2 Raw, 2 Furious 02.08.10

Posted by Ryan Byers on 02.09.2010

Byers and Lansdell return with a spirited debate about the relative merits of Cena and Batista mixing it up with Bret and Vince, as well as obscure references to Pokemon, lucha libre, and how to choke back a long, hard, twelve inch . . . sandwich.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to 2 Raw, 2 Furious, 411mania's real-time Raw recap, hosted by yours truly and Mr. Chris Lansdell. After a month or two that was fraught with no-shows and guest fill-ins, 2R2F got back to its roots last night with the original lineup and Lansdell and I returning to the column's helm for a helluva good Raw that featured perhaps the best Bret Hart-Vince McMahon interaction since the Hitman's return to WWE on January 4. Now, for the first time in god knows how long, Lansdell and I are together again for the second week in a row while WWE continues down the road to Wrestlemania with a big World Tag Team Title match.

Let's see what happens . . .



Pre-Show Scuttlebutt

Chris: That tag match is looking great tonight.
Ryan: It could be fun. I read somewhere that they're doing elimination rules, which I didn't expect.
Chris: That's what I meant when I said it's looking great. Also, I have a dislocated middle finger. This is not great.
Ryan: So you won't be able to show your displeasure when Triple H pins Punk.
Chris: Half my displeasure at least.

Ryan: Fair point.
Chris: Let's play Hunt The Stream! Raw?
Ryan: Raw, though the only stream I need is channel 27 on my cable system.
Chris: Yes well I could watch channel 31, but then my half of the column would be delayed 15 minutes.
Ryan: We should try that some week just to see how it goes.
Chris: Oh wow. No.
Ryan: I think we all know it would devolve quickly into me just making shit up to screw with your head. "OH NO! THEY BROUGHT BACK THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR!"

Chris: By the way, I discovered today that the large outdoor stadium in Calgary is called McMahon Stadium.
Ryan: Well, that's a step up from the Bischoff Bowl.
Chris: Unfortunately, it will never host WrestleMania
Ryan: Not unless Vince really does enter evil genius mode and invents some kind of weather machine.
Chris: Or they put a really big and heavy tarp on it.

Guest Host Carl Edwards Drives His Racecar Into the Arena

Chris: AFLAC
Ryan: Duck!
Chris: AFLAC
Chris: Amazing. He's driving a Ford and it didn't break down once.
Ryan: I would join you in your mockery of American automobiles, but I drive a Chevy, so . . .

Ryan: Hopefully this guy is more charismatic than the last Nascar drivers they had on.
Chris: Well now. He did a backflip off the top, so he's already better than half the roster.
Ryan: Doing a flip with no psychology behind it? What does he think he's doing, guest hosting ROH on HDNet?

Ryan: Wow, New Orleans won the Superbowl, eh?
Chris: Who dat won what dere now?
Ryan: Ah, you're a Junkyard Dog fan, I see.



Chris: Well, Edwards sure seems to have more personality than a wet sock . . . or the last NASCAR hosts.

SHEAMUS Interrupts Edwards' Niceties

Ryan: Lovin' the heat for Sheamus.
Chris: Why do people say he's no good on the mic?
Ryan: People say he's no good on the mic? Who are these people, and what show are they watching?
Chris: I think we call them "morons."
Ryan: Seriously, I've never heard somebody say that, and, if I did, I would vehemently disagree.
Chris: You don't read the comments section, huh?
Ryan: No, not unless it's the comments section for something I've written. Yeah, I'm that guy.

Christian Cage Interrupts Sheamus' Interruption of Edwards' Niceties

Chris: GO!

Chris: Poor Christian. He just realized that nobody cares about his little belt.
Ryan: That doesn't make him "Poor Christian." That makes him "Daft Christian."
Chris: He should team up with Daft Punk.

Ryan: The ECW guys are becoming free agents? Let the bidding war for Croft and Baretta begin!
Chris: How will they explain it when nobody wants Abraham Washington?
Ryan: They'll make him exclusive to Superstars and nobody will notice.

Chris: Well, I give Edwards top marks so far.
Ryan: Carl Edwards was fine, but I'm still holding out for a guest host spot by JOHN Edwards.
Chris: He'd be a heel. He cheats.
Ryan: And lies . . . hell, if we can get him to steal something, WWE will have some great theme music to recycle for him.
Chris: MAMACITA.
Ryan: Ahhh, it's times like these that I thank whatever deity that may exist that the two of us have come nowhere near the book of a wrestling promotion.
Chris: Anything we booked would have the most rabid following of any promotion anywhere. Unfortunately, it would only be 186 rabid fans.

