This would be the first WWF PPV after the brand extension. Initially, we thought it was going to be an attempt to form two separate companies, á la NBC, complete with separate promotional and writing staffs. Instead, we got identical cousins played by Patty Duke.
In the meantime, Hulk Hogan quit the nWo and went back to the old red & yellow (which is what he actually went back to wearing in WCW). The nWo responded by attacking him and replacing him with X-Pac.
April 21, 2002
Live from Kansas City, Mo.
Your hosts are Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler.
Opening Match, Cruiserweight Title: Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri (w/Torrie Wilson).
Tajiri was dating Torrie onscreen, while Billy was dating her offscreen. Advantage: Kidman. This was also during Tajiri's abusive streak when he forced Torrie to wear geisha garb. I should point out that the Cruiserweight Title is (or was until mid-2007) the lone surviving WCW title as X-Pac's WWF-recognized version was dissolved while he was injured. The match goes against every precept that the WWF has told us over the years. First of all, both guys are hugely over, despite being cruiserweights. Second, they actual get wrestling over. Step right up, watch, watch as Kidman dropkicks Tajiri to block a handspring elbow and gets a HUGE POP from the crowd. Tajiri blocks a suplex with an enzuigiri. Nice. He gets two off a German Suplex, but he breaks a cardinal rule by trying to powerbomb Billy Kidman, and YOU CAN'T POWERBOMB BILLY KIDMAN! Kidman hits the facebuster for two. Kidman misses the Shooting Star Press (to another huge pop, this time in sympathy). Tajiri's Buzzsaw Kick only gets two. Kidman hits a Rydien Superbomb for two and tries a powerbomb, but YOU CAN'T POWERBOMB TAJIRI! Tajiri blows Red Mist in his eyes and gets the pin and the title at 9:08. Surprisingly good cruiserweight match from the WWF. Unfortunately, it necessitated the burial of the division before it got so over that it screwed everything up. Let me explain… no, there is too much. Let me sum up. See, the prevailing wisdom is that big guys draw and little guys don't draw. So, if the crowd starts to cheer for little guys, it's up to the promoter (in this case, Vincent Kennedy McMahon) to step in and job them out in order to protect the audience from themselves. It's similar to the Jake Roberts rule where Jake started getting pops for attacking Hulk Hogan, so they scrapped a planned Hogan vs. Roberts feud and turned Jake babyface so he didn't suck Hogan's heat away. ***1/4
Speaking of sucking, Bradshaw and Faarooq have a joyful reunion… after being apart for two weeks. Bradshaw tells Faarooq "he looks great." Uh, yeah. His hair grew an eighth of an inch since they were a tag team.
Scott Hall (w/X-Pac) vs. Bradshaw (w/Faarooq).
This was during Bradshaw's third failed singles run. Not surprisingly, once he stopped copying Stan Hansen and started copying Ted Dibiase, he got over. Well, sort of. The nWo trashed the APA's old office to set this up. Hall tosses his toothpick in Bradshaw's face, so Bradshaw slugs him in the mug. Hall bails but gets chased back in by Faarooq. Hall takes over but does nothing more interesting than punching. Bradshaw shoulderblocks him and hits the CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL! X-Pac puts Hall's foot on the ropes, though. Faarooq chases X-Pac around the ring, distracting Bradshaw long enough for Hall to "hit" a lowblow and schoolboy him at 5:45. This was a slugfest, which was fine when Bradshaw was doing the slugging. Scott Hall's tank (and bottle) was empty. 1/2*
In the back, Vince McMahon barges in on Ric Flair's office and asks him if there's a method to his madness in naming himself the special guest referee.
WWF Women's Title: Jazz vs. Trish Stratus.
These two met on the first ever brand-extended Raw, which reminds me of JR's famous line as Jazz was twisting Trish: MY GAWD! SHE'S LIKE A SHAPELY PRETZEL! Molly Holly, who lost a #1 contenders match to Trish, accuses Trish of cheating (she did) and lays her out before the match. Jazz grabs her and sideslams Trish. Trish fights back but gets Finlay Rolled. The Chick Kick only gets two. Trish gets two off a neckbreaker and chops away, but Jazz plants her with a sitout powerbomb. Jazz chokes Trish out on the ropes, and counters Stratusfaction to a cradle slam for two. Trish tries to block a charge, but Jazz grabs her leg and delivers a Dragon Screw. That sets up a Boston Crab and then an STF for the submission at 4:27. This was right around the time when people started recognizing that Trish was maturing as a wrestler. **
Recap of Paul Heyman sniffing Lita's panties and offering to tell Brock Lesnar to take it easy on Matt Hardy if she plays nice with him. Lita refused, so Brock destroyed Matt with an F5 on the entrance ramp.
Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) vs. Jeff Hardy (w/Lita).
