Dark Pegasus Video Review: The Rock: The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment (Disc One) Posted by J.D. Dunn on 05.26.2008
Finally, the Rock HAS COME BACK to DVD!
The Rock: The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment, Disc One by J.D. Dunn
Maybe you've heard of the guy.
Samoan Royalty: You've heard it all before, but if you haven't Rock's grandfather was High Chief Peter Maivia from Samoa. Maivia became a star in San Francisco and eventually promoted out of Hawaii. His wife took over the territory after his death, and even became Vice President of the NWA. His father was Rocky Johnson, a former tag champion along with Tony Atlas (although I could swear the announcer called him "Toby" Atlas). The Rock was a stud from birth and excelled in football, but that didn't pan out so he tried wrestling and was soon brought up to the WWF.
Intercontinental Title: Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Rocky Maivia (Raw 02.13.97).
This is from "Thursday Raw Thursday," a show that took place because of the Westminster Kennel Dog Show. It was also the show where Shawn Michaels announced he'd "lost his smile" and just couldn't job to Sid. Of course, the REAL reason to tune in was the Headbangers taking on Bob Holly & Aldo Montoya, but then you knew that. Rock was a very green rookie who was being shoved down the fans' throats due to his pedigree (no pun intended). Vince mentions that Helmsley's butler (Curtis Hughes) is not present (rumor: he was fired for being seen at an S&M club). Helmsley controls the action, carrying the Rock to a good match. He does a lot of heat-getting early with his little bow and ducking between the ropes when the Rock gets fired up. Rock hits a few quick moves to keep things interesting, but Helmsley maintains control for the most part. Honky Tonk Man wanders down to join commentary. Rock misses a charge and posts himself, so Hunter goes after the shoulder. He rolls through a crossbody for two and hits a neckbreaker for two more. Helmsley drops Rocky on his head with a piledriver. ONE, TWO, THR-NO! Even Vince can't believe it, and we all know Announcer Vince is right 99-percent of the time. Helmsley sets Rock on top and hits the SUPERPLEX! Vince thinks it's over again, but it only gets two. Helmsley sets up for the Pedigree, but Rock is out. Honky goes all Martin Kove and screams for Hunter to finish him. Rock suddenly pops up and small packages Helmsley for the win and the title at 13:30. Rocky gets a pretty big pop for the win, but that wouldn't last long. Hunter carried the match, and Rock did his thing. That was enough for a surprisingly good IC Title match for the time. ***
Rock the Ruler: The people turned on the Rock pretty quickly after his debut, so he turned heel and joined the Nation of Domination. He wasn't satisfied with playing second fiddle to Faarooq, though, so he supplanted him.
Intercontinental Title: The Rock (w/The Nation of Domination) vs. Owen Hart (Raw 04.06.98).
Obviously, Owen had not yet joined the Nation. Owen avoids a charge and armdrags Rock down. Rock escapes and slaps Owen in the back of the head. Kama Mustafa trips Owen from the outside, so the ref tosses the Nation. Both Jim Ross and Michael Cole say the Nation is being sent "back to the showers," but why they would need showers after so little work is beyond me. Rock hits the People's Elbow, but it was just a humiliation move at this point. Owen fires back and hits a neckbreaker for two. The corner pummel and leg lariat get two. Owen blocks the Rock Bottom and hits an enzuigiri. SHARPSHOOTER! Chyna runs down and nails Owen with a baseball bat at 5:46. Owen picks up the win by DQ, but not the title of course. **1/4
Nation vs. DX: Owen became the co-leader of the Nation of Domination because it's wrestling and that kind of thing can happen in wrestling. DX became a big babyface faction, though, and that led to an all-out feud with the Nation.
King of the Ring Quarterfinal: The Rock vs. Triple H (w/Chyna Raw 06.22.98).
Rock attacks from behind and hits a back elbow for two. HHH comes back with a neckbreaker. Rock ducks a swing and hits a DDT. He stops to mock Chyna, though, and only gets two. People's Elbow gets two. Rock punches a mudhole in the corner and chases Earl Hebner off. Hunter comes back with some Randy Savage-esque jabs. Rock takes it to the floor and shoves HHH into the steps, hoping for a countout victory. Oh, but Chyna hops in behind the ref's back and DDTs the Rock. Helmsley gets two off that. Rocky reverses a sleeper to one of his own. Helmsley shoves out of it, and Chyna climbs up to smash Rock in the head. Rock puts on the brakes, though. Helmsley tries to capitalize with the Pedigree, but Rock goes low while the ref is tied up with Chyna. Rocky finishes with the Fisherman's Suplex at 8:10. The Nation and DX both run in for a huge fracas. IT'S PANDELERIUM! Rock clears out. It's amazing how well both guys played their roles here and got even better when the roles were reversed. **3/4
Rock's Big Chance: We see clips of the Rock being harangued by Vince McMahon because Vince didn't like "the People." It was all just a ruse, though, because the idea was to get Rock into the finals of the tournament to crown a new WWF Champion.
WWF Title Tournament, Finals: The Rock vs. Mankind (Survivor Series '98 11.15.98) .