Sheamus vs. Christian Cage

Ryan: Seeing that dive by Christian, you know who I miss? Silver King. There's a guy who never got his due in the US.
Chris: He got his dues out of Woman's ass didn't he . . . or am I mixing my urban myths again?
Ryan: I think you are. I don't recall anything about affairs between Nancy Benoit and luchadors.
Chris: So who bit a chunk out of who's ass?
Ryan: If that's true, Jim Neidhart is very flexible.
Chris: Oh, you. Hoisted by my own petard.

Ryan: POLISH HAMMER~!
Ryan: . . . um, Irish Hammer?
Chris: Indeed. Hey, it's that move Christian stole from Sonjay Dutt!

Winner: Sheamus via pinfall (Razor's Edge)
Ryan: Good little match there. Christian got enough offense that it didn't completely bury the concept of the ECW wrestlers as free agents, but Sheamus wasn't hurt at all and got the clean win he should have given that he's the bigger dog at this point. **1/2
Chris: Exactly my thoughts.

DX Meet Backstage

Chris: HHH looks like he sucked a jalapeno down to the stem.
Ryan: I've got no problem with that. The more serious DX stays headed into Mania, the better.
Chris: Amen. A friend of mine pointed out that neither man was in DX garb for the Rumble.

Commercial Break Banter

Ryan: "Pain is in the Eye of the Destroyer," says the Elimination Chamber commercial. That's the worst tag line for a PPV ever.
Chris: Houston: We have a problem is up there.

Chris: You know what this show needs more of?
Ryan: I think we covered that earlier. Silver King.
Chris: No, the Undertaker's dong.
Ryan: You can't go wrong with the dong.
Chris: Oh God . . . I think you may have evolved it!
Ryan: From Charmander to Charmeleon, baby.



Video Recap of Last Week's Show-Closing Angle

Ryan: You know, having viewed it again, I think we really undersold how awesome that show-closing angle was last week.
Chris: I know I did, because it contained Batista. And, to be fair, he HAS been watchable since the heel turn. It was just about three years too late.
Ryan: Which, really, we've gone over before - it's hard to turn him heel when he keeps getting hurt and the masses want to react to him as a face every time he does a big comeback.

"Exclusive Footage" of Batista Attacking Cena After Last Week's Show Closed

Chris: That was one nasty beatdown.
Ryan: And I'm digging the "after the show went off the air" nature of the angle as well. It sends fans the message that they might see important things that don't air on TV if they come to live shows, and it also furthered the Cena-Batista feud in a big way while simultaneously allowing the focus of the end of last week's show to be Hart/McMahon, which is what it needed to be.
Chris: Agreed, but I don't really want to see the match, and I really don't want a "Hart in one corner, McMahon in another" deal, so I'm going to be disappointed.
Ryan: I'd imagine that they're doing the Hart/Cena vs. Vince/Batista tag, which seems a little bit watered down . . . but you can't help it if that's all Bret can handle physically.
Chris: I'd prefer that to the corner option, but I still wish we could have had Harts and Bret vs DX and Vince. As it is, Bret hasn't been near his boys.
Ryan: Well, the rumor, unsurprisingly, is that we didn't get DX involved with the Bret angle because there is a certain fellow wHHHo was opposed to bringing the Hitman in.
Chris: Why, wHHHoever could tHHHat be?
Ryan: HHHmmmmm . . .

The Straight Edge Society Schills Sandwiches

Chris: These guys feel like a unit. Great stable. I hope they win the belts, and not just because I am the biggest Punk mark on the site
Ryan: There is something that feels very natural about them, which is odd given that they essentially came from three entirely differently backgrounds.

Ryan: Jared from Subway?
Chris: If he's a celebrity, I'm Kurt Angle.
Ryan: Punk needs to accuse him of being hooked on deit pills.

Ryan: "Go get me Jared from Subway," Punk says, dead serious . . . and DX makes the save for Jared. This is really f'ing surreal.
Chris: It is a sentence I never thought I would have to read.
Ryan: So here's the question: Did Subway pay for that spot, or does WWE actually think that Jared is a big enough celebrity that he should be pointed out on television and semi-involved in an angle?
Chris: Jared's been on WWE TV several times. They like to recognize real fans who are somewhat known. Given the lack of subway logo, I'd say that's all it was.

