it to that? Big Show run-in?
Byers: They still have to do the Sheamus-Cena segment, so they don't have to drag it out at all.
Lansdell:I forgot about that. I still think we'll get a Big Show run-in
Byers: Quite possibly, to the extent that anything Show does these days can be referred to as "running." Yup, there it is. More of a Big Show "casual jog in."
Lansdell:Waddle-in! Just in case we didn't know what chairs and ladders could do, they're giving us a demo. Isn't that nice of them?
Byers: Booking 101, baby.

Winner: NOBODY (Clusterfuck)

Lansdell:Bah and/or humbug Totally predictable, but I guess sometimes you have to be predictable
Byers: Absolutely. It follows a pattern of recent WWE booking, though. They dick around with a bunch of comedy for weeks and then, the show before they pay per view, they decide that they need a heavy angle to sell the show. It used to be that you'd do your heavy angle well in advance of the show so that it could be replayed several times beforehand and so that characters could cut promos about how the angle affected them and what it was going to cause them to do on the big show. Granted, I'm not a professional, but things seemed to be much more effective that way.
Lansdell:Now they're going with it being the last thing on people's minds, getting them to laugh for a few weeks in the name of entertainment and then switching on the intensity so that when it comes to ordering time, your most recent memory is the beatdown/intense promo. That's intelligent psychological marketing but I think a lot of the fans are too smart for that.
Byers: The problem with that plan is that it doesn't create memorable moments. If it only happens once and is never replayed or referenced again after the pay per view, who remembers a big beatdown like this one or the similar beating that Legacy gave DX before their PPV tag match? Meanwhile, twenty years later, people are still talking about Terry Funk trying to kill Ric Flair by suffocating him with a plastic bag.
Lansdell:I still remember Legacy beating down DX, and I remember even more Legacy BEATING DX. I don't remember anything about Funk vs Flair, but that's likely because I never saw it.
Byers: Even if a big angle isn't the LAST memory a fan has, if you have additional shows after the big angle, you can do more to burn it into people's psyches than you can if it's the absolute last thing they see. I remember that Legacy beat DX, but, unfortunately, I remember it as being an isolated incident that meant nothing in the short or long terms for Legacy's career.
Lansdell:I think your argument works for people like us, but the target demographic for WWE isn't us. It's young kids with no attention span. They can't remember two weeks ago, nor do they want to.
Byers: Actually, the majority of WWE viewers are thirty year old men.
Lansdell:Yes, but that's not what they WANT
Byers: If you are trying to sell pay per views, you do not focus on what you want. You focus on what you have.

Cena and Sheamus have a showdown…and Cuban is in a table crisis

Lansdell:I'm not sure where they're going with Cena's blank stare here while Sheamus rants at him.
Byers: They are building toward a big Cena explosion at the end of the promo.
Lansdell:Well clearly, but why?
Byers: Because when you tell a story, you start slowly and progressively build towards a climax.
Lansdell:It should feel natural though. That didn't.
Byers: No, not really. Cena's picking up steam, though. Not a phenomenal promo that will be remembered for ages, but one that's good enough and accomplishing what it needs to accomplish
Lansdell:END SCENE! Now! Oh dammit, they ruined a perfect ending to show a replay and have Sheamus toss some furniture.
Byers: I think they needed the replay . . . the first camera angle did not catch that kick all too well.
NO BUYS if the finish to the show is Cuban going through a table, though.
Lansdell:Nah, Sheamus will I think. And the kick could have been shown next week. WWE does this a lot, they tack on an extra couple of minutes after the segment comes to a natural ending just so they can squeeze every second out of USA.
Byers: Okay, "tripped over himself" or not, there's no way that shove should've put Sheamus down.
Lansdell:Oh dear God. Now he has to kill Cuban, or the last 3 weeks are undone. Who the hell thought that having Mark Cuban push your new monster heel down was a good idea?
Byers: Even if he kills Cuban, what does that accomplish? It gets the show its Sportscenter moment, but why does that make me want to see Cena versus Sheamus? This almost needed a second Cena table spot.
Lansdell:So the Mavericks let their owner get planted before coming to his rescue? Some team. Trade em all!
Byers: Maybe the Bella twins had them distracted and this will all lead to a heel faction consisting of Sheamus, the Bellas, and Chris Masters' renegade left pectoral.
Lansdell:And Nega-Hornswaggle
Byers: The one without the beard?
Lansdell:That's him

Final Thoughts

Lansdell: I don't think the show did a bad job. The matches all got built, Sheamus got to kill someone AND got montages all show, and Cena didn't leave him out cold as I feared.
Byers: It was so-so. Even though the focus of the physicality at the end of the day was not Sheamus versus Cena, the show still did a good job of setting up the Irishman as a contender, even it didn't really build up the personal issue between the two. Jericho-Show vs. DX got a run of the mill, mediocre angle to set it up . . . nothing that did harm to the build but nothing that will help it either. Kofi-Orton was just weird, for all of the reasons we went into above.

Lansdell:It's pretty much the definition of an average show. Nothing that was horrible, plenty that worked, and nothing that was outstanding. The issue is that Raw has a fairly stacked card for TLC, and they've barely done anything to build any of the matches. Orton-Kofi is the closest, and that's been simmering for weeks, but it feels like it was just thrown in as an extra. Smackdown is going to have to really build their matches if they want this pay per view to come off as anything other than an afterthought.