Jeff dropkicks Lesnar off the apron but tries a pescado and gets caught. Jeff's hair makes him look like a Who. Jeff shoves Brock into the post… and the post submits! Inside, Brock catches up with Jeff and breaks his back several times. Jeff gets the Whisper in the Wind, but Brock kicks out of the Swanton. Jeff freaks out and grabs a chair, but Brock catches him in the F5. Heyman doesn't want to let Hardy off that easy, though, so he tells Brock to destroy him. Brock powerbombs Jeff several times until Referee Teddy Long stops the match out of concern for Jeff's health (5:32). This was a pretty decisive victory for Brock, and it certainly got him over as a monster, but in 2002, monsters were passé. It took an act of God (er, the Rock) to get Brock over as a big guy who can wrestle rather than Brockberg. *
Edge vs. Kurt Angle.
They actually picked up on Edge's big U.S. Title win back in 2001 and restarted the feud. The conventional wisdom was that Angle was good enough to have great matches with just about anyone, but he wasn't a draw, so he got stuck working with Edge – who was seen as a potential draw – in order to make him look good. Edge took full advantage of the opportunity, and it eventually led to main-event status. Interestingly, Kurt assumes the veteran role, constantly dominating or cutting Edge off because he's one step ahead. The odd thing is that Edge actually has several years of experience on him. Edge fights fire with fire, hitting Angle with a belly-to-belly suplex and a German Suplex that drops Angle right on his head. He backdrops Angle to the floor and wipes him out with a crossbody. That sets up a missile dropkick for two, but Angle hits the ANGLESLAM out of nowhere. ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Angle goes to his other tried-and-true move, the Anklelock. Edge rolls through into a rollup for two. Angle gets frustrated and grabs a chair, but it backfires when he misses a swing and it bounces back in his face. Edge gets two and sets up for the spear, but Angle just boots him in the face and finishes with another Angleslam at 13:26. This is one of those matches that made people sit up and take notice of Edge as a real singles star. He always had the look of a star, but in 2002, he started to grow into that role. Had it not been for injuries, he probably would have been a main eventer the following year. ****
Chris Jericho complains that he wasn't booked for the show, so he's leaving the arena. He's definitely not hanging around… certainly not for the main event.
Intercontinental Title: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddy Guerrero.
Eddy Guerrero made his triumphant return on the first Raw after the brand split and laid RVD out. Eddy eats a spinning kick early, but he blocks a charge with a Dragon Screw. Rob hits a crappy floatover suplex. Eddy cuts him off on top, but Van Dam clotheslines him on the top rope to counter a superplex. That sets up a flying kick and a back handspring into a moonsault. Van Dam knocks him to the floor and moonsaults on him off the apron. He hits the legdrop from the apron to the crowd barrier. Back in, Eddy comes back with the tilt-o-whirl backbreaker and Mexican Surfboard (into a Dragon Sleeper. Yikes!). That leads to the Gory Stretch, but Van Dam won't give up. The slingshot senton gets two, and Eddy hits a brainbuster into a backdrop suplex. He goes up for the frogsplash, but Van Dam blocks with an enzuigiri. Van Dam sets up for a superplex, but Eddy counters with a SICK sunset flip powerbomb. ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Rob hits the spinning wheel kick, so Eddy grabs the title belt. Rob takes it away from him (and bumps the ref in the process). Eddy gives RVD a neckbreaker on the title and finishes with the frogsplash at 11:42. This was one-sided, but they picked the right one side to dominate. Eddy really needed this kind of dominating performance to cement his comeback, and kudos to Van Dam for letting Eddy turn him into his bitch. It paid off too, because the two had a memorable feud and both guys came out of the summer the better for it. ***1/4
Recap of Ric Flair starting a brand new era on Raw… with Austin and the Undertaker, two guys who wrestled each other on PPV in 2001, 1999, 1998 and 1997. Hell, they wrestled each other as Stunning Steve Austin and the Punisher!
#1 Contender's Match: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker. Ric Flair is your special referee. If you're a young wrestler and you want to learn how to work without actually working, watch the first five minutes of this match. The biggest high spot is a shoulderblock. Austin gets two off a Thesz Press as the four frat boys in the fifth row ERUPT! They brawl out into the crowd and back again. Austin goes for a piledriver, but Taker backdrops him. The nWo saunters out to observe. And observe they do, as Taker whips Austin into the steps. Austin injures his leg, so Taker works it over back in the ring and locks in a side leglock. Austin makes the ropes, so Taker applies a chinlock. The match just bogs down. Just from a storyline standpoint, it's silly to go from one body part to another all of a sudden. That would be like a movie character trying to catch the shark that's been terrorizing his beach and then deciding he wants to blow up the Death Star. Austin finally gets as bored as the crowd is and slugs his way back. Taker hits him with a flying clothesline, though, and gets two. They clothesline each other, and Austin stomps a mudhole after he recovers. Austin whips Taker into Flair and knocks him unconscious. Sure. Austin hits a Stunner, but Flair is out. Taker goes low on Austin and chokeslams him for two. Taker is frustrated, so he grabs a chair. Flair won't let him use it, so Taker boots Austin for two. Austin goes for a Stunner but gets sent into Flair. Flair gets bumped again. They trade nearfalls, and Undertaker goes for the Taker Care of Business (The Dragon Sleeper -- blame Michael Cole for that little nugget). Austin reverses and goes for his own, but Taker rams him into the corner. Austin grabs the chair, but Taker boots it back into his face for the win at 27:00. Austin's foot was on the rope, but Flair didn't see it. That would lead to Flair's heel turn and a summer's worth of horrible booking. The nWo added nothing to the match other than standing around. The match started out okay, but once they tried to wrestle instead of brawl, it turned into a carwreck – and not the entertaining kind. *3/4
In the back, Jonathan Coachman intercepts Flair and shows him the replay of the ending of the match. Flair's reaction: Oh shit.