Mankind, of course, had an easy way into the finals with the exception of the Austin match. That, thanks to the McMahons. The Rock also had a fairly easy path to the finals thanks to the McMahons, but that was seemingly through the bumbling of the Bossman. Speaking of the McMahons, they make their way back to ringside as Rock fights out of a chinlock. Apparently, according to Mick, they had tried to improvise up to that point, and neither of them knew what to do, so Mick just called the next few minutes of the match while in the chinlock. Rock takes Mankind to the floor and works in that chairshot-to-the-ringsteps-on-the-opponent's-head spot. Mick tries a Cactus Elbow, but the Rock avoids it, and Mankind goes through the Spanish Announce Table, causing injuries that would knock him out of action in the summer of 1999. Back in, PEOPLE'S ELBOW! ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Mankind kicks out and comes back with the Kobashi Driver. MR. SOCKO! Rock goes low to counter the Mandible Claw and quickly locks in the Sharpshooter out of nowhere. McMahon rushes over to the timekeeper and has him ring the bell, giving Rock the win and his first WWF Heavyweight Title at 17:18. Oh, it was all a shocking swerve! They wanted the Rock as their champion all along. In a "Keyser Soze" moment, everything seems to click as the fans realize that the McMahons orchestrated the last few months just to get the Rock into position as "Corporate Champion." They took the controversial Montreal finish and turned into the big angle that would fuel the next well, when are references to that going to end? *3/4
Rivalry With Mankind: With that victory, Rock became the youngest WWF Champion ever. Mankind became a superstar in the absence of Steve Austin, but he always seemed to get screwed out of the title. Finally, they decided to have a Last Man Standing match.
WWF Heavyweight Title, Last Man Standing: Mankind vs. The Rock (St. Valentine's Day Massacre (02.14.99) .
Tentative face pop for the Rock, then a HUGE "Rocky sucks" chant. Mankind turns his back on the Rock, allowing him a free shot. Rock goes after Mankind's knee. They brawl all the way up to the entrance, and Rock gets whipped into the entrance structure. Rock DDTs Mankind through a table, and they tease a countout. A backdrop gets another near countout. Back in, Mankind sets for Mr. Elbow, but the Rock moves. To the floor, Rock drops Mankind with a few suplexes (but not of the rolling variety). Rocky joins commentary while the ref counts Mankind. Mankind jumps him in the middle of commentary and drops a Cactus Elbow on the Rock who was on the announce table. Back in, Rock avoids the steel steps and starts smashing Mankind's knee with the chair. He misses a swing, though, and nails himself with a chairshot on the rebound. To the outside, Mankind sets up the Rock on the announce table, but Rock counters to a backdrop, prompting Cole to go into a fit. "NO! NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOO!!!" So, Padme is dead or something? Rock then does something that is freak-out worthy by tossing the steel ring steps onto Mankind from the ring! Then, all Cole can come up with is "god darnit!" Back in, the People's Elbow puts Mankind down, and the Rock debuts his song "Smackdown Hotel." The fans even sing along with the Rock! Mankind suddenly jumps him with the Mandible Claw, though. Rock takes an eight count before going low on Mick. Mankind brings out Mr. Socko, but Rock counters to the Rock Bottom. They both stagger up, and both guys nail each other with chairshots! That leads to a double countout and a draw at 21:50. Nobody likes that decision, but the match was tremendously entertaining. The "I Quit" match was a little better as far as intensity, but this one had sing-along with the Rock night. By the way, this was the fourth consecutive PPV match they had, and the fourth consecutive match to end in a screwjob. That's dedication! ***3/4
So It Continues: Nothing was settled in the Last Man Standing match, so we get
WWF Heavyweight Title, Ladder Match: Mankind vs. The Rock (Raw 02.15.99).
#1 contender Steve Austin is on commentary. Mankind jumps Rock from behind and tosses him into the steps. Rock returns the favor, whipping Mick into (and over) the steps. Ouch! Rock goes after Mankind's injured leg (which the Rock injured the night before). Rock grabs the ladder, but Mick knocks it back on him and smashes it with a chair. MISTER ELBOW! Mankind goes up but leaves himself open to a chairshot by the Rock. Rock chopblocks Mankind's knee and sandwiches it in the ladder. He follows that up by smashing it with the chair. Michael Cole begs for mercy. Rock goes up, but Mankind yanks him back down and gives him a LOUD chairshot. Mankind goes up now, but Rock nails him with the chair. Mankind falls over and gets tied in the ropes. Rock nails him a few times, but Mankind goes low. They brawl out into the crowd where Mankind knocks Rock down on the barricade and drops an elbow on him. Rock battles back and clotheslines Mankind back in. Jeff Lloyd is in the audience. I know because there's a sign and arrow that tells me so. Mankind reverses a whip and sends Rock into the steps. He gets REALLY mad and slams the steps on Rock's back. They brawl over to the Spanish table where Rock goes low and ROCK BOTTOMS MANKIND THROUGH THE TABLE! Rock goes up. I should point out that the belt is way off-center for some reason. Mankind recovers, goes low, and hits the Double-Arm DDT. Foley gets Mr. Socko, but Rock shoves the ladder in his face (Mick's, not Socko's). They brawl on the top of the ladder, and Mankind gets the Mandible Claw. Oh, but here comes Paul Wight (not yet known as the Big Show). He delivers the CHOKESLAM to Mick. His chokeslam used to look much cooler when he rotated. That allows Rock to go up and grab the title at 13:01. Austin gives Rock a Stunner after the match. Typical all-over brawl from 1999. This one was pretty good, though, thanks to Mick's general craziness and the Rock's natural entertainment quotient (or NEQ). ***3/4
Two of the Most Charismatic Superstars Ever: That led to Rock vs. Austin the two biggest superstars ever.