The Five Dollar Footlong Frenzy Finishes, Other Match Participants Enter

Ryan: Okay, the Big Show was now FINED for punching the ref last week. He was screwed over already for getting DQ'ed due to an obvious accident, and now they're FINING him?
Chris: Heels have it tough, huh?
Ryan: It'd be one thing if he were a babyface and these were all the actions of a spiteful heel authority figure of some kind . . . but, as things are, this is just weird.

D-Generation X (c) vs. The Big Show & Mike the Miz vs. CM Punk & Luke Gallows for the WWE Tag Team Championship

Chris: You know what I'd like to see? HBK and Punk working together for a good portion of this match.
Ryan: For the sheer irony of seeing the devout Christian working with the guy doing a phony preacher gimmick?
Chris: I was thinking "because it would be awesome," but OK, your angle works too.
Ryan: Oh, you meant "work together" as in "wrestle one another." I was thinking of "work together" in the kayfabe sense of the phrase.
Chris: Ah. No.

Ryan: Do they normally do three way tag team matches with one representative of each team in the ring simultaneously? I honestly don't remember.
Chris: I can't remember the last tag team triple threat elimination they did.
Ryan: I don't recall the standard WWE rules, but my recollection is that the majority of these sorts of matches only involve two guys in the ring, meaning one of the three teams is completely out of the picture.
Chris: Yes. They also used to mention the "Outlaw Rule", where one tag partner cannot pin the other . . . but, of course, in an elimination match that's not an issue.
Ryan: Unless the team in question is very, very stupid.

Chris: Speaking of very, very stupid, Bauer just pointed out that Cole said "Who will be the new unified tag team champions?" before the break.
Ryan: Awww . . . it's not nice to call Bauer stupid. Bad Lansdell!

Ryan: You know, the funny thing about Serena is, even though they've got her slotted as a heel here, she's really an AWESOME babyface. In fact, I don't recall her ever working heel before signing with WWE.
Chris: She's working well as Punk's female accomplice, though.
Ryan: Oh, I'm not saying that she's not doing a good job in her current role, but I am surprised that's where they put her given her past. . . though they may not even know.



Chris: Okay, I love the way HBK was wary about the kip-up. Great continuity.
Ryan: ahhh, the little things.

(Superkick. Punk pinned by HBK.)

Chris: Oh, fuck a duck sideways. Why the hell would you do that? Why eliminate the best choice for the win, and have Punk eat the fall instead of Gallows?
Ryan: Because this is WWE, and, because Gallows is larger, he's going to be portrayed as the better wrestler.
Chris: They might be the only people on earth who believe that.
Ryan: I will say, though, that with the Straight Edgers gone I hope that DX is retaining.
Chris: Yeah, that makes sense.
Ryan: Miz and Show as champions just seems like a low rent version of Jericho and Show as champions, which we've already seen for a lengthy period.

(Rollup. Michaels pinned by Miz.)

Ryan: But, apparently, that's exactly what we're going to see.
Chris: Oh dear.
Ryan: I suppose on the positive end of things, Miz really has been doing a great job lately, and this in theory should help him get more exposure.
Chris: This likely means he drops the US title, though.
Ryan: I don't know that will necessarily be happening, but, even if he does, the Tag Team Titles mean more than the US Titles these days, so it's still a step up.
Chris: It's just that you said a little while ago that he shouldn't drop the US strap, because he needs some feuds first.
Ryan: I think that's irrelevant if he keeps the Tag Titles for an extended period and gets some good feuds in that division.
Chris: I will agree about the tag straps, though . . . it just seems uncharacteristically slapdash for WWE to do a change like this at this time of year. This is the one period they normally plan three months in advance. I mean, who can Miz and Show feud with? What face teams are there?
Ryan: Well, there's Crime Time, and, umm . . .

Winners: Mike the Miz & The Big Show via pinfall (Michaels elimates Punk with a Superkick, Miz eliminates Michaels with a rollup
Ryan: Well, the result certainly wasn't in line with what Lansdell and I would have booked, but the in-ring action that lead up to that result was very solid. Everybody looked great, and I'm surprised with how natural relatively new faces to the roster like Punk and Miz looked in there with guys like Triple H, Michaels, and Show, who have been around for at least twice as long. The somewhat unique stipulations for a WWE match helped making this more entertaining as well, as it felt like a big break from the monotony that sometimes accompanies WWE-style title matches. ***

Shawn Micahels Chases Down Teddy Long Backstage

Ryan: Shawn begs to get into Smackdown. Interesting turn. He's going off the deep end.
Chris: Very much so. I love this.
Ryan: Teddy gets kicked?
Chris: Carlito is in the background smiling at everything . . . and, hey, look, Teddy got kicked.