WWF Tag Team Titles: Billy & Chuck (w/Rico) vs. Al Snow & Maven.
The champs jump Maven and isolate him before Snow can even get out of the block. The crowd chants, "Rico's gay," so he tells them to talk to the hand. Ugh, he's such a bitch. They quickly realize that it would be much more productive to have Al play face-in-peril. He falls into Billy's crotch, though, and gets the hot tag to Maven. Maven isn't exactly a house of fire as he immediately gets hit with the Fameasser. Chucky superkicks Al, but Rico's interference backfires. That allows Maven to hit a crossbody for two. Snow chases Rico away, leaving Maven alone in a two-on-one. Chuck superkicks Maven, and Billy gets the pin at 6:00. This was just here to give people a bathroom break in between the Austin/Taker match and Hogan/HHH. 1/2*
Undisputed Title: Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan.
Awesome shot of Hogan staring over Hunter's shoulder before the match begins. Both guys were babyfaces coming in, but Hogan was riding the nostalgia wave. I think I'll mostly remember this match for Scott Keith putting every single snarky Hulk Hogan joke he'd been saving for a year and a half into one review. It made for an entertaining read, but instead of hating, I'll be appreciating. Not the match, mind you. No, hell hasn't frozen over quite yet. Instead, I'll appreciate the sheer brilliance of Triple H for wrestling himself for 20 minutes. Seriously, the pre-match meeting must have gone something like, "Can you bump?" "No." "Are there any big spots you can work in?" "No." "What can you do?" "I scratch a lot and do a legdrop." "Hmm. I can work with that." And work with it, Triple H does. They spend a lot of time trading wristlocks and tests of strength. Hunter goes a little heelish with a slap. Of course, that actually earns him a small "Triple H" chant. Hogan catapults HHH into the buckle and schoolboys him for two. Hogan actually hits an Ace Crusher! Holy shit! Hell *has* frozen over! Hunter clips Hogan's knee and focuses on it to firmly establish the heel role in the match. Hogan kicks out of a figure-four attempt, but Hunter clips him again. Hogan kicks out of another attempt, so Hunter gets pissed and pummels him so he'll be too groggy to kick out. After all that, Hunter puts the figure-four on the wrong leg. He does use the ropes, though, scoring more heel points with the crowd. Hogan powers it over, though, because he actually remembers wrestling Ric Flair. Hogan hulks up and hits the legdrop, but Chris Jericho takes out the referee and whacks Hogan with a chair. Hunter ain't taking the win that way, though, so he tosses Jericho. Hogan misses the legdrop and takes a Pedigree, but now the Undertaker runs down and takes out the referee again. The ref has taken more bumps than Hogan! Taker smashes Hunter in the face with the chair and drags Hogan on top. Hogan doesn't want to win that way, so he disposes of the Undertaker and then drops the leg on a prone Triple H, as if that's somehow more honorable. (22:06) Hogan gets a big pop for the win, but ratings plummeted, and Hogan took the blame (which was probably more due to the brand split and bad writing than anything he did). Of course, this all led to one of the funniest and saddest feuds in recent memory — Hogan vs. Undertaker. Anyway, this match was awful, and its only redeeming quality is Triple H's mapped-out plan for the first 18 minutes. *
The 411: It was clear the brand extension was going to be more of a bland extension. Ha ha! Thank you, Noel Coward for that joke. Putting the title on Hogan was a mixed bag at best. Ratings went down; buyrates were stagnant. Even merchandising was down from the same quarter the year before. Most of that (IMO), was due to the brand extension (and horrible, horrible booking) rather than one individual. More importantly, though, the face of the WWF was now the face of the past and not the face of the future. For over half a decade, their mantra was "we're better than WCW because we have younger, faster, quicker, better wrestlers and all they have is a guy coasting on the past." Well, now the WWF was pushing that same guy as their champion… and he was five years older! The WWF stopped being cool, and kids moved on to hard drugs, sex, or whatever their chosen method of pissing their parents off was.
Wow, all this time I never actually picked up that it was the "Taker" Care of Business.
Posted By: Andy Clark (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 12:32 AM
C'mon, that bit that came later where Taker drug Hogan behind his bike at 5 mph--while inexplicably Hogan was wearing ten tons of padding and a motorcycle helmet--was some of the finest wrestling comedy ever created.
Posted By: Ken B. (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Kurt Angle has had that "veteran" vibe since he debuted. It's hard to believe that he's been on TV for around only 8 years whereas guys like the Hardys, Edge, and Christian Have been around over ten years.