WWF Heavyweight Title, No DQ: The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (WrestleMania XV 03.28.99).
Commissioner Shawn "Crockett" Michaels interrupts and removes Vince McMahon as special referee. He also screws up his promo, tipping the end of the match. Austin and Rock fight up in the crowd, which seemed to be required from 1997-2000. They fight all the way to the staging area where Austin tosses him into the railing. Austin tries a piledriver, but Rock backdrops him into the lighting track. Austin comes back and stomps his nuts. Austin chokes him with an extension cord and whips Rock into the WrestleMania entrance sign. Back to the announce position, Rock gives him the Aquafina Mist! Austin Snake Eyes him on the ring barrier and gives him an elbow through the Spanish table. Another one breaks the table completely. Austin returns the Aquafina spray, and they get back in the ring. Rock rolls through and wraps Austin's leg around the ringpost. Back in, Rock gets the Rock Bottom out of nowhere. ONE, TWO, THR-NO! Rock grabs a chair, but Austin grabs it away from him. Austin swings but takes out the referee! Austin blocks a chairshot but can't get the Stunner. Rock wears him out with the chair and takes him down with a chairshot. Tim White comes in and counts two. Rock settles things down with a chinlock. Austin fights out of a chinlock but runs into a Samoan Drop. ONE, TWO, THR-NO! Rock gets pissed at the ref and takes him out with a Rock Bottom. He turns and runs into the STONE COLD STUNNER! Rock, of course, does his usual oversell. Earl Hebner runs down. ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Vince McMahon comes back down and distracts Austin in a play on the Royal Rumble finish. McMahon decks Earl Hebner and joins the Rock in stomping Austin down. BUT WAIT! THERE'S MANKIND! Mankind smacks Vince out of the ring and replaces Earl Hebner. Austin gets two off a schoolboy and hits the Thesz Press. Rock comes back with the Rock Bottom. The Corporate Elbow misses, though, and Austin counters another Rock Bottom to the Stunner for the win and the title at 16:52! I'm sure my rating may seem a little high to some, but there is a difference between overbooking and epic booking. This is the one place on the card (and only place) that Russo managed to tie everything he'd been doing for the past few months together in a coherent way. It doesn't match up with their WMX-7 match, but it's still a good Mania main event. ****
The 411: Okay, so the first few years don't show why he is the most electrifying man in sports entertainment, but as we reach the beginning of 1999, we see him on the cusp of greatness.
Posted By: FUZEY (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 12:43 AM
Cena > Rock. Don't bother arguing, marks. You know deep down I'm right!
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 12:52 AM
mmmmm, Cena > Rock, HHH > Cena, Rock > HHH, hey a circular argument.
Posted By: pdh (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:06 AM
yeah Brad please tell me you're kidding right? I almost wrote a response but I don't know anyone would even come close to agreeing with you. Heck just watch the HOF ceremony this year to see who was better. Face it Brad the Cena thing is over and no one will care in a few years about him.
Posted By: LMAO at brad (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:11 AM
"Cena > Rock. Don't bother arguing, marks. You know deep down I'm right!"
You are calling people who like Rock better than Cena the marks? LOL. This ten year old is a riot. Anyway, I can't wait for this DVD set. It is going to be awesome.
Posted By: Keep the reviews comin' J.D. (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:22 AM
Yes, this "Cena thing" has no legs. He doesn't move merchandise, consistently have the top DVD on the best seller lists, or get the biggest reaction of anyone on the roster. He'll be losing to Val Venis and Funaki in dark matches before heading down to FCW before no time.
Three things you "Rock swallowers" need to realize:
1. Cena can actually do promos off the cuff. From his freestyle rhymes when he started to come into his own to the more passionate promos he delivers today. During The Rock's prime, Patterson penned everything for him down to the letter. Check the dirt sheet archives and you'll see I'm right. I know it hurts you all to learn the truth, but it's about time you face it.
2. Cena's style, like it or hate it, is his own. Rock was a composite of multiple styles he piecemealed together. His catchphrases? Iceman Parsons made "Rooty Poo" famous before The Rock was born. "Testicular fortitude?" That came from a Mick Foley promo and Rock took it for his own? His punching style? Take a look at some Razor Ramon and nWo Scott Hall footage and see where he got that from. And the barebones, no-nonsense black tights, black boots look? Some guy you might have heard of named "Stone Cold" Steve Austin built a career off it. But this is the guy that gets anointed a pro wrestling trendsetter?
3. As silly as the "5 Knuckle Shuffle" is, Cena never used it as a fucking finisher. How many wrestlers had to actually sell that abomination as a credible finisher? Countless.