Ryan: Yeah, having Carlito and that transvestite in the background was a bit random.
Chris: Transvestite?
Ryan: Yeah, that RuPaul looking dude he was hanging out with.
Chris: I missed that.
Ryan: When Shawn walked up Carlito was standing around with this black guy in a ridiculous blond wig.
Chris: Interesting . . . wonder who that's supposed to be
Ryan: No clue.

Chris: Oh, hey, do we have a guest host tonight?
Ryan: Yeah, he was in the opening segment and then vanished . . . which I'm perfectly fine with . . . they've got more important things to focus on.
Chris: Personally, I would have had him and Teddy in a room together when Shawn came in.
Ryan: Eh. That would've been awkward because then when you replay this angle as part of the video recaps leading up to Mania, there'd be a question as to who the random Caucasian in the background is.

Teddy Getting Kicked is Replayed

Chris: Dude, that's Alicia Fox!
Ryan: Who is?
Chris: Your transvestite!
Ryan: Really? Not one of her better nights.
Chris: Yup.

Gail Kim vs. Jillian Hall

Ryan: So, is this Maryse ragging on the Smackdown women setting up some kind of interpromotional match for Mania?
Chris: Of course. Don't we always get one of those?

Chris: Maryse called Gail less than nothing.
Ryan: If we're talking about Gail without Amazing Kong, I'd tend to agree.

Winner: Gail Kim via pinfall (falling boot . . . thing)
Ryan: This match literally ran about thirty seconds, but, hey, at least nothing was overtly screwed up. That's more than you can say about a lot of WWE women's matches these days. 1/4*

Ted DiBiase is the First Member of the WWE Hall of Fame Class of 2010

Chris: OH HELL YES!
Ryan: BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Chris: Best laugh in wrestling history.
Ryan: Interesting that they're focusing the induction video on all of these skits he did instead of the fact that he was a legitimate main event threat against Hogan and Savage.
Chris: As legit as anyone got against Hogan, anyway.
Ryan: Well, yeah.



Chris: I wonder if Ted Jr. and Brett induct him.
Ryan: That'd be kind of a raw deal for the third kid he has in the wrestling industry, but I could see it happening.
Chris: Mike? Bring in all three. Look at what it did for Cody.
Ryan: Allowed him to cut a great promo that he has yet to live up to?
Chris: Got him on TV was more my angle.

More Sandwich Plugs, This Time with Santino

Ryan: Yeah, Subway paid for this.
Chris: Totally.
Ryan: So did I miss an episode of Raw that explains what this Santino-cobra thing is all about?
Chris: It was waaay back during the Bragging Rights build, when Raw beat up on Big Show.

And Next Week's Host Is . . .

Ryan: Okay, Springer hosting Raw has the potential to rival Barker hosting Raw.
Chris: Indeed. And I've even heard of him, which is a plus

Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes

Ryan: Have we seen an Orton-Cody match before? I know they've periodically done Orton and Ted, but I'm having a hard time remembering this pairing.
Chris: I don't think so, no. I was expecting a "You will lay down for me!" frm Randy
Ryan: Nice bump on the missed high cross.

Chris: OH SNAP!
Ryan: Hm, Sheamus runs in . . . that is one of the last things that I was expecting.
Chris: Well at the Rumble, Orton was getting stupid loud pops.
Ryan: Though if they're turning him face, the question is where that leaves DiBiase.
Chris: I still see a triple threat at Mania, Orton as face vs. DiBiase as tweener vs. Rhodes as heel.
Ryan: That's a possibility, though I still hate the term "tweener."
Chris: A relic of the Attitude era, I fear.
Ryan: I don't think there were really that many examples of "tweeners" during that period of time, though. A few powerful people in wrestling did mainstream interviews about "shades of gray," and, as a result, fans thought they were being smart by proclaiming certain guys weren't clear cut faces and heels . . . when, in reality, they were.
Chris: Pretty much the way everything on the internet gets started . . . by certain "smart" trendsetters.
Ryan: Ah, if only they could be smart trendsetters and not "smart" trendsetters.

Winner: Cody Rhodes via pinfall (Roll of the Dice)
Ryan: This one was more angle than match, so it's difficult if not impossible to assign a proper rating to. However, I will say that I was very impressed with how Cody carried himself in the ring in terms of facial reactions and putting the story over. I'm also intrigued by Lawler making a subtle mention on commentary that Sheamus and Rhodes may be in cahoots, because it's just crazy enough to wind up being true.