Posted By: Eric von Erich (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Kudos for the princess bride reference.
Posted By: the dude (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 12:50 PM
This and 2000 are my favorite WWE years.
Posted By: hamatosan (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 12:51 PM
There was nothing wrong with the Hogan match. In fact, Hogan tried to carry that match with some good moves like the flip turnbuckle move and the Diamond Cutter.
The only reason Hogan looked weak, was because they refused to have him beat Triple H like he beat Macho Man and Andre the Giant.
Hogan is the God of wrestling. If they would have allowed him to destroy Taker, Angle, etc.. and then job to Lesner -- business would have gotten better in 2002 - instead of having to wait three years for it to pick up again.
Posted By: fg76 (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 12:53 PM
I've always seen THIS PPV as the "nail in the coffin" for WWF, as it REALLY went downhill from hill. JD, you summed it up perfectly in the conclusion. Hogan was the past, he represented WCW for the past decade, Vince had already buried WCW, so the fans left. Then the switched the title ever PPV until Summerslam to try and save things, seesh.
Posted By: jackdespenser (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 01:23 PM
to fg78:
Wow...Hulk Hogan...carrying Triple H to a good match...Hogan the "God" of wrestling...WOW...you are absolutely amazing...should bury Undertaker...and drop the title to Lesnar...HAHAHA...I would love for Hogan to drop the title to a guy that left the company after two years...business would REALLY be up...too bad they screwed up Hogan's big push...WOW...SCREW THAT SOB HOGAN...this was 2002 not 1982...I loved Hogan as much as the next guy...but he should have retired after the match with the Rock...the only good thing he's done since then is destroy Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania...Austin did that better than Hogan ever did...and have a good match with Shawn Michaels...WOW...did he carry that match too?...nobody EVER had a good match with HBK...yeah right...even Chris Masters had a good match with HBK...Hogan isn't a "god" of anything...he's old and orange and he doesn't mean anything anymore...if you want to ride a wave of nastalgia watch a match from when Hogan was in his prime instead of crappy performances in this century...that's all I got...sorry for the rant...been drinking...PEACE!
Posted By: Ron (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 01:41 PM
I remember Edge/Angle being an awesome match.
Posted By: BFG08 (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 01:51 PM
"The WWF stopped being cool, and kids moved on to hard drugs, sex, or whatever their chosen method of pissing their parents off was."
Hahahahahaha
Posted By: Guest#3211 (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 02:13 PM
You thought this was the nail in the coffin - wait til the next review (assuming it's J.D's next stop): Hogan v Undertaker in what would be the worst main event of the the new millenium so far (until Steiner managed to outdo them at the Rumble the following year, and even that was good for comedy value watching the fans turn on him!)
Posted By: Ice (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 02:31 PM
I had COMPLETELY forgotten about the series of matches RVD and Eddy had in 2002, so thanks for the reminder. Is the ladder match at the next PPV, or was that just on a random Raw?
Posted By: s1rweeze (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 02:31 PM
I completely stopped watching the company at this point because of that untalented, orange-skinned piece of shit and only check out matches through youtube that don't involve him. That was by far the worst ppv main event the company had since.... well, since the last time the orange goblin main-evented.
You don't push young, talented guys in ****+ matches for years and then suddenly turn around and place it back on this waste of leather and bones and expect business to get better.
Hogan has been useless to the industry in every way for over 10 years, even since he f-ed up the Starrcade 97 main event with his ego.
F*CK HOGAN, I'm just glad that this Nick incident will help people outside of wrestling see him for the slimeball that we real wrestling fans have seen in him for years.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 03:31 PM
I felt this show was better than Wrestlemania 18.
Posted By: Guest#4490 (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 03:50 PM
J.D., this is quite possibly the greatest review you've ever done. Spot on with the WWE's horrid booking at the time and HILARIOUS references. I honestly can't thank you enough for doing these and making my day a little better every single time I read one. For crying out loud, I check for your new columns before I check my porn sites now!
Posted By: YouStayClassy (Registered) on June 20, 2008 at 04:13 PM
You might be right Ice, but this was when I tuned out (until I was flipping channels one thursday and saw two guys I'd never heard of before fighting for the US Title....John Cena and Carlito. I've been watching again ever since, but looking back, that match - that Carlito won BTW His debut -was the shits, as in not good) So for me this was the nail in the coffin. The Undertaker/Hogan was really painful to watch, after I picked up the History of the Undertaker DVD a few years back.
Posted By: Guest#1507 (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 04:15 PM
COTD - You are right on, BROTHER! AMEN!
Posted By: jackdespenser (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 04:17 PM
To fg76
You Are A F'n Moran, If You Love Hogan So Much, Maybe You Should Stop Taking Those Drugs!!!
Hogan Is A Selfish, Self Centered SOB!!!
F-Hogan. Flair Was Not Really Any Better When He Was Younger, But He Got Better With Age (And Being Humbled While In The WWE For His Late Years), But I At Least Respect Flair, Hogan Is Just A piece Of Trash.