I'm not saying The Rock wasn't good and a part of wrestling's renaissance. He most certainly was. But the people who shit on Cena but hang from Rock's balls must be retarded because Cena has carried others to solid matches that Rock never could. Rock had trouble getting good matches with Undertaker or Kane at times. Cena had a near classic with Umaga and two entertaining matches with Great Khali. Nuff said.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:43 AM
Is this guy serious?
Posted By: Guest#1949 (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:59 AM
"we all know Announcer Vince is right 99-percent of the time."
HAHAHAHA! Oh yeah!
"1, 2, HE GOT HIM!!! NO HE DIDN'T...."
When I was a kid and would listen to him yell that after each and every lame-ass pin attempt, I was wondering if that guy is really that dumb and who the fuck gave him the job since he was by far the worst commentator I've heard by that time...
Posted By: WWF Fan (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:20 AM
"yeah Brad please tell me you're kidding right?"
Of course I'm kidding. What, did you think I'm retarded??
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:28 AM
Well, it's obvious that Brad B is either a 10-year-old boy or a woman. That's the only excuse I can think of.
The difference between The Rock and John Cena? WWE used the "Die Rocky Die" chants to turned The Rock into one of the biggest heels of the '90s, then turned around and used the "Cena Sucks" chants to turn Cena into motherfucking Superman and shove him down everybody's throats.
Posted By: Cosmo (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:55 AM
OMG cena > rock.
Funniest joke ever!
Wait your actually serious?
Posted By: Matt P (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 03:26 AM
Im not expecting classic matches with this dvd, well certainly not on disc one anyway, but he was a hell of a lot more entertaining then Cena will ever be.
Roll on discs 2 & 3 where the Rock improved in the ring.
Posted By: Jbardo (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 05:12 AM
you do realise cena stole his catch phrases too right?
Posted By: jb (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 06:50 AM
Brad is just a troll.Every wrestling fan knows the rock will always be better than cena.
Posted By: Ed (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 07:14 AM
Brad = Troll
and
Successful Troll Is Successful
Posted By: natedoggcata (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 09:39 AM
I'd rather watch a Cena match atleast you know Cena won't turn his back on wrestling. Atleast you know Cena isn't embarassed to be assiocated with wrestling.
Posted By: DP (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 09:43 AM
Yup, I'm a troll. And I'm a 10 year old. And I'm trolling to get a reaction. But funny how nobody disputed anything I said about Rock ripping off catchphrases and mannerisms (which he did), having his promos scripted (which was documented), and using the world's most ridiculous move as a credible finisher (which you're idiot if you argue against). Nor could they argue that Cena for all his "no-talent and no-skill" persona, has carried dead weight to great matches something Rock couldn't with credible performers.
But that's OK. Continue to be sheep and buy into the "CENA SUX DUDE LOLZ" philosophy.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Cena never got good matches out of Khali and Umaga, his promos are scripted, the Champ Is Here Phrase is stolen from Samo Joe, You Can't See Me is stolen from some 80's movie, and whatever source you got info regarding Rock's promos is full of shit. The Rock himself has said that he wrote outlines for his own promos and would improvise the rest. Bye bye troll.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 11:38 AM
You could have a week's worth of columns on Cena--Rock.
I'm just gonna say Rock=AC/DC(entertaining, reliable, one hell of a show, a bit derivative(who isn't?), and everybody can dance to it.
Cena-Aerosmith(good jams, likeable, but annoying at times(also a great show).
HHH=Metallica(overdoes everything+ talx too much)
Hogan=Ozzy(lay it down dude).
Taker=Zeppelin(shut up & play Stairway)
This could go on all night.
Posted By: fishstix68 (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Don't get me wrong, I want to like Cena. He's good on the stick, and he's a solid in-ring performer. It's just that his whole act's been getting stale for a while now. If they'd do something to freshen up his gimmick, like a heel turn or something like that, then maybe people wouldn't think he sucks so badly.
Though I'd say a heel turn would be out of the question, because he's so popular with kids. WWE isn't going to risk hurting their merchandise sales by making children hate the company's top star.
Posted By: Cosmo (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 12:22 PM
I'd rather watch a Cena match atleast you know Cena won't turn his back on
wrestling. Atleast you know Cena isn't embarassed to be assiocated with
wrestling.
So if Cena got a chance to be a hollywood star he would turn it down? you honestly believe that do you? doubt it somehow.
Posted By: Jbardo (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Cena is the first wrestler I ever heard use the word "turdburglar" on the air. I wish he would bring that one back.
Posted By: anon (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Cosmo: Great points. But you missed the #1 reason why you can't turn Cena bad:
So many fans have been clamoring for it and have been dying for him to develop an attitude circa 2003 that he'll start getting cheered like mad. Just like Austin in 2001, Rock in 2003, Jericho and HBK numerous times, and to a lesser extents, Sting in 1999 and Goldberg in 2000. I think Vince would rather have the uniqueness of Cena's reactions, i.e., a thunderous response of cheers and boos like nobody before him. If they turn Cena, it's likely just a matter of time before they have to change him back which is pointless.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:11 PM
Brad, you're a troll. You're the one who decided to make this about Cena. Anyway, Cena has stolen catchphrases too. The Champ Is Here? Everything about that, including the delivery, was stolen from Samoa Joe. You Can't See Me was from an 80's movie. Whatever source you got the info regarding Rock's promos from is full of shit. Rock has said himself that he would write an outline of his promos and then improvise. Cena's promos are scripted these days and he tries to be like Rock and falls flat.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 01:23 PM
JJ: Then I must be a unique troll because I actually make valid points and compelling arguments. Again, nobody has debated that Cena carries deader weight to better matches than Rock ever did, and never used his lame "theatrics-based move" as a finisher.