Edwards Books Cena vs. Triple H, Orton vs. Sheamus, & DiBiase vs. Kofi Seven Days Out

Chris: That's a stacked Raw next week.
Ryan: I have no clue why it's a stacked Raw next week, but you are correct, it is.

John Cena vs. Ted DiBiase

Chris: Looks like Je-on Cena is back.
Ryan: I'm not following you.
Chris: The way the ring announcer says his name, "Jeeeeeeon!"
Ryan: ahhhh . . . I thought you were making some kind of lame attempt to turn his name into something similar to Jor-El, the father of Superman.
Chris: Kal-El would be better, no?
Ryan: Sure, either one of them. I just couldn't remember Supes' shoot name.
Chris: My geek outgeeked your geek.
Ryan: I'm comfortable with that.

Winner: No Contest
Ryan: Yup, that's what that was.

No Clue What Lansdell is on About Here

Chris: Does minimum wage vary by state?
Ryan: There's a federal minimum wage and states have the ability to set their individual minimum wages higher.
Chris: And the federal one is?
Ryan: $7.25 per hour.
Chris: No comment.

Main Event Interview: Cena Confronts Vince McMahon

Chris: Ahhh, I love evil cocky genius McMahon.
Ryan: There's no better type.

Ryan: In addition to overcoming Bret's physical limitations, the good thing about inserting Cena and Batista into this angle is that, if Bret has a limited schedule, it gives them an opportunity to further the storyline with more than just recaps of the Hitman's last appearance.
Chris: Which could just as easily have been done with pre-recorded segments, satellite appearances and the like.
Ryan: I don't know about that. I prefer Bret as more of a special attraction. If you've got him on board for several months and he's limited in what he can do, you don't want to run the risk of overexposing him.
Chris: Sure, but Cena-Batista would have been a major match without tagging Bret-Vince onto it.
Ryan: I agree that Cena-Batista and Bret-Vince would have been major matches independently, but, again, we come back to the issue of Bret's physical limitations and the apparent unwillingness of at least half of DX to be involved in that match.
Chris: OK so leave out the DX thing. Just . . . do something, anything that doesn't involve two of the biggest names in the company.
Ryan: But do you really want to risk something so big by sticking it with guys who aren't proven to be able to carry it?
Chris: That's the thing though . . . the magnitude of Bret vs Vince will lessen that strain.
Ryan: It'll lessen the strain in that people will react to a match involving the two of them almost regardless of the build up, but why wouldn't you want the best possible buildup to go along with the match? If you have to insert somebody other than Bret and Vince into the feud, nobody is going to give you the promos that John Cena is going to give you.
Chris: I can think of a few. Jericho, Michaels, Punk, Taker . . .
Ryan: The problem being that, with the exception of Punk, all of them have natural programs already for Mania.
Chris: Not that all of them would work in the match, just that they could deliver the promo. But I'm intrigued enough to keep watching. And is it me, or does Bret look like Bret of 12 years ago?
Ryan: I think it's you. The Bret of 12 years ago had a lot more muscle mass and probably wouldn't trip over his own two feet while knocking over some speakers.
Chris: Well no, but he looks younger facially.
Ryan: He has looked progressively better with every appearance, I'll give you that.

To Sum It All Up

Chris: I have to wonder if WWE isn't getting fed up with guest hosts. Carl Edwards had a great start and showed enthusiasm and charisma, and was scarcely seen. He would have been a good one to put in the ring, I think. Aside from that, there was a whole ton of "WTF?" in this episode. Cody beating Orton thanks to Sheamus, ShowMiz winning the tag titles instead of Punk's Army . . . I have more confidence in the booking team at this time of year than at any other time, but this is confusing. I don't know if I should be excited to see where it goes, or terrified that they have no idea.

Ryan: I have a bit more faith in the current direction of WWE than Lansdell does. I don't think that there was much "WTF?" at all. There were some unexpected twists and turns, but, overall, it seems like the promotion has solid, long-term plans for its two biggest programs headed into Wrestlemania. The Shawn Michaels storyline and his pursuit of the match with the Undertaker is unfolding beautifully, and, as revealed by our extended debate above, I am quite happy with the manner in which the situation with Bret Hart, Vince McMahon, John Cena, and Batista is progressing. Yes, there are some things on the undercard – like the Tag Team Title change – that are a bit more out nowhere, but the main events are where you make your money, and the top two programs for 'Mania are very strong with the two title feuds no doubt being solidified once we have clear champions after the Elimination Chamber PPV. Not everything was booked on this show exactly as I would have done it, but I can understand most of the promotion's decisions and still have to give this episode of Raw two thumbs up.

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Ciao!