Good Recap By the Way, I Love Being Reminded Of Past Matches Like This. Keep Up The Good Work!
Posted By: Jake (real) (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 04:21 PM
Blame Hogan. It never gets old. The IWC is a freaking broken record. Most of you aren't even wrestling fans, you're just fans of bitching about wrestling on forums. Hogan should have put over Sting stronger at Starrcade? He put him over at Starrcade and SuperBrawl and ratings only dipped from there. Nothing good this century? What has he done so bad for wrestling this century? He had one of the great WrestleMania Moments with Rock. He was given the title for one month before jobbing it to Undertaker. Then jobbing to Kurt Angle and then jobbing to Brock Lesnar. To a freaking bearhug, which was the first time fans bought Brock as a legitimate monster. Then he jobs to Rock again in 2003. Beats up Vince in a great brawl. Jobs to Big Show in MSG. He comes back in 2005 and is booked in a one shot dream feud with Shawn. Of course Shawn jobbed, he was the heel in a one shot feud...why would he win. Same for Hogan-Orton the next year. You guys are idiots. Flair is a better worker than Hogan...but how many of his matches did the average fan even see before they caught them on video? Austin was a draw...for 3 years. 4 if you give him 2002. Hogan was the biggest face draw for the biggest company in wrestling for 6 years. Then he was the biggest heel draw for a different biggest company in wrestling for 3 years. There is no argument who is the greatest sports entertainer of all time. Quit being sheep. All of you guys who say you used to love Hulk Hogan and then bury him as a wrestler and a person are full of shit. You started watching during the attitude era and jumped in with everybody else who hated Hogan. You just think you sound more credible by saying you used to be a fan.
Posted By: WhenAllElseFails (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 04:37 PM
Great review JD. I was reading this at work and I seriously had to stifle myself from laughing out loud at a couple points. Bravo. I cannot wait to read about that epic Hogan-Undertaker match.
Posted By: Mark (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 04:41 PM
I never leave comments, but today I'm just annoyed. Jake, Hogan is a piece of trash? Why because he wins matches you think he should lose or can't wrestle in your opinion? That makes him a piece of trash? Damn, some of you guys take this stuff way too seriously. I've been a fan for 25 years and would never knock on these guys, who do the things we only wish we could do, the way it's done every day on sites like these. Why not try mixing in something new every once in a while. Anybody who wins the title or succeeds sucks. Everybody loved Triple H, then he started dominating and he sucks. Everybody loved Cena til he got to the top and now he sucks. See also, Batista, Goldberg, Brock, Edge, Orton and Joe. As soon as any of them actually succeed the IWC turns on them. Why? Because if the guys we want to succeed actually do so what will we have to bitch about?
Posted By: WhenAllElseFails (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 04:43 PM
HULK RULES!
To idiot hogan haterz: too bad you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about aside from that shit spawned in your rot infested minds.
Posted By: HULKAMANIA BRUTHA! (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 05:08 PM
To WhenAllElseFails
I Have Actually Been Watching Wrestling Before There Was An Internet, And Before We got Our Spoilers From A Phone Line, Before Vince Went Public About It Being Scripted. I Grew Up Watching Jerry Lawler And The Von Ericks, B4 WWF Was Famous.
Can You Say The Same???
Posted By: Jake (real) (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 06:00 PM
Tajiri/Kidman, Eddie/RVD, and Edge/Angle are all really good stuff. Way better than most the midcard stuff we get today, heck even better than someone of the main events.
Posted By: Unknown1 (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 06:32 PM
The brand extention is one of the big things that killed wrestling's popularity. Once they split the roster, many longtime fans disappeared. As did alot of potential money. I'm sure Vince and co. is doing just fine putting on HHH main events for the last 6 years. But there's a reason alot of people don't care and aren't even fans anymore, the Draft.
Posted By: MBD (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 06:36 PM
Uh, question up the back, there's a Princess Bride reference in here? Or is that a new running joke I'm not aware of?
Posted By: Mathew Sforcina (Registered) on June 20, 2008 at 07:11 PM
"Jeff shoves Brock into the post… and the post submits!"
Funny.
Posted By: rwe1138 (Registered) on June 20, 2008 at 07:39 PM
You guys are missing one HUGE REASON that the brand extension failed and ratings plummeted. ROCK AND AUSTIN WERE BOTH GONE BY AUGUST. 5 months after the brand extension happened Rock and Austin were both gone. They were undoubtebly the two BIGGEST draws in the WWF from 98-02. No matter who they made the top stars or put the belt on NO ONE was gonna draw like Rock and Austin. I think putting the belt on Hogan was a desperate move by Vince hoping that it would draw people in that wanted to see him have one last run with the belt.
Posted By: Brian (Guest) on June 20, 2008 at 07:49 PM
to Matthew Sforcina:
"Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up."
Indigo's line.
Posted By: Aaron Hubbard (Registered) on June 20, 2008 at 08:29 PM
"Hogan should have put over Sting stronger
at Starrcade? He put him over at Starrcade and SuperBrawl and ratings
only dipped from there."