I can't help it if you choose not to believe the promo story. That was all over the dirt sheets in the late 90s (likely before you became an IWC member). And please enlighten me on how Cena stole "you can't see me". Nobody ever heard that claim before you brought it up.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:03 PM
He said it in an interview. Hell, he even said where he got it from in a 5 Questions With He Champ segment. It's on that DVD that my friend forced me to sit through. And I don't think Cena has carried dead weight too well. We don't have proof for Rock because they always put him against top guys, and the dead weight he went against are people that not even Bret Hart couldn't carry.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:23 PM
Ad Brad, why the FUCK did you even bring up Cena? It wasn't needed. This was a review of a Rock DVD, and Cena had nothing to do with, yet you decided to start a Rock vs. Cena argument when it wasn't relevant. And you seem to believe just about every rumor you ever hear. Who the hell would ever trust info about Scott Keith that came from Hyatte?
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:26 PM
Brad, the running theme here is that nobody cares what you have to say. "It was all over the dirt sheets" - oh well in that case it must be true, because the dirt sheets are 100% accurate aren't they? Look at you, saying "likely before you became an IWC member..." like an arrogant chump, as if you're privy to some insider info. This article has nothing to do with Cena, keep your man-crush on him to yourself.
Posted By: Killah (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:41 PM
Brad Rock carried plenty of bad wrestlers to good matches.
Yeah Cena never moved as much merchandise as Rock thats a fantasy created by Cena marks. Rock carried UT and Kane to actual wrestling matches not the garbage brawls Cena needs to have a great match. You named Umaga and Great Khali both of his "great" matches were gimmick matches the original non gimmick matches were horrible even batista carried Khali to a respectable match. We saw with JBL last month Cena can't carry anyone unless its in a garbage brawl. Rock did his share of garbage matches that turned out great and oh yeah was actually entertaining. By the way Cena doing freestyle went out 5 years ago and he is just bland now. Rock carried the torch perfectly while Austin was out for a year with a neck injury keeping the company going.
By the way to the tool who said Rock turned his back on wrestling the guy retired and has appeared on shows that are asked of him. Just because he actually has mainstream popularity unlike Cena doesn't make him a sellout.
Posted By: sure (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:42 PM
Brad I'm trying to be nice here but Cena didn't exactly have any classic matches with UT either. Angle and HBK had to carry him to his best matches. By the way Rock's finishing move was really the Rock Bottom and if you're really going to go there the stupid "5 knuckle shuffle" is much lamer as a set up move the the peoples elbow which would usually hit someone hard in the chest.
Rocks promos are classic watch any of them. I saw Cena attempt to do his own jokes a couple of months ago on Raw and were so bad he nearly got booed out of the building.
Posted By: dude come on (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 02:48 PM
This is ridiculous, and I'm not going to give Brad the benefit of real attention, but I just want to point out one thing (since he claims to have such an original argument). Your claim that Rock's promos are scripted is just asinine, especially in comparison to Cena's promos. How about I give you a homework assignment: please watch "This is Your Life" from 1999 and get back with me. The full, nearly half hour thing. If you think that was all scripted, then I want some of whatever you're smoking.
For extra credit, watch his full speech from the Hall of Fame this year. Clearly Pat Patterson told Rock beforehand to walk up to the podium and swat the faux-gnat that was bothering his Mom when she spoke. Clearly.
Posted By: The REAL MP (Registered) on May 26, 2008 at 03:04 PM
JJ.
You hate Cena. You despise Cena. You shit Cenas for breakfast and yet you WATCHED his DVD. Im sorry, you;re either a weak ass push over or you're just full of shit. If you hate him so much and fall asleep when he's on tv why in the hell would you watch a dvd of his. "My friend forced me!" Well, do what you do when you come on here. Call your friend a troll and insult the hell out of them until they say "Ok, we wont watch it."
Posted By: WTF (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 03:49 PM
stop whining you Cena mark no one cares about you guys this column was for the rock one of your tools who can't stand. His DVD by the way Brad isn't the top DVD his time is coming to an end as the HUGE draw thats been a fantasy driven by Cena marks.
Cena marks you seriously look like real losers for comparing Cena to the rock. To the one person who was trying to be fair there isn't a comparison. Cena is despised by many fans people love the rock because you know he can entertain people and has been a huge draw for years. Let me make it easy for you Cena marks if Rock came back today no way Cena is anywhere near the top even the young kids would go to him. Rock had the same fan base except larger. Rock knew how to hold on to his audience and oh yeah was brilliant as a heel and as a face.
Posted By: WTF WTF (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 04:14 PM
JJ.
You hate Cena. You despise Cena. You shit Cenas for breakfast and yet you
WATCHED his DVD. Im sorry, you;re either a weak ass push over or you're just
full of shit. If you hate him so much and fall asleep when he's on tv why in
the hell would you watch a dvd of his. "My friend forced me!" Well,
do what you do when you come on here. Call your friend a troll and insult the
hell out of them until they say "Ok, we wont watch it."
I listened to music but he turned up the volume. And besides, I actually liked Cena pre-2006.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 04:19 PM
sorry everyone I am just recovering from my lobotomy and really just compared john cena to the rock. I'm sorry I'm trying to get over the effects of having a portion of my brain removed thus saying things as stupid as that.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 07:52 PM
I dont think for a mintue that Cena's "thing" is over. I think it's just a matter of him re-eventing himself in the ring, either that or go back to what brought him to the dance in the first place. Although I like Cena I can admit he is getting stale and kissing the ass of the fans isnt getting him anywhere. But despite the boo's and the comments from some please believe he is definitely a assest to WWE and will be for years to come. Now as for Rock as great as he is he gone and I dont see him coming back to wrestling anytime soon. Cena is here like it or not he is the face of WWE whether he in main events or not. Once he is done shooting that movie the title will be back on him this time hopefully he'll be a vicious ass heel
Posted By: CenaFan (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 08:32 PM
No one even knows who John Cena is except for fans of the show you all can call him the face of the company or the draw but reality is no one cares when hes gone the ratings never go down they stay the same or the money made by the company doesn't go down in fact last year when Cena when it down actually went up from the year before.
Posted By: chuckle (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 09:06 PM
Cena is the face of the WWE you know the company that is losing a lot of viewers in part because of Cena so let the Cena marks enjoy this era they're the only ones left and there aren't too many left.
Posted By: hes right actaully (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 09:09 PM
I think ya'll are so caught up in your hate for Cena that you cant see the big picture. Cena is only as good as the guy he's wrestling against. Outside of Shelton Benjamin and Jeff Hardy with the exception of HHH everyone on Raw Sucks EVERYONE...Smackdown SUCKS PERIOD and I dont want to get started on ECW If you want to spew hate on someone spew it on the writers and producers because truth be told THE ROCK just so happened to come along when the WWE was really determined to give WCW some competition. If he was around now with these crappy storylines, and the lack of talent due to the brand extensions he'd suck too. Towards the end his rivalry with Goldberg and Hogan II sucked, after and if it wasnt for Stone Cold The Rock would have never been. I can agree that the WWE isnt the same as it was 10 years ago but the Attitude era is OVER...get over it.
Posted By: CenaFan (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 09:56 PM
To the douche who used my name: Wow, you're a clever little boy. Are you virtually high-fiving your pretend friends in your War of Worldcraft chatroom for making a funny?
To those who hate on Cena: you don't have to like him and you can ignore my facts about the Rock (as you've all done throughout these comments.) But when you say he isn't the face of the company, he doesn't move merchandise, and his popularity is a "myth of Cena marks", you really look like a fucking retard. Gain some perspective.
Killah (LOL!): I wasn't talking down to JJ. He's admitted in the past that he's only 16 and Rock came into prominence when he was 6. That's all I was trying to say.
JJ: Hyatte had no reason to lie. We all know Keith liked to talk himself up as this wrestling knowledge guru who any booking team would be lucky to have even though he was just another (fat) mark with a column. Hyatte simply exposed him for getting turned down for a job multiple times because he had the proof (an insider in the HR dept).
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 10:12 PM
What FACTS? You cited "dirtsheets of the late 90s." Who wrote what for what sheet and when? I know, a little credibility is way too much to ask of a Cena fan.
BTW I was a huge fan then too and I don't remember the IWC saying jackshit about Rock's promo's being scripted or copying from people. And speaking of ignoring arguments, you totally ignored REAL MP...
Posted By: Guest#6695 (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Oh yeah, when did Rock EVER use "testicular fortitude" as a catchphrase? Never saw that T-shirt. He may have said it once. That was always, always, always Mick Foley's phrase. This Brad chump knows nothing of what he speaks.
Posted By: Guest#2875 (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Mick Foley himself noted Rock using that phrase. Yet, as you said yourself, its always been something Mick has used on air.
And again, no mention of making "rooty poo" a phenomenon without giving proper credit to Iceman Parsons?
I saw MP's comments. Rock did become a better improviser over time (likely due to his working with Austin and Foley for years). But when The Rock persona first started catching on, Pat Patterson scripted his promos word-for-word. He might have made it his own and given it personality, but this wasn't your typical "here's some bulletpoints; now go out there and deliver."
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 10:48 PM
What are you talking about? When Rock debuted the "Do you smell what The Rock is cooking?" catchphrase, he improvised it. It wasn't scripted for him to say it. He just did. While they probably wrote his stuff up until mid-1998, his more famous material from 1999 was improvised. From singing his version of Heartbrea Hotel against Mankind, commentating his matches, calling Kane the Big Red Retard, inventing the Big Slow nickname, and the entire This Is Your life segment, to minor backstage stuff like singing happy birthday to an old lady and getting pissed at the cops, Rock improvised everything.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 11:06 PM
everybody...please shut up.