Hogan put over Sting? Really? All I saw was Hogan cleanly and decisively beat Sting at Starrcade after over a year of build before the decision was reversed and then shenanigans at SuperBrawl that still made it seem like Sting was inferior to the almighty Hulkster. The ratings didn't start their massive dip until sometime after WrestleMania 14 and it seemed apparent that the reasons were the rise of the super-popular Austin to main event status and the stigma around WCW that things weren't going to change.
"Nothing good this century? What has he done so
bad for wrestling this century? He had one of the great WrestleMania
Moments with Rock."
So did Austin and Foley.
"He was given the title for one month before
jobbing it to Undertaker."
He never should've had it. They ended up running Undertaker and HHH in the summer anyway.
"Then jobbing to Kurt Angle and then jobbing
to Brock Lesnar. To a freaking bearhug, which was the first time fans
bought Brock as a legitimate monster."
He jobbed to Brock only under the condition that he'd get a job back....for the championship. Yeah, what a great guy.
"Then he jobs to Rock again in
2003."
So?
"Beats up Vince in a great brawl."
Who hasn't?
"Jobs to Big Show in MSG."
Hadn't he lost to him before in WCW? And aren't they like buddies?
"He
comes back in 2005 and is booked in a one shot dream feud with Shawn.
Of course Shawn jobbed, he was the heel in a one shot feud...why would
he win."
Who was going to continue wrestling on a regular basis: Shawn or Hogan?
"Same for Hogan-Orton the next year."
See above. And that's not even mentioning the fact that Orton is younger than Michaels and had a Legend Killer gimmick. It's called building NEW stars.
"Flair
is a better worker than Hogan...but how many of his matches did the
average fan even see before they caught them on video?"
Does Flair need the recognition of the average fan to feel validated?
"Austin was a
draw...for 3 years. 4 if you give him 2002."
Yeah, let's just forget about his injuries.
"Then he
was the biggest heel draw for a different biggest company in
wrestling for 3 years."
A heel turn that was needed considering he was already getting booed. And where'd WCW end up again?
"You started watching during the attitude era
and jumped in with everybody else who hated Hogan."
Way to knockdown that strawman.
"You just think you
sound more credible by saying you used to be a fan."
You think you sound more credible by pretending to know exactly what people here are thinking and saying it as fact. Hogan fans; like a skipping record.
Posted By: His Bubbliness (Guest) on June 21, 2008 at 01:57 AM
The worst thing about Flair's heel turn is that he joined the nWo which was just...wrong.
Posted By: Jase (Guest) on June 21, 2008 at 04:33 AM
I enjoyed this time period for the WWF/E because hogan was back we had rvd rock and austin. the fact that everything started going downhill can not be blame on hogan. cause since 98 who is still in the main event people....HHH Y2J HBK....a causal fan who sees the same faces will think why tune in when its the same song n dance... now i enjoy those 3 but you have to admit having HHH still in the title picture is silly it would be different if he wasnt booked the way he is. look at the last 10 manias and you will see that if he wasnt champ he would see get the title back or if he wasnt on the show he would be in the title hunt soon enough it gets old. the same can be said about alot of other wrestlers. but i enjoyed the main event except for the ending.
Posted By: babyboy3686 (Guest) on June 21, 2008 at 03:00 PM
JD, you mention Scott Keith and fg76 shows up on here...it's bad enough reading his "fake/real" love for Hulk Hogan on Keith's blog, but now for him to bring that to the 411 too...oy vey!
Posted By: Devin (Guest) on June 21, 2008 at 08:46 PM
Seeing as how ratings for both shows went up after Hogan dropped the title to Taker, I'd say that he was most responsible for the ratings drop.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on June 22, 2008 at 03:50 PM
i need facts cause someone posted the ratings during his time as champ and they were steady also the rock and hbk would make their returns. not to mention lesnar came into play. lets not forget hogan got positive reactions from every crowd he went to. so again it isnt hogan whos to blame if thats the case REY Benoit HHH can be blame for ratings dropping as well during their reigns as champ. Vince gave us what we wanted and it worked it was never intended to be long term thing. life went on so its not like he destroy the business by winning if anything the fans who stop watching because hogan was champ are to blame because you didnt have to watch his match or segment you couldve watched jus for who ever your fav was.
Posted By: babyboy3686 (Guest) on June 22, 2008 at 05:13 PM
and now ladies and gentleman let the SUCK begin. The brand extension killed the WWE
Posted By: natedoggcata (Guest) on June 22, 2008 at 06:07 PM
Can someone tell me why YOU CAN'T POWERBOMB KIDMAN?
Posted By: APinOz (Guest) on June 22, 2008 at 09:36 PM
"I've always seen THIS PPV as the "nail in the coffin" for
WWF, as it REALLY went downhill from hill. JD, you summed it up
perfectly in the conclusion. Hogan was the past, he represented WCW
for the past decade, Vince had already buried WCW, so the fans left."
Exactly what I was going to say, but Jackdispenser said it first. Fun trip down memory lane. Going into this event I had told everybody that if Hogan won the belt, I'd be done with wrestling. I broke my vow about 4 days later.