Posted By: brian (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 11:19 PM
I was told "roody poo" comes from "roody poot," which was used in one of the blaxploitation movies (think Shaft) of the 70's. I can tell you definitively, however, that Rock did NOT come up with "layin' the smack down" and that people had been saying that for years. So what? If you wanna split hairs, every bit of Ric Flair's persona was borrowed from Buddy Rogers. So what is your point, exactly?
Posted By: The REAL MP (Registered) on May 26, 2008 at 11:23 PM
"Rooty poo" was a common insult that Iceman King Parsons used towards his enemies in the early-to-mid 80s during his World Class run.
For those who don't know or are too young to remember, Parsons was a charismatic African American wrestler who sided with the Von Erichs vs. the Freebirds and became a hated enemy of the Von Erichs in the later years in the company.
If the phrase originally came from a movie, fine. But Parsons was the first to use it in wrestling promos and new fans think it's something Rock came up with.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 26, 2008 at 11:57 PM
Brad you're getting hammered you know you could have said in my opinion I think Cena is the better guy but you made it sound like its fact and anyone who disagreed was a moron and you picked a terrible subject to try to debate sorry man on this one you are just wrong Rock would have made a fool out of Cena in a promo because he knew how to get the crowd going. Knowing what to say and how to deliver it are two different things. Thats how Cena got over to begin with was his deliverance. There were few entertainers like the Rock and Cena is not in that class.
Posted By: dang (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 12:14 AM
and Brad what of Cenas is his style? "The Champ is here" how many times has that been said over the years including by Ali among others. The White Rapper? What no Vanilla Ice rip offs over the years. Whats is his unique style? I see nothing unique about it.
Posted By: oh oh (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Brad you keep saying facts you haven't stated too many facts just a bunch of opinions with little factual evidence.
To CenaFan, Rock was in part made by Austin but Cena was made by guys like Angle, UT among others. If you don't want to talk about the attitude era uh look at what this column is about you know hello the Rock.
By the way Rock wasn't good at the end of his run? oooooooooooooook his heel run in 03 was one of the biggest highlights of the year with his promos and matches weren't bad at all.
Posted By: See thats your problem (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 12:26 AM
ok heres some perspective like I pointed out the WWE lost no money no ratings or buyrates while Cena was out last year theres your reality try arguing that. HHH and Hardy draw the same pops and both do just fine at the merchandise stand.
Posted By: yeah sure (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 12:29 AM
The thing is that even if we assume the validity of Brad B's criticisms of the Rock, they still don't hold up as a argument for Cena's superiority.
For starters, the STFU - or to be more specific, Cena's execution of it - is just as ridiculous as the People's Elbow. The difference is that it was the fan reactions which turned the People's Elbow from a set-up move into a viable finisher. Besides which, realism is not the be all and end all in wrestling.
Secondly, Cena's style is NOT his own. He simply took the wigger stereotype and ran with it. More recently, he's tried (and, in my opinion, failed) to take on the edge of an Austin or Rock badass champion. I can't fault him for doing that, mind you, because it's very difficult to find anything completely original in modern wrestling.
The point about promos is especially weak. It's as if you're trying to suggest that anyone who attempts a wrestling promo without any outside help automatically outclasses the Rock.
There's no objective scale for measuring the merits of a particular wrestler. There's only consensus opinion arising from reasoning and debate. Saying that any fan who prefers the Rock to Cena is a sheep is quite an insulting generalisation and until you provide a genuinely cogent argument for "Cena > Rock", people are going to continue to react the way they have.
Posted By: GFX (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Woah, this Brad B guy got seriously flamed, he'll probably be too ashamed to show his face round here again now. I guess thats what you get when you make arrogant, stupid comments like he did.
Posted By: KB (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 11:49 AM
KB: Nice try. I'm still here and not going anywhere.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Atta boy, Brad. You may be way off, but you had an opinion and you stuck to it. I respect that. Again, you may have been way off but I'll never, ever begrudge you your right to complain about things. Keep it coming I say, and NEVER SILENCE THE DEBATE.
And that comment is addressed directly to every single one of you who are so far up Vince McMahon's ass that you seriously think people should never complain about his product.
Posted By: The REAL MP (Registered) on May 27, 2008 at 02:14 PM
Real MP: Thanks, but I still don't think I'm as "off" as you and others have claimed.
I may be excessively harsh toward The Rock, but it's only because it seems hypocritical when you look at some of the criticism most IWCers have towards John Cena.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 02:26 PM
Saying Cena and Rock deserve the same criticism is a little over the top its just the usual nonsense from Cena marks. Cena never has had the charisma that Rock had and you know what thats not a bad thing not everyone in the business can. So comparing the two is just absurd.
Posted By: and thats what is funny (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 05:13 PM
After applauding Brad he changed his story to well I was just pointing out how hypocritical the IWC which is the not the same as trying to convince people Cena is better then the Rock. That point got flamed by everyone on here for the complete absurdity of that comment. In fact I will applaud everyone else for showing how a real argument is done.
Posted By: applaud Brad? (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 05:22 PM
and that: Rock was the 2nd biggest star (always #2 to Austin) of his time which was late-1998 to 2003. Cena has been a Top 5 star for his time (2004-present).
-Both have had criticism for their limited ringwork.