Posted By: Michael O (Registered) on June 23, 2008 at 01:17 AM
nah, sorry...HHH sucked here. And this was the high point of him sucking. he was so gassed up and slow...he was plodding in the ring. And this match wasnt even close to the level of the match hulk had with the rock. cause 1 rock was so much better than HHH, and two, hhh just isnt close to as good as he is supposed to be. Its so great to see HHH go down to the leg drop...i could watch that over and over. He must have been so pissed Vince, and the fans for that matter, picked Hogan over him. Hahahaha!! HHH sucks and Hulk Rules.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on June 23, 2008 at 04:36 PM
"Hogan has been useless to the industry in every way for over 10
years, even since he f-ed up the Starrcade 97 main event with his
ego.
F*CK HOGAN, I'm just glad that this Nick incident will help people
outside of wrestling see him for the slimeball that we real wrestling
fans have seen in him for years."
haha you are just a loser. hogan hater. you prob think HHH is the best wrestler alive too.
Hogan is, always has been, and will be...Money, baby.
Hulk Rules.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on June 23, 2008 at 04:41 PM
Its just funny how over rated HHH is...He's was so bad in 02 when he came back from the over gassed quad tear. I hope he blows it out again so we dont have to see him in the ring for the next 30 years.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on June 23, 2008 at 04:45 PM
"haha you are just a loser."
And you're a retard, what's your point?
"hogan hater."
And damn proud of it
"you prob think HHH is the
best wrestler alive too."
He's better than Hogan ever was, as proof of his matches with Rock, Benoit, Y2J, Austin, Angle and even Cena. HHH can have great matches with just about anyone, whereas "Blowgan" drags down any ppv his worthless, untalented, overpaid ass appears on.
"Hogan is, always has been, and will be...Money, baby."
Please, this idiot caused the wrestling industry to bleed more money than the XFL.
He's most responsible for WCW having it's lowest ratings, buyrates and gate attendance ever, which eventually put them out of business.
The fingerpoke of doom caused more damage than Arquette's title reign ever did.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on June 24, 2008 at 05:00 PM
cotd whats up with the hogan hate. the internet hates him more then any live crowd. Hogan got me loving pro wrestling. Worthless come on look at his career tell was it the worst thing to happen to wrestling. no talent compared to flair no hes not on the same level but hogan got to were he is due to the fans wanted hogan to be just hogan. WCW is hogans fault umm yea the hulkster put that organzation in the ground remember WCW was always doing bad before hogan came look into that and you will see the proof. bad management cause the fall of wcw. no one gives hogan credit for what he gave the business and thats sad. im not saying kiss his a$$ but what im saying is we have to remember him as a performer cause thats what he did best perform for us and regardless of his workrate he gave us moments that will live forever.
Posted By: babyboy3686 (Guest) on June 24, 2008 at 07:25 PM
COTD...in short, you dont know shit. Hogan caused wrestling to bleed money?? Newsflash buddy, Hogan made everyone in the business more money everywhere he went. WWF in the 80's...WCW in the 90's...Dude, again, no need to go on...you just don't know shit.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on June 24, 2008 at 08:57 PM
yeah...and every promoter pays hogan that much money...because he's not worth it...and he doesn't make money for them. thats why they offer to pay him so much. because they are fucking stupid right? you really dont know shit pal.
Posted By: Joe Mastronardo (Guest) on June 24, 2008 at 08:58 PM
"yeah...and every promoter pays hogan that much money...because he's not worth it...and he doesn't make money for them. thats why they offer to pay him so much. because they are fucking stupid right? "
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Eric Bischoff was an idiot who wanted to only do things with Hogan whether or not it drew, and it was only when he turned heel back in 96 that he made any sort of contribution to the company, only to destroy it back at Starrcade 97.
And seeing as how his return to the main event scene in 2002 was a complete disaster along with his title run, it can be assumed that Vince McMahon is an idiot as well, seeing as how this was the same man who ran such angles as necrophilia, Al Wilson, Eddie's death exploitation, vs. God angle and two attempts to put himself in a "Vince is dead" angle, one on the anniversary of the Benoit tragedy, I can officially say that Vince is a complete moron, and it's only because he allows others input in the booking from time to time is the reason he hasn't gone bankrupt.
Hogan had his time when he was useful to wrestling, but that time is long, LONG gone. He was more responsible for WCW dying than any one individual and more responsible for the WWE dropping business than any other wrestler.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on June 27, 2008 at 04:04 PM
Actually, it would be the only "WWF" PPV after the brand extension.
Posted By: Joe (Guest) on June 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM
umm again COTD HULK HOGAN is the reason WCW is gone and the fact that WWE is in the shape that its in now....WOW umm TNT/TBS was gonna get rid of wrestling anyway...and if you dont believe me look at CW they dont want wrestling so their getting rid of it. the fact that viewers tune out because of hogan and hogan alone is a silly claim. hogan was on top for 1 month if that. am i a hogan fan yes but i know that the man is no saint but on screen he is dam entertaining and gets a pop from the live crowd. look at what happen after hogan drop the belt and honestly tell me if hogan is at fault for the shitty booking that was to come....people dont care about matches but they care about the entertainment side of the wwe. and what was being put on tv wasnt as entertaining as the austin/nwo era point blank. causal fans are who vince wants to get to watch not the hardcore fan who will watch no matter what. the fact that hogan knows best was doing better numbers then ECW or TNA should say something to what hogan can still do to the ratings....just a thought for next time give us facts to back up what you claim....
Posted By: babyboy3686 (Guest) on June 29, 2008 at 04:40 PM
"hogan was on top for 1 month if that."
And in that one month, ratings for both programs took a nosedive. Raw dropped by a full point to get it's lowest ratings since the mid 90s and Smackdown received its lowest rating ever at that point.
And while pure wrestling quality may not be as important as it is in places like Japan, it's a hell of a lot more important in NA now that it was 15 years ago. You can only push angles and characters for so long before the fans demand good wrestling matches. You can bet that if Scott Hall, Buff Bagwell, and Scott Steiner were pulling out ****+ matches they'd still have a job with the company today.
"TNT/TBS was gonna get rid of wrestling anyway"
Oh sure, and I suppose the fact that the company bled over $80,000,000 in 2000 (which Hogan was the most responsible for) had NO influence on that decision.
And so what if Hogan's reality show gets bigger ratings on a major network than shows like TNA and the 12:00 pm time slot of ECW, reality shows in general get bigger ratings.
Look at the surreal life, that show literally consists of d-list hasbeens who haven't made an positive or noticeable impression in Hollywood for over a decade and have hit rock bottom or worse but the show generally gets big ratings for MTV. Bret Hart's ex is about to get her own reality program that won't even feature Bret and that'll probably be solid in the ratings too.
If you wanna go with outside wrestling activities, Hogan's A&E biography several years ago flopped in the ratings and was the lowest of the Wrestler biographies on that station.
And his attempt to start up his own promotion back in 2001 wasn't even as successful as Bret's WWA in 2002, at least that organization got 2 ppvs in.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on June 29, 2008 at 08:04 PM
i know im not going to change your opinion but thats cool cause youve at least stated some of your reasons to why you feel like that but what you didnt answer is CW is getting rid of smackdown even though it is its highest rated show. AOL/Timewarner wanted to steer away from wrestling and the fact that it lost 60 million(not 80 even though thats still a hella lot of money) but before hogan came to WCW they still were losing money 23 million(1993). when he showed up they were losing 10 million(due to turner and wcw agreeing to pay hogan & company all that money) then they were able to turn a profit to 40milion a year and 350 million in sales(this is before the decline) WCW didnt become a threat until hogan showed up(a fact back by even the anti-hogan est) the nWo would come into play as well.
here are the number JD came up with as far as when we had one champ
Jericho – 8.55 (4.56 for Raw, 3.96 for Smackdown)
-Triple H – 8.90 (5.02 for Raw, 3.88 for Smackdown)
-Hogan – 7.80 (4.43 for Raw, 3.38 for Smackdown)
-Undertaker – 7.03 (3.82 Raw, 3.21 Smackdown)
-The Rock – 7.16 (3.92 Raw, 3.24 Smackdown)
check the time frame on when hogan was champ compare to everyone else and you will see that business goes up around the time that Y2J-HHH were champ then it goes down during the time that Hogan-Rock then it picks up for summerslam drops off again a cycle that has always been. it was a noticeable drop on ratings but its something that we still see today. vince would kill to have those numbers today. wrestling isnt cool to the general public anymore point blank...now as far as hogans bio on A&E that was during his WCW run and fans hated that man even more then today. it was half ass down because they couldnt get any WWF footage but tell me what other wrestlers have had bios(A&E and E!) done on them other than Benoit(we all know why),Rock,andre, and Hart. not trying to change you mind but im tired of all the hate. people make hulk hogan the sole reason why wrestling is in bad shape but no one sees that there are other reasons that lead up to his bad reputation. but the question i have is "If he was putting on 5* matches from how the IWC wants a match to be then would the hate still be there?" cause he wouldnt be any different then any other wrestler that does the same thing to this day.
Posted By: babyboy3686 (Guest) on June 30, 2008 at 03:31 PM
also the XWF, or XFW whatever it was called, was jimmy harts promotion Kevin Harrington founded it. hulk just performed on there a few times. also what were the ratings for his bio on a&e and compare then to the other wrestlers as well....sorry its jus a matter of backing up your facts
Posted By: babyboy3686 (Guest) on June 30, 2008 at 06:07 PM
The only reason Hogan had a higher overall average than Taker was b/c Hogan had chased away a great deal of fans with his reign. Taker's and Rock's reigns helped bring ratings up but not enough to win back the fans Hogan alienated. Now if Taker's reign has caused ratings to drop from 3.7 to 2.7 by King of the Ring, then you could claim that it was just as big of a failure.
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on July 02, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Only a mark would say that Triple H "wrestled himself". Triple H sucks as a wrestler.
Posted By: The Man (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 08:37 PM