-Both have silly set up moves and questionable finishers.
-Both have struggled to make their secondary submission moves credible (Cena's crossface; Rock's oft-criticized version of the sharpshooter)
-Both have at times struggled to develop a rapport with fans.
-Both emerged from awful/overhyped gimmicks to become superstars.
-Both deal with crowd response that ranges from overwhelmingly positive to mixed to excessively poor
-Both are praised for their strong mic skills and work ethic
-Both have been the go to guy of the promotion
But no. There's no reason to compare the two. It's all "hype from Cena marks" as you so foolishly put it.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 05:23 PM
applaud Brad? - "Cena's popularity and marketability are a myth perpetrated by the Cena marks" is a how an argument is done?
I didn't change my story at all. I was at least being realistic about The Rock. Big difference from the senseless Cena bashers who post in these comment sections!
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 07:26 PM
Im interested in that BradB has not only stated opinions and then backed them up while people who dont agree with him have simply called him names and claimed he doesnt know what he is talking about. Good on Brad for simply stating the facts and not letting narrow minded twats try and make him change his mind because they dont agree with what he says.
Posted By: Guest#8514 (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 08:53 PM
I couldn't give a damn about which guy is better... but I'll tell you this Brad, Umaga is NOT dead weight.
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on May 27, 2008 at 09:10 PM
who is this Rock fellow?
Posted By: Jake Fury (Guest) on May 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM
this is what I love people like guest keep saying hes backed up his points he tried and those points were dismantled by many people on here please go through guest and re-read the posts and see everyone respond. No one has done nothing but respond with Name calling? Uh sure really folks please read the posts again before kissing his rear end.
Posted By: See (Guest) on May 28, 2008 at 03:40 PM
Brad Rock was not always number 2 to Austin and in fact at times passed him go back and watch the invasion angle. Also Brad Rock was carrying the company just fine through most of 2000 when Austin was out. Rock may have been 2 but it was a close number 2. Both of them are today still as popular as they ever have been. By the way remember when Austin threw that fit, beat Debra he lost popularity and Rock came out and did that great promo on the raw following where he buried Austin and the fans were behind him.
Posted By: Oh really (Guest) on May 28, 2008 at 03:44 PM
Man it gets worse with his things they have in common most of rocks problems with the fans came at the beginning of his career and unlike Cena didn't start whimpering like a little child once the crowd turned against him. Brad you don't get it you are changing your story you said Cena was better then the Rock now you're pretty much saying they're the same which no sane person would agree with. The fan reaction to Cena the last 3 years have been consistently bad. Rock had the fans turn on him because of his heel motives and because he left for hollywood but turned that into an awesome heel run in 03 which is covered on disc 3. Watch WM 22 to see how Cena handles the crowd hatred. Rock unlike Cena could survive being a heel like you said in fact something that destroyed your point as a heel Rock could still be a top performer and one the fans would still love. When he was a heel in 99 he still had many fans because of his style. Cena has the wrong kind of heat right not the boo Rock you're evil heat but the "Darn it Cena again!!" thats not the same thing. Rocks sharpshooter may not be pretty is done in a more legit way then Cenas STFU.
Posted By: oh boy (Guest) on May 28, 2008 at 08:18 PM
Cena marks try to convince people then when people think WWE they think Cena no in fact I don't know many that do in fact most think of HHH, UT, and HBK. No mainstream fans know or care about Cena. In fact most know the three previously mentioned.
You and every other Cena mark live in a fantasy that Cena was as big a draw as guys such as Hogan, Austin or Rock which is complete myth. Cenas high WM buy rates were more the result of Trump and Mayweather being there then anything to do with Cena.
Posted By: It is a myth (Guest) on May 28, 2008 at 08:21 PM
Wait JJ, let's back track, did you say Cena did not carry Umaga to a good match? I guess you're right, Rumble 07 LMS match was GREAT, not good. Cena sold Umaga like the monster he was supposed to be before idiot wrestlers began no selling him. I am a huge Rock fan but Cena is the far superior wrestler and when it's said and done will have more great promos than the Rock. Also, I'll take The Marine over any of the crap the Rock puts in the theaters. Brad has brought up some fantastic points that still haven't been disputed.
Posted By: Bernie (Guest) on June 11, 2008 at 11:15 PM
One Bernie, Cena-Umaga was not great at RR 07 it was a solid overrated match. Cena a much better wrestler then Rock? uh moving on. Thats already been disproven.
Posted By: LMAO at Bernie (Guest) on June 16, 2008 at 09:58 PM
Cena does better promos then Rock? Dude you're smoking something if you really believe that. Watch the HOF ceremony thats how to do a promo. Cena's promos are so average its a joke.
Posted By: oh and (Guest) on June 16, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Oh and I love the ones who say none of his Brads have been disputed. Sorry folks kissing ass doesn't work. He said Cena better wrestler WRONG everyone has agreed at worst same amount of moves no one better.
2. Rock is not original Cena is uhhhhhhhh how many times has this been disproven. Lets see Cena white rapper with a catch line created by other people.
Folks really look at the ratings its a no contest you all are the only ones who think Cena is in Rocks class.
Posted By: sorry Bernie (Guest) on June 16, 2008 at 10:06 PM